Could be bad news for White’s fans

[Tahtsadatsago]

Didn’t V3i lose depth when multifreq was selected?

As I recall the V3i manual did state that there might be circumstances where a single frequency would be deeper than multi-frequency.

In my soil (fairly mild for the most part) I did not see a noticeable difference in depth.

My understanding is that users with more mineralized soil could experience a loss of depth, but it seems that the issue was more about the ground balancing system (used in the V3i) than it was multi-frequency.

Somewhere (I don't recall where) there was a post by Carl Moreland (the guy behind the V3i) that went into detail about the ground balancing issues (V3i). With my soil conditions it was never a problem. For others it was a big problem.

 

[jmaryt]

Tn, your partially correct,let me explain what I mean. First, I like the at pro,f75,and Minelab nox.. The nox is better at unmasking than the f75 and the at pro,no question...The Visual ID is better on the at pro and F75 than the equinox...
Now, what you were saying about Garrett taking a hit on sales because of the equinox,,I highly doubt that’s the case.. Sure, most seasoned and novice people in this hobbie will take the Equinox over the at pro..If that’s what your referring to then I believe your correct.. But in a overall buyers situation I doubt that’s accurate..There is 10 + years of videos,testimonials and user gossip on the web about the at pro that the Equinox Is gonna take a long time to even come close to.. When people google best detector, or whatever the Garrett At pro comes up exclusively. Minelab equinox doesn’t even show up...Maybe a few more years down the road it will but for today it don’t, and that’s where Garrett shines,on the web. And that’s what the people see.

woody the people "need" to examine the "facts" more closely before making the buying decision, in spite of one particular detector getting a lot of attention on the internet."performance IS everything, and for serious detectorists,minelab is leading the way!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

As I recall the V3i manual did state that there might be circumstances where a single frequency would be deeper than multi-frequency.

In my soil (fairly mild for the most part) I did not see a noticeable difference in depth.

My understanding is that users with more mineralized soil could experience a loss of depth, but it seems that the issue was more about the ground balancing system (used in the V3i) than it was multi-frequency.

Somewhere (I don't recall where) there was a post by Carl Moreland (the guy behind the V3i) that went into detail about the ground balancing issues (V3i). With my soil conditions it was never a problem. For others it was a big problem.

I actually had stated GB system was flawed. And. Mr Moreland acknowledged. I was only a user of the detector. Not on the inside at all. This was on Dankowski site. Few years ago.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Here’s link where Mr Moreland commented on V3i overall after the fact and mentions flawed GB system. About a 4 year old post. You’ll see my comments too.

https://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,120197,120431#msg-120431

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Yeah designing GB system on a SMF probably harder than some think. I suspect it can give engineers fits. Hard for me to get my head around. Since different freqs are employed.

 

[Tahtsadatsago]

Here’s link where Mr Moreland commented on V3i overall after the fact and mentions flawed GB system. About a 4 year old post. You’ll see my comments too.

https://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,120197,120431#msg-120431

Thanks for posting that.

Mr. Moreland's comments strongly suggest that building on the V3i platform isn't a viable option. So it seems that Garrett would have to start from scratch if a improved V3i (the V4?) is something they wish to bring to market (as Whites apparently had planned at one time).

 

[Martin_V3i]

Someone at Whites in power, was stubborn to reality and changes. It was said by users thet the processing speed needed quicker, more horsepower, and Whites alway stated that the V3i had plenty of power. You could not run the detecting mode and use the polar display, it was just too slow and lagged, so "real-time" analysis using polar was really slow. Now, the Minelab Etrac and Explorer, and now the Equinox, does a bang up job in processing in all of their analysis modes. I personally didn't have that much trouble with ground balance. I never ran auto, but used locked and did manual ground balances.

I took my V3i out to my 9" buried silver quarter, using a Detech 8x6 coil, and it hits it like a champ, with headroom to spare even with a lifted coil. That is using 3-F too.

I still enjoy the V3i whenever I blow off the dust and test it. It simply gets disappointing in processing speed though. That is my take on it anyway. Depth wasn't ever a complaint with me. I was disappointed in the Whites V-rated coils. Detech became my go to coils, the 8x6, and the 10x12. The Ultimate 13 was not impressive though. I don't know what to make of the V-rated requirement, when Detech designed the 8x6 which is giving me more that 9 inches on my buried silver Washington, with room to spare.

It is a shame that Whites didn't keep the V4 team, and make changes. It really is a beautiful machine, and I loved it for many years.

 

[Tahtsadatsago]

Someone at Whites in power, was stubborn to reality and changes. It was said by users thet the processing speed needed quicker, more horsepower, and Whites alway stated that the V3i had plenty of power. You could not run the detecting mode and use the polar display, it was just too slow and lagged. Now, the Minelab Etrac and Explorer, and now the Equinox, does a bang up job in processing in all of their analysis modes. I personally didn't have that much trouble with ground balance. I never ran auto, but used locked and did manual ground balances.

I took my V3i out to my 9" buried silver quarter, using a Detech 8x6 coil, and it hits it like a champ, with headroom to spare even with a lifted coil. That is using 3-F too.

I still enjoy the V3i whenever I blow off the dust and test it. It simply gets disappointing in processing speed though. That is my take on it anyway. Depth wasn't ever a complaint with me. I was disappointed in the Whites V-rated coils. Detech became my go to coils, the 8x6, and the 10x12. The Ultimate 13 was not impressive though. I don't know what to make of the V-rated requirement, when Detech designed the 8x6 which is giving me more that 9 inches on my buried silver Washington, with room to spare.

It is a shame that Whites didn't keep the V4 team, and make changes. It really is a beautiful machine, and I loved it for many years.

Bam!!

Nailed it.

I loved my Whites machines, but it does seem as though Whites management couldn't look beyond yesterday.

 

[The Lama]

I just got to chime in as a beach guy whites has some very good pi machines you could argue possibly the best.I also feel as far as the price thing Garrett has done a great job of providing value for money people need to remember they are produced in Texas where they pay their employees many times what minelab pays their employees in Malayasia or makro pays their employees in Turkey

 

[tnsharpshooter]

White’s didn’t even have to think all on their own as far as the future goes. They had a teacher of sorts (Xp) back in 2009 when Deus hit the streets.
https://www.xpmetaldetectorsamericas.com/xp-history

Not to mention Minelab had couple models that could be plugged to PC. Again another warning.

When Nokta Makro got in the game of updatable detectors it was already too late for White’s.

All you have to do is pay attention. As far as the whole detector industry goes. Little nuggets out there.

Blindfolds must have been on, you know where.
Based on Mr Moreland comments above. They W_ _ _ _ _ were doomed for failure.
To think they didn’t do a waterproof VLF AT series single freq detector back when is shocking. There is no good answer.
Notice what Carl said about the metal box for detector brain. Again shocking, plastic was in then and metal was on its way out.
Why would you want all your models looking the same anyways?
Cars manufacturers got away from metal went plastic.
They didn’t envision how much affect Internet was going to have. Those treasure magazines were going to be gone.
Newer generation not afraid of internet.
Older generation who was is either dead, or too old to detect for the most part.
No playing with carbon fiber, lithium batteries, etc,
Fast paced world. You snooze you lose.

 

[KOB]

I just got to chime in as a beach guy whites has some very good pi machines you could argue possibly the best.I also feel as far as the price thing Garrett has done a great job of providing value for money people need to remember they are produced in Texas where they pay their employees many times what minelab pays their employees in Malayasia or makro pays their employees in Turkey

^×2. Though the Nox 800 is a great machine , my daily driver is still a Whites PI. And there's a reason for that. Garrett who ?

 

[longbow62]

I'm getting a little off topic here, but every detector company needs to start conveying more info than a tone and number. A tone and number is pretty primitive when you think about it compared to what a computer can do graphically. Why can't you run multi programs at once and instantly see the info? Why can't in one sweep the screen in color show you every target the coil passed over and how far apart they were? Detector companies need to be hiring A.I. people to help detectors figure out multiple targets like iron masking a coin. In my opinion there is no super high tech detector. It seems to me they should be telling us much more than they do. That includes Minelabs.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I'm getting a little off topic here, but every detector company needs to start conveying more info than a tone and number. A tone and number is pretty primitive when you think about it compared to what a computer can do graphically. Why can't you run multi programs at once and instantly see the info? Why can't in one sweep the screen in color show you every target the coil passed over and how far apart they were? Detector companies need to be hiring A.I. people to help detectors figure out multiple targets like iron masking a coin. In my opinion there is no super high tech detector. It seems to me they should be telling us much more than they do. That includes Minelabs.

I agree.

 

[diggindaboot]

regardless of your "rant" the bottom line is Garrett "'had" to sign a nondisclosure agreement with whites to make ''anything" happen! then they obviously could examine all the ip they wanted to, and this,"of course" would be necessary to cut a deal.you sound like a person who lets someone else do your f**king for you.
I'm just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Who said they didn't sign an NDA ? Your op was dumb and shot down. Now you're bitter. BAWAHAAAA. You still aren't smarter than Garrett. You didn't and don't have an F'ing clue what their plan is.

" IF they 'allowed" that, then they probably would have passed,
and no offer would have been made."

How do you know ? Were you at the meeting ? The answer to both of those is still, no. You weren't the first to mention NDA. However, it's the only train you can ride now.

 

[Cherry Picker]

The manufacturer that comes out with the first detector that can reliably discriminate between aluminum & gold will rule the market.

I thought multi-frequency might make it possible, but so far, nope.

 

[diggindaboot]

The manufacturer that comes out with the first detector that can reliably discriminate between aluminum & gold will rule the market.

I thought multi-frequency might make it possible, but so far, nope.

I could be wrong but I think for that to happen, imaging would have to be the next frontier.

 

[jmaryt]

Bam!!

Nailed it.

I loved my Whites machines, but it does seem as though Whites management couldn't look beyond yesterday.

whitey played the game similar to Tesoro content to rest on laurels, and "'coast"
apparently, they also had difficulty retaining engineers.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

 

[jmaryt]

Who said they didn't sign an NDA ? Your op was dumb and shot down. Now you're bitter. BAWAHAAAA. You still aren't smarter than Garrett. You didn't and don't have an F'ing clue what their plan is.

" IF they 'allowed" that, then they probably would have passed,
and no offer would have been made."

How do you know ? Were you at the meeting ? The answer to both of those is still, no. You weren't the first to mention NDA. However, it's the only train you can ride now.

I was at the meeting! I was a"fly" on the wall, and whispered in Kenny white's ear
let it go!..let it go! apparently he listened! I said all of this 'was" possible! I never said it was fact, but it "can" be assumed an nda was signed to protect both parties. next time use a ''condum!"..just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

 

[diggindaboot]

I was at the meeting! I was a"fly" on the wall, and whispered in Kenny white's ear
let it go!..let it go! apparently he listened! I said all of this 'was" possible! I never said it was fact, but it "can" be assumed an nda was signed to protect both parties. next time use a ''condum!"..just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Weak. NDA caboose is your rightful place.

 

[Rudy]

The manufacturer that comes out with the first detector that can reliably discriminate between aluminum & gold will rule the market.

I thought multi-frequency might make it possible, but so far, nope.

As long as the technology uses the magnetic field set up by eddy currents and the phase angle between the eddy current field and the transmit field, it will be impossible to 100% distinguish between aluminum and gold.