You know there is also a display with that audio!

[robby4570]

and the nail has not been buried in the ground long enough to develop the halo which is untimely going to make the difference.

Every time I see one of those videos I see "watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat" LOL.

There it is!

I and the other "old timers" have all heard of the HALO EFFECT but the new guys, either have never heard of (most of them) or don't believe in it...

Bonus points if you recognize the guy in the video...

​

 

[robby4570]

Soil effects have NOTHING to do with air tests that expose flaws or issues. For example, if a detector can't properly ID a coin beside a piece of trash in the air, then it's not going to properly ID that coin in the ground. It will ID the coin even worse in the ground, so "the ground" doesn't matter for this kind of air test!

 

[Diga]

Regarding VDI's, yes, they DO have a place in detecting, just not the TOP place...

Not the "TOP" place for YOU, but it's the top for many others.

Regarding the 3030:

The 2 most important characteristics for unmasking coins in nonferrous trash, is a very fast recovery speed, and very low frequencies. The Nox and Legend are much faster than the 3030, and can use very low weighted SMF. I don't know the frequency weighting of the 3030, but given BBS and FBS, I doubt it has a dedicated "below 7 khz" SMF mode. Plus, BBS and FBS have a very slow recovery rate.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Soil effects have NOTHING to do with air tests that expose flaws or issues. For example, if a detector can't properly ID a coin beside a piece of trash in the air, then it's not going to properly ID that coin in the ground. It will ID the coin even worse in the ground, so "the ground" doesn't matter for this kind of air test!

Yes, but if comparing it to another detector, that other detector may fail to properly ID also when dealing with ground minerals. You don't know until you try it. There is plenty of operativity to do the same test in the wild and in the ground, so why not test it like that instead of a staged test? The same detector that IDs poorly in the air may ID better than others in the ground that may ID just fine when not dealing with the ground.

Like the E-Trac. Anyone that is proficient with it knows it is a scrubber. You don't swing it 3" above the ground for optimal performance. It air tests poorly. If you went by the air tests you'd be sadly misled.

 

[Diga]

Obviously, my point is going WAY over your head.

 

[Diga]

Yes, but if comparing it to another detector, that other detector may fail to properly ID also when dealing with ground minerals.]

Again....that isn't the point of that kind of air test.

The point of that kind of air test is to show what a detector can't do. That's why in this type of air test, ground effects are irrelevant, because what the detector does poorly at in the air, will be even worse in the ground. So the ground doesn't matter.

 

[robby4570]

Not the "TOP" place for YOU, but it's the top for many others.

Regarding the 3030:

The 2 most important characteristics for unmasking coins in nonferrous trash, is a very fast recovery speed, and very low frequencies. The Nox and Legend are much faster than the 3030, and can use very low weighted SMF. I don't know the frequency weighting of the 3030, but given BBS and FBS, I doubt it has a dedicated "below 7 khz" SMF mode. Plus, BBS and FBS have a very slow recovery rate.

Ooooh you're pretty good with them "buzzwords"

​

and I didn't say it wasn't possible, but I still want to SEE it proven out, don't forget, the guy driving the machine brings a lot into the equation too.

And the guys who live and die by the VDI, good on'em! That much more for me re: me earlier recounting...

 

[Cherry Picker]

Again....that isn't the point of that kind of air test.

The point of that kind of air test is to show what a detector can't do. That's why in this type of air test, ground effects are irrelevant, because what the detector does poorly at in the air, will be even worse in the ground. So the ground doesn't matter.

And no you're wrong. I just gave you an example where that doesn't fly. Anybody that knows the E-Trac/CTX, knows it air tests poorly but kicks serious butt in the ground. So yes, the ground is relevant. And it sees much deeper in the ground than in the air. I don't think I'm the one missing the point LOL.

And that video of the guy comparing the E-Trac to the Manticore on a 10" dime. Anyone who knows the FBS knows you isolate the target to get a repeatable tone. I'm sure he probably knew this as well, but all part of being able to manipulate a staged test. He was swinging a good 3'-4' to try and get a repeatable tone where the Manticore could do that because of a much faster processor. He did finally lower the coil to the ground and started getting a more repeatable tone, and if he would have just shortened the swing to a 4" just over the target, I feel it would have repeated just as well as the Manticore did.

 

[Diga]

Ooooh you're pretty good with them "buzzwords"

I'm sorry that any word with over 2 syllables confuses and scares you. You might want to work on that, along with your reading compression problem.

 

[robby4570]

I'm sorry that any word with over 2 syllables confuses and scares you. You might want to work on that, along with your reading compression problem.

reading compression??? Don't you mean COMPREHENSION?
I'm sorry was that above you???

 

[Diga]

And no you're wrong. I just gave you an example where that doesn't fly. Anybody that knows the E-Trac/CTX, knows it air tests poorly but kicks serious butt in the ground. So yes, the ground is relevant. And it sees much deeper in the ground than in the air. I don't think I'm the one missing the point LOL.

And that video of the guy comparing the E-Trac to the Manticore on a 10" dime. Anyone who knows the FBS knows you isolate the target to get a repeatable tone. I'm sure he probably knew this as well, but all part of being able to manipulate a staged test. He was swinging a good 3'-4' to try and get a repeatable tone where the Manticore could do that because of a much faster processor. He did finally lower the coil to the ground and started getting a more repeatable tone, and if he would have just shortened the swing to a 4" just over the target, I feel it would have repeated just as well as the Manticore did.

I don't know what video you're referring to.

Also, you said, "And it sees much deeper in the ground than in the air". Well, my point is about unmasking and flaws, not depth. Are you referring to the alleged halo effect? Also, how long have you had your CTX and Etrac for? Because in a post from 12/16/17, someone said that they have never found a coin deeper than their machines will air test, and you replied by saying "+1 My results as well".

 

[Cherry Picker]

I don't know what video you're referring to.

Also, you said, "And it sees much deeper in the ground than in the air". Well, my point is about unmasking and flaws, not depth. Are you referring to the alleged halo effect? Also, how long have you had your CTX and Etrac for? Because in a post from 12/16/17, someone said that they have never found a coin deeper than my machines will air test, and you replied by saying "+1 My results as well".

I used to change detectors about as often as I change underwear LOL. I found a post back to 2010where I said I "HAD" an E-Trac & SE Pro. That must have been a time when I didn't have the E-Trac. FBS is the only technology I have used where it actually hits as deep in the ground as in air tests and more.

Over the years I have bought and sold many detectors and to this day I don't have any I've owned for more than 8 months. The E-Trac I own today was given to me at Christmas by my hunting buddy. He bought a better-conditioned one and gave me his old one. I have been using the E-Trac off & on for many years. If you look at some of my Youtube videos you'll see back at least 13 years comparing the Omega 8000 vs E-Trac, in the wild, and the F75 vs the E-Trac in the wild. I don't claim to be an E-Trac expert, but I've put in some serious time, and I can say that to judge the performance of FBS via air test, for depth, is going to mislead you badly.

 

[Diga]

I used to change detectors about as often as I change underwear LOL. I found a post back to 2010where I said I "HAD" an E-Trac & SE Pro. That must have been a time when I didn't have the E-Trac. FBS is the only technology I have used where it actually hits as deep in the ground as in air tests and more.

I didn't want to get off topic, because my points don't have anything to do with depth or ground conditions, but here we are

So with your FBS detector, you can air test a coin, and with the same settings, the FBS detector will detect that same coin as deep or deeper than in the air? Can you prove that?

 

[Cherry Picker]

I didn't want to get off topic, because my points don't have anything to do with depth or ground conditions, but here we are

So with your FBS detector, you can air test a coin, and with the same settings, the FBS detector will detect that same coin as deep or deeper than in the air? Can you prove that?

I have proven it may times. I'm sure there are plenty of FBS users who also feel you cannot judge the depth ability of FBS with an air test.

If you mean can I stage a depth test to show it, yes I could, but it would be worthless. I don't do depth air tests anymore.


I would like to see that post if you can. I just would like to see it in context with the subject. I quit chasing the best of the best about 5 years ago. The last one was probably the Equinox 800. After that, I gave up trying to find one with the raw depth and cherry-picking ability of the FBS system.

 

[robby4570]

I didn't want to get off topic, because my points don't have anything to do with depth or ground conditions, but here we are

So with your FBS detector, you can air test a coin, and with the same settings, the FBS detector will detect that same coin as deep or deeper than in the air? Can you prove that?

 

[KOB]

Must be Sunday. Cause you guys are talkn' all liquored up !

 

[robby4570]

I didn't want to get off topic, because my points don't have anything to do with depth or ground conditions, but here we are

So with your FBS detector, you can air test a coin, and with the same settings, the FBS detector will detect that same coin as deep or deeper than in the air? Can you prove that?

Must be Sunday. Cause you guys are talkn' all liquored up !

I WISH!

 

[maxxkatt]

I prefer both. I used nothing but the tone for many years. Back then the display was little more than a power meter. It had a needle that went up to show the power returned. Then TID started but still wasn't much so the sound was still king. In the late 80s early 90s all that changed. Far more reliable information was being displayed. It was the big selling point back then.

Now technology has the ability to display the same information that the audio circuit gets. In the case of say the E-Trac/CTX with dual VDI, 1 for ferrous & 1 for conductive ID, you can actually get more. You can only hear 1 tone at a time. This new 2D display on the Manticore looks promising, but no one is spending any time in their videos showing what it can, or can't do.

Detector MFGs are starving to find new technology but ignoring the obvious. VLF depth is maxed, now spend some time making a more accurate and informative VDI. Minelab has been the only ones working on it. The E-Trac was a nice start with dual VDIs, then the CTX took it to the next level with Target Trace. Now the Manticore looks to have the next generation in VDI. Many other MFGs have actually lost ground in the VDI technology in my opinion. Compressing the target segments. WTH were they thinking?

I used the Target Trace on the CTX a lot and loved the extra info. Kind of like how on a tone you might hear the tone start or end with an iron grunt. That is as close to the dual VDI you can get from the E-Trac or CTX, and possibly Manticore if someone would just take a little time and show it.

Now, you new Manticore owners, get out to those hard-pounded hot sites, and let's see what it can, or can't, do.

Yeah, loved the CTX target trace screens. Plenty of info there that is for sure. Plus the CO-FE screen told you a lot also about what was below your coil. Just wished the CTX weighed 1.2 lbs.

Now I have the XP2 and the XY display is nowhere close to the info you get on the CTX screens. So I really don't use it much at all. When hunting. I mostly use the audio to hunt and when I get a desirable audio signal, I consult the TID and depth.

Rattleheads silver slayer setup is great for coins. Pretty much increases your odds that what has been signaled is a coin unless it is something that will fake you out like a stainless steal screw.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Yeah, loved the CTX target trace screens. Plenty of info there that is for sure. Plus the CO-FE screen told you a lot also about what was below your coil. Just wished the CTX weighed 1.2 lbs.

Now I have the XP2 and the XY display is nowhere close to the info you get on the CTX screens. So I really don't use it much at all. When hunting. I mostly use the audio to hunt and when I get a desirable audio signal, I consult the TID and depth.

Rattleheads silver slayer setup is great for coins. Pretty much increases your odds that what has been signaled is a coin unless it is something that will fake you out like a stainless steal screw.

I'm still an audio first hunter, but I rely a lot more on the VDI now than I did just a few years ago.

I hear the tone first, and unless I'm in a tot lot, the tone tells me if I'm going to look at the VDI.

There just seems to be so much room for improvement on VDI being ignored. As I said before it almost seems some manufacturers have gone backward in VDI technology. Minelab seems to be the only one moving forward. Target Trace was an amazing advancement in VDI technology. And now the Manticore seems to have taken a step further.

Yeah, a 1.5 lb CTX would be killer.

 

[Cherry Picker]

I don't know what video you're referring to.

Also, you said, "And it sees much deeper in the ground than in the air". Well, my point is about unmasking and flaws, not depth. Are you referring to the alleged halo effect? Also, how long have you had your CTX and Etrac for? Because in a post from 12/16/17, someone said that they have never found a coin deeper than their machines will air test, and you replied by saying "+1 My results as well".

Ah, now lets put that response into context and finish the statement.

I will say this it might happen every now and then but ive never found a coin deeper than my machines will air test either with the at pro or deus...

And that is true with the AT Pro & Deus.

Oh, and a quote from an Admin at another detecting forum.

BBS and FBS tests better in the ground than in the air, I have yet to find a coin floating I the air too. I have a test garden with different coins buried at different depths. A real life scenario with undisturbed soil is always better test than air tests...