Nexus MP SF detector putting SMF to shame on depth.

[jmaclen]

Deus 1 had a Non-Motion mode which was basically constant pinpoint mode. Gary Blackwell did an excellent video on how he used that mode to locate ancient habitation areas.

I wish Calabash had at least put the Manticore in its prospecting audio theme in his Nexus head to head. Wishing he would have tried the Manticore’s pinpoint mode would have been expecting too much.

 

[Diga]

I wish Calabash had at least put the Manticore in its prospecting audio theme in his Nexus head to head. Wishing he would have tried the Manticore’s pinpoint mode would have been expecting too much.

Why do you think that would have been expecting too much? He seems open to trying things that others suggest.

My guess, is that he would be happy to find out that the Nexus is using something similar to a pinpoint mode, and to try out the Manticore on those targets in its prospecting mode, and even pinpoint mode.

 

[jmaclen]

Why do you think that would have been expecting too much? He seems open to trying things that others suggest.

My guess, is that he would be happy to find out that the Nexus is using something similar to a pinpoint mode, and to try out the Manticore on those targets in its prospecting mode, and even pinpoint mode.

Calabash is not a VLF gold prospector or ancient European site hoard hunter so that kind of out of his comfort zone experience and thinking is foreign too him. I wouldn't expect him to know this stuff.

I know a lot of very experienced detectorists that just pinpoint off the tip of the coil and rarely if ever use the pinpoint mode on their detector.

Feel free to tell him yourself.

 

[markinmichigan]

I know a lot of very experienced detectorists that just pinpoint off the tip of the coil and rarely if ever use the pinpoint mode on their detector.

That's me and I am not very experienced. Wiggle forward and back, bend over and retrieve.

Mark in Michigan

 

[jmaclen]

That's me and I am not very experienced. Wiggle forward and back, bend over and retrieve.

Mark in Michigan

That method works really well for coin sized surface to mid depth stuff. For almost edge of detection targets, the detector’s pinpoint mode can really help a lot. It also helps for sizing targets before digging like beer cans, sprinkler heads and big iron.

 

[Cherry Picker]

When I wrote post #50, I did keep in mind that some detectors do have a pinpoint mode that can remain on without holding in the button. I was more referring as to why pinpoint point isn't normally known as an alternate search mode. Do any manuals even state that? Then again, the Nexus employs only something "similar" to pinpoint mode. Correct?

I really would like to know how the Nexus achieves such extreme depth. Can something as simple as a type of pinpoint point explain it? That seems unlikely to me. I think that extreme depth has more to do with an extremely low fixed recovery speed.

I've always thought that "all-metal" mode was the same as pinpoint. Seems to me that it used to be if you were in all-metal mode motion was not needed. I do agree, there should be a pinpoint type program. True all-metal?

 

[Diga]

I've always thought that "all-metal" mode was the same as pinpoint. Seems to me that it used to be if you were in all-metal mode motion was not needed. I do agree, there should be a pinpoint type program. True all-metal?

"All metal" to me, means motion with no discrimination. Pinpoint means no discrimination, no motion. Is it that "no motion" aspect that allows pinpoint mode to hit hard on targets that regular modes can barely hit?

 

[maxxkatt]

Impressive for open fields. still I would hate to be digging 22 inch deep holes only to find a piece of bent aluminum piece of can slaw. I guess over in the UK that is not as much as a problem as in the US.

 

[AccurateCalls]

Impressive for open fields. still I would hate to be digging 22 inch deep holes only to find a piece of bent aluminum piece of can slaw. I guess over in the UK that is not as much as a problem as in the US.

Yeah, going after super deep items without a target ID like the Nexus sounds like a lot of work. If that were the case, I'd rather go with a PI detector, just as deep, but would also work on the beach, in difficult ground, etc. where the Nexus simply cannot function. Personally, I am waiting for the Nokta Relic PI to fill this very niche slot in my detector lineup.

Honestly, there is just as much aluminum and can slaw here in Europe as there is in the US, even in locations where you might find super deep, larger interesting objects.

 

[The Lama]

That method works really well for coin sized surface to mid depth stuff. For almost edge of detection targets, the detector’s pinpoint mode can really help a lot. It also helps for sizing targets before digging like beer cans, sprinkler heads and big iron.

Do you mean because pinpoint mode is the only true all metal mode on many detectors?

 

[jmaclen]

Do you mean because pinpoint mode is the only true all metal mode on many detectors?

Yes, Pinpoint mode is usually as unfiltered as it gets on most VLF detectors. Some people don't like the VCO siren like audio of Pinpoint mode but it is effective if a user gets accustomed to what it can and can't do.

Steve Herschbach over on Detector Prospector gave a really good explanation for non-motion pinpoint mode, threshold based motion all metal mode and normal discrimination modes on most modern VLF detectors in these sentences:

"On many VLF detectors a true, raw, unfiltered response can be seen via some pinpoint modes. All metal non-motion response."

"Next would be a motion based "first derivative" all metal mode, that basically adds motion filtering to the raw pinpoint signal in an attempt to keep an even threshold while in motion. This mode has no discrimination capability at all and just signals targets. This is the classic "true" all metal mode used on early induction balance prospecting detectors."

"Next would be "second derivative" filtering that is the classic motion based discrimination we see on most detectors today."

That gives a pretty good explanation of why a hybrid pinpoint mode based detector like the Nexus MP series can have seemingly extraordinary depth compared to a heavily filtered detector like the Manticore when it is used in one of its multi frequency programs with complex audio setup, target ID, 2D display, iron filtering, speed filtering and ground handling employed. Manticore in Pinpoint mode or in the closest thing it has to a first derivative program like its prospecting mode set to 20 kHz single frequency might be able to somewhat compete with the Nexus MP series.

 

[Surf Master]

Funny , I herd the hit with both Tupperware 2- pieces stacked- with the Manticore, I guess being a spokesman with a free machine , I see nothing but , he's at it again , thought he retired , the Fake test gardening/ cheating business , and thought the forum banded all video's on here from White Coat , along with posting his video's by member's , administration , fact check this , am I right or wrong ? ( PS I have no issues with any MEMBER posting a new metal detector & performance, of one machine , however fake / tricks of different manufacturer's comparing machine against machine I thought was prohibited . ( In my opinion air testing is VOID , I saw the Manticore sensitivity at 22 , not maxed out , He said the Nexus wasn't maxed out but were- was it set at , he showed a quick shot of the knobs , but that was it , so many things- one individual can do in order to push sales- of a machine , looks like this United Kingdom manufacturer copied Tesoro detector's with the knobs Diga I have some Ocean Front property in AZ, loaded with Gold , are you interested

 

[OBN]

Earl I can't believe you called me on this one. This machine has been out for a few years now, if it ain't caught on by now then I would say its never will. Has anyone here dug a target at 22 inches? At the beach, 18 is a task, I can't imagine carrying a post hole digger/full size shovel around for no way those little diggers everyone uses can dig that deep efficiently. Try it...

Yeah, going after super deep items without a target ID like the Nexus sounds like a lot of work. If that were the case, I'd rather go with a PI detector, just as deep, but would also work on the beach, in difficult ground, etc. where the Nexus simply cannot function. Personally, I am waiting for the Nokta Relic PI to fill this very niche slot in my detector lineup.

Honestly, there is just as much aluminum and can slaw here in Europe as there is in the US, even in locations where you might find super deep, larger interesting objects.

I totally agree.

 

[Surf Master]

Joe , 19 inches in the dirt & 3 years old , ripping up a Manticore , everybody on the forum would have one , it's BS & and a VLF that beats out pi's LOL Looks like the V2 has been around , V3 2024 version ? , UK only , haven't seen them for sale in the US - I'll research some more , buddy Diga how old is that White Coat video? And how long has the MP- V3 been out ? I will give these guy's a pass , don't know squat about the UK detector's , I guess on a half Dollar , it could be posable. PS OBN WOW ( Earl I can't believe you called me on this one. ) Glad to get you off the couch buddy , at least I got your blood pumping

 

[Diga]

Funny , I herd the hit with both Tupperware 2- pieces stacked- with the Manticore, I guess being a spokesman with a free machine , I see nothing but , he's at it again , thought he retired , the Fake test gardening/ cheating business , and thought the forum banded all video's on here from White Coat , along with posting his video's by member's , administration , fact check this , am I right or wrong ? ( PS I have no issues with any MEMBER posting a new metal detector & performance, of one machine , however fake / tricks of different manufacturer's comparing machine against machine I thought was prohibited . ( In my opinion air testing is VOID , I saw the Manticore sensitivity at 22 , not maxed out , He said the Nexus wasn't maxed out but were- was it set at , he showed a quick shot of the knobs , but that was it , so many things- one individual can do in order to push sales- of a machine , looks like this United Kingdom manufacturer copied Tesoro detector's with the knobs Diga I have some Ocean Front property in AZ, loaded with Gold , are you interested

Earl,

Start your posts with a seizure warning!

Calabash bought his Nexus and Manticore.

He has the Manticore's gain at 22, because that's about the maximum he can run it at without it being chatty and unstable. Besides, even if he went from 24 to max, that's only going to add a very small amount of depth.

I don't know what you mean by "fake" and "BS". The video clearly shows that the Nexus is hitting that half 8" to 10" deeper than the Manticore. Calabash was just as surprised as most everyone else.

The Nexus is not designed for salt beahces, and doesn't work well in salt.

I don't know why some think good targets can't get that deep. In my area, I dig freakin clad up to about 12" with my SMF. The old silver and copper coins in my area, are mostly below the depth of what modern SMF detectors can hit.

It seems to me (and just about everyone else) that the Nexus a very niche detector. Perhaps for ancient pasture / crop land that is found across the pond, in which coins and relics that are thousands of years old, can easily be at that extreme depth.

 

[Diga]

Yeah, going after super deep items without a target ID like the Nexus sounds like a lot of work. If that were the case, I'd rather go with a PI detector, just as deep, but would also work on the beach, in difficult ground, etc. where the Nexus simply cannot function. Personally, I am waiting for the Nokta Relic PI to fill this very niche slot in my detector lineup.

According to the developer, the detectors' discrimination works well throughout its depth range. So, disc out everything below copper / silver? Although, I wonder if such a high disc on that type of detector will cause it to lose its major depth advantage. Then again, for the type of sites I mentioned in post #55, all the hunter would need is iron discriminated out...and maybe not even that.

If I get another detector, it will most likely be a PI. I have particular sites in which I know a lot of gold jewellery is deeper than what SMF can hit. As such, I've got my eye on the Axiom and one of the upcoming Nokta PIs. Winter just set in for me, so I've got a few months to mull it over. A couple of months ago, Dilek said Nokta engineers were planning to visit a few countries to test their PIs, so I'm hoping that's a good sign that they'll be released in a few more months.

 

[Diga]

Yes, Pinpoint mode is usually as unfiltered as it gets on most VLF detectors. Some people don't like the VCO siren like audio of Pinpoint mode but it is effective if a user gets accustomed to what it can and can't do.

Steve Herschbach over on Detector Prospector gave a really good explanation for non-motion pinpoint mode, threshold based motion all metal mode and normal discrimination modes on most modern VLF detectors in these sentences:

"On many VLF detectors a true, raw, unfiltered response can be seen via some pinpoint modes. All metal non-motion response."

"Next would be a motion based "first derivative" all metal mode, that basically adds motion filtering to the raw pinpoint signal in an attempt to keep an even threshold while in motion. This mode has no discrimination capability at all and just signals targets. This is the classic "true" all metal mode used on early induction balance prospecting detectors."

"Next would be "second derivative" filtering that is the classic motion based discrimination we see on most detectors today."

That gives a pretty good explanation of why a hybrid pinpoint mode based detector like the Nexus MP series can have seemingly extraordinary depth compared to a heavily filtered detector like the Manticore when it is used in one of its multi frequency programs with complex audio setup, target ID, 2D display, iron filtering, speed filtering and ground handling employed. Manticore in Pinpoint mode or in the closest thing it has to a first derivative program like its prospecting mode set to 20 kHz single frequency might be able to somewhat compete with the Nexus MP series.

Is the Nexus "pinpoint based"? Pinpoint to me, means motion, no discrimination, and short blips on small targets. The Nexus has the opposite of all of that.

I'm not buying the notion that filtering on a digital detector will decrease depth. For example, an SMF detector can be disced to only hit on copper and silver, which is a massive amount filtering, yet little if any depth loss occurs when doing so. Granted, no motion pinpoint, can definitely turn an iffy hit to a solid hit, but what is the actual depth gain? Maybe an extra 1" or 2" of no disc / ID depth? As such, even if the Manticore was using 20 Khz or pinpoint mode, I seriously doubt that's going to add an additional 8" to 10" of depth that would be needed to match the depth of the Nexus.

I'm still of the idea that the Nexus's extreme depth has little to do with analog, digital, frequencies, motion, or no motion. Rather, I think it's mainly a result of an abnormally low recovery speed. In fact, after I and someone else mentioned such, Georgi said that the Nexus has to have a low recovery speed, otherwise that extreme depth wouldn't be attainable.

 

[AccurateCalls]

According to the developer, the detectors' discrimination works well throughout its depth range.

This is true for every detector in totally benign soil. This isn't true for every detector in soil that isn't entirely benign.

As the depth of the target increases, the magnitude of the target's impedance vector reduces (or the magnitude of the targets response). Once the magnitude of the target's response approaches the magnitude of the ground signal, the detector will lose its ability to determine the ferrous / non-ferrous properties of the target. In other words, for all detectors, a sufficiently deep target / weak response begins to be distorted by the surrounding ground. All detectors lose the ability to discriminate before they lose the ability to detect the presence of a target. This is basic physics / linear algebra in action. This is true for Minelab, XP, Nokta and yes Nexus and literally every other VLF in existence. This is a general limitation imposed by the physics of the magnetic field being transmitted into the ground and has nothing to do with SF/SMF nor Digital / Analogue.

So Georgi isn't technically lying, but he isn't being totally honest either about how the detector will behave in most ground conditions. Note that even in Calabash's very mild soil, the ground balance is incredibly finicky.

Is the Nexus "pinpoint based"? Pinpoint to me, means motion, no discrimination, and short blips on small targets. The Nexus has the opposite of all of that.

I am not sure if this is a typo, or if we are assigning different meaning, but pinpoint is literally a non-motion mode. E.g. you can hold the coil stationary above a target and it will continue to make a tone.

This is what the Nexus does, but with the caveat of slowly detuning / attenuating over time. The XP Deus 2's pinpoint mode can behave in the same way when you enable the detuning, albeit it detunes faster.

For example, an SMF detector can be disced to only hit on copper and silver, which is a massive amount filtering, yet little if any depth loss occurs when doing so.

This is audio filtering, meaning it happens in the audio processing layer. A digital detector can take this signal, store a perfect copy in memory, and then runs filters on it without distorting the original copy stored in memory. An analogue detector takes this signals and runs it through a chain of several hardware filters in sequence, each hardware filter distorts the signal slightly by introducing noise along the way. This means for analogue, more filters means less depth. For whatever reason, this concept that filters distort the original signal is a bit of a vestige from analogue days. This is why people incorrectly think, for example, that turning on/off the horeshoe button on a Minelab detector affects its depth.

Rather, I think it's mainly a result of an abnormally low recovery speed.

The Nexus very slowly detunes. This is the 'low recovery speed' that Georgi is referring to. This technology isn't anything new, and has been around for longer than I have been alive.

Recovery speed can be thought of as transient amplification. E.g. when a signals rate of change exceeds some value (positive derivate), we amplify the signal, but likewise, when it begins to decrease (negative derivative), we can suppress that signal faster in preparation for a different nearby target to begin to increase the rate of change back to a positive derivative. E.g. a low recovery speed suppresses a decreasing signal much slower than usual (this is the slow detuning of the Nexus).

The Nexus isn't doing anything novel, or groundbreaking. All detectors designed to go very deep, e.g. XP Extreme, 2 Box detectors, have exactly the same 'very low recovery speed' mode.

 

[Diga]

Yes AC, that was a typo.

I probably have to head out in a couple of minutes, so I'll reply a little later.

 

[Surf Master]

Earl,

Start your posts with a seizure warning!

Calabash bought his Nexus and Manticore.

He has the Manticore's gain at 22, because that's about the maximum he can run it at without it being chatty and unstable. Besides, even if he went from 24 to max, that's only going to add a very small amount of depth.

I don't know what you mean by "fake" and "BS". The video clearly shows that the Nexus is hitting that half 8" to 10" deeper than the Manticore. Calabash was just as surprised as most everyone else.

The Nexus is not designed for salt beahces, and doesn't work well in salt.

I don't know why some think good targets can't get that deep. In my area, I dig freakin clad up to about 12" with my SMF. The old silver and copper coins in my area, are mostly below the depth of what modern SMF detectors can hit.

It seems to me (and just about everyone else) that the Nexus a very niche detector. Perhaps for ancient pasture / crop land that is found across the pond, in which coins and relics that are thousands of years old, can easily be at that extreme depth.

OK, being a UK machine , funny none for sale here , but Calabash gets it , he lied before , and if you think he bought it , you will believe anything , his fake testing , getting freebies, he will always show favoritism for kickbacks , there is a reason why he got banned here , bottom line if he tested one manufacturers machine live digs , vs manufacturer against manufacturer it would be better , one of the reasons he is not on here , along with negative you tube videos bashing members I was one of them , so anything posted , along with his videos on Friendly WILL get Fact checked , Happy Hunting.