Interesting enough, in my opinion, the E-Track coil is more akin to the SEF "butterfly" design more than a traditional DD. I wonder if that has anything to do with its outstanding performance?
Show me the evidence that the V3 is as good as the E-Track!
- Thread starter Romeo7
- Start date
Interesting enough, in my opinion, the E-Track coil is more akin to the SEF "butterfly" design more than a traditional DD. I wonder if that has anything to do with its outstanding performance?
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- Jan 11, 2006
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I have been reading this thread and also researching the V and E like a lot of people. One thing I find interesting, (on the Findmall forums) I see more people having problems with the V and more people finding deep silver with the E, yada yada, leaning curve yada, but... the classified section is littered with E's and rarely a V for sale.I KNOW that they are both great machines and it would be a hard choice for me which to buy. The topic of this forum "evidence V is as good as E" leaves me wondering why so many people are selling the E? Check it out: http://www.findmall.com/list.php?44
Probably because most detectorists are older and can't swing the E-Trac as well because of its weight.
CyberSage
Elite Member
I think you are right on the nose with that observation Romeo. The 11" DD on the E-Trac is without a doubt a higher quality coil.
Maybe so. The E-Trac is 3.5 no batteries. Can't find any mention on the weight of the V3...
6000 Di Pro
Senior Member
This was my observation about 10 days ago i went to the PO and i seen a guy getting ready MD'ing the park so i stopped and chatted with him=getting his MD out of the car or putting it in? so i asked him how well he did? said he was just starting=Asked him if he was one of the guys that my wife told me she seen MD a week earlier=He said yes.
Anyways he said he and his bud got 4 silvers and about 20 wheaties right over there=where i have hunted several times before with the DFX. I had my high doubts?? Well i watched him for 1 1/2 Hrs pull out 1 silver rosie and about 15 wheaties with an expolrer. I thought i had my DFX kinda running on edge in that area without it going haywire?? but i guess it just doesn't have the mustard.
Most of the guys coins were 8-10"+ deep and i can usually hit some 8" coins but the signals break up. I'm a dyed in the wool white's user but after that eyes on observation i think i need an upgrade for sure. The one thing i did notice though is that when the guy took his swings he only moved the coil forward like 2". Myself i like to move the coil ahead like 5" on a 10" coil.
One last note is that there is a considerable amount of iron sometimes in that area and a small amount of trash. Things like that is you wish you had your detector and say could i check that out?
Kevin
Anyways he said he and his bud got 4 silvers and about 20 wheaties right over there=where i have hunted several times before with the DFX. I had my high doubts?? Well i watched him for 1 1/2 Hrs pull out 1 silver rosie and about 15 wheaties with an expolrer. I thought i had my DFX kinda running on edge in that area without it going haywire?? but i guess it just doesn't have the mustard.
Most of the guys coins were 8-10"+ deep and i can usually hit some 8" coins but the signals break up. I'm a dyed in the wool white's user but after that eyes on observation i think i need an upgrade for sure. The one thing i did notice though is that when the guy took his swings he only moved the coil forward like 2". Myself i like to move the coil ahead like 5" on a 10" coil.
One last note is that there is a considerable amount of iron sometimes in that area and a small amount of trash. Things like that is you wish you had your detector and say could i check that out?
Kevin
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6000 Di Pro
Senior Member
There is a weight comparison chart on KellyCo's website for the V3 @ 4.5 Lbs and the E-Trac @ 4.8 Lbs.
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Lightningjack
Forum Supporter
Also I have never tried an e-trac but if the tones are anything like an explorer that might drive people nuts before they ever learn the machine..
Jason in Enid
Elite Member
Also I have never tried an e-trac but if the tones are anything like an explorer that might drive people nuts before they ever learn the machine..
I was just watching some youtube vids of an ETrac hunter. Those sounds are WAY different than what I'm used to hearing from my Whites.
Jack Flynn
Elite Member
I have talked to two of the E Trac sellers in the last couple of days. The reason is from both, just not their cup-o-tea. I really think anyone that would sell one after just a couple of months hasn't given it near enough chance to learn the language. Some like beep and dig plain and simple. The E Trac will do that very well, but you will dig a lot of other stuff too. I'm just figuring out myself those pretty smooth warbles like I "was" wanting to hear before I dug probably steered me to leave probably 1000's of good targets in the ground. IOW that is not the norm. Is repeatability the norm, maybe 50% of the time. It's just plain and simple learning the language of the machine. Very confusing, really very confusing if you are a beep and dig or show me a picture kind of guy, it's a comfort zone for a lot and they don't want to get away from it. One thing for sure, I'm seeing through a lot of the lets say gibberish sounds now and seeing some big differences in what I'm digging and especially the depth I'm digging. I'm going to try and special order a ground shark with 16 or 18 inch blade if they will make one for me. I can honestly say that myself being one year MDing that the learning curve is steep but I am conquering it. In the real world I feel sure that once someone, anyone masters all the pieces of the different languages the machine will throw at you and the repetitive combination of what is good and isn't with the sounds they will be on top of the heap every time. Heck I just want to start climbing it. I'll be there soon
randy
Forum Supporter
Well, I think being comfortable with the machine is part of the decision. It is still a hobby for fun.
When I went thru this process, I felt the E-Trac would be the better machine. Alot of good advice on this forum from some smart people led me that way. But I went with the V3 because I felt it would be more fun to use. I didn't get the sense I would enjoy using the E-Trac. I also got it for $400 less than I could get an E-Trac at the time, and quite frankly, that was the deciding factor; I never thought I would find $400 worth of extra silver.
I'm not trying to pump or bash either machine. It is just the way it went down for me. I do hope to get an E-Trac someday, and do my own side by side tests, and sell the machine that loses once I complete those tests, including which machine is more fun to use, but that will have to wait on the economy turning.
Cherry Picker
Forum Supporter
As some one who has a lot of years in metal detecting and has had many different detectors, I think those in the same boat will agree, the detector you use, while important, plays a very small role in being successful. Its all about location, determination and a bit of luck. This is why you'll see a post by some new hunter that spent $100 on a detector and is pulling out old coins on virtually every hunt, and some that spent $1200 not finding squat.
Location plays a big part on the other factors required to make a successful hunter. For those of us that don't live in the eastern area where people have been loosing stuff since the colonial days, or down south along the coast where treasure ships sank by the score, determination is a much needed factor. I consider myself lucky and fortunate, for a Midwest resident, to be living in a very history rich location, but then I only learned this through determination and research. From research, through determination, I know anything is possible. Here in Kansas I have found a Spanish Reale and a 3rd century Roman coin. Neither which I would have believed possible.
Luck? My dad used tell me, when I made the remark about someone else being lucky, that "you make you own luck." Of course at the time I was like rrrright! but now I understand what he meant, and he is right. I have been called lucky but they never knew just who much work went into increasing my odds of being lucky. Lets face it, its all about luck to some degree, but then we can influence the odds through determination.
So just where does the detector itself factor in? Your detector is really only a tool. What one thinks of as a good tool is simply a matter of personal preference usually derived from their own experience. Of course if you're new to metal detecting then you really don't have that experience to pull from, so you must sort through the seemingly endless rants and raves of the experiences of others. Often not a pretty sight, and even more confusing than not knowing.
How important is the right detector you may ask? Again it really depends on the other factors, but then having the best you can afford sure won't hurt your odds any. In the end your choice only needs to what works best for you. Be that the E-Trac or V3.
Location plays a big part on the other factors required to make a successful hunter. For those of us that don't live in the eastern area where people have been loosing stuff since the colonial days, or down south along the coast where treasure ships sank by the score, determination is a much needed factor. I consider myself lucky and fortunate, for a Midwest resident, to be living in a very history rich location, but then I only learned this through determination and research. From research, through determination, I know anything is possible. Here in Kansas I have found a Spanish Reale and a 3rd century Roman coin. Neither which I would have believed possible.
Luck? My dad used tell me, when I made the remark about someone else being lucky, that "you make you own luck." Of course at the time I was like rrrright! but now I understand what he meant, and he is right. I have been called lucky but they never knew just who much work went into increasing my odds of being lucky. Lets face it, its all about luck to some degree, but then we can influence the odds through determination.
So just where does the detector itself factor in? Your detector is really only a tool. What one thinks of as a good tool is simply a matter of personal preference usually derived from their own experience. Of course if you're new to metal detecting then you really don't have that experience to pull from, so you must sort through the seemingly endless rants and raves of the experiences of others. Often not a pretty sight, and even more confusing than not knowing.
How important is the right detector you may ask? Again it really depends on the other factors, but then having the best you can afford sure won't hurt your odds any. In the end your choice only needs to what works best for you. Be that the E-Trac or V3.
RacerX
Full Member
In deep coin parks your swing should barley move forward. I usually go an inch or less. Assuming you're using a concentric coil the size of of your detecting field is about an inch around (cone shaped) where it reaches deeper coins. (Think of it like painting your park with a sharpie) DFX is a deep machine. No reason you should be getting close to the Explorer (though I think the exporer is a little deeper machine).
simonthesearcher
Forum Supporter
People,a detector,any detector within reason is as good as what you make of it.I have never used the V3 but i am very sure,Whites will not put something out onto the market as there flagship machine knowing that it will not be able to compete with the Minelab top end machine (E-Trac),and the same goes for Minelab too.I really dont think one machine is better than the other.Its what your used too,Whites,Minelab,XP,,,all there top end machines are good,,they have to be to be able to compete
Jason in Enid
Elite Member
Compete? sure. On par? not necessarily.
Every detector manufacturer wants to have the best machine available. That doesn't mean the the top Whites, Garrett, Minelab, etc are all equal.
Technology improves, thats a fact.
15 Years ago I upgraded to the White's 6000 pro SL. A buddy and I proceeded to clean-out a location. We thought we had virgin ground we were finding so much silver there. When talking later to an old-timer detectorist he was in shock at what we found. He swore that HE cleaned that place out a decade prior. All we needed was new technology.
The changes don't come as fast as we would like, but they do come. Who has the "best" is a floating standard.
PS, my ETrac just showed up at the front door. I might be gone for a while!
Every detector manufacturer wants to have the best machine available. That doesn't mean the the top Whites, Garrett, Minelab, etc are all equal.
Technology improves, thats a fact.
15 Years ago I upgraded to the White's 6000 pro SL. A buddy and I proceeded to clean-out a location. We thought we had virgin ground we were finding so much silver there. When talking later to an old-timer detectorist he was in shock at what we found. He swore that HE cleaned that place out a decade prior. All we needed was new technology.
The changes don't come as fast as we would like, but they do come. Who has the "best" is a floating standard.
PS, my ETrac just showed up at the front door. I might be gone for a while!
RacerX
Full Member
on the flip side of that - I know a guy who uses an old teknetics (spelling?). It's an analog machine and the box itself is strapped to his side. It's so old the plastic cover on over the needle is yellow and you can barely see through it. It looks like a radio shack POS from the 70's. He's bought and sold whites, ML's, fishers trying to replace this old heavy cumbersome machine but he always goes back to it. This guy produces more coins with that old thing than anybody I know with any machine. He's amazing to watch.
Cherry Picker
Forum Supporter
You should never discount an old detector in the hands of an experienced user, just as you should never discount new technology in the hands of an experienced user.
Lightningjack
Forum Supporter
CyberSage
Elite Member
Some really great perspective coming to light here. This has turned out to be a thought provoking thread. Thanks Romeo.
Keep Swing'in
Jack
Keep Swing'in
Jack
I have been reading this thread and also researching the V and E like a lot of people. One thing I find interesting, (on the Findmall forums) I see more people having problems with the V and more people finding deep silver with the E, yada yada, leaning curve yada, but... the classified section is littered with E's and rarely a V for sale.
The Vision is pretty snazzy with all the graphs and everything...but I want the E Trac too. I think it's a case of you always want what you don't have syndrome.
My Opinion. Here it is for the record. Take an out-of-the=box E-Trac and an out-of-the-box V3 and give them both to a beginner and that individual is going to be finding Silver with the E-Trac long before they find their first piece with the V3. Give the same machines to an experienced user and I will still give the edge to the E-Trac. Modify the V3 with a better coil (SEF 10x12) and use the custom tone setting to modify the -95 to -93 range and accept that range in your discrimination pattern as well, and now you have a V3 that will run deeper than the E-Trac. The choice of the D2 coil by Whites is it's weakness in my opinion. Because of the 22.5 kHz frequency the targets will wrap to the negative side when deep. The versatility of the V3 allows for you to compensate for this though. I will have my E-trac by February or March. Not because it's better than the V3, but because it has a clear advantage when it comes to deep silver. You can never have to many detectors either.We are fortunate to have some very experienced Whites users here on the forum. What makes them even more valuable is these long time Whites users have purchased E-Tracs and have very good perspective on essential differences. Angel, Okie and Detector are very experienced, and you stand to learn a lot if you follow their post. That being said, I would go head to head on a test garden with any of them and I believe the V3 would prevail at this point.
Keep Swing'in
Jack
Thanks for your post Jack. Well thought out a well put. I'm really wanting to try the E-trac. Has anyone played with the emulator? It's pretty sweet.
CyberSage
Elite Member
Hmmmm? Looks like you found the proof you where looking for Romeo7...
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=37767
Congratulations on a nice find with your new V3.
Keep Swing'in
Jack
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=37767
Congratulations on a nice find with your new V3.
Keep Swing'in
Jack
