Nokta Makro Legend feedback, use, comparisons, etc

[tnsharpshooter]

Video
Legend with 6 inch coil comparing park and multi wet.
Quarter and foil.
Park stinks.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CWLdE_gGtOg

 

[Diga]

Given more thought, I'll try the dime on edge in M1, M2, M3, MD, MW, and the single frequencies.

TNNS,

I'm really interested in seeing what happens with MW

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Given more thought, I'll try the dime on edge in M1, M2, M3, MD, MW, and the single frequencies.

TNNS,

I'm really interested in seeing what happens with MW

ME TOO.

Another video using new same foil in video I posted link to above. Switched out quarter for clad dime.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2xmx4aOtQ4

 

[Diga]

ME TOO.

In all honesty, the only thing you posted about the Legend that has ever caught my attention, was what you found with MW.

If it was simply a matter of weighted SMF, then M1, M2, M3, and MW should be showing at least somewhat similar ID's. YET, MW is showing a massive difference in ID compared to the other SMF modes.

The drastic difference in ID leads me to believe that this is more than a matter of differences in the weighted SMF. I'm now thinking that MW isn't true SMF, but rather a single frequency.

 

[Diga]

Continued from my previous post, about suspecting MW to be a single frequency. I bet if you tried that same test using
single frequencies, you'll get as good as ID as MW

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Continued from my previous post, about suspecting MW to be a single frequency. I bet if you tried that same test using
single frequencies, you'll get as good as ID as MW

It will up to certain freq. upon getting 15 kHz and higher ID will be lower.
In modern trash site using Legend V1.09. Use of 10 kHz better than using multi park M1-M3. For mid depth and shallower unmasking.

I did previous videos. Showing Equinox Park 1 has advantage vs Legend using park and field M1-M3 allowing EqX to give more near actual ID of nonferoud being masked more by foil, etc.
Multi wet beach even better here than EQX park 1.

Also nonferrous higher conductors near ferrous. Beach wet has high chance of allowing more accurate ID of higher conductor vs park and field M1-M3 use.

Did folks see CDs 5” dime in test garden foil in plain view on top of ground. How multi wet exposed dime with tone and ID. Park M1-M3 sorry on scenario.

Legend in its current state V1.09 using land (non beach) /soil based programs is NOT a high end performer. The real deal. The following multi freq model detectors Equinox, Etrac, Deus 2, explorer, CTX 3030 all beat it badly.
So Nokta Makro has a choice to make it seems. To get in the game. Don’t they?
I call balls balls and strikes strikes.
I am the real deal Sharpshooter.
Oh yeah I can shoot a rifle too,. Might shoot better than some think too.

PS
You see I have owned and used all detectors listed above. And used in the wild and tested. So no BS.

 

[jmaclen]

In all honesty, the only thing you posted about the Legend that has ever caught my attention, was what you found with MW.

If it was simply a matter of weighted SMF, then M1, M2, M3, and MW should be showing at least somewhat similar ID's. YET, MW is showing a massive difference in ID compared to the other SMF modes.

The drastic difference in ID leads me to believe that this is more than a matter of differences in the weighted SMF. I'm now thinking that MW isn't true SMF, but rather a single frequency.

MW is not a single frequency mode..... it does appear to be using lower frequency weighting than Multi D which will help with salt sensitivity (salt mimics a very low conductor non-ferrous target) and higher conductive target sensitivity and ignore more of the lower conductive trash and may improve lower conductive masking in inert ground balance testing and in salt beach conditions.


Here is a bit from the updated online manual. It doesn't exactly explain why the IDs are different but it makes clear reference to it.

"The ground balance and ID stability has been optimized for different conditions and will vary for each option. In wet beach sand, MW Multi frequency will generate accurate IDs but if you switch to MD, the IDs may be wrong. Similarly, in dry sand with low salinity, you can ground balance the detector in MD but if you switch to MW, you may not be able to ground balance."

MD/s frequency weighting is more like M1 but with low salinity sensitivity and less salt ground balance compensation compared to MW.

I have had to run Equinox Beach 1 in some gold prospecting situations out west where salinity levels are sometimes higher on evaporated salt flats and low spots. It works very well. Beach 2 will not ground balance well in the same places and will completely ignore smaller nuggets and small aluminum trash.

Now this is my opinion from trying to figure it out......I think this is what is wrong with Deus 2s higher frequency weighted Multi programs when it comes to small to micro sized low conductors......the entire detector is setup to ignore smaller aluminum trash and iron particles. Whether that has been done across all SMF modes to help with salt water performance in the programming and frequency weighting and/or in the coil sensitivity.....or both, I don't know. That's great for most people....stinks for gold prospectors.

 

[woodbutcher]

I'm not seeing the legend as a middle class detector. Actually you can't really put the Deus 2, 3030 and Equinox in the same catagories. Ones a dedicated relic machine,the other a dedicated coin machine and the equinox a dedicated multi purpose machine..Three very different machines..The legend would fall in line with the equinox,a dedicated multi purpose machine..Should not be compared to the ,Deus 2 or 3030

 

[jmaclen]

Woodbutcher..... I totally agree with your comparison. Unfortunately when a manufacturer (Nokta) has "transparency" that is much greater than its competition that also included saying things in public that should have been left unsaid like comparing the Legend's price point with the price point of Deus 2 and the CTX 3030 in order to substantiate what a great deal the Legend is for most people who might use a detector, this leaves the door wide open for some people to get territorial and butt hurt. That implies performance similarities across the board which aren't realistic.

For heavily iron trashed relic hunting, I would pick an XP product all day long if one was available. For deep silver in milder soil conditions I am picking a CTX 3030 or Etrac right now. For an all around, easy to operate, take it anywhere without attaching antennas, worrying about red and black plugs, which ear buds, back phones, headphones, audio module to use, etc..... and still do very well on a wide range of targets......the Legend and the Equinox are definitely the only show in town at the moment. That should have been the limit of Nokta's focus.

If Nokta had just compared the Equinox-Vanquish/Legend/Garrett APEX together and left Deus 2 and other high end specialty VLF detector price points out of the conversation.......things may have been very different.

 

[Diga]

MW is not a single frequency mode..... it does appear to be using lower frequency weighting than Multi D which will help with salt sensitivity (salt mimics a very low conductor non-ferrous target) and higher conductive target sensitivity and ignore more of the lower conductive trash and may improve lower conductive masking in inert ground balance testing and in salt beach conditions.

If M1 and MW are weighted toward the lower frequencies, then I would think that the ID's would be at least "kind of" close. But, they're not even kind of close. They're massively different in TNSS's unmasking test. I can't imagine how a slight weight difference in the frequencies, would cause such a massively different target ID. That's why I'm thinking MW is using either 5 khz or 10 khz, OR, there is some other very significant difference in Beach mode that causes such drastic ID difference. Note how I asked TNSS to try the single frequencies in that test, and he confirmed that the single low frequencies were behaving like MW.

Also, on 2 different sites, BW would ground balance to zero. If I remember correctly, that is a failed ground balance. Further to that, on one of the sites Park and Field were fine for noise and stability, but Beach mode was extremely noisy and unstable for some reason. I guess it was some odd emi on that site that was severely affecting Beach mode, and not Park or Field.

 

[jmaclen]

If M1 and MW are weighted toward the lower frequencies, then I would think that the ID's would be at least "kind of" close. But, they're not even kind of close. They're massively different in TNSS's unmasking test. I can't imagine how a slight weight difference in the frequencies, would cause such a massively different target ID. That's why I'm thinking MW is using either 5 khz or 10 khz, OR, there is some other very significant difference in Beach mode that causes such drastic ID difference. Note how I asked TNSS to try the single frequencies in that test, and he confirmed that the single low frequencies were behaving like MW.

Also, on 2 different sites, BW would ground balance to zero. If I remember correctly, that is a failed ground balance. Further to that, on one of the sites Park and Field were fine for noise and stability, but Beach mode was extremely noisy and unstable for some reason. I guess it was some odd emi on that site that was severely affecting Beach mode, and not Park or Field.

The big differences between MW and the other modes are the compensations for sensitivity to high levels of salt both in the frequency weighting and the expanded ground balance operation range which allows the Legend to run quietly submerged in saltwater and when going from wet sand to submerged.

Do I like it that the IDs are different and that I can't use MW anywhere on a particular beach.....No. Did I pay $700 for a perfectly good all around, all terrain detector that performs better than its price? Yeah and I'm glad I did.

I hope Nokta can improve the ferrous/low conductor/high conductor target separation in at least one of the land modes. As for the beach modes....I really don't care as long as they will ground balance and work reasonably well.

 

[Diga]

The big differences between MW and the other modes are the compensations for sensitivity to high levels of salt both in the frequency weighting and the expanded ground balance operation range which allows the Legend to run quietly submerged in saltwater and when going from wet sand to submerged.

And that's enough to cause that drastic ID change that TNNS showed, and the inability to ground balance in dry dirt? If so, then wow...I would never have imagined that.

 

[jmaclen]

And that's enough to cause that drastic ID change that TNNS showed, and the inability to ground balance in dry dirt? If so, then wow...I would never have imagined that.

You don't need TNSS to show it to you, just do it yourself. Also, when a manufacturer puts a paragraph like the one I quoted in their manual it shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone when what they said actually occurs. People should test and learn their detectors as best they can, but who has the time or desire to do that anymore........ Then we wouldn't need tnsharpshooter or anybody else to do it for us.

 

[Diga]

I have every intention of doing that test tonight. If I can reproduce what tnss is showing in bw, then I assure you, I will be posting it on nokta's
official Facebook page, as well as the Legends official Facebook page

 

[jmaclen]

I wanted to try the Legend to see if it had Equinox-like performance but didn't have Equinox leaking and coil ear breaking issues. So far, the Legend has Equinox-like performance and has not had even minor leaking issues and no coil ear issues that I know of.

The speaker not having clear sound after submerging the system box is addressed in the manual.

Speakers failing, power management chips failing, and a few bad coils....I wish it didn't happen but it does.

Many, many people having trouble doing software updates is not good at all. Hopefully Nokta's new software update tool will help with that.

As far as I am concerned, with the addition of Pitch Tones, comparable audio options, the vibration feature, excellent overall build quality and generally near equivalent performance, the Legend is a good alternative to the Equinox for me and with the promise of more software updates to improve performance and add features, I feel like I did okay buying a Legend. It was buy a Legend or an Equinox 600 just for water use since I don't trust my out of warranty 800's to survive submersion anymore and paying $400+ for a replacement control pod doesn't make any sense to me either when I can buy a similar detector that doesn't leak in the first place.

 

[Diga]

Oh I'm completely satisfied with my legend. When all is said and done, it is an amazing detector. So jmaclen
, do you think that foil / quarter test that tnss did, is a concern?

 

[jmaclen]

Not for me, unless every piece of foil that I encounter during a hunt is exactly like the foil TNSS used.......same goes for the nail/nails he uses.

Every detector will miss targets, period.

I have deliberately hunted areas that I have pounded with the Equinox 800 using the Legend and Deus 2. I am not finding huge amounts of higher conductive targets that I missed with the Equinox. I am finding huge amounts of US nickels that I missed (and knew I was probably missing) because the extended target ID range in the nickel area moves many aluminum targets away from the nickel IDs on the Legend and Deus 2. After hearing a hundred or more targets with 12/13 IDs using an Equinox in a modern aluminum trashed park in just a few minutes of hunting......I just mentally tune those targets out from fatigue or notch them out if I can't stand it anymore using the Equinox.

For me it's all relative.

I am not about to pronounce a mode on a detector stinks based on static air tests.

I have been critical of the sensitivity of Deus 2's higher weighted SMF modes on small low conductor targets. I didn't come to that conclusion from just static testing. I came to that conclusion from side by side hunting with the Legend, Equinox and Deus 2 in high iron mineralization, counting and marking targets with flags and digging them. In every wild target test like that in modern aluminum/steel alloy/small bits of iron trashed parks, the Equinox detected the most targets, the Legend came in a close second and Deus 2 was a distant third. This is not due to depth of detection. The depth on coin sized objects and level of target ID accuracy was virtually identical even on poorly oriented targets and ferrous partially masked targets between the three detectors. The big difference in the targets detected number was Deus 2 was not detecting all of the smaller, shallower low conductor and ferrous targets in the sub gram range that the Equinox and Legend hit easily......and I was using Park 1 on the Nox and Park M1 on the Legend versus the higher weighted modes on Deus 2 and Deus 2 had a smaller coil than the Legend and Nox. Those higher weighted modes combined with the 9" coil should have lit up the ground on all of those smaller/shallower targets. They did not...even Goldfield. Any factory preset notches were turned off before testing and settings other than the modes used were as close as I could make them.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Video showing Legend and Equinox 800. Six inch coils used.
Foil and nickel watching ID given.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LBJPjEblFjM

 

[Diga]

Thank you for that thorough and honest reply jmaclen. Your name is Jeff, correct?

 

[jmaclen]

Jeff and a few others……