Is this due to the 9" HF coil?

Cherry Picker

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The ground in my yard is very iron-contaminated. I tried to show it on the video, but it got cut off. I have a quarter, dime, nickel, and penny buried only 5" and the only detector that seems to be able to hit them all is my Deus with the 9" HF coil. I tried the Legend with the stock coil, factory Park M2, and all metal, recovery at 1, max sensitivity. Couldn't hit one of them. Tried the Equinox 800, Park 1, recovery at 1, max sensitivity, and all metal. Couldn't hit a one. The Deus with factory Deep nothing else changed hit all 4 targets. SMF didn't seem to help in these conditions. Could it have been the coil?

Thanks

 
I made a promise to you that I would not directly comment about your posts. So far I have kept that promise but you have asked for help and I am willing to try.

Legend stock LG28 11" coil settings: You said you were using "factory Park M2" but you changed the tones to 60 (factory is 4), changed recovery speed to 1(slowest) of 10 (fastest), maxed out sensitivity 30 (factory is 25) and used the A (all targets accepted) discrimination pattern. Did you change the iron filter setting from factory default 8 which is one setting from maximum 9? Basically, Park M2 will hit any metal that is in the ground that is a millimeter in diameter or larger and a tenth of a gram or heavier since it is running with the highest weighting towards 39 kHz. So running recovery speed at 1 and iron filter at 8 with sensitivity on 30 is just going to magnify and lengthen the most predominant target signals in the ground which appears to be manmade iron with a little magnetite. You said the Legend basically was not hitting any of the freshly planted (?) 5" deep coins. That is not what I heard or saw.

These are the target IDs I saw in your Legend video for the coins: Quarter-31, 32, 50(correct ID) along with mostly numbers between 1 and 8. Dime- I saw a 43 twice which is a good ID, the rest were below 10. Nickel 18 to 28 which are really close to accurate 26 ID and 31/32 with lots of IDs below 10. Penny-(what kind zinc or copper?) I saw a couple of 29s with the rest of the IDs below 10.

Equinox 800 stock 11" coil settings: Park 1 Multi, 50 tones, recovery speed 1(slowest) of 6 (default is 5), maxed out sensitivity at 25 (default is 20), accepted all targets. Did you change the default iron bias setting of 6 to something lower? Park1 Multi has mid range weighting (somewhere around 20 kHz) so it won't hit the tiniest targets like Park 2 multi or the Legend's Park M2. However, the recovery speed on 1, maxed sensitivity and iron bias on maximum setting of 6 again like the Legend's settings will magnify and elongate the most predominant metallic signals in the ground. You said the 800 "Couldn't hit a one". That is not what I heard and saw.

These are the target IDs I saw in your Equinox 800 video for the coins: Quarter-15, 16, 18, 21, 22 (correct is 30) and there were lots of IDs below 0, Dime-all of the target IDs were below 0, Nickel: 14 (really close to the correct 12/13 ID), 16, 18, 27 with the rest being below 0, Penny 15, 18, 19(if it was a Zinc penny then really close to accurate ID of 20) and the rest were below 0.

Deus 1 with 9" round HF coil: Deep program with 14.4 kHz single frequency, 2 tone ferrous/non ferrous audio (why not use full tones like the Legend and Equinox????), disc on 5.5, sensitivity 90 of 99, iron volume 3 (similar to the Legend and 800), reactivity 2.......the settings are 0, 1, 2, 2.5, 3, 4 and 5 so a setting of 2 is mid range and not the absolute slowest like the Legend and 800 were set on, default silencer setting in Deep is -1 which is the minimum setting as opposed to the maximum settings that Legend and 800 may have been set on. So, even though I personally wouldn't use the Deep program for unmasking shallower targets in iron, it does do okay. At least having a reasonable recovery speed and silencer setting won't iron mask non ferrous targets as easily as the settings that the Legend and 800 were set to.

Deus 1's iron mineralization meter (for magnetite mineralization mostly) stayed on 1 or 2 bars of 12 most of the time and peaked at 5 a couple of times, so your soil's magnetite conditions are fairly mild. My Deus 1/ORX/Deus 2 mineralization meter stays on half full to full most of the time.

You said that Deus 1 hit the targets best.....part of that is due to it being in 2 tones in my opinion with a reasonable reactivity speed 2 and the minimum iron bias setting -1. Did it really?

These are the target IDs I saw in your Deus 1 video for the coins. Quarter non ferrous target IDs were 00 and 98, 99....mostly 00 which will often produce higher non ferrous responses. That is just how Deus 1 works. Correct quarter ID is 94. Most of the non 00 IDs were below 5. Dime non ferrous target IDs were 07 a few times with some 00, correct ID is 86 or so. Most of the non 00 IDs were below 5. Nickel non ferrous target IDs were 00 and 96 (correct ID is 63). Most of the non 00 IDs were below 5. Penny non ferrous IDs were 00, 35, 82 (correct for zinc) 94, and 99. Most of the non 00 target IDs were below 5.

For me in those conditions with freshly buried 5" deep US coin targets using the Legend or Equinox 800, I would set both on 2 tones, keep the recovery speed on a mid range number like 4 or 5 at least, lower the iron filter/iron bias setting to 0 or 1, lower the sensitivity to around default 20 or so, use the same discrimination settings you did with all targets accepted and try the M1 versus M2 frequency weightings and see which one does best. I would expect some funky target IDs and plenty of ferrous/non ferrous tones even with those settings but there would be some accurate ones too and you might be able to isolate the targets using the pinpoint function then scan again when you get the coils exactly centered over the targets and see if the IDs and amount of non ferrous tones improve.
 
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CP,


I didn't watch your video, but I will shortly.

I read the part of "very iron contaminated", then remembered our discussions about iron bias, and how you were "reluctant" about it. The Legend has a very high default iron bias (Iron Filter). I was about to post and say drop the IF to zero, then I scrolled down to see that not only did Jeff mention it, but he added all sorts of other excellent information :)
 
The DEUS in #9 Hot full tone disc at 10 would pull those coins out .. I have found a thin gold chain at this setting .. A Tot Lot slayer

You know there iron in the ground turn the Disc up

I do not understand why people think they have to run max sens to get that extra 1/4 inch
The Legend Nox's and XTP just purrs along at sens 12-15 will get the 0 - 6 inches depth where the coins and jewelry is setting
 
CP,


I didn't watch your video, but I will shortly.

I read the part of "very iron contaminated", then remembered our discussions about iron bias, and how you were "reluctant" about it. The Legend has a very high default iron bias (Iron Filter). I was about to post and say drop the IF to zero, then I scrolled down to see that not only did Jeff mention it, but he added all sorts of other excellent information :)
I'm sure if I spent some time on each detector I could tweak them to the point of hitting those coins. I was just wanting to do nothing but use the factory setup. I feel the testers, if they did their job, have probably set the factory programs to perform well. I wanted to compare all factory. I did lower the recovery speed on both the Legend & 800 and max the sensitivity because I was getting nothing from them. I made no changes to the Deus. Just turned it on and put it in program #9. Well, I did noise cancel & ground balance all of them.
 
The default IB on the Legend is high, and it's fairly highly on the Nox. Either way, both those defaults are too high for ideal nonferrous unmasking in iron infested sites.

In addition, it's my understanding that for whatever reason, the default (and often fixed) IB on SF detectors like the D1, isn't typically set as high as SMF detectors.
 
Lots of good info here as I have been using the Nox(900) and about to start using the Legend. Why do you think the default IF/IB is set so high from the factory? Also on the Legend what exactly does the IF stability do? I know where it is and how to adjust it but still don't know what it does?
 
Lots of good info here as I have been using the Nox(900) and about to start using the Legend. Why do you think the default IF/IB is set so high from the factory? Also on the Legend what exactly does the IF stability do? I know where it is and how to adjust it but still don't know what it does?
To the best of my knowledge, the deault IB is set fairly high to high on all SMF detecors.

With a low iron bias, iron falsing will typically occur. I suspect that the manufacturers use a higher IB default to play it safe. In other words, the IB is set at a safe setting, until the user understands what the control does, and how to use it.

The iron bias is an iron filter. It controls how much of the iron signal is filtered in and out of the whole signal. A high iron bias produces much less iron falsing, but will miss a lot of good stuff that is collocated with iron. The opposite is true with a low iron bias.
 
To the best of my knowledge, the deault IB is set fairly high to high on all SMF detecors.

With a low iron bias, iron falsing will typically occur. I suspect that the manufacturers use a higher IB default to play it safe. In other words, the IB is set at a safe setting, until the user understands what the control does, and how to use it.

The iron bias is an iron filter. It controls how much of the iron signal is filtered in and out of the whole signal. A high iron bias produces much less iron falsing, but will miss a lot of good stuff that is collocated with iron. The opposite is true with a low iron bias.
Thank You...what does the IF stability setting do?
 
Thank You...what does the IF stability setting do?
You're welcome.

The IF Stability setting is a fine tuning control for the IF. To me, the 10 levels of IF is already more than enough, so I just leave the IF stability at mid level 3 all the time.
 
This has probably been asked before but with a low IF setting on a Legend and iron falsing occurs is the ferro check fooled also?
 
This has probably been asked before but with a low IF setting on a Legend and iron falsing occurs is the ferro check fooled also?
To be clear, true iron falsing is when a ferrous object gives a nonferrous tone (no iron grunt at all), and also gives a nonferrous ID, regardless of how the coil is manipulated over the object.

In such a scenario, FC will typically show bars on the ferrous side, and no bars appear on the nonferrous side. I've learned not to dig those.
 
The reality is a detector is no better than the person operating it UNLESS AI is allowed to handle more features. My opinion.
 
It all comes down to $1600 machine compared to a $600 machine, the nox is priced in the middle. I always had great results with my Deus, should not have sold it.
 
Have AI to figure out how to get my taxes lowered. Until then :p
Here is what it says.

Lowering your taxes typically involves employing various strategies to reduce your taxable income or take advantage of deductions, credits, and other tax-saving opportunities. Here are some common methods to consider:
  1. Contribute to Retirement Accounts: Contributions to retirement accounts such as a 401(k), IRA, or HSA (Health Savings Account) can reduce your taxable income. These contributions are often tax-deductible, meaning they lower your taxable income for the year.
  2. Itemize Deductions: If your deductible expenses (such as mortgage interest, property taxes, charitable contributions, etc.) exceed the standard deduction amount, you may benefit from itemizing your deductions on Schedule A of Form 1040.
  3. Take Advantage of Tax Credits: Tax credits directly reduce your tax liability dollar-for-dollar. Examples include the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), Child Tax Credit, and various education credits. Make sure you meet the eligibility criteria for these credits.
  4. Claim Business Expenses: If you're self-employed or own a business, ensure you're claiming all legitimate business expenses. These can include supplies, equipment, travel expenses, and home office deductions if you work from home.
  5. Invest in Tax-Advantaged Accounts: Consider investing in accounts that offer tax advantages, such as municipal bonds, which provide tax-free income at the federal level, or a 529 plan for education savings.
  6. Tax-Loss Harvesting: If you have investments that have lost value, consider selling them to offset gains from other investments. This strategy, known as tax-loss harvesting, can reduce your taxable investment income.
  7. Maximize Flexible Spending Accounts (FSAs) and Health Savings Accounts (HSAs): Contributions to these accounts are often made with pre-tax dollars, reducing your taxable income. FSAs are used for medical expenses, dependent care, or commuting costs, while HSAs are specifically for medical expenses and must be paired with a high-deductible health plan (HDHP).
  8. Take Advantage of Education Tax Benefits: If you or your dependents are pursuing higher education, consider claiming tax benefits such as the American Opportunity Tax Credit or the Lifetime Learning Credit.
  9. Consider Timing of Income and Deductions: Depending on your situation, you may be able to defer income or accelerate deductions to optimize your tax situation in a particular year.
  10. Consult with a Tax Professional: Tax laws can be complex, and what works best for one person may not work for another. Consulting with a tax professional can help you identify personalized strategies to lower your taxes legally and effectively.
Remember, while it's important to minimize your tax burden, always ensure that your tax-saving strategies comply with current tax laws and regulations to avoid any penalties or issues with the IRS.
 
Equinox Park1 or 2, Sensitivity 20, Recovery 4, Iron bias F2-0, Horseshoe On-All Metal, and 5 tones for the win.
 
Here is what it says.
I could have gotten that from any accountant. Yet I'm supposed to be impressed that AI figured out what it was programmed to say? I had a long Conversation one night with Chat GTP about the Kennedy assassination. Through the whole conversation it told me that I should rely on facts. Then it proceeded to tell me what the facts were. When I asked what facts it was basing its answers on it said based on witness statements. I said fair enough then WHO'S statements. The people interviewed of course.
I then said we know for a FACT that not ALL people who were witnesses were interviewed. Some were interviewed and found not credible. Then when we discussed the Warren commission I asked if it was possible that every member of that commission at some point in there life had lied? It said yes. Then I said ........So in fact if it was found that every member of that commission had told at least one lie in their life then it was safe to say they could be lying about this?

This went on and on until I wore the thing down and it simply said about itself.....I need to do more research to formulate a more accurate answer.
 
I could have gotten that from any accountant. Yet I'm supposed to be impressed that AI figured out what it was programmed to say? I had a long Conversation one night with Chat GTP about the Kennedy assassination. Through the whole conversation it told me that I should rely on facts. Then it proceeded to tell me what the facts were. When I asked what facts it was basing its answers on it said based on witness statements. I said fair enough then WHO'S statements. The people interviewed of course.
I then said we know for a FACT that not ALL people who were witnesses were interviewed. Some were interviewed and found not credible. Then when we discussed the Warren commission I asked if it was possible that every member of that commission at some point in there life had lied? It said yes. Then I said ........So in fact if it was found that every member of that commission had told at least one lie in their life then it was safe to say they could be lying about this?

This went on and on until I wore the thing down and it simply said about itself.....I need to do more research to formulate a more accurate answer.
I sure wouldn't claim one should completely trust what AI says. I have also put ChatGTP to the test and it failed miserably on some historical information. However, when it comes to numerical calculations AI is pretty much on the money. For example, if you asked it to give a single calculation from 15,000 bits of Eddy current frequencies, it would be fast, and perfect. Far better than any human could.
 
Calculators do the same thing with numbers. But still operator based. AI would have to have every possibility coded in it which is the impossible part and then learn to determine on the fly to be of any use in metal detecting past where we are.

Somehow I still believe AI using the internet as a learning tool although helpful can never be absolute. The reason being....Let's use this example..........Calabash says Nokta Legend Bad...Misses this target and that target.......Then a few moths later Calabash says Nokta Legend Great and can see these things. AI will be so overwhelming confused just by Calabashes statements let alone all the others on the internet.

Something tells me all AI is going to get out of that is Calabash is full of $hit. Which may or may not be the case depending on a subjective opinion of the person programing The AI.

Is AI scaring you yet? :yes:
 
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