steveg
Elite Member
NICE job on that silver quarter, DIGGER!
Steve
Steve
Digger27's F70 log....Stardate 91517.72 (11-30-13)
- Thread starter DIGGER27
- Start date
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
2013 was my 4th year in this hobby.
I had an amazing year and my best one ever with close to $400 in clad, lots of silver and my biggest ever silver rings, 12 gold targets and maybe even 13 because I have yet to test a suspiciously golden colored old screw on earring, a gold ring just loaded with ice, my oldest coins I have found so far and a slew of other really neat and cool stuff.
If you consider the fact that I hunt public parks about 95% of the time and I tend to hit these same sites over and over and still manage to find great things just adds to that amazement.
With the F70 I believe I have a whole other world open to me and at some new sites I plan on hunting and even going back to some of these old ones I believe that 2014 has a great chance to top this one.
We will see, and even though I am new at using this F70 and just starting the learning process, I can't think of any other tool I would want to be with me on this new journey over the next 12 months.
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
Forgot to add this to this thread so better late than never, I guess.
This was my last hunt on 12-31-2013...a day when it actually got back up into the low 40's for a bit.
I had the 11" DD mounted and walked all over an old park I have been to before looking for new areas to concentrate on in the future.
I did well, found a bunch of clad, a double headed fake Peace dollar that fooled me big time, a wheatie and a very nice Claddah silver ring.
I have said this before but the F70 is so adept at finding targets and at almost any depth no matter what size if I don't find silver or gold on every hunt I am almost disappointed...it is that good.
Wait till I get even better at using this thing, I am still a newb and just starting to discover what amazing abilities it seems to possess.
I messed around with the settings all day, used AT in a tot lot and found some really tiny bits of metal and a few coins, also 4H tones half of the time and I am really getting to like using 2F tones so I used that the rest of the time.
Treasurebone says that 2F setting seems to be bothered less by EMI than the others and at several areas in this park I was able to go to 99 on the sense and raise the threshold all the way up to max at 9 and still hunt relatively easily using 2F.
The problem is at those setting you would not believe the huge amount of signals I was getting and at the depths I was getting them at.
Most were iffy and jumpy and the soil was still frozen a little so I didn't dig any that were super deep unless I got a solid not too jumpy signal and on those few at 10" that were more solid I did find targets deep but they were beaver tail tabs every time.
Don't know why targets sink so deep around here but I actually even dug a couple of zincolns at 6" so this great depth I am getting will come in handy when I return to this park.
When it thaws out around here and I go to sites with less trash and iron I will try this again.
Hitting 8-12" on these settings does not seem to be a problem on the F70 even in DE using that 11" dd coil, even at a little lower sense and thresh settings, and by switching to SL some of them firmed up even more.
I have read that SL on the F70 is pretty darn close to and a precursor to boost on the F75 and I am starting to believe it.
I used SL a lot of the time on this hunt but it does add more noise so I mostly used this to check the deeper signals from time to time.
The F70 can switch between 2 different programs at the push of a button so next time I will set up one program at regular lower and quieter hunting settings and set up program # 2 as a check system with much higher settings and either SL or AT all metal and see if that is an efficient and fast way to figure out the deeper ones accurately.
I bet it will, or I hope it does, anyway.
I have very little experience digging such deep signals but I am looking forward to spring when I will do a lot more of this type of digging.
I plan on getting a new Raptor digger to do it, too, because the regular Lesche just can't scoop the dirt out of holes this deep very efficiently as I would like and just slows me down.
I did turn up those settings a few times but these two targets and a lot of that clad were found at DE, disc on 4, sense about 80, thresh at 0 or 1 and 4H tones.
The Fake, Two-Face Batman dollar was shallow, the ring was easily found at about 5-6" deep.
This was my last hunt on 12-31-2013...a day when it actually got back up into the low 40's for a bit.
I had the 11" DD mounted and walked all over an old park I have been to before looking for new areas to concentrate on in the future.
I did well, found a bunch of clad, a double headed fake Peace dollar that fooled me big time, a wheatie and a very nice Claddah silver ring.
I have said this before but the F70 is so adept at finding targets and at almost any depth no matter what size if I don't find silver or gold on every hunt I am almost disappointed...it is that good.
Wait till I get even better at using this thing, I am still a newb and just starting to discover what amazing abilities it seems to possess.
I messed around with the settings all day, used AT in a tot lot and found some really tiny bits of metal and a few coins, also 4H tones half of the time and I am really getting to like using 2F tones so I used that the rest of the time.
Treasurebone says that 2F setting seems to be bothered less by EMI than the others and at several areas in this park I was able to go to 99 on the sense and raise the threshold all the way up to max at 9 and still hunt relatively easily using 2F.
The problem is at those setting you would not believe the huge amount of signals I was getting and at the depths I was getting them at.
Most were iffy and jumpy and the soil was still frozen a little so I didn't dig any that were super deep unless I got a solid not too jumpy signal and on those few at 10" that were more solid I did find targets deep but they were beaver tail tabs every time.
Don't know why targets sink so deep around here but I actually even dug a couple of zincolns at 6" so this great depth I am getting will come in handy when I return to this park.
When it thaws out around here and I go to sites with less trash and iron I will try this again.
Hitting 8-12" on these settings does not seem to be a problem on the F70 even in DE using that 11" dd coil, even at a little lower sense and thresh settings, and by switching to SL some of them firmed up even more.
I have read that SL on the F70 is pretty darn close to and a precursor to boost on the F75 and I am starting to believe it.
I used SL a lot of the time on this hunt but it does add more noise so I mostly used this to check the deeper signals from time to time.
The F70 can switch between 2 different programs at the push of a button so next time I will set up one program at regular lower and quieter hunting settings and set up program # 2 as a check system with much higher settings and either SL or AT all metal and see if that is an efficient and fast way to figure out the deeper ones accurately.
I bet it will, or I hope it does, anyway.
I have very little experience digging such deep signals but I am looking forward to spring when I will do a lot more of this type of digging.
I plan on getting a new Raptor digger to do it, too, because the regular Lesche just can't scoop the dirt out of holes this deep very efficiently as I would like and just slows me down.
I did turn up those settings a few times but these two targets and a lot of that clad were found at DE, disc on 4, sense about 80, thresh at 0 or 1 and 4H tones.
The Fake, Two-Face Batman dollar was shallow, the ring was easily found at about 5-6" deep.
Attachments
steveg
Elite Member
Digger --
NICE job -- looks like you are really in tune with the F70, ALREADY. Super job!
That sL process is most definitely the "precursor" to the "boost process" on the F75 SE/LTD...got that from the horse's mouth (Dave Johnson, himself). While sL doesn't necessarily give you more depth "in the ground," what it will do is just what you said -- "firm up" the ID on deeper targets a bit. The other thing it will do, is allow you to run an "air gap" -- i.e. the coil up off the ground, and not lose any depth. I have a 10" and a 12" deep quarter in my test garden, and when I was testing the F70, I would find the quarter (I can't remember if I did this with the 10" or the 12", right now, but one of the two), and I would then slowly raise the coil while sweeping, until I lost it. I remember that in dE mode, I could get about 1-2" off the ground, no more, before I'd lose the target. In sL mode, doing the same thing, I could easily get 3-4" off the ground, if not a bit more, before losing the target. While that may not seem like much, it's a BIG DEAL, in my opinion, in that you can hunt over some pretty tall/thick grass, where it's impossible to "scrub the coil" on the ground, and yet still feel confident that the machine is seeing REAL deep...
Steve
NICE job -- looks like you are really in tune with the F70, ALREADY. Super job!
That sL process is most definitely the "precursor" to the "boost process" on the F75 SE/LTD...got that from the horse's mouth (Dave Johnson, himself). While sL doesn't necessarily give you more depth "in the ground," what it will do is just what you said -- "firm up" the ID on deeper targets a bit. The other thing it will do, is allow you to run an "air gap" -- i.e. the coil up off the ground, and not lose any depth. I have a 10" and a 12" deep quarter in my test garden, and when I was testing the F70, I would find the quarter (I can't remember if I did this with the 10" or the 12", right now, but one of the two), and I would then slowly raise the coil while sweeping, until I lost it. I remember that in dE mode, I could get about 1-2" off the ground, no more, before I'd lose the target. In sL mode, doing the same thing, I could easily get 3-4" off the ground, if not a bit more, before losing the target. While that may not seem like much, it's a BIG DEAL, in my opinion, in that you can hunt over some pretty tall/thick grass, where it's impossible to "scrub the coil" on the ground, and yet still feel confident that the machine is seeing REAL deep...
Steve
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
Great to know and thanks for any info or tips you can impart at any time.
By using the 11" DD and these high power settings I am getting scary deep and actually digging targets at close to a foot.
I am now at 2 bars out of 4 on the batteries so less battery power doesn't seem to affect the depth at all to this point.
I still like using the standard 10" elliptical because I just hate pop tops and that coil ID's them better, but I do know you do lose a bit of depth compared to the 11" coil.
The 11" does seem to be smoother and a little quieter on these high power settings, also.
I have not experimented much with extremely high settings using the 10" coil, I am not sure I can even max them out using that one vs. that 11" DD, but at this same park using that 10" coil I did get a one way hit and a solid tone at settings like 80 on sense and thresh at maybe -1 and pinpointed a target at 10" deep although there were never any numbers or indicators on my screen at all on this target at anytime except when using the pinpoint button.
I dug a beaver tail tab at every bit of 10" deep on that one and I was thrilled to do it.
One goal for this year is to figure out how to get the deepest and most accurate readings using the elliptical coil, plus I also still have that 11" and the 5" DD sniper coil to mess around with thanks to a fantastic Christmas gift from Captain Silver...something I will always be grateful for and will dedicate all my deep finds this coming year using those coils to him.
I know that sniper coil works great in the trash in the short time I have already tried it, and I understand depth is pretty awesome with that one too if you have the right settings.
It is now frozen over and extremely cold around here now and the wait to get back out there and hunt when we finally thaw out is gonna kill me but I know the wait will be worth it if I can just manage to live through it.
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
First hunt of 2014 and managed to come away with a neat little find.
Up in the woods again, the only place that isn't frozen over, and I went looking for some more old coins that are here but few and far between.
No coins except a couple of early 60's nickels but I did come across this cool Ronson pocket lighter from the 40's.
Manufacture date on this exact model I narrowed down to between 1939 and 1948 and the ad with this specific one is from 1946.
Story about it here...
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=176267
A sorta dime signal about 70, I was using the 11" DD coil.
Settings were disc at 4, sense was at 99, thresh at 9, SL speed, 2F on the tones.
I set up 2 programs and the other was pretty much the same settings but DE speed which was quieter and switched back and forth a lot.
A little noisy at these high settings, more so using SL, but I was able to hear the solid signals and dig them.
Most of what I dug yesterday was foil an the 20's to mid 30's just in case it might be silver chains or small gold rings, but there was a ton of it because people have been all over these woods camping here since the 20's.
Eventually I raised the disc to 25 and that knocked most of that out.
Going into the negative temp numbers tonight so most open places that are not frozen yet will be after this cold snap.
Next weekend it will be back in the low 40's so I might hit these woods again and see what other cool things I can find.
Up in the woods again, the only place that isn't frozen over, and I went looking for some more old coins that are here but few and far between.
No coins except a couple of early 60's nickels but I did come across this cool Ronson pocket lighter from the 40's.
Manufacture date on this exact model I narrowed down to between 1939 and 1948 and the ad with this specific one is from 1946.
Story about it here...
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=176267
A sorta dime signal about 70, I was using the 11" DD coil.
Settings were disc at 4, sense was at 99, thresh at 9, SL speed, 2F on the tones.
I set up 2 programs and the other was pretty much the same settings but DE speed which was quieter and switched back and forth a lot.
A little noisy at these high settings, more so using SL, but I was able to hear the solid signals and dig them.
Most of what I dug yesterday was foil an the 20's to mid 30's just in case it might be silver chains or small gold rings, but there was a ton of it because people have been all over these woods camping here since the 20's.
Eventually I raised the disc to 25 and that knocked most of that out.
Going into the negative temp numbers tonight so most open places that are not frozen yet will be after this cold snap.
Next weekend it will be back in the low 40's so I might hit these woods again and see what other cool things I can find.
Attachments
Captain Silver
Elite Member
That's a cool find...probably get it to work, too.
Skwerly
Elite Member
holy cow! i haven't thought of ronson for ages! that's a neat old lighter, right there.
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
In the 40's this thing cost about $65-$70 in 2014 dollars.
Nice coin for a lighter.
Froze up now, but maybe an oil bath for awhile will loosen it up.
Skwerly
Elite Member
yea, and maybe a dunk in white vinegar for a while to take off some of the rust if there's any. that thing is super neat.
Im blown away at how Hot u are running the 70 already. I tried running my 75 hot for a while but was just to much for me. Im finding that 50 to 75 sens with 9 disc 3tone is working for me and still dig DEEP DEEP sometimes. Idk I just like the quite ride but in future gonna crank her bak up there like u and captain silver Btw im getting the 10'' round coil for the 75 as well as soon as I find a sponser on here that sells them.In my ground the round coils seem to be deeper and id better but more test needs to b done and another reason im getting the 10'' is bec ause u said ur gonna rock it this year and I may be able to learn a thing r 2 from ya like I have in past. Bart says he doesn't kno when he will be getting any.
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
I still have the mindset that more power is deeper but in the case of these 2 that actually might not be so true.
Turning them down might be a little better according to mudpuppy on Findmall and a few other guys.
Mud usually hunts in DP tones, thresh at -2 or -3 and sense at somewhere near 50 because he is also a jewelry hunter and this works for him in his parks.
A few others tried these settings and are still getting major depth.
That much power might just be giving me false signals or worse covering up some good ones but I don't know for sure and I seem to be finding some good stuff when I do turn it up like this.
Most of the time I don't go much over 80 on the sense and keep the thresh down closer to between 1 and 4 if I can, but I am still in the messing around and experimenting stage.
One day I will figure out the precise settings that will be optimum but for now I am just having fun.
I can say that there was no way I could get near these max settings with the standard elliptical coil.
The 11"DD is smother and handles it better but all that depends on the site, too, and I have not tried both at all the different sites I hunt, either.
I can also tell you I did get signals at one site that seemed solid and repeatable and the type I would normally dig with the DD at these max settings, but the soil was frozen and I couldn't dig them.
Using the pinpoint button to get depth I saw numbers like 12 and 14 inches.
That is scary deep to me, but I will leave those to the spring and try digging those at sites that actually might have something good down that deep.
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
In order to learn more about the F70 and how to hunt at optimum levels I have been searching for all the info I can while being stuck inside due to the cold weather.
Over on Nasa Tom's website and forum there is so much information and scientific data that it is startling.
He seems to know his stuff, and I can't wait to get out there and try some of this to see what works and what doesn't for me and my sites.
Here are some links to some great reading material, and below I will post some of the highlights and techniques that seem to be pretty important in my effort to get the best out of my F70.
I have tried none of this...yet, but I will and I will report back on my impressions.
http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,4402,page=10
http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,2251
http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,2377,45294
All of his tests are done using the F75 LTD, but according to him because the F75 and the F70 models, (along with the T2), are all built using the same "architecture", so pretty much most everything will relate to all these different models and platforms, and more importantly for my uses, will transfer over to the F70.
A topic well worth revisiting. F1 - F7 EMI mitigation.
I know I have touched on this topic before......but now, I have much more amplifying information. I know I should utilize a U.S. $1 Type-1 gold coin.....as this is the perfect resonance (pinnacle performance) of the F75/LTD......yet, I used a common clad dime for better audience understanding.
Taking a U.S. clad dime to a area that presents near perfect conditions for testing. Here is the importance of Freq Shift (F1 - F7) .... so as to achieve maximum performance. At a local park, , , burying the dime @12"......in sanatized dirt........and virtually no EMI presence......the F75 will (just barely) detect this dime. Changing the frequency from F1 through F7........no EMI change of status (no audible EMI present on any channel).......... and also no change in performance of 12" dime detection with F75 LTD. The CZ-3D will also detect this dime with zero problems.
Moving 75-feet away from this location......where EMI is "moderate"......and a huge (and measureable) delta occurs. With the dime buried at only 8"...... a dramatic incursion ensued. Selecting the BEST frequency that provides the least EMI......and this dime can be detected with ease......AND this is to include over half-a-foot of air-gap over the ground. Yes.....this is to say that the coil is 6"-plus inches above the ground PLUS the 8" that the dime is buried. A total of 14"-plus inches between coil and dime.
Now........Selecting a different frequency that provides/presents a noticable amount of EMI (and this is NOT the worst channel/freq selection; rather, a 'middle-of-the-road' selection).......and the detection of this 8" dime is COMPLETELY undetectable. Here...........The CZ-3D still poses extreme audible stability.........absolutely no idea there is any form of EMI what-so-ever....BUT, BUT, BUT......the CZ will only detect this dime to 10". This is categorized as the most dangerous type of (electronic related) hunting......because the operator has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA the unit is operating at a reduced performance level. Unsuspected and undetected/unknowing reduced performance. The operator would NEVER know it; subsequently, never suspect any form of performance reduction.
THE BEST WAY TO REDUCE EMI:
Place F75 in all-metal mode with max Sens ('99'). Hold coil about a foot above the ground.....very still......and perfectly parallel with the ground. Select F1 through F7.........one at a time...... and listen to each channel/freq for about 4-5 seconds. Find the one freq/channel that provides the least interference. Now you can switch back over to the ID mode......and.....yes......this Freq/channel selection will stay the same whilst switching over to the ID mode. If you are running the unit 'wide open'....and you still are encountering EMI..... you can change Disc to a setting of '5'. There is a huge difference between Disc '4'....and Disc '5'. You should not have to increase Disc to higher numbers. If EMI is still present.... you now can start to drop Sens .... until EMI is gone. Remember; you are already on the best possible F1 through F7 Freq/channel selection...and must employ other methods so as to reduce EMI... if it is still present.
If you look at your LCD depth bar-graph......and EMI is causing it to jump all the way into the middle bar-graph (medium strength signal) ............you will only be able to detect targets that are (at least) as strong/powerful.....OR STRONGER (shallower) as that middle bar-graph. This is also to say that......if you want to get rid of audible EMI......you would then be required to reduce Sensitivity to the point where targets in that middle bar-graph (and deeper targets)... would no longer be detected. What you are doing is.....reducing the sensitivity of the detector to 'just below' the signal strength of the EMI. Said differently; If EMI is so strong......that this specific EMI "looks like" a 7" deep target................then the detector will only be capable of detecting targets up to 7" deep....and no deeper... in this hunting area.
Some of the best days to hunt.....as far as EMI is concerned......is at the very end of a hard rain........or shortly after a hard rain......as this is what washes the salts off of nearby powerlines.
If you are 'beating' an old/hunted-out area again.......and you suddenly learn that you are finding a lot more targets........it may very well be that you are encountering less EMI on this specific day.
I can only stress the level of importance of EMI mitigation. USE THAT F1 THROUGH F7 OPTION.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some excerpts on hunting in iron fields....
With F-75 Disc on '6' and 'monotone',,,,,,.....,,,,,, the moment you invoke a different tone option; Say 2-tone, 3-tone, 4-tone, etc.... the audio portion of the Disc, ....even though Disc is set on '6'...... will instantly become a Disc setting of '15'. What does this mean? = Any target that is between a Disc level of "6 thru 15" will now audibly report as a "Low Tone" (iron tone). BIG PROBLEM for a multiplicity of reasoning's. Now, any target that is ABOVE a "15" (VDI reading)... MIGHT report a higher tone,,,, (tone freq depending on what tone option is invoked). -------Most folks do not dig iron. And most folks WILL miss masked non-ferrous targets when multi-tones are selected.
Say; you have a silver dime and a nail at a handful of inches deep. The two targets are close enough to each other.... and laying in such a fashion so as to give you a VDI ID of...say; '13'. Let's say your F-75 Discrimination is on a setting of '6'.
1. If you are in '1' tone (monotone).... the F-75 will give you a good audio response to the target. (((You will most probably recover the target))).
2. Say the F-75 is in 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H tone options etc.....). Now......... the F-75 will respond with a audio response that most detectorists will NOT dig/recover. The F-75 will report a 'iron' tone (the lowest sounding audio tone). The non-ferrous silver target will most likely NOT be recovered....... even though most all nails will discriminate out at a Disc setting of '6'.
THIS IS BECAUSE; When 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H etc.....) is selected = ANY target that results in a VDI ID reading of '15' or below....will report as a 'iron' low-tone. Most folks will NOT recover iron tones.
On both the T-2 & F-75..... running a higher Sens gain in the trash (especially iron) presents a MUCH enhanced resolution on non-ferrous targets amongst iron. This is a paradoxical contradiction; what is....... but should NEVER be. Next time you find a non-ferrous target amongst high iron trash concentration (with high Sens settings)....... drop the Sens and see what happens. The non-ferrous target audio resolution will decrease.......possibly even disappear completely (depends how badly masked the non-Fe target is). The more masking... the HIGHER the Sens needs to be on the T-2/F-75. ((( This is not a typo )))!
On the F-75 (and T-2), the VDI, audio tone-ID, and Disc are completely independent of each other. If anything, the audio ID vs. the Disc setting more closely parallel each other, yet still differ. This electronic design architect is deliberate..... and is a attribute that you will witness as you accrue some field experience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
F-75 Peak Performance - Disc '6' & mandatory 'monotone' relic hunting justification
When the F-75 is placed on a Disc setting of '6' and 'monotone'; This set-up config allows (under MOST circumstances) the best iron see-thru ability..... in locating non-ferrous targets in areas that are loaded with ferrous (usually nails) environments. The older the site....... the more nails will be present; subsequently, the more good targets will be masked. Most detectors will 'shut-down' under these scenarios. The F-75 (& T-2) are the only detectors currently available on the market that begins to tackle this type of (extremely common) scenario.... with some 'unmasking' success.
.... With F-75 Disc on '6' and 'monotone',,,,,,.....,,,,,, the moment you invoke a different tone option; Say 2-tone, 3-tone, 4-tone, etc.... the audio portion of the Disc, ....even though Disc is set on '6'...... will instantly become a Disc setting of '15'. What does this mean? = Any target that is between a Disc level of "6 thru 15" will now audibly report as a "Low Tone" (iron tone). BIG PROBLEM for a multiplicity of reasonings. Now, any target that is ABOVE a "15" (VDI reading)... MIGHT report a higher tone,,,, (tone freq depending on what tone option is invoked). -------Most folks do not dig iron. And most folks WILL miss masked non-ferrous targets when multitones are selected. Said differently via utilization of a "extremely common occurrence" example;
----- Recently, I recovered a badly masked Barber dime. When I (first) detected this severely handicapped dime, the F-75 was in 'monotone', Disc '6', 'PF' and Sens on '99'. In monotone, the dime AUDIBLY sounded good. (( I was going to dig this target )). The VDI was terrible - would/could NOT lock on to anything close to resembling a highly conductive piece of silver. I then invoked 2-tone..... leaving ALL other settings alone. Now.... the dime was constantly audibly reporting as low-tone (iron-tone).....even as I rotated my body around target. The VDI was jumping all over the board. mostly in the iron ID range. I made the decision to NOT recover the target, primarily due to low iron-tone..... and walked away. Several hours later, I decided to go back and recover this target (and MANY other similar responding targets)..... with F-75 back in 'monotone'. Results = One 2" nail, two 1/2" long nails..... and one 1893 'O' Barber dime. Yep; MOSTLY iron, but certainly not ALL iron. The 2-tone mode did not lie. Justification = The composite of the 4 targets (3 nails & one dime) were higher in conductivity than any one of the nails individually...... but TOTAL conductive composite was HIGHER than any nail (or combination of nails) would have cumulatively registered. Because I (and the detector) knew that the detected target (suspected co-locate/composite of multiple targets under coil) were higher than the conductivity of most nails... yet STILL ID'd in the 'Fe/iron' range...... this target was needing recovery. Good thing! Selecting any other tone option..... and the detector would audibly report the composite as "low-tone/iron-tone". Yes, the F-75 will still unmask more non-ferrous targets than other detectors if 2-tone or multiple tones are selected; however, a substantially greater level of unmasking performance can be ascertained when unit is placed in 'monotone'. ((( The T-2 with a Disc setting of '21' is the exact same thing as all of the info above ))). Having the ability to adjust how MUCH iron you choose to discriminate.is a major attribute. Small iron items.. such as nails will Disc out at a fairly low iron Disc range.
This is Approx 10% of F-75's capabilities.
In addendum:
#1 On both the T-2 & F-75..... running a higher Sens gain in the trash (especially iron) presents a MUCH enhanced resolution on non-ferrous targets amongst iron. This is a paradoxical contradiction; what is....... but should NEVER be. Next time you find a non-ferrous target amongst high iron trash concentration (with high Sens settings)....... drop the Sens and see what happens. The non-ferrous target audio resolution will decrease.......possibly even disappear completely (depends how badly masked the non-Fe target is). The more masking... the HIGHER the Sens needs to be on the T-2/F-75. ((( This is not a typo )))!
#2 The mandatory "monotone" instructions is primarily for iron nail pits. Long description:
--- If a non-ferrous target is co-located in very close proximity to iron/multi-iron scenario.......,,,,,,,, then......... as you rotate your body around the composite target; the audio will be bouncing between all of the different tones (same with VDI)...with each tone being exceptionally short in duration. You may even encounter a multi-tone audible reporting in ONE sweep of the coil !!! ..... Surely enough to confuse most detectorists into a NON-recovery decision..... as the target is audibly confusing,,, and is not a 'clean' or "solid" repeatable sounding target. ((( Most masked targets are not 'clean' audio targets ))). Each of the multi-tones reporting will be audibly shorter in duration. Kind of a "ratty" sounding/bouncing signal. NOW..... when monotone is selected/invoked,,,,,, this SAME composite target(s) will audibly report a LONGER duration SINGLE-tone audible presentation (instead of several shorter-in-length different tones in one sweep of the coil)..... that will less-likely confuse the operator ..... and authorize the operator to make a much better profiling of the composite target audio signature ..... with the end resultant being a more intelligible target-recovery decision from less audible fatigue. Tech Terms; A better signal-to-hull emitter correlation. I'd rather hear ONE "longer" monotone vs. several shorter multi-tones in rapid succession.in a single coil sweep. NOW....... IMAGINE sweeping the coil in a iron nail pit with 2 or 3 or ---- especially 4 tones selected. A hill-billy jug band!!! Try and make non-fatigued intelligent audio decisions under this common scenario! The VDI is extremely "jumpy" in iron pits.... AND SO WOULD BE THE MULTI-TONES!!! ...... At least,,,, in monotone,,,,, as the VDI is presenting extreme variances .... the one monotone will be CONSTANT and STABLE......even as the conductivity of the multi-target scenario varies dramatically ........ even with only one sweep of the coil.
#3 On CZ-3D.... in the 'enhanced' mode; Nearly ALL old coins.... and new coins,,,,, will report as "hi-tone". On the F-75 & T-2, you MUST invoke 4-tone...... which will then cause the OLD coins to audibly report in the 3rd highest tone region (vs. mid-tone)...... and the new coins will remain in THE highest tone. If you select 3-tone on T-2/F-75.... only the NEW coins will report as high-tone.... and SOME of the older coins might report as high tone. Most of the older coins would then audibly report as mid-tone (just like the alum soda tabs).
#4 If you run Disc on 0-4 on the F-75..... all nails will report as good targets in monotone. With F-75 Disc on '6'..... MOST (not all) nails will report as a snap-crackle-pop....tick-click (not a solid audio); which, in turn..... can be ignored. Axe heads, hammers, gun barrels and other large iron targets will give a good audio with Disc on '6' on the F-75. .... But, MOST fields we hunt are not loaded with axe heads, gun barrels and hammers.
#5 The F-75/T-2 have a tendency to "up-average" non-ferrous target ID numbers when near disintegrated iron or bad minerals. VERY common occurrence. It is partial 'silent masking' coupled with conductive target response. I have several documented experiences exactly relating to this.
+++ Let's say that you detect a slightly masked silver dime. Normally (without being masked) it would VDI at '71'. But now..... it's slightly masked. It may now VDI at '89'..... a somewhat "up-averaging" VDI common resultant. In both cases, the detector reports "hi-tone". No problems yet.
A slightly corroded buffalo nickel will VDI at '28' in open air...and audibly report as a 'hi-tone'. Now....... with this same nickel in the dirt ... in a natural setting and partially masked..... IT TOO will "up-average" (just like the silver dime) ,,,, to,,, say = VDI '47'. Hmmmmmm, now the nickel 'looks' like a soda tab to the detector...and the unit will now report the slightly masked nickel as a mid-tone. ((( All of this holds true for medium conductivity items...such as relics & gold jewelry ))).
....If you are recovering Mercury dimes at (say) the 11" depth strata...... You may want to ALSO recover the 11" depth strata mid-tones.... as many of these will be the corresponding era Buffalo nickels.
The T-2 & F-75 electronic design architect is notorious for "Up-Averaging" non-ferrous targets in the presence of iron & iron oxides. Not a problem, considering other single freq units would remain completely silent.
ALL detectors have a difficult time ID'ing nickels. CZ's do the best ID job, but are not immune to EASILY mis-ID'ing nickels.
#6 All-Metal mode is the deepest mode; HOWEVER, coin-sized objects will still ID to depths of only 12" or so. The depth at which a target will properly ID in the ID mode..... is the same depth it will properly ID in the AM mode (F-75 & T-2). Yes, targets will audibly report to greater depths in the AM mode...... but the VDI screen will remain blank on the deeper targets. Now,,,,,,, that being said...... IF you are a extremely seasoned hunter...you can take advantage of these greater (no VDI) deeper depths. If you can audibly 'profile' deep/weak targets, you are in for some serious enjoyment. Can you tell the difference between a small target that is shallow, , , such as a lead .22 Short 29Gr rimfire projectile at 4" deep vs. a U.S. nickel at 12" depth. These are both non-ferrous targets. ....... And can you tell the difference between a 2-Penny nail at 7" vs. a Wheat penny at 12". This latter example... is the MOST common and MOST important test for the astute detectorist,,,, as it poses the greatest challenge with the most significant, rewarding resultant. Of note; Dinosaurs can be miles beneath the Earths surface. Egyptian sunken cities are dozens of feet deep........ thusly; the 100 year-old coins we wish to find are a foot or two deep.
NOW.......... that being said. (((( If you are in a nail infested area, and you do NOT audibly fatigue easily = = = )))) IF, IF, IF, you can handle a lot of noise.... and the detector can handle (not EMI plagued) a Disc setting of '0' and a Sens setting of '99'....then hunt in 2, 3, 4 tones (your choice),,, hunting for the "deepies". YES.....the detector will mask some targets in this audio selection config (ie 2, 3, 4 tones are selected) because any (heavily masked) target that VDI ID's as a '15' or below will present a 'iron' audio response (as so stated in example above),,,,, BUT, the trade-off is; the F-75 will go deeper just by virtue of the Disc setting being '4' or below (especially '0').
Soooooooo, I am saying (by this set-up config) = MORE MASKING, BUT GREATER DEPTH. Hmmmmmmmm... trade-off. Which one does better? Disc '6' & monotone???? or Disc '0' and multi-tone???? The answer is: They BOTH do!!!!!!!!!
I am saying; HUNT the area in Disc '6' & monotone...... and perform all of the 'unmasking' that you can. THEN hunt in Disc '0' and a tone-option of your choice.... going for all the deepies.
NO...... you can not have both at the same time.
In theory,,,,,,, in an ideal world; Targets are spaced far enough apart so as to be single, solo targets....... not tilted, not near hot rocks, not near iron, no dirt mineralization etc....... This would allow the detector to ID targets with greatest accuracy. HOWEVER; This is not reality ..... not the real world. Fact of the matter is; Nearly all targets are somewhat/somehow handicapped. First; as a good target (say a coin) is moved closer to any other metallic object, a multiplicity of problems are introduced to the detector. Now add dirt mineralization, tilt the coin, add a hot rock or two, etc..... WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD! This is genuinely what we contend with as detectorists and detector engineers. How do you correct and compensate for infinite unpredictable variables?! Secondly; What may be categorized and classified as "these two targets are too close to each other" to Brand 'A' detector & coil Assy. may present different results to Brand 'B' detector & coil Assy. The extremely enhanced adjacent target separation characteristics afforded by a elliptical Double D coil presents just exactly such. A coin and a pull-tab... both at a 6" depth....... and adjacently separated by 6", poses a severe problem to a 10.5" concentric coil,,,,, but does not even approach "problem" status to a 11" elliptical DD coil.
When absolute maximum overdriven performance is desired:
1) Starting point = Factory Preset and Ground Balance.
2) Hold coil parallel to ground.... and at a height (approx) 8" above the ground. Do not tilt the coil upward. Increase Sens to '99' and verify detector is audibly stable. This is the FIRST step. (((Shut down your intents if you cannot ascertain stability with Sens on '99'))).
3) Next....... IF no EMI is encountered with '99' Sens........ THEN you may start to bring Disc down. Start with Disc '6'.
4) IF the detector is still EMI stable.... see what happens to EMI stability.... by lowering Disc BELOW '5'. '5' is not the magic number.... but '4' is. Going to a Disc setting of '4' is where sensitivity receives yet another boost. (((And USUALLY............... when you are at a Disc of '4' ... and ESPECIALLY lower... is where multitone option is virtually required))). Set Disc on '4' and verify detector remains audibly stable.
5) Now, Drop Disc to '3'... then '2'... then '1'... then ultimately '0'.. verifying audio stability is still retained.
6) Now select JE mode and verify detector remains audibly quiet.
((( IF .... during any of these steps, the detector becomes audibly 'chattery' .... you have electrical interference (EMI).... and must back-up in procedure,,,,, until you re-find electrical stability,,,,......,,,,,,, and these are the settings you should hunt with ))).
7) Start sweeping the coil..... with the coil remaining 8" above the ground,,,, and verify detector remains audibly stable.
8) Start lowering the coil closer to the ground while continuing to sweep....and verify detector remains audibly stable. If you manage to get the coil all the way down onto the ground while sweeping..... and the detector is audibly stable,,,,, you are home-free!!!!... and have the most powerful relic detector currently on the market. Remember, many relics are very low conductors (in the 'foil' range).
((( IF..... while lowering the coil to the ground as you are sweeping,,,,, and the detector THEN becomes audibly unstable..... you have ground interference ... most probably from high volumes of tiny flakes of rust/iron (a VERY common dirt occurrence)..... which then, you must back out of the JE mode ))).
9) It is your choice for 'tone options'.
I have YET to be able to handle a nail infested site with the detector in monotone.... and a Disc setting of '0'. This means that you hear absolutely everything.
It is not so much that a DE would over-engineer a detector to be audibly unintelligible; it's more a 'sensitivity function' of a gold prospecting capable unit..... coupled with a extremely fast microprocessor/clockspeed and very tight electromagnetic footprint emanating from the coil. Little flecks of iron will cause this particular detector set (F-75 & T-2) to sound electromagnetically unstable. On a recent hunt, I (as usual) was overdriving the F-75...and, in one area, it became electrically unstable (((so I thought))). Coil in the air.... and unit was stable. Coil on the ground and not moving.... and unit was mostly stable. Sweeping coil.... and EMI interference ensued. Hmmmmm....... let's dig some of these so-called "chatters". Resultant: About every 2" or 3"..... I was finding #2 lead shot from a shotgun.... at a depth of approx 1.5". I quit recovering them once I had about a dozen in my hand. The small spot of land that I recovered/removed these small BB's.... suddenly had no 'electrical chatter' in this one localized location of coil-sweep. Exterior of this sans spot,,,,, the electrical chatter resumed. I knew I was 'overdriving' the F-75.... and decided to drop the Sens to a setting of '70'..... and the perceived electrical chatter (the BB-shot).... as coil was being swept.... suddenly vanished. I had desensitized the detector enough to no longer detect these small targets,,,, and the unit became stable again. Masking was still taking place though. It hurts me to drop Sens to lower levels; however, I could ascertain a more stable/intelligible unit and could then somewhat "hunt". (Targets beneath these BB's are going to be partially or completely "masked"winking smiley.
Another known engineering fact is that a single freq unit has the ability to handle Fe better than multi-freq units. Both types of units are still blinded (masked & silent masked) by iron,,,,, but the single freq units can ID iron with better accuracy, less falsing.... and a hair-splitting Disc setting is more ascertainable with a single freq unit.
Something worth mentioning; in reference to the CZ (and nearly all other units). When the coil is passed over a target (or multi-target co-locate scenario), the reporting circuitry will remain silent. When peak signal strength is ascertained, the detector reporting circuitry will STILL remain silent. When the electronics see the received signal strength 'start' to decay (decrease), then ....and only then, will the detector take a "best-guess" and report a target & ID. Keep in mind..... if multiple targets are under the coil at the same time, these types of detectors will wait until the largest COMPOSITE signal strength (only one) is achieved. And now...... the different animals; the T-2 & F-75. Their electronics and audio will 'fire' on ANY target,,,,, and take multiple "snap-shots" and report each one. Hence; the F-75 & T-2 will audibly sound very 'noisy'. Said differently: Let's say the dirt is Sans.... except for one single coin target at several inches deep. At a normal sweep-rate,,,,, the F-75 & T-2 will 'fire' many many many times (dictated by micro-processor clock speed) on the coin..... and report each 'firing' individually...... BUT; what do your human ears hear/register? It just simply sounds like one continuous "beep" to you. It's not! Now..... pass your coil over many extremely close (and very small) co-located targets with 75/2 and see if your brain can process at the same speed of the 75/2. You will also notice the VDI jumping radically. Do you think the VDI is incorrect!!!??? These steroiditic detectors (unfortunately) are mentally fatiguing......... not because of the detector,,,,, but due to our ears clock-speed. The CZ's are a MUCH smoother, MUCH better sounding unit..... and SO much easier to detect/hunt with. BUT, they can be quite blind (easily masked) and can close doors....... where the 75's/2's can re-open hunted-out sites with tremendous success. especially with a slower coil sweep-speed in hi trash areas. ----Food for thought.
Happy Intelligent Hunting!
Thomas J. Dankowski
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another post about tones...
F-75 BETTERING YOUR PERFORMANCE & UNDERSTANDING
On the F-75 (and T-2) .... by invoking the '4H' tone option..... the unit will sound very similar (audibly) to the 4-tones of a CZ-3D/CZ-70. And ONLY in this 4/4H mode ... it will then perform in a very similar fashion to the CZ-3D in respect to ..... specifically; "OLD COINS" with one small exception. Many folks are "old coins" hunters; and the 4/4H tone option is specifically targeted to aid them in the recovery of old coins that would otherwise audibly report as a trash tone (mid-tone). By invoking/selecting the 4-tone option (or 4H) some unique things happen. The following is a INCOMPLETE list of coins that will (now) ID audibly as the 3rd highest tone (a separate tone that is just below the highest tone the F-75/T-2 produces):
Many silver Half-Dimes
All silver 3-Cent Trimes
Many 'tilted' silver dimes & quarters and copper coins
Many 'partially masked' silver & copper coins
All Indian Head pennies
All Flying Eagle Cents
Many Half Cents
All U.S. $5.00 gold Half-Eagle pieces
Many coins 'on edge'
Many tokens
All of these items will audibly ID as a mid-tone (trash tone just like aluminum trash) if 3 or 3H tone option is invoked. By invoking 4 or 4H all of these aforementioned targets will audibly report HIGHER than a mid-tone. sounding almost as high as the high-tone.yet MOST of the aluminum trash will still report as a mid-tone/trash-tone whilst in 4 or 4H tone option. As far as the small exception in reference to the CZ-3D all of the aforementioned targets will ID as the highest tone on the 3D as long as the Enhance mode is invoked, with most aluminum trash still reporting as a mid-tone/trash-tone. The conductivity of yesteryears coins are different as compared to modern coinage; hence the 4/4H tone option on the F-75/T-2 and the Enhance mode on the CZ-3D. To date, all other manufacturers detectors do NOT have this option.
On the F-75 (and T-2), the VDI, audio tone-ID, and Disc are completely independent of each other. If anything, the audio ID vs. the Disc setting more closely parallel each other, yet still differ. This electronic design architect is deliberate..... and is a attribute that you will witness as you accrue some field experience.
Try this experiment, time permitting.. in a few different locations (different dirt scenario/resultants). Place Disc on a setting of '0' (zero). Find/detect a few different old-generation nails in their natural dirt setting. You will see them ID as say: '10' & '13' & '11'. Now..... place Disc on '7' and watch them completely disappear!!!..... both audibly and VDI.
__Another case-in-point --- recent experience/example;
I had been detecting a parcel of land in Sanford, FL for nearly 2 years with the F-75. For very specific testing reasons, I have always kept the Disc on a setting of '10' for this specific site ONLY. (Normally, I run Disc on 6 or lower). This parcel of property was moderately heavy with iron trash. I removed ALL non-ferrous targets out of this area with F-75..... to the best of my (and F-75's) ability at a Disc setting of 10. -----Now...... my testing would ensue. I now (finally) dropped Disc to a setting of '6' ((( been waiting to do this for a LONG time ))). MANY more non-ferrous targets came to light. The most noteworthy educational target was a fairly worn 1963 silver Roosevelt dime at a measured 6" depth. Out of the ground...... It ID'd as a continous '70'. In the ground, it ID'd as a 'bouncer'........ VDI jumping from 46 to 97 AND DEPTH WAS READING 11". In 'monotone', the audio was fairly clean and solid. Invoking 4H tones.... and the target audibly ID'd as a moderately solid/somewhat repeatable 3rd highest 'zinc' tone (what would be catagorized as CZ-70 'relic' tone). If I put the F-75 into 3 or 3H tone option..... the dime would ID as a mid-tone/aluminum soda-tab trash tone. This is somewhat unimportant....and not nearly as important as the following info.... prior to recovery:
When I first detected this target (1963 silver dime)..... First, I was surprised that I had missed this specific non-ferrous target (and many other non-ferrous targets). Second, BEFORE I even thought of digging this target...... I flipped the Discrim back to '10' and found my primary answer. The dime completely disappeared. NO audio response.....and no VDI. Dropping the Disc down to '6' again...... and the silver dime NOW was bouncing again on the VDI between 46 to 97. How and Why would this VDI 46-to-97 non-ferrous target be Disc'd out at a Disc setting of '10' ???? When I first attempted recovery of this target, I dug a 8" x 8" x 8" cube of soil/plug. I pulled the plug out of the ground and flipped it over. Because the target was reading 11" deep.... I had some certainty that the 8"-cube plug did not contain the target; subsequently resulting in my 'dunking' the coil down to the bottom of the hole....... only to find no target. Then I swept the coil over the up-side-down plug I just pulled from the ground...... and found the target only 2" deep from the bottom side of the plug (6 deep from the grass-side of the plug). I scraped away the dirt until I found a silver dime..... and could see the impression of the dime in the dirt at the 6" depth strata. The F-75 was completely wrong on the ID and also completely wrong on the 11" depth reading. Hmmmmmmm. Not happy and needing definitive resolution acquisition....."WHY" this happened. I proceeded to rapidly 'shave' the dirt plug from the bottom side... at approx 1/16" increments .... utilizing 20 lbs test monofilament fishing line until I found the answer; a blood spot in the soil (from a COMPLETELY decomposed small nail) at the 4" depth strata..... partially masking the dime. ........This validates the independence of VDI vs. audio ID vs. Disc setting. It also validates EM signal attenuation via the iron oxide blood spot..... and why the 6" deep dime registered as 11" deep. Good thing the dime was not an inch deeper (7" deep)...... or the masking blood spot was not 1" shallower!
The F-75 was incorrect about ID and depth. That's okay..... as the Explorer completely 'nulled' over this target..... the Coin$trike was silently masked with no audio at all..... and the CZ was iron-falsing with high-tone/low-tone bounces.... very indicative of what 90-Deg. bent nails do to a CZ. The only detector that prompted me to dig this target was the F-75. It reported the most and was confused the least.and the detector is not to blame, as there were interference producing culprits under the coil. The least amount of filters utilized in the detector. and lower Disc settings most always provide the best raw data and unmasking capabilities.
Many times, I have witnessed a non-ferrous target or coin (IH pennies, Ag dimes) report nothing at all (Disc'd out) with a Disc setting of '8' on the F-75 due to partial masking. Subsequently, dropping the Disc to '6'..... and these coins now suddenly VDI'd as severe VDI spectrum bouncers....bouncing between say; 11 all the way up to the high 90's. Other detectors would just simply report iron. or remain completeley silent (silent masking).
Another somewhat similar phenomenon/example:
Say; you have a silver dime and a non-oxidized nail in very close proximity (nearly touching) at a handful of inches deep. The two targets are close enough to each other.... and laying in such a fashion so as to give you a VDI ID of...say; '13' (a higher ID than what most nails will ID.. but still within the iron ID range). Let's say your F-75 Discrimination is on a setting of '6'.
1. If you are in '1' tone (monotone).... the F-75 will give you a good audio response to the target.. regardless of what the VDI is indicating. Since you are in 1-tone (monotone) there is no tone-ID per-se. (((You will most probably recover the target))).
2. Now.. say the F-75 is in 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H tone options etc.....). And NOW......... the F-75 will respond with a tone audio response that most detectorists will NOT dig/recover. The F-75 will report a 'iron' tone (the lowest sounding audio tone). The non-ferrous silver target will most likely NOT be recovered....... even though most all nails will discriminate out at a Disc setting of '6'.
THIS IS BECAUSE; When 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H etc.....) is selected = ANY target that results in a VDI ID reading of '15' or below....will report as a 'iron' LOW-tone. Most folks will NOT recover iron tones. Especially in nail infested areas.
Conclusively:
In situations like this..... COMPLETELY ignore the VDI. Rotate your body around the target until you have the best/most clear audio report. ((( This is usually best performed in monotone ))). NOW...... and only NOW,,,,, you may look at the VDI,,,, but for a distant secondary data input. You should already know (at this point) that you will/will not recover this target.
..... Also at this point, you may want to play with a interesting geophysics iron hysteresis, permeability and magnetism phenomenon; At the point of 'Max Q' audio resolution (where you acquire the cleanest/best audio response) on a partially masked target...... start rotating your body AWAY from this Max Q point whilst sweeping coil from side-to-side, directly over the suspected good targetwith your body encircling the target. You will notice that when you start rotating deeper into the iron masking culprit .... you will witness the VDI numbers climb very high,,,,, until you rotate far enough out of detectability of the non-ferrous target. and too deep into the iron target. Audibly, the signal will sound very ratty....,,,,, just prior to complete loss of the non-ferrous 'good' target. Iron masking does weird things! USUALLY.. oxides of iron in close proximity of a non-ferrous target will cause the VDI to up-average on the non-ferrous target of interest.. and solid iron objects that are NOT rusted will cause a VDI down-averaging effect when a co-located non-ferrous & ferrous (coin & nail combo) is detected. BUT, since iron objects nearly always rust/oxidize you may have the solid iron object with all of its associated rust oxide in concert with the non-ferrous target you wish to detect.. presenting a wide array of resultants. The SIZE of the solid (remaining) iron object vs. the AMOUNT of surrounding oxides dictates the resultant.
NOW all of the above being said; Invoking a Disc of 0 and a (required) multi-tone option of your choice (I prefer 4-tones). and hunting iron infested areas.. if you can put up with all of the incredible iron-tone reporting audio fatigue, , , , your unmasking resultant can be phenomenal. Rightfully so; most folks cannot handle this incredibly audio fatiguing set-up; hence, my lack of focus on this style/type of hunting. This is a whole different chapter (at some later time). and is for you to discover! ((( Most folks can handle a Monotone & Disc 6 setting which causes most nails to snap, crackle, pop.. and any audio report that has audio length to it. a elongated audio report. is worth investigating ))).
SUMMATION/CONCLUSION: Severely Fe masked coins and other non-ferrous targets can do VERY weird things to the detector (especially ID circuitry)...... and USUALLY..... MOSTLY in the fashion of VDI "UP-AVERAGING" (but never a guarantee)! -Welcome to the world of infinite variables!!!
Happy Intelligent Hunting,
Thomas J. Dankowski
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, Digger27 back again...
I have learned than when you kick the upper F series detectors down past 5 on the sense into the 0-4 range there is a large boost in sensitivity...the lower you go the more you will get with 0 being the most sensitive.
Mudpuppy wondered why he was getting so deep with sense at between 50 and 60, thresh at -2 or -3 and I think DE speed in DP tones.
His disc is usually set around 1 and that huge sensitivity boost you get between 0-4 on disc is why.
Transmit power stays the same through all of this but there is a big boost in sensitivity at those 4 or under disc settings.
I have also learned in reading a ton that on some targets, especially the deep ones or some that are masked, you need to forget about anything you see on the screen and just listen for that good tone...especially a repeating tone.
An effect called "up averaging" and another called "down averaging" might come into play and just going by the VDI numbers good targets can be missed.
Luckily I am a "Tone guy" first and foremost and I guess I have to give credit to the many hours spent with my Tesoros and also the F2 for that.
IBdiggin over on Findmall, (IMdiggin over here), learned and knows this lesson well...
I can understand why so many that have tried these sensitive F series detectors and gave up thinking they were an unintelligible mess of noise.
Some even go as far as to knock the heck out of them, too.
Me, I have come to know that noise and a certain amount of jumpiness is just a part of the Fisher language at certain settings, a big part at some settings and at some sites but still a language that can be learned never the less.
I have learned a lot of that language using the F2 and need to learn even more using the F70 and its much greater power...and I am happy to do that no matter how long it takes.
For some this process using the F series line and attempting to learn them is frustrating, too frustrating and overwhelming...but I look at it differently.
For me it is challenging and just great fun.
Over on Nasa Tom's website and forum there is so much information and scientific data that it is startling.
He seems to know his stuff, and I can't wait to get out there and try some of this to see what works and what doesn't for me and my sites.
Here are some links to some great reading material, and below I will post some of the highlights and techniques that seem to be pretty important in my effort to get the best out of my F70.
I have tried none of this...yet, but I will and I will report back on my impressions.
http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,4402,page=10
http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,2251
http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,2377,45294
All of his tests are done using the F75 LTD, but according to him because the F75 and the F70 models, (along with the T2), are all built using the same "architecture", so pretty much most everything will relate to all these different models and platforms, and more importantly for my uses, will transfer over to the F70.
A topic well worth revisiting. F1 - F7 EMI mitigation.
I know I have touched on this topic before......but now, I have much more amplifying information. I know I should utilize a U.S. $1 Type-1 gold coin.....as this is the perfect resonance (pinnacle performance) of the F75/LTD......yet, I used a common clad dime for better audience understanding.
Taking a U.S. clad dime to a area that presents near perfect conditions for testing. Here is the importance of Freq Shift (F1 - F7) .... so as to achieve maximum performance. At a local park, , , burying the dime @12"......in sanatized dirt........and virtually no EMI presence......the F75 will (just barely) detect this dime. Changing the frequency from F1 through F7........no EMI change of status (no audible EMI present on any channel).......... and also no change in performance of 12" dime detection with F75 LTD. The CZ-3D will also detect this dime with zero problems.
Moving 75-feet away from this location......where EMI is "moderate"......and a huge (and measureable) delta occurs. With the dime buried at only 8"...... a dramatic incursion ensued. Selecting the BEST frequency that provides the least EMI......and this dime can be detected with ease......AND this is to include over half-a-foot of air-gap over the ground. Yes.....this is to say that the coil is 6"-plus inches above the ground PLUS the 8" that the dime is buried. A total of 14"-plus inches between coil and dime.
Now........Selecting a different frequency that provides/presents a noticable amount of EMI (and this is NOT the worst channel/freq selection; rather, a 'middle-of-the-road' selection).......and the detection of this 8" dime is COMPLETELY undetectable. Here...........The CZ-3D still poses extreme audible stability.........absolutely no idea there is any form of EMI what-so-ever....BUT, BUT, BUT......the CZ will only detect this dime to 10". This is categorized as the most dangerous type of (electronic related) hunting......because the operator has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA the unit is operating at a reduced performance level. Unsuspected and undetected/unknowing reduced performance. The operator would NEVER know it; subsequently, never suspect any form of performance reduction.
THE BEST WAY TO REDUCE EMI:
Place F75 in all-metal mode with max Sens ('99'). Hold coil about a foot above the ground.....very still......and perfectly parallel with the ground. Select F1 through F7.........one at a time...... and listen to each channel/freq for about 4-5 seconds. Find the one freq/channel that provides the least interference. Now you can switch back over to the ID mode......and.....yes......this Freq/channel selection will stay the same whilst switching over to the ID mode. If you are running the unit 'wide open'....and you still are encountering EMI..... you can change Disc to a setting of '5'. There is a huge difference between Disc '4'....and Disc '5'. You should not have to increase Disc to higher numbers. If EMI is still present.... you now can start to drop Sens .... until EMI is gone. Remember; you are already on the best possible F1 through F7 Freq/channel selection...and must employ other methods so as to reduce EMI... if it is still present.
If you look at your LCD depth bar-graph......and EMI is causing it to jump all the way into the middle bar-graph (medium strength signal) ............you will only be able to detect targets that are (at least) as strong/powerful.....OR STRONGER (shallower) as that middle bar-graph. This is also to say that......if you want to get rid of audible EMI......you would then be required to reduce Sensitivity to the point where targets in that middle bar-graph (and deeper targets)... would no longer be detected. What you are doing is.....reducing the sensitivity of the detector to 'just below' the signal strength of the EMI. Said differently; If EMI is so strong......that this specific EMI "looks like" a 7" deep target................then the detector will only be capable of detecting targets up to 7" deep....and no deeper... in this hunting area.
Some of the best days to hunt.....as far as EMI is concerned......is at the very end of a hard rain........or shortly after a hard rain......as this is what washes the salts off of nearby powerlines.
If you are 'beating' an old/hunted-out area again.......and you suddenly learn that you are finding a lot more targets........it may very well be that you are encountering less EMI on this specific day.
I can only stress the level of importance of EMI mitigation. USE THAT F1 THROUGH F7 OPTION.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some excerpts on hunting in iron fields....
With F-75 Disc on '6' and 'monotone',,,,,,.....,,,,,, the moment you invoke a different tone option; Say 2-tone, 3-tone, 4-tone, etc.... the audio portion of the Disc, ....even though Disc is set on '6'...... will instantly become a Disc setting of '15'. What does this mean? = Any target that is between a Disc level of "6 thru 15" will now audibly report as a "Low Tone" (iron tone). BIG PROBLEM for a multiplicity of reasoning's. Now, any target that is ABOVE a "15" (VDI reading)... MIGHT report a higher tone,,,, (tone freq depending on what tone option is invoked). -------Most folks do not dig iron. And most folks WILL miss masked non-ferrous targets when multi-tones are selected.
Say; you have a silver dime and a nail at a handful of inches deep. The two targets are close enough to each other.... and laying in such a fashion so as to give you a VDI ID of...say; '13'. Let's say your F-75 Discrimination is on a setting of '6'.
1. If you are in '1' tone (monotone).... the F-75 will give you a good audio response to the target. (((You will most probably recover the target))).
2. Say the F-75 is in 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H tone options etc.....). Now......... the F-75 will respond with a audio response that most detectorists will NOT dig/recover. The F-75 will report a 'iron' tone (the lowest sounding audio tone). The non-ferrous silver target will most likely NOT be recovered....... even though most all nails will discriminate out at a Disc setting of '6'.
THIS IS BECAUSE; When 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H etc.....) is selected = ANY target that results in a VDI ID reading of '15' or below....will report as a 'iron' low-tone. Most folks will NOT recover iron tones.
On both the T-2 & F-75..... running a higher Sens gain in the trash (especially iron) presents a MUCH enhanced resolution on non-ferrous targets amongst iron. This is a paradoxical contradiction; what is....... but should NEVER be. Next time you find a non-ferrous target amongst high iron trash concentration (with high Sens settings)....... drop the Sens and see what happens. The non-ferrous target audio resolution will decrease.......possibly even disappear completely (depends how badly masked the non-Fe target is). The more masking... the HIGHER the Sens needs to be on the T-2/F-75. ((( This is not a typo )))!
On the F-75 (and T-2), the VDI, audio tone-ID, and Disc are completely independent of each other. If anything, the audio ID vs. the Disc setting more closely parallel each other, yet still differ. This electronic design architect is deliberate..... and is a attribute that you will witness as you accrue some field experience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
F-75 Peak Performance - Disc '6' & mandatory 'monotone' relic hunting justification
When the F-75 is placed on a Disc setting of '6' and 'monotone'; This set-up config allows (under MOST circumstances) the best iron see-thru ability..... in locating non-ferrous targets in areas that are loaded with ferrous (usually nails) environments. The older the site....... the more nails will be present; subsequently, the more good targets will be masked. Most detectors will 'shut-down' under these scenarios. The F-75 (& T-2) are the only detectors currently available on the market that begins to tackle this type of (extremely common) scenario.... with some 'unmasking' success.
.... With F-75 Disc on '6' and 'monotone',,,,,,.....,,,,,, the moment you invoke a different tone option; Say 2-tone, 3-tone, 4-tone, etc.... the audio portion of the Disc, ....even though Disc is set on '6'...... will instantly become a Disc setting of '15'. What does this mean? = Any target that is between a Disc level of "6 thru 15" will now audibly report as a "Low Tone" (iron tone). BIG PROBLEM for a multiplicity of reasonings. Now, any target that is ABOVE a "15" (VDI reading)... MIGHT report a higher tone,,,, (tone freq depending on what tone option is invoked). -------Most folks do not dig iron. And most folks WILL miss masked non-ferrous targets when multitones are selected. Said differently via utilization of a "extremely common occurrence" example;
----- Recently, I recovered a badly masked Barber dime. When I (first) detected this severely handicapped dime, the F-75 was in 'monotone', Disc '6', 'PF' and Sens on '99'. In monotone, the dime AUDIBLY sounded good. (( I was going to dig this target )). The VDI was terrible - would/could NOT lock on to anything close to resembling a highly conductive piece of silver. I then invoked 2-tone..... leaving ALL other settings alone. Now.... the dime was constantly audibly reporting as low-tone (iron-tone).....even as I rotated my body around target. The VDI was jumping all over the board. mostly in the iron ID range. I made the decision to NOT recover the target, primarily due to low iron-tone..... and walked away. Several hours later, I decided to go back and recover this target (and MANY other similar responding targets)..... with F-75 back in 'monotone'. Results = One 2" nail, two 1/2" long nails..... and one 1893 'O' Barber dime. Yep; MOSTLY iron, but certainly not ALL iron. The 2-tone mode did not lie. Justification = The composite of the 4 targets (3 nails & one dime) were higher in conductivity than any one of the nails individually...... but TOTAL conductive composite was HIGHER than any nail (or combination of nails) would have cumulatively registered. Because I (and the detector) knew that the detected target (suspected co-locate/composite of multiple targets under coil) were higher than the conductivity of most nails... yet STILL ID'd in the 'Fe/iron' range...... this target was needing recovery. Good thing! Selecting any other tone option..... and the detector would audibly report the composite as "low-tone/iron-tone". Yes, the F-75 will still unmask more non-ferrous targets than other detectors if 2-tone or multiple tones are selected; however, a substantially greater level of unmasking performance can be ascertained when unit is placed in 'monotone'. ((( The T-2 with a Disc setting of '21' is the exact same thing as all of the info above ))). Having the ability to adjust how MUCH iron you choose to discriminate.is a major attribute. Small iron items.. such as nails will Disc out at a fairly low iron Disc range.
This is Approx 10% of F-75's capabilities.
In addendum:
#1 On both the T-2 & F-75..... running a higher Sens gain in the trash (especially iron) presents a MUCH enhanced resolution on non-ferrous targets amongst iron. This is a paradoxical contradiction; what is....... but should NEVER be. Next time you find a non-ferrous target amongst high iron trash concentration (with high Sens settings)....... drop the Sens and see what happens. The non-ferrous target audio resolution will decrease.......possibly even disappear completely (depends how badly masked the non-Fe target is). The more masking... the HIGHER the Sens needs to be on the T-2/F-75. ((( This is not a typo )))!
#2 The mandatory "monotone" instructions is primarily for iron nail pits. Long description:
--- If a non-ferrous target is co-located in very close proximity to iron/multi-iron scenario.......,,,,,,,, then......... as you rotate your body around the composite target; the audio will be bouncing between all of the different tones (same with VDI)...with each tone being exceptionally short in duration. You may even encounter a multi-tone audible reporting in ONE sweep of the coil !!! ..... Surely enough to confuse most detectorists into a NON-recovery decision..... as the target is audibly confusing,,, and is not a 'clean' or "solid" repeatable sounding target. ((( Most masked targets are not 'clean' audio targets ))). Each of the multi-tones reporting will be audibly shorter in duration. Kind of a "ratty" sounding/bouncing signal. NOW..... when monotone is selected/invoked,,,,,, this SAME composite target(s) will audibly report a LONGER duration SINGLE-tone audible presentation (instead of several shorter-in-length different tones in one sweep of the coil)..... that will less-likely confuse the operator ..... and authorize the operator to make a much better profiling of the composite target audio signature ..... with the end resultant being a more intelligible target-recovery decision from less audible fatigue. Tech Terms; A better signal-to-hull emitter correlation. I'd rather hear ONE "longer" monotone vs. several shorter multi-tones in rapid succession.in a single coil sweep. NOW....... IMAGINE sweeping the coil in a iron nail pit with 2 or 3 or ---- especially 4 tones selected. A hill-billy jug band!!! Try and make non-fatigued intelligent audio decisions under this common scenario! The VDI is extremely "jumpy" in iron pits.... AND SO WOULD BE THE MULTI-TONES!!! ...... At least,,,, in monotone,,,,, as the VDI is presenting extreme variances .... the one monotone will be CONSTANT and STABLE......even as the conductivity of the multi-target scenario varies dramatically ........ even with only one sweep of the coil.
#3 On CZ-3D.... in the 'enhanced' mode; Nearly ALL old coins.... and new coins,,,,, will report as "hi-tone". On the F-75 & T-2, you MUST invoke 4-tone...... which will then cause the OLD coins to audibly report in the 3rd highest tone region (vs. mid-tone)...... and the new coins will remain in THE highest tone. If you select 3-tone on T-2/F-75.... only the NEW coins will report as high-tone.... and SOME of the older coins might report as high tone. Most of the older coins would then audibly report as mid-tone (just like the alum soda tabs).
#4 If you run Disc on 0-4 on the F-75..... all nails will report as good targets in monotone. With F-75 Disc on '6'..... MOST (not all) nails will report as a snap-crackle-pop....tick-click (not a solid audio); which, in turn..... can be ignored. Axe heads, hammers, gun barrels and other large iron targets will give a good audio with Disc on '6' on the F-75. .... But, MOST fields we hunt are not loaded with axe heads, gun barrels and hammers.
#5 The F-75/T-2 have a tendency to "up-average" non-ferrous target ID numbers when near disintegrated iron or bad minerals. VERY common occurrence. It is partial 'silent masking' coupled with conductive target response. I have several documented experiences exactly relating to this.
+++ Let's say that you detect a slightly masked silver dime. Normally (without being masked) it would VDI at '71'. But now..... it's slightly masked. It may now VDI at '89'..... a somewhat "up-averaging" VDI common resultant. In both cases, the detector reports "hi-tone". No problems yet.
A slightly corroded buffalo nickel will VDI at '28' in open air...and audibly report as a 'hi-tone'. Now....... with this same nickel in the dirt ... in a natural setting and partially masked..... IT TOO will "up-average" (just like the silver dime) ,,,, to,,, say = VDI '47'. Hmmmmmm, now the nickel 'looks' like a soda tab to the detector...and the unit will now report the slightly masked nickel as a mid-tone. ((( All of this holds true for medium conductivity items...such as relics & gold jewelry ))).
....If you are recovering Mercury dimes at (say) the 11" depth strata...... You may want to ALSO recover the 11" depth strata mid-tones.... as many of these will be the corresponding era Buffalo nickels.
The T-2 & F-75 electronic design architect is notorious for "Up-Averaging" non-ferrous targets in the presence of iron & iron oxides. Not a problem, considering other single freq units would remain completely silent.
ALL detectors have a difficult time ID'ing nickels. CZ's do the best ID job, but are not immune to EASILY mis-ID'ing nickels.
#6 All-Metal mode is the deepest mode; HOWEVER, coin-sized objects will still ID to depths of only 12" or so. The depth at which a target will properly ID in the ID mode..... is the same depth it will properly ID in the AM mode (F-75 & T-2). Yes, targets will audibly report to greater depths in the AM mode...... but the VDI screen will remain blank on the deeper targets. Now,,,,,,, that being said...... IF you are a extremely seasoned hunter...you can take advantage of these greater (no VDI) deeper depths. If you can audibly 'profile' deep/weak targets, you are in for some serious enjoyment. Can you tell the difference between a small target that is shallow, , , such as a lead .22 Short 29Gr rimfire projectile at 4" deep vs. a U.S. nickel at 12" depth. These are both non-ferrous targets. ....... And can you tell the difference between a 2-Penny nail at 7" vs. a Wheat penny at 12". This latter example... is the MOST common and MOST important test for the astute detectorist,,,, as it poses the greatest challenge with the most significant, rewarding resultant. Of note; Dinosaurs can be miles beneath the Earths surface. Egyptian sunken cities are dozens of feet deep........ thusly; the 100 year-old coins we wish to find are a foot or two deep.
NOW.......... that being said. (((( If you are in a nail infested area, and you do NOT audibly fatigue easily = = = )))) IF, IF, IF, you can handle a lot of noise.... and the detector can handle (not EMI plagued) a Disc setting of '0' and a Sens setting of '99'....then hunt in 2, 3, 4 tones (your choice),,, hunting for the "deepies". YES.....the detector will mask some targets in this audio selection config (ie 2, 3, 4 tones are selected) because any (heavily masked) target that VDI ID's as a '15' or below will present a 'iron' audio response (as so stated in example above),,,,, BUT, the trade-off is; the F-75 will go deeper just by virtue of the Disc setting being '4' or below (especially '0').
Soooooooo, I am saying (by this set-up config) = MORE MASKING, BUT GREATER DEPTH. Hmmmmmmmm... trade-off. Which one does better? Disc '6' & monotone???? or Disc '0' and multi-tone???? The answer is: They BOTH do!!!!!!!!!
I am saying; HUNT the area in Disc '6' & monotone...... and perform all of the 'unmasking' that you can. THEN hunt in Disc '0' and a tone-option of your choice.... going for all the deepies.
NO...... you can not have both at the same time.
In theory,,,,,,, in an ideal world; Targets are spaced far enough apart so as to be single, solo targets....... not tilted, not near hot rocks, not near iron, no dirt mineralization etc....... This would allow the detector to ID targets with greatest accuracy. HOWEVER; This is not reality ..... not the real world. Fact of the matter is; Nearly all targets are somewhat/somehow handicapped. First; as a good target (say a coin) is moved closer to any other metallic object, a multiplicity of problems are introduced to the detector. Now add dirt mineralization, tilt the coin, add a hot rock or two, etc..... WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD! This is genuinely what we contend with as detectorists and detector engineers. How do you correct and compensate for infinite unpredictable variables?! Secondly; What may be categorized and classified as "these two targets are too close to each other" to Brand 'A' detector & coil Assy. may present different results to Brand 'B' detector & coil Assy. The extremely enhanced adjacent target separation characteristics afforded by a elliptical Double D coil presents just exactly such. A coin and a pull-tab... both at a 6" depth....... and adjacently separated by 6", poses a severe problem to a 10.5" concentric coil,,,,, but does not even approach "problem" status to a 11" elliptical DD coil.
When absolute maximum overdriven performance is desired:
1) Starting point = Factory Preset and Ground Balance.
2) Hold coil parallel to ground.... and at a height (approx) 8" above the ground. Do not tilt the coil upward. Increase Sens to '99' and verify detector is audibly stable. This is the FIRST step. (((Shut down your intents if you cannot ascertain stability with Sens on '99'))).
3) Next....... IF no EMI is encountered with '99' Sens........ THEN you may start to bring Disc down. Start with Disc '6'.
4) IF the detector is still EMI stable.... see what happens to EMI stability.... by lowering Disc BELOW '5'. '5' is not the magic number.... but '4' is. Going to a Disc setting of '4' is where sensitivity receives yet another boost. (((And USUALLY............... when you are at a Disc of '4' ... and ESPECIALLY lower... is where multitone option is virtually required))). Set Disc on '4' and verify detector remains audibly stable.
5) Now, Drop Disc to '3'... then '2'... then '1'... then ultimately '0'.. verifying audio stability is still retained.
6) Now select JE mode and verify detector remains audibly quiet.
((( IF .... during any of these steps, the detector becomes audibly 'chattery' .... you have electrical interference (EMI).... and must back-up in procedure,,,,, until you re-find electrical stability,,,,......,,,,,,, and these are the settings you should hunt with ))).
7) Start sweeping the coil..... with the coil remaining 8" above the ground,,,, and verify detector remains audibly stable.
8) Start lowering the coil closer to the ground while continuing to sweep....and verify detector remains audibly stable. If you manage to get the coil all the way down onto the ground while sweeping..... and the detector is audibly stable,,,,, you are home-free!!!!... and have the most powerful relic detector currently on the market. Remember, many relics are very low conductors (in the 'foil' range).
((( IF..... while lowering the coil to the ground as you are sweeping,,,,, and the detector THEN becomes audibly unstable..... you have ground interference ... most probably from high volumes of tiny flakes of rust/iron (a VERY common dirt occurrence)..... which then, you must back out of the JE mode ))).
9) It is your choice for 'tone options'.
I have YET to be able to handle a nail infested site with the detector in monotone.... and a Disc setting of '0'. This means that you hear absolutely everything.
It is not so much that a DE would over-engineer a detector to be audibly unintelligible; it's more a 'sensitivity function' of a gold prospecting capable unit..... coupled with a extremely fast microprocessor/clockspeed and very tight electromagnetic footprint emanating from the coil. Little flecks of iron will cause this particular detector set (F-75 & T-2) to sound electromagnetically unstable. On a recent hunt, I (as usual) was overdriving the F-75...and, in one area, it became electrically unstable (((so I thought))). Coil in the air.... and unit was stable. Coil on the ground and not moving.... and unit was mostly stable. Sweeping coil.... and EMI interference ensued. Hmmmmm....... let's dig some of these so-called "chatters". Resultant: About every 2" or 3"..... I was finding #2 lead shot from a shotgun.... at a depth of approx 1.5". I quit recovering them once I had about a dozen in my hand. The small spot of land that I recovered/removed these small BB's.... suddenly had no 'electrical chatter' in this one localized location of coil-sweep. Exterior of this sans spot,,,,, the electrical chatter resumed. I knew I was 'overdriving' the F-75.... and decided to drop the Sens to a setting of '70'..... and the perceived electrical chatter (the BB-shot).... as coil was being swept.... suddenly vanished. I had desensitized the detector enough to no longer detect these small targets,,,, and the unit became stable again. Masking was still taking place though. It hurts me to drop Sens to lower levels; however, I could ascertain a more stable/intelligible unit and could then somewhat "hunt". (Targets beneath these BB's are going to be partially or completely "masked"winking smiley.
Another known engineering fact is that a single freq unit has the ability to handle Fe better than multi-freq units. Both types of units are still blinded (masked & silent masked) by iron,,,,, but the single freq units can ID iron with better accuracy, less falsing.... and a hair-splitting Disc setting is more ascertainable with a single freq unit.
Something worth mentioning; in reference to the CZ (and nearly all other units). When the coil is passed over a target (or multi-target co-locate scenario), the reporting circuitry will remain silent. When peak signal strength is ascertained, the detector reporting circuitry will STILL remain silent. When the electronics see the received signal strength 'start' to decay (decrease), then ....and only then, will the detector take a "best-guess" and report a target & ID. Keep in mind..... if multiple targets are under the coil at the same time, these types of detectors will wait until the largest COMPOSITE signal strength (only one) is achieved. And now...... the different animals; the T-2 & F-75. Their electronics and audio will 'fire' on ANY target,,,,, and take multiple "snap-shots" and report each one. Hence; the F-75 & T-2 will audibly sound very 'noisy'. Said differently: Let's say the dirt is Sans.... except for one single coin target at several inches deep. At a normal sweep-rate,,,,, the F-75 & T-2 will 'fire' many many many times (dictated by micro-processor clock speed) on the coin..... and report each 'firing' individually...... BUT; what do your human ears hear/register? It just simply sounds like one continuous "beep" to you. It's not! Now..... pass your coil over many extremely close (and very small) co-located targets with 75/2 and see if your brain can process at the same speed of the 75/2. You will also notice the VDI jumping radically. Do you think the VDI is incorrect!!!??? These steroiditic detectors (unfortunately) are mentally fatiguing......... not because of the detector,,,,, but due to our ears clock-speed. The CZ's are a MUCH smoother, MUCH better sounding unit..... and SO much easier to detect/hunt with. BUT, they can be quite blind (easily masked) and can close doors....... where the 75's/2's can re-open hunted-out sites with tremendous success. especially with a slower coil sweep-speed in hi trash areas. ----Food for thought.
Happy Intelligent Hunting!
Thomas J. Dankowski
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another post about tones...
F-75 BETTERING YOUR PERFORMANCE & UNDERSTANDING
On the F-75 (and T-2) .... by invoking the '4H' tone option..... the unit will sound very similar (audibly) to the 4-tones of a CZ-3D/CZ-70. And ONLY in this 4/4H mode ... it will then perform in a very similar fashion to the CZ-3D in respect to ..... specifically; "OLD COINS" with one small exception. Many folks are "old coins" hunters; and the 4/4H tone option is specifically targeted to aid them in the recovery of old coins that would otherwise audibly report as a trash tone (mid-tone). By invoking/selecting the 4-tone option (or 4H) some unique things happen. The following is a INCOMPLETE list of coins that will (now) ID audibly as the 3rd highest tone (a separate tone that is just below the highest tone the F-75/T-2 produces):
Many silver Half-Dimes
All silver 3-Cent Trimes
Many 'tilted' silver dimes & quarters and copper coins
Many 'partially masked' silver & copper coins
All Indian Head pennies
All Flying Eagle Cents
Many Half Cents
All U.S. $5.00 gold Half-Eagle pieces
Many coins 'on edge'
Many tokens
All of these items will audibly ID as a mid-tone (trash tone just like aluminum trash) if 3 or 3H tone option is invoked. By invoking 4 or 4H all of these aforementioned targets will audibly report HIGHER than a mid-tone. sounding almost as high as the high-tone.yet MOST of the aluminum trash will still report as a mid-tone/trash-tone whilst in 4 or 4H tone option. As far as the small exception in reference to the CZ-3D all of the aforementioned targets will ID as the highest tone on the 3D as long as the Enhance mode is invoked, with most aluminum trash still reporting as a mid-tone/trash-tone. The conductivity of yesteryears coins are different as compared to modern coinage; hence the 4/4H tone option on the F-75/T-2 and the Enhance mode on the CZ-3D. To date, all other manufacturers detectors do NOT have this option.
On the F-75 (and T-2), the VDI, audio tone-ID, and Disc are completely independent of each other. If anything, the audio ID vs. the Disc setting more closely parallel each other, yet still differ. This electronic design architect is deliberate..... and is a attribute that you will witness as you accrue some field experience.
Try this experiment, time permitting.. in a few different locations (different dirt scenario/resultants). Place Disc on a setting of '0' (zero). Find/detect a few different old-generation nails in their natural dirt setting. You will see them ID as say: '10' & '13' & '11'. Now..... place Disc on '7' and watch them completely disappear!!!..... both audibly and VDI.
__Another case-in-point --- recent experience/example;
I had been detecting a parcel of land in Sanford, FL for nearly 2 years with the F-75. For very specific testing reasons, I have always kept the Disc on a setting of '10' for this specific site ONLY. (Normally, I run Disc on 6 or lower). This parcel of property was moderately heavy with iron trash. I removed ALL non-ferrous targets out of this area with F-75..... to the best of my (and F-75's) ability at a Disc setting of 10. -----Now...... my testing would ensue. I now (finally) dropped Disc to a setting of '6' ((( been waiting to do this for a LONG time ))). MANY more non-ferrous targets came to light. The most noteworthy educational target was a fairly worn 1963 silver Roosevelt dime at a measured 6" depth. Out of the ground...... It ID'd as a continous '70'. In the ground, it ID'd as a 'bouncer'........ VDI jumping from 46 to 97 AND DEPTH WAS READING 11". In 'monotone', the audio was fairly clean and solid. Invoking 4H tones.... and the target audibly ID'd as a moderately solid/somewhat repeatable 3rd highest 'zinc' tone (what would be catagorized as CZ-70 'relic' tone). If I put the F-75 into 3 or 3H tone option..... the dime would ID as a mid-tone/aluminum soda-tab trash tone. This is somewhat unimportant....and not nearly as important as the following info.... prior to recovery:
When I first detected this target (1963 silver dime)..... First, I was surprised that I had missed this specific non-ferrous target (and many other non-ferrous targets). Second, BEFORE I even thought of digging this target...... I flipped the Discrim back to '10' and found my primary answer. The dime completely disappeared. NO audio response.....and no VDI. Dropping the Disc down to '6' again...... and the silver dime NOW was bouncing again on the VDI between 46 to 97. How and Why would this VDI 46-to-97 non-ferrous target be Disc'd out at a Disc setting of '10' ???? When I first attempted recovery of this target, I dug a 8" x 8" x 8" cube of soil/plug. I pulled the plug out of the ground and flipped it over. Because the target was reading 11" deep.... I had some certainty that the 8"-cube plug did not contain the target; subsequently resulting in my 'dunking' the coil down to the bottom of the hole....... only to find no target. Then I swept the coil over the up-side-down plug I just pulled from the ground...... and found the target only 2" deep from the bottom side of the plug (6 deep from the grass-side of the plug). I scraped away the dirt until I found a silver dime..... and could see the impression of the dime in the dirt at the 6" depth strata. The F-75 was completely wrong on the ID and also completely wrong on the 11" depth reading. Hmmmmmmm. Not happy and needing definitive resolution acquisition....."WHY" this happened. I proceeded to rapidly 'shave' the dirt plug from the bottom side... at approx 1/16" increments .... utilizing 20 lbs test monofilament fishing line until I found the answer; a blood spot in the soil (from a COMPLETELY decomposed small nail) at the 4" depth strata..... partially masking the dime. ........This validates the independence of VDI vs. audio ID vs. Disc setting. It also validates EM signal attenuation via the iron oxide blood spot..... and why the 6" deep dime registered as 11" deep. Good thing the dime was not an inch deeper (7" deep)...... or the masking blood spot was not 1" shallower!
The F-75 was incorrect about ID and depth. That's okay..... as the Explorer completely 'nulled' over this target..... the Coin$trike was silently masked with no audio at all..... and the CZ was iron-falsing with high-tone/low-tone bounces.... very indicative of what 90-Deg. bent nails do to a CZ. The only detector that prompted me to dig this target was the F-75. It reported the most and was confused the least.and the detector is not to blame, as there were interference producing culprits under the coil. The least amount of filters utilized in the detector. and lower Disc settings most always provide the best raw data and unmasking capabilities.
Many times, I have witnessed a non-ferrous target or coin (IH pennies, Ag dimes) report nothing at all (Disc'd out) with a Disc setting of '8' on the F-75 due to partial masking. Subsequently, dropping the Disc to '6'..... and these coins now suddenly VDI'd as severe VDI spectrum bouncers....bouncing between say; 11 all the way up to the high 90's. Other detectors would just simply report iron. or remain completeley silent (silent masking).
Another somewhat similar phenomenon/example:
Say; you have a silver dime and a non-oxidized nail in very close proximity (nearly touching) at a handful of inches deep. The two targets are close enough to each other.... and laying in such a fashion so as to give you a VDI ID of...say; '13' (a higher ID than what most nails will ID.. but still within the iron ID range). Let's say your F-75 Discrimination is on a setting of '6'.
1. If you are in '1' tone (monotone).... the F-75 will give you a good audio response to the target.. regardless of what the VDI is indicating. Since you are in 1-tone (monotone) there is no tone-ID per-se. (((You will most probably recover the target))).
2. Now.. say the F-75 is in 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H tone options etc.....). And NOW......... the F-75 will respond with a tone audio response that most detectorists will NOT dig/recover. The F-75 will report a 'iron' tone (the lowest sounding audio tone). The non-ferrous silver target will most likely NOT be recovered....... even though most all nails will discriminate out at a Disc setting of '6'.
THIS IS BECAUSE; When 2-tone (or 3, 3H, 4, 4H etc.....) is selected = ANY target that results in a VDI ID reading of '15' or below....will report as a 'iron' LOW-tone. Most folks will NOT recover iron tones. Especially in nail infested areas.
Conclusively:
In situations like this..... COMPLETELY ignore the VDI. Rotate your body around the target until you have the best/most clear audio report. ((( This is usually best performed in monotone ))). NOW...... and only NOW,,,,, you may look at the VDI,,,, but for a distant secondary data input. You should already know (at this point) that you will/will not recover this target.
..... Also at this point, you may want to play with a interesting geophysics iron hysteresis, permeability and magnetism phenomenon; At the point of 'Max Q' audio resolution (where you acquire the cleanest/best audio response) on a partially masked target...... start rotating your body AWAY from this Max Q point whilst sweeping coil from side-to-side, directly over the suspected good targetwith your body encircling the target. You will notice that when you start rotating deeper into the iron masking culprit .... you will witness the VDI numbers climb very high,,,,, until you rotate far enough out of detectability of the non-ferrous target. and too deep into the iron target. Audibly, the signal will sound very ratty....,,,,, just prior to complete loss of the non-ferrous 'good' target. Iron masking does weird things! USUALLY.. oxides of iron in close proximity of a non-ferrous target will cause the VDI to up-average on the non-ferrous target of interest.. and solid iron objects that are NOT rusted will cause a VDI down-averaging effect when a co-located non-ferrous & ferrous (coin & nail combo) is detected. BUT, since iron objects nearly always rust/oxidize you may have the solid iron object with all of its associated rust oxide in concert with the non-ferrous target you wish to detect.. presenting a wide array of resultants. The SIZE of the solid (remaining) iron object vs. the AMOUNT of surrounding oxides dictates the resultant.
NOW all of the above being said; Invoking a Disc of 0 and a (required) multi-tone option of your choice (I prefer 4-tones). and hunting iron infested areas.. if you can put up with all of the incredible iron-tone reporting audio fatigue, , , , your unmasking resultant can be phenomenal. Rightfully so; most folks cannot handle this incredibly audio fatiguing set-up; hence, my lack of focus on this style/type of hunting. This is a whole different chapter (at some later time). and is for you to discover! ((( Most folks can handle a Monotone & Disc 6 setting which causes most nails to snap, crackle, pop.. and any audio report that has audio length to it. a elongated audio report. is worth investigating ))).
SUMMATION/CONCLUSION: Severely Fe masked coins and other non-ferrous targets can do VERY weird things to the detector (especially ID circuitry)...... and USUALLY..... MOSTLY in the fashion of VDI "UP-AVERAGING" (but never a guarantee)! -Welcome to the world of infinite variables!!!
Happy Intelligent Hunting,
Thomas J. Dankowski
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, Digger27 back again...
I have learned than when you kick the upper F series detectors down past 5 on the sense into the 0-4 range there is a large boost in sensitivity...the lower you go the more you will get with 0 being the most sensitive.
Mudpuppy wondered why he was getting so deep with sense at between 50 and 60, thresh at -2 or -3 and I think DE speed in DP tones.
His disc is usually set around 1 and that huge sensitivity boost you get between 0-4 on disc is why.
Transmit power stays the same through all of this but there is a big boost in sensitivity at those 4 or under disc settings.
I have also learned in reading a ton that on some targets, especially the deep ones or some that are masked, you need to forget about anything you see on the screen and just listen for that good tone...especially a repeating tone.
An effect called "up averaging" and another called "down averaging" might come into play and just going by the VDI numbers good targets can be missed.
Luckily I am a "Tone guy" first and foremost and I guess I have to give credit to the many hours spent with my Tesoros and also the F2 for that.
IBdiggin over on Findmall, (IMdiggin over here), learned and knows this lesson well...
IBdiggin said:Welcome to the world of F70 Yowow. I've said all along, and I will say it again. "You will either love or hate the F70". I can relate to many styles of hunters that seem to frequent this site like Mudpuppy with his quick broom hunt for FRESHIES program, or Revier and his look for all and hear all mission to find yet one more great piece in that same park or basket ball strip he has already enjoyed so much success at. I find my style leaning more towards the latter. Now it seems that with two such different agendas as the for mentioned we would be talking about two guys using two completely different detectors. And that my friends is the real beauty of the F70. It has something for everyoneyowow#1 said:
Be very careful with this unit because if you fall asleep on a park bench while taking a break, and get your foot in front of the coil, you could actually burn a hole in your shoeNo!!!!! not really, but it is hot. Part of the reason it is so hot is not only the TX(transmit) circuit but also the RX(receive) circuit. The F70 hears really well. Unfortunately it hears the bad also really well.
Had my eye on a sledding hill last summer I heard about from my grandson actually, in an area that has very few hills around in a park right in town. Every kid who got a new sled or snowboard for Christmas would not be able to resist a quick ride there to try their newest adventure since it was so close even though the hill was not the biggest, it was still a hill. As I arrived at the park I saw lots of utility trucks on the hill and a small dozer with a ditch witch type cable burying tool. I thought "OH MY GOD, I'm a day too late. So I hunted a lower portion of the park as I had on other occasions just so I could spy on the activities of the days workforce. Man they were putting everything but the kitchen sink down in the ground on that slope right along a paved walking trail too boot where I found lots of fresh drops by hikers in the past.
About three days later and after lots of rain which was a blessing that ended about a month long dry spell, I was able to explore what kind of a fiasco the planting project had left behind. When I turned on the F70 I thought I was going insane. I had numbers flashing repeatedly in the display that reminded me of the main frame host at Norad in the movie War Games looking for the launch codes in a game of Global Thermal Nuclear War. Along with the changing display numbers was a different tone for each to confuse things even more.
And here is the kicker. It was all at a speed which equaled the fast recovery time of the F70. Now that my friends is EMI at it's worst.
The cables followed a path parallel to the walking path about two hundred yards to a creek with a walking bridge over it where the underground cables finally veered off from the path. Also the hill had another face which sloped at a right angle to the path with little mini walking trails through the woods that the more talented snowboarders used for mini slalom courses. It was here I was quick to pick up a nice pocket full of quarters away from the EMI. Ok I will admit I was cherry pickin, brooming, clad stabbing, what ever you want to call it Mud, you would have been proud on me that day even though I was using the 10" elliptical. That spot needs to be revisited with a more focused search but as you recall I had already been a "day late" at this sight once before so I was going to at least get the quarters.
So now I am back at the path with all the EMI and no matter what frequency I tried, all channels were equally bad. So remember now these constantly changing display numbers were accompanied by a tone signal different than the previous and at the reset speed the 70 has which is mind boggling. This is probably one of the best scenarios for running Delta Pitch tones you will ever find. I began playing with settings but didn't want to go too negative with the threshold because the EMI was so overwhelming I was sure I wouldn't hear a thing even at 0 threshold which is where I left it.
I finally settled on a 35 sensitivity since most of what I considered a true sounding tone and by true I mean not too fuzzy sounding. Also I should add that the notch indicators were also changing at the same speed rate along with the display and tones so they were no help either in sorting out this cluster from hell.
Here I am, a man with patience of stone facing an impossible task with what appears to have no solution. The display flashing numbers so fast you could not assign any value to any real target. It seemed that the F70 was creating its own demise with it's incredible recovery speed. Now any body who knows me knows I am a pretty good puzzle solver and very observant and at the risk of breaking my arm trying to pat myself on the back I must say I surprised myself on this one. But not as much as this incredible medal detector surprised me. The guys at Fisher Labs were really on the ball when they made this one and I wonder if they even know the monster they have created. I'm standing there studying this cluster of tangled jibberish when I noticed that as the F 70's notch indicators kept changing with the display, they were never landing on the quarter or 50 cent notch which meant my sensitivity was low enough that I was not falsing off of any iron that may have been present. So slowly I began swinging near the EMI infected path watching the notch indicators and sure enough eventually there it was. A flash in the quarter slot. I turned to do a 90 and there it was again only this time, and for a very short time I heard the quarter pitch tone. It took me a while but I was able to train my ears to listen only for that incredible quarter sound among all the other noise I was being bombarded with. I pulled the pro pointer out and there at 2" a quarter popped into my hand. This thing hits so hard on coins that even EMI of this magnitude can not hide them but with the speed of the reoccurring frequency you had to be really looking for the hidden signals to know they were even there. It was more of an accident than not that I discovered this and if I would have been in a hurry I would have walked right by. Thought I would share this again as I did last summer and Revier I know you have already locked this into your mental vault and I know from your writings you are already hooked. I would like to get another coil but just cannot because this one just keeps blowing my mind and is still teaching me. Once again I just cannot express enough what a great detector the F70 is. It's not for everyone but what detector is?----------HH
I can understand why so many that have tried these sensitive F series detectors and gave up thinking they were an unintelligible mess of noise.
Some even go as far as to knock the heck out of them, too.
Me, I have come to know that noise and a certain amount of jumpiness is just a part of the Fisher language at certain settings, a big part at some settings and at some sites but still a language that can be learned never the less.
I have learned a lot of that language using the F2 and need to learn even more using the F70 and its much greater power...and I am happy to do that no matter how long it takes.
For some this process using the F series line and attempting to learn them is frustrating, too frustrating and overwhelming...but I look at it differently.
For me it is challenging and just great fun.
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
I found tons with the F2...adjusted the sense and the disc only because that is all I could do and it turned out more than adequate for me.
However, I also love the fact I now have even more power and can do all these adjustments and see the results.
Get good with your great F2, read my posts and threads about it and great targets will be jumping out of the ground for you too fairly quickly.
Luckily, you live in SW Kansas and there are plenty of targets left to find down there.
Up here in the NE part of the state me and my F2 have made the area a little less "target rich".
I sure gave it my best shot, anyway.
One day in the future, maybe you will want to try a few more whistles and a couple more bells.
Both kind are fun and productive in their own ways.
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
2 days ago I went to an old park and found the greatest coin spill in my career.
A 1915 wheatie and 3 Indians a 1901, 1902 and an 1887.
Story here...
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=177416
I rolled over this spill using the 11" DD coil, (thank you Captain Silver!), in DE, 4H tones at first then changed to 1F to check it out a bit more, sense was about 80 and the thresh was at -1 if I remember correctly.
Using the pinpoint I saw numbers at 7 and 8 on the screen and even though these signals kind of jumped all over the depth was intriguing, and I still heard something solid and sweet in the tone that made me stop and dig a hole, 2 holes, actually, and I am sure glad I did.
I usually hunt on settings a little higher than this but this was near the outside of the park across the street from some very large, majestic but old homes that I believe might have had some wifi set up and I believe there was a power line in the vicinity, also.
The combination of coins, the depth and the interference all added up to a pretty jumpy signal in the numbers on the screen but I still saw flashes in the low 80's and heard some good tones so I dug it...just like I am now programmed to do after using my Tesoro's and my F2 for the past few years.
I posted this over on Findmall and knarfj, who also hunts with an F70, mentioned something about using different tones for the best depth possible so I replied and I will re-post my feelings and conclusions about this below.
Every hunt I am still experimenting and learning new things that are changing my world and the way I hunt.
Every great find seems to open my eyes a bit more to what this thing is capable of and I am still at the very beginning of that learning curve.
Scary to think what this thing will find for me this year as I continue to progress and adapt.
According to all that stuff I posted from Nasa Tom, I believe he seems to think that 1 tone will give you the best audio response on deep targets if you are set up correctly, no matter what is going on while looking at the screen, and of course AT is very deep and pretty accurate, too.
Since I am looking to go as deep as possible this year and find some older coins I find myself needing to adapt to a new way of hunting with the F70.
Using the F2 I rarely dug signals that jumped too much on the screen more than 2 numbers, although I do realize that targets deep could very well do that.
I also didn't use my 10" coil all that much that could reach down deeper since jewelry was my goal and trashy sites were my preferred areas to hunt.
When I do hunt for clad and jewelry and even if I happen to move into trashy sites using the 11" DD coil or any coils I usually set the thing up closer to mud's settings with the sense down closer to 60, thresh in the negative numbers and use my favorite 4H tones because it is similar to hunting with the F2.
Hunting like this I can revert to my old way of not looking at the screen and just listening for good, solid repeating tones and then check out the screen to see what I am scanning and that still seems to work for me.
On one of my first hunts with the 10" elliptical that 4H setting those nickel high tones really helped to alert me to a nice nickel signal and even though it was right next to trash it made me stop and go back to look at the screen and move the coil around the area to examine it better and I ended up digging a nice gold ring and paid for 1/3 of the cost of the F70 new with that one target.
Messing around on my last few hunts and playing with the tones I found I do like 2F for hunting in areas for depth and with some iron like hunting old horse trails up a mountain looking for old silver coins that also has several horseshoes and nails to contend with.
I have tried the 1 tone setting and I do think that actually does give a great audio response on the deepies, but for me it is actually fatiguing listing to that one tone and I think I like the 1F and 2F setting better because it is more modulated in that tone and seems to be less tiring for some reason.
On all these lower tone settings I had to retrain myself to not only listen for the good tones but actually look at the screen while I hunt which is way different for me.
I can usually tell most of the iron and a lot of the foil trash and avoid it but I especially don't want to miss any targets with odd numbers because who knows what they can be...maybe something deep and cool, and now I have to look at the screen way more to notice these.
Now in this park, which is pretty old and has much history but not a huge amount of iron, depth is what I was aiming for on this hunt.
This signal was way more bouncy in the numbers than anything I would have considered digging with my F2 and my 10" coil, although that would have been a mistake.
When I ran over this in 4H tones I did hear a few high tone signals and now I do remember switching over to 1F to check it out further and even though the numbers were still pretty bouncy, (due to the fact there were multiple coins and that copper wheatie in that first hole), I did hear a couple of nice high tones still.
At this point since I am still experimenting with different tones on strange signals I usually would have tried a few more things like switching to SL would have made too much noise I suspect because of the high EMI at this particular area, or I would have moved over to program 2 which I have set up in AT with high sense and threshold in the positive range which I use to check out deeper signals for more info, but I didn't do any of that because it was in the lower 40's with some heavy wind gusts close to 50MPH and I was just starting this hunt but was already feeling the cold.
I heard a few good high tones in 4H, got some decent solid sounding tones switching to 1F and even though I had some real jumpy numbers I still saw some numbers flash into the low 80's on my screen, I did use the pinpoint button to get a depth reading and I saw 7 and 8 numbers on the screen and that was enough so I stopped, dropped and dug and found the greatest coin spill of my career so far.
Would I have had the same signal on coins this deep using the 10" elliptical coil, I have no idea.
I know that coil goes pretty deep but not quite as deep as the 11" DD or maybe it might but the tone and screen info could well be different.
So far I have dug one deep target with that standard coil at 10" in this same park which was a beaver tail tab and was a one way hit only, actually a high tone but solid, and there were absolutely no numbers flashing on the screen at all which I have learned the F70 will do when targets are at the very end of its range, or with that coil it will act that way and I believe I read that the same thing will occur using the other coils.
All I know is I learned a few things on this one.
When searching deep in not so trashy and older areas I will be using that 11" dd coil exclusively.
I will probably use the 1F and 2F tone settings to do this hunting these type of sites most of the time.
I will make an effort to look at that screen on most signals so I can notice at least that first number that flashes which Tom seems to think would be more of a correct and accurate one.
The numbers on the screen don't matter anywhere as near as much as the tones I hear.
I will set my sense as high as possible and try to get the thresh into the positive numbers when I am able because even though it does skew the audio signal a bit it bothers me way less than it would using 4H tones.
The thresh also needs to be as high as possible because all signals get louder as you turn up that setting and I want to hear as much of everything I can at all times so I always have my volume turned to max on the F70 and my Killer B's headphones, too.
I did not notice what the confidence meter was doing on this dig but I will try to notice that from now on because I read that can give you some good information too...sometimes.
When in doubt, dig it, especially on the deep ones...it is the only true way to know what you are actually scanning and deeper targets can act weird and can act skittish, even the good ones.
I was told by people in my MD club that this park is "hunted out" and nobody has found anything but modern clad and maybe some modern jewelry in quite awhile.
Strange to me because this thing has history as a golf course and a park going back to the late 1800's, also a civil war battle took place on this site, and it is 74 acres large so I can't wrap my head around that idea at all.
I am sure that this place has been hunted with E-Tracs and other deep units but no matter what there is no way every square inch has been covered.
My MD club has a local forum and after posting about this spill the president said I am really getting along with this F70 well and seemed surprised that I found these coins at all in this park.
Other units can go this deep easily so I believe finding these coins had more to do with this...
I happened to roll over this area that had the coins and even though it was a pretty bouncy signal I still heard and saw something in the audio and the screen info that made me dig it so maybe he was right.
Me and the F70 are just beginning this journey together but we already seem to be getting along very well and I expect this relationship to evolve over time.
You better believe this old park will be at least one site we will be spending as much time as we can together.
There has to be way more laying around here than most suspect, I think, and this spill proves it.
I now see that instead of just bending over and digging shallow holes I will be dropping down and digging way deeper ones in the future.
As I continue to learn some of these holes might, probably will, contain trash but I won't mind because some might actually contain some great treasure like this one so I am fine with it.
I wanted to get this F70 to enable me to evolve to a new phase in hunting and my career and go deeper and find older, better targets at those deeper areas and on every hunt I can see that I picked the right tool to do exactly that.
Plus, all this new learning and deeper digging is much fun for me no matter what I am finding in these deeper holes...trash or treasure.
A 1915 wheatie and 3 Indians a 1901, 1902 and an 1887.
Story here...
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=177416
I rolled over this spill using the 11" DD coil, (thank you Captain Silver!), in DE, 4H tones at first then changed to 1F to check it out a bit more, sense was about 80 and the thresh was at -1 if I remember correctly.
Using the pinpoint I saw numbers at 7 and 8 on the screen and even though these signals kind of jumped all over the depth was intriguing, and I still heard something solid and sweet in the tone that made me stop and dig a hole, 2 holes, actually, and I am sure glad I did.
I usually hunt on settings a little higher than this but this was near the outside of the park across the street from some very large, majestic but old homes that I believe might have had some wifi set up and I believe there was a power line in the vicinity, also.
The combination of coins, the depth and the interference all added up to a pretty jumpy signal in the numbers on the screen but I still saw flashes in the low 80's and heard some good tones so I dug it...just like I am now programmed to do after using my Tesoro's and my F2 for the past few years.
I posted this over on Findmall and knarfj, who also hunts with an F70, mentioned something about using different tones for the best depth possible so I replied and I will re-post my feelings and conclusions about this below.
Every hunt I am still experimenting and learning new things that are changing my world and the way I hunt.
Every great find seems to open my eyes a bit more to what this thing is capable of and I am still at the very beginning of that learning curve.
Scary to think what this thing will find for me this year as I continue to progress and adapt.
knarfj said:
According to all that stuff I posted from Nasa Tom, I believe he seems to think that 1 tone will give you the best audio response on deep targets if you are set up correctly, no matter what is going on while looking at the screen, and of course AT is very deep and pretty accurate, too.
Since I am looking to go as deep as possible this year and find some older coins I find myself needing to adapt to a new way of hunting with the F70.
Using the F2 I rarely dug signals that jumped too much on the screen more than 2 numbers, although I do realize that targets deep could very well do that.
I also didn't use my 10" coil all that much that could reach down deeper since jewelry was my goal and trashy sites were my preferred areas to hunt.
When I do hunt for clad and jewelry and even if I happen to move into trashy sites using the 11" DD coil or any coils I usually set the thing up closer to mud's settings with the sense down closer to 60, thresh in the negative numbers and use my favorite 4H tones because it is similar to hunting with the F2.
Hunting like this I can revert to my old way of not looking at the screen and just listening for good, solid repeating tones and then check out the screen to see what I am scanning and that still seems to work for me.
On one of my first hunts with the 10" elliptical that 4H setting those nickel high tones really helped to alert me to a nice nickel signal and even though it was right next to trash it made me stop and go back to look at the screen and move the coil around the area to examine it better and I ended up digging a nice gold ring and paid for 1/3 of the cost of the F70 new with that one target.
Messing around on my last few hunts and playing with the tones I found I do like 2F for hunting in areas for depth and with some iron like hunting old horse trails up a mountain looking for old silver coins that also has several horseshoes and nails to contend with.
I have tried the 1 tone setting and I do think that actually does give a great audio response on the deepies, but for me it is actually fatiguing listing to that one tone and I think I like the 1F and 2F setting better because it is more modulated in that tone and seems to be less tiring for some reason.
On all these lower tone settings I had to retrain myself to not only listen for the good tones but actually look at the screen while I hunt which is way different for me.
I can usually tell most of the iron and a lot of the foil trash and avoid it but I especially don't want to miss any targets with odd numbers because who knows what they can be...maybe something deep and cool, and now I have to look at the screen way more to notice these.
Now in this park, which is pretty old and has much history but not a huge amount of iron, depth is what I was aiming for on this hunt.
This signal was way more bouncy in the numbers than anything I would have considered digging with my F2 and my 10" coil, although that would have been a mistake.
When I ran over this in 4H tones I did hear a few high tone signals and now I do remember switching over to 1F to check it out further and even though the numbers were still pretty bouncy, (due to the fact there were multiple coins and that copper wheatie in that first hole), I did hear a couple of nice high tones still.
At this point since I am still experimenting with different tones on strange signals I usually would have tried a few more things like switching to SL would have made too much noise I suspect because of the high EMI at this particular area, or I would have moved over to program 2 which I have set up in AT with high sense and threshold in the positive range which I use to check out deeper signals for more info, but I didn't do any of that because it was in the lower 40's with some heavy wind gusts close to 50MPH and I was just starting this hunt but was already feeling the cold.
I heard a few good high tones in 4H, got some decent solid sounding tones switching to 1F and even though I had some real jumpy numbers I still saw some numbers flash into the low 80's on my screen, I did use the pinpoint button to get a depth reading and I saw 7 and 8 numbers on the screen and that was enough so I stopped, dropped and dug and found the greatest coin spill of my career so far.
Would I have had the same signal on coins this deep using the 10" elliptical coil, I have no idea.
I know that coil goes pretty deep but not quite as deep as the 11" DD or maybe it might but the tone and screen info could well be different.
So far I have dug one deep target with that standard coil at 10" in this same park which was a beaver tail tab and was a one way hit only, actually a high tone but solid, and there were absolutely no numbers flashing on the screen at all which I have learned the F70 will do when targets are at the very end of its range, or with that coil it will act that way and I believe I read that the same thing will occur using the other coils.
All I know is I learned a few things on this one.
When searching deep in not so trashy and older areas I will be using that 11" dd coil exclusively.
I will probably use the 1F and 2F tone settings to do this hunting these type of sites most of the time.
I will make an effort to look at that screen on most signals so I can notice at least that first number that flashes which Tom seems to think would be more of a correct and accurate one.
The numbers on the screen don't matter anywhere as near as much as the tones I hear.
I will set my sense as high as possible and try to get the thresh into the positive numbers when I am able because even though it does skew the audio signal a bit it bothers me way less than it would using 4H tones.
The thresh also needs to be as high as possible because all signals get louder as you turn up that setting and I want to hear as much of everything I can at all times so I always have my volume turned to max on the F70 and my Killer B's headphones, too.
I did not notice what the confidence meter was doing on this dig but I will try to notice that from now on because I read that can give you some good information too...sometimes.
When in doubt, dig it, especially on the deep ones...it is the only true way to know what you are actually scanning and deeper targets can act weird and can act skittish, even the good ones.
I was told by people in my MD club that this park is "hunted out" and nobody has found anything but modern clad and maybe some modern jewelry in quite awhile.
Strange to me because this thing has history as a golf course and a park going back to the late 1800's, also a civil war battle took place on this site, and it is 74 acres large so I can't wrap my head around that idea at all.
I am sure that this place has been hunted with E-Tracs and other deep units but no matter what there is no way every square inch has been covered.
My MD club has a local forum and after posting about this spill the president said I am really getting along with this F70 well and seemed surprised that I found these coins at all in this park.
Other units can go this deep easily so I believe finding these coins had more to do with this...
I happened to roll over this area that had the coins and even though it was a pretty bouncy signal I still heard and saw something in the audio and the screen info that made me dig it so maybe he was right.
Me and the F70 are just beginning this journey together but we already seem to be getting along very well and I expect this relationship to evolve over time.
You better believe this old park will be at least one site we will be spending as much time as we can together.
There has to be way more laying around here than most suspect, I think, and this spill proves it.
I now see that instead of just bending over and digging shallow holes I will be dropping down and digging way deeper ones in the future.
As I continue to learn some of these holes might, probably will, contain trash but I won't mind because some might actually contain some great treasure like this one so I am fine with it.
I wanted to get this F70 to enable me to evolve to a new phase in hunting and my career and go deeper and find older, better targets at those deeper areas and on every hunt I can see that I picked the right tool to do exactly that.
Plus, all this new learning and deeper digging is much fun for me no matter what I am finding in these deeper holes...trash or treasure.
So you have put the 10'' coil away for now? And did you have this hunt on film? thanks. And haven't had a chance to read all the info here on this thread yet just had a glance over but WOW at all the useful info for the F70 and F75 users. Been working long hours and not hunting much lately but plan to do some tearouts tmw. Also im thinking about a water machine this year. Which would you get if money was not a problem?
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
Put away the 10" coil forever...probably not.
I hunt many different kinds of sites and some of them have a billion pop tops at all different depths and I hate dealing with a ton of those using a DD coil all day so that one will be used when hunting open areas and the sniper when I get near heavy trash.
If I am at sites where I might come across both site types and don't want to carry or switch to the sniper mid hunt the 10" should work pretty darn well and is a good compromise with it's shape and disc and separation abilities in trash.
I actually did have the GoPro with me, charged up and in my pocket the whole time but it was so cold and windy I figured the wind noise might cause a problem and I just didn't feel like messing with it...but since I found this spill I now wish I did.
Water machines, yea I have been thinking about them too.
Hunting in fresh water is a little easier than salt but the million fishhooks you might come across don't really dissolve in that like they do in saltwater over time so something with disc is probably the best way to go.
I am a Tesoro fan so the Tigershark is something I would consider, although there are many other decent units out there, too.
Depth is important, but a PI unit might or might not be overkill for some freshwater sites, and then there is that dig it all stuff you usually have to do with those.
Money is no object?
The Excaliber II gets some pretty high marks from some very successful hunters.
DIGGER27
In Memory Of
You want depth?...I'll show you depth!
Once again out to the old park where I found that tribe of Indians.
Still a bit cold and a little frozen ground in some areas but I have to see if I can find me a Barber around here.
When I got there I get my gear on and discover I left my Lesche at home in the garage.
I make a 4 mile trip to the nearest Ace Hardware and pick up another digger that worked pretty good for the $5.99 I spent.
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=177898
I get back and start donning my gear and now I discover my Propointer is missing.
That I know I had but now I can't find it so I start walking down to the area I first parked hoping it is maybe there next to the curb but no dice.
I get back to the truck and find it sitting in the side pocket of the passenger door where it had rolled into.
Whew!
Then I pull out my F70, turn it on and pick up the headphones only to discover that something is rolling around in the right hand side.
It was the magnet and now I can't hear out of that side anymore.
"Sigh".
These are my lighter weight phones I have been using for a couple of years, very good for the hotter, summer months and made by Sony for listening to all sorts of media.
All other cheaper sets I have tried sound way "muddier" by comparison.
I got them on sale at Sears for about $22, they are usually in the $30 range and in the last few years I have seen the price on these go up to over $50 on some sites...way over that price at a few.
Don't know why, they are good but not top end but now mine are toast so maybe I will pick up another pair for the summer from this site.
http://www.overstock.com/Electronic...onitor-Stereo-Headphones/2703031/product.html
They actually sound great, clear as a bell and the best cheap pair I have ever tried although the cord is about 8' long but I just rolled it up, left enough cord sticking out that I needed and just used a velcro strap and attached it to the upper handle of my detectors.
I have a set of Killer B's but there is a problem with the plug and it cuts out so time to use the lifetime warranty and send it in, I guess.
This hobby is supposed to relieve stress, not cause it, but my day started out not so stress free with all these problems.
Finally I get on with the hunt and walked over to the area where I found that tribe which is a pretty wide grassy area between the street and a curving sidewalk on the edge of this large park.
Some dirt is fine for digging, some is still a bit frozen so I decide I am just going to wander around this area, hold off on the gridding till spring, and hopefully come across some deeper signals at the 7-8" depth mark or more and just dig those in case they might be older coins.
I was looking for high tone signals in the 70's and 80's, and I was also looking for more Indians which came in around 54 on the F70, zinc.
Silver war nickels or some older buffs would have been nice too, so I was watching for numbers in the high 20's to low 30's, also.
Today I planned on messing around with the settings because we have been having some discussions on Findmall about the best tones to find the deeper targets.
Rocket Tom says monotone will give you the best audio no matter what the numbers say on the screen, a few other F70 owners have been messing around with 1F and 2F and I have been too and I like those a lot.
I was using the 11" DD coil and my settings were set here because on the edge of this park across the street from some big older homes I was getting some EMI from somewhere and maxing this thing out was too noisy.
Sense at 70-80, DE, thresh at 0 or 1, disc at 4 for a little boost in sensitivity you get below 5, and 1F tones, but I kept playing with those and switched around to 1, 2F, 3, and 4H to examine a few of those deeper hits.
Program 2 on my F70 is set on AT and just about everything is maxed in case I need to examine those deep ones further, but this was really noisy at this side of the park.
I also screwed around with all 7 frequency settings looking for the best, quietest one but they all seemed about the same so I left it on #3 and stuck with that most of the day.
There was a lot of iron here in all sizes, 2F was very handy for hunting here I found out quickly because I could easily hear those iron grunts, but 1 tone and 1F worked pretty well, too, and I am still getting used to looking at the screen while I hunt using all of these lower settings which is different than hunting with my F2 where I never look at the screen till I hear a solid tone.
When coin hunting in less trashy areas I still use 4H and that works well and I can revert back to my old hunting style.
There was a lot of foil and little pieces of can slaw here so eventually I tuned the disc up to the low 20's and don't recall noticing any decrease in depth, I still came across plenty of signals at 6" and way past that.
I never really came across any older coins in this area this time, some modern clad ranging from shallow to about 5" deep, a Pokemon Battle coin, a Nidoqueen, and a few other targets at the 6-8" range that ID'd pretty solid but they were can slaw, tabs or other junk type items every time.
On all the deeper ones I did a little switching between the tone choices and I could not see one doing any better or more exact as another...they all seemed to work well including 4H.
After awhile I got bored with this area and the people staring at me as they walked by on the sidewalk, I also had to answer that same old question about 4 times, "Find anything good?", so I took a walk over into the center of the park where I know from past trips there is less EMI to deal with.
At this point I maxed the thing out to 9 on the thresh, 99 on the sense, still in DE because SL was way to noisy and still continued to use 1F.
Way less signals here but I got a few more shallow ones and dug some modern clad, a few deepies that were tabs or can slaw again, still looking for that one great signal with an old coin at the end of it.
I did dig a bell that was about 8-9" deep but it has some sort of plastic at the top that attached to something so I don't think it is way old and then I came across this signal that is the reason for this post.
This signal was loud and clear and repeated from all angles.
I can't say the F70 actually locked onto it completely because on the screen I saw some jumpy numbers from the low 20's to the 40's, but there seemed to be numbers in the range of 23-26 more often than those others.
Changing to other tone settings I got the same thing, one wasn't any more stable than any other, but those same mid range 20 numbers kept popping up.
I think I moved over to program 2 and used my maxed out AT settings and got the same.
Now I know that the F70 can find some pretty deep stuff and might give you a tone, maybe one way maybe from more than one, but at the very end of the scanning range you might not see anything on the screen at all...like it won't even want to guess, but I got numbers on the screen the whole time on this one.
Here is the kicker, when I hit that pinpoint button, depending on slight movements of the coil and from a couple different angles, I was seeing numbers between 10-14 flash on the screen.
Woah, that is deep, and on anything that deep, deeper than about 5-6" anyway, I don't really believe anything I see on the screen at all so all targets have to be dug and extracted to actually know for sure.
Not sure I really believe the screen on any target at any depth but this thing does seem to be pretty good up top about 8"...but being new with this thing I still dig most of them whether it is trash or good numbers to be sure.
This thing was deep, pretty solid, repeated and I just had to see what it was so I laid down my towel and started digging.
The new cheap digger worked well, got a ton of dirt out of the hole pretty quickly and at about the 6" mark I started checking with the Propointer.
Still deeper so I kept digging and checking along the way.
It finally got to the point that the whole pinpointer was in the hole and still I had to go deeper.
Eventually I got down so deep that my whole digger was in the hole, the top of the handle was exactly even with the top of the hole.
Still didn't find whatever this thing was yet but the Propointer said I was real close and another inch of dirt broken up at the bottom, maybe 2, and then grabbed with my gloved hand and pulled out I saw something silvery down there.
Could this be silver jewelry?
I didn't think so with those mid 20's numbers, but who knows what kind of info I would get on something this deep so I stuck my hand in and pulled it out.
NOT silver jewelry but I believe this is the thumb button off an old style bell like kids put on their handlebars of their bicycles.
What the heck it was doing down there so deep I have no idea but there it was, plain as day.
I threw the digger back in the hole and even if the edge went down into the bottom a bit more than where this thing was living there was still 1 1/2 to 2 inches of space between the top of the handle and the top of the hole.
I thought that digger was about 11" long, maybe 12" looking at it but after doing a bit of research and actually measuring the thing this morning I discovered this thing is actually 13" in length.
That means this object was dwelling every bit of 13-14" down there.
Actually more like 14-15".
I knew the F70 realized something was down there and at the time I didn't believe that 14 number on my pinpointing but now I am dumfounded.
Air testing this thing actually does show up in the 23-25 area on the screen so it was pretty accurate on that too, if I go by the most prominent numbers I was seeing on the screen.
Every single time I go out with this thing it seems to amaze and thrill me.
Now I know that it might or might not give me tons of reliable info on the screen at all times but when it rolls over something deep it knows it and sees it and can tell me in some way.
To see something like this at these numbers at this depth bodes well.
It is a little bigger than a coin, maybe slightly thicker too, but still...
If there is anything including nickels out there lying deep beware!
I know for sure now I got a machine that can find you.
Once again out to the old park where I found that tribe of Indians.
Still a bit cold and a little frozen ground in some areas but I have to see if I can find me a Barber around here.
When I got there I get my gear on and discover I left my Lesche at home in the garage.
I make a 4 mile trip to the nearest Ace Hardware and pick up another digger that worked pretty good for the $5.99 I spent.
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=177898
I get back and start donning my gear and now I discover my Propointer is missing.
That I know I had but now I can't find it so I start walking down to the area I first parked hoping it is maybe there next to the curb but no dice.
I get back to the truck and find it sitting in the side pocket of the passenger door where it had rolled into.
Whew!
Then I pull out my F70, turn it on and pick up the headphones only to discover that something is rolling around in the right hand side.
It was the magnet and now I can't hear out of that side anymore.
"Sigh".
These are my lighter weight phones I have been using for a couple of years, very good for the hotter, summer months and made by Sony for listening to all sorts of media.
All other cheaper sets I have tried sound way "muddier" by comparison.
I got them on sale at Sears for about $22, they are usually in the $30 range and in the last few years I have seen the price on these go up to over $50 on some sites...way over that price at a few.
Don't know why, they are good but not top end but now mine are toast so maybe I will pick up another pair for the summer from this site.
http://www.overstock.com/Electronic...onitor-Stereo-Headphones/2703031/product.html
They actually sound great, clear as a bell and the best cheap pair I have ever tried although the cord is about 8' long but I just rolled it up, left enough cord sticking out that I needed and just used a velcro strap and attached it to the upper handle of my detectors.
I have a set of Killer B's but there is a problem with the plug and it cuts out so time to use the lifetime warranty and send it in, I guess.
This hobby is supposed to relieve stress, not cause it, but my day started out not so stress free with all these problems.
Finally I get on with the hunt and walked over to the area where I found that tribe which is a pretty wide grassy area between the street and a curving sidewalk on the edge of this large park.
Some dirt is fine for digging, some is still a bit frozen so I decide I am just going to wander around this area, hold off on the gridding till spring, and hopefully come across some deeper signals at the 7-8" depth mark or more and just dig those in case they might be older coins.
I was looking for high tone signals in the 70's and 80's, and I was also looking for more Indians which came in around 54 on the F70, zinc.
Silver war nickels or some older buffs would have been nice too, so I was watching for numbers in the high 20's to low 30's, also.
Today I planned on messing around with the settings because we have been having some discussions on Findmall about the best tones to find the deeper targets.
Rocket Tom says monotone will give you the best audio no matter what the numbers say on the screen, a few other F70 owners have been messing around with 1F and 2F and I have been too and I like those a lot.
I was using the 11" DD coil and my settings were set here because on the edge of this park across the street from some big older homes I was getting some EMI from somewhere and maxing this thing out was too noisy.
Sense at 70-80, DE, thresh at 0 or 1, disc at 4 for a little boost in sensitivity you get below 5, and 1F tones, but I kept playing with those and switched around to 1, 2F, 3, and 4H to examine a few of those deeper hits.
Program 2 on my F70 is set on AT and just about everything is maxed in case I need to examine those deep ones further, but this was really noisy at this side of the park.
I also screwed around with all 7 frequency settings looking for the best, quietest one but they all seemed about the same so I left it on #3 and stuck with that most of the day.
There was a lot of iron here in all sizes, 2F was very handy for hunting here I found out quickly because I could easily hear those iron grunts, but 1 tone and 1F worked pretty well, too, and I am still getting used to looking at the screen while I hunt using all of these lower settings which is different than hunting with my F2 where I never look at the screen till I hear a solid tone.
When coin hunting in less trashy areas I still use 4H and that works well and I can revert back to my old hunting style.
There was a lot of foil and little pieces of can slaw here so eventually I tuned the disc up to the low 20's and don't recall noticing any decrease in depth, I still came across plenty of signals at 6" and way past that.
I never really came across any older coins in this area this time, some modern clad ranging from shallow to about 5" deep, a Pokemon Battle coin, a Nidoqueen, and a few other targets at the 6-8" range that ID'd pretty solid but they were can slaw, tabs or other junk type items every time.
On all the deeper ones I did a little switching between the tone choices and I could not see one doing any better or more exact as another...they all seemed to work well including 4H.
After awhile I got bored with this area and the people staring at me as they walked by on the sidewalk, I also had to answer that same old question about 4 times, "Find anything good?", so I took a walk over into the center of the park where I know from past trips there is less EMI to deal with.
At this point I maxed the thing out to 9 on the thresh, 99 on the sense, still in DE because SL was way to noisy and still continued to use 1F.
Way less signals here but I got a few more shallow ones and dug some modern clad, a few deepies that were tabs or can slaw again, still looking for that one great signal with an old coin at the end of it.
I did dig a bell that was about 8-9" deep but it has some sort of plastic at the top that attached to something so I don't think it is way old and then I came across this signal that is the reason for this post.
This signal was loud and clear and repeated from all angles.
I can't say the F70 actually locked onto it completely because on the screen I saw some jumpy numbers from the low 20's to the 40's, but there seemed to be numbers in the range of 23-26 more often than those others.
Changing to other tone settings I got the same thing, one wasn't any more stable than any other, but those same mid range 20 numbers kept popping up.
I think I moved over to program 2 and used my maxed out AT settings and got the same.
Now I know that the F70 can find some pretty deep stuff and might give you a tone, maybe one way maybe from more than one, but at the very end of the scanning range you might not see anything on the screen at all...like it won't even want to guess, but I got numbers on the screen the whole time on this one.
Here is the kicker, when I hit that pinpoint button, depending on slight movements of the coil and from a couple different angles, I was seeing numbers between 10-14 flash on the screen.
Woah, that is deep, and on anything that deep, deeper than about 5-6" anyway, I don't really believe anything I see on the screen at all so all targets have to be dug and extracted to actually know for sure.
Not sure I really believe the screen on any target at any depth but this thing does seem to be pretty good up top about 8"...but being new with this thing I still dig most of them whether it is trash or good numbers to be sure.
This thing was deep, pretty solid, repeated and I just had to see what it was so I laid down my towel and started digging.
The new cheap digger worked well, got a ton of dirt out of the hole pretty quickly and at about the 6" mark I started checking with the Propointer.
Still deeper so I kept digging and checking along the way.
It finally got to the point that the whole pinpointer was in the hole and still I had to go deeper.
Eventually I got down so deep that my whole digger was in the hole, the top of the handle was exactly even with the top of the hole.
Still didn't find whatever this thing was yet but the Propointer said I was real close and another inch of dirt broken up at the bottom, maybe 2, and then grabbed with my gloved hand and pulled out I saw something silvery down there.
Could this be silver jewelry?
I didn't think so with those mid 20's numbers, but who knows what kind of info I would get on something this deep so I stuck my hand in and pulled it out.
NOT silver jewelry but I believe this is the thumb button off an old style bell like kids put on their handlebars of their bicycles.
What the heck it was doing down there so deep I have no idea but there it was, plain as day.
I threw the digger back in the hole and even if the edge went down into the bottom a bit more than where this thing was living there was still 1 1/2 to 2 inches of space between the top of the handle and the top of the hole.
I thought that digger was about 11" long, maybe 12" looking at it but after doing a bit of research and actually measuring the thing this morning I discovered this thing is actually 13" in length.
That means this object was dwelling every bit of 13-14" down there.
Actually more like 14-15".
I knew the F70 realized something was down there and at the time I didn't believe that 14 number on my pinpointing but now I am dumfounded.
Air testing this thing actually does show up in the 23-25 area on the screen so it was pretty accurate on that too, if I go by the most prominent numbers I was seeing on the screen.
Every single time I go out with this thing it seems to amaze and thrill me.
Now I know that it might or might not give me tons of reliable info on the screen at all times but when it rolls over something deep it knows it and sees it and can tell me in some way.
To see something like this at these numbers at this depth bodes well.
It is a little bigger than a coin, maybe slightly thicker too, but still...
If there is anything including nickels out there lying deep beware!
I know for sure now I got a machine that can find you.
Attachments
Similar threads
