1850's era rifle shells with no headstamp

[SteveCollins]

Anyone have a guess as to the manufacturer and/or date of these rifle rounds?

Found in a remote area in the Santa Cruz Mountains, coastal California, near an iron plate with raised letters reading "PT'D JUNE 20, 1854", along with some other items that seem to date from the gold rush era.

The cartridges have no headstamp as far as I can tell. They are centerfire, with a rim 13 mm in diameter and 1.4 mm thick. The body of the casing is 12 mm in diameter and approximately 32 mm long (most are shattered). The ball is cylindrical and seems to be made of lead, measuring about 11.7 mm in diameter and 16.5 mm long, with two inset rings.

I've poked around a bit online to try to find info on casings without a headstamp, but haven't found anything that looks right (or really much of anything at all). Probably a long shot, but thought I would throw it out there since you all know a great deal about this stuff.

Also, if you have any tips for cleaning up old casings to get a better view of any markings, please let me know!

[I'm new to the forum, so my apologies if I mis-stepped at all, please just let me know!]

 

[EmuDetector]

Posted it on my cartridge collecting site. They had a topic a while back about something similar, someone will know it. I'll chime in if I get an answer

 

[Reelfoot Relics]

Looks like a .45 Long Colt. Very popular Old West cartridge. Still popular today.

 

[Iggyks]

Whatever fired that had a huge firing pin!

 

[JCR]

What is the bullet's weight in Grains? .45 Colt would be around 250 gr., .45 Government 330-405 gr.

 

[EmuDetector]

Best guess was 45 colt from the site I'm on.

 

[Longhair]

.44-40Win was popular long before .45Colt, primarily because it was easy to convert percussion .44's to .44-40. And even early lever-action rifles were chambered in .44-40, making it a common companion rifle.

 

[Longhair]

If you have a micrometer or dial indicators you could take measurements with it would be much more useful than metric measurements with a stick.

Older .45Colt bullets were .452" in diameter, while newer ones are .454".
Original .44-40Win bullets are .427", while newer .44SPL and .44MAG are .430".

 

[SteveCollins]

If you have a micrometer or dial indicators you could take measurements with it would be much more useful than metric measurements with a stick.

Older .45Colt bullets were .452" in diameter, while newer ones are .454".
Original .44-40Win bullets are .427", while newer .44SPL and .44MAG are .430".

Thank you, Longhair, for the heads up! More precise measurements are:

Diameter: 0.469"
Rim diameter: 0.515"
Length: 1.282"

Primer diameter: 0.164"
Firing pin indentation diameter: 0.0935"

Projectile mass: 12.54 grams = 194 grain

Measured several places at several orientations and the result was consistent. Used good digital calipers (images attached). I don't suppose the aging process can affect these dimensions?

Thanks again for sharing your expertise!

 

[SteveCollins]

What is the bullet's weight in Grains? .45 Colt would be around 250 gr., .45 Government 330-405 gr.

Thanks, JCR, for taking a look! The projectile mass is 194 grains. I suppose some of the material may have fallen away due to the aging process? The front and rear surfaces look pretty rough. Appreciate the thoughts.

 

[SteveCollins]

Thank you, EmuDetector, Reelfoot Relics, Iggyks, JCR, and Longhair, it's great to hear your thoughts! Apologies for the slow reply, didn't have alerts on.

 

[Longhair]

Thanks, JCR, for taking a look! The projectile mass is 194 grains. I suppose some of the material may have fallen away due to the aging process? The front and rear surfaces look pretty rough. Appreciate the thoughts.

Common weight for .44-40Win bullets is 205gr.

I was just recalling numbers off the top of my head on bullet sizes. I'll have to dig out my books to get OD of the case mouths.......or measure one of my fired cases.

 

[JCR]

Looking at the bullet's flat nose meplat & given the weight, probably .44 WCF. The rim diameter will be a positive ID. I am without my references here at work.

 

[Longhair]

Looking at the bullet's flat nose meplat & given the weight, probably .44 WCF. The rim diameter will be a positive ID. I am without my references here at work.

Flat noses are prevalent on cartridges used in tube-fed rifles like lever-actions. You really don't want the point of one round against the primer of another round when they all jump backwards as the action is operated. That gets ugly real quick!

 

[JCR]

Yup