What to do? Advice

[Mntnclmbr]

Whatcha waitin for?

I did a similar thing waiting and waiting, only to find out they gave permission to another guy the day before since they had ok'd detecting

 

[Cylon_Detector]

Update: So I spoke again to my contact at the BOCES organization, oddly enough he's in charge of the Health & Safety department. He said he's run it up the channels to the higher ups and still hasn't heard anything. I asked him if it might be better to contact the school district as they own the building and property and he said I could try that. He seemed a bit miffed that I called again, so I apologized and he said it wasn't a problem and he totally understands. A very nice guy.

Immediately after I called the Superintendents office, and spoke to the extremely friendly receptionist there. I explained that I am an amateur historian and MDer and that I live in the town that the school is in. I also told her that I'm neat, discrete and take care to ensure that I don't damage the land. I also told them that I'd love to give them anything historically interesting pertaining to the school(s) and show them my finds. She seemed really into it, and said it sounded interesting and great and as far as she knew it wouldn't be a problem.

I know she's only the receptionist, though, so she doesn't have authority. She took my name and number and said she'd ask the Superintendent, who at the time of my call was in a meeting, and get back to me in a little while.

This school district is in charge of 5 of the major schools operating in the county here, so finding out more and trying to get permission will give me a good idea of the scope of things and I'll definitely know that schools are fair game, or a really bad idea to even think about MDing at in my area.

Fingers crossed!

 

[SeabeeRon]

Update: So I spoke again to my contact at the BOCES organization, oddly enough he's in charge of the Health & Safety department. He said he's run it up the channels to the higher ups and still hasn't heard anything. I asked him if it might be better to contact the school district as they own the building and property and he said I could try that. He seemed a bit miffed that I called again, so I apologized and he said it wasn't a problem and he totally understands. A very nice guy.

Immediately after I called the Superintendents office, and spoke to the extremely friendly receptionist there. I explained that I am an amateur historian and MDer and that I live in the town that the school is in. I also told her that I'm neat, discrete and take care to ensure that I don't damage the land. I also told them that I'd love to give them anything historically interesting pertaining to the school(s) and show them my finds. She seemed really into it, and said it sounded interesting and great and as far as she knew it wouldn't be a problem.

I know she's only the receptionist, though, so she doesn't have authority. She took my name and number and said she'd ask the Superintendent, who at the time of my call was in a meeting, and get back to me in a little while.

This school district is in charge of 5 of the major schools operating in the county here, so finding out more and trying to get permission will give me a good idea of the scope of things and I'll definitely know that schools are fair game, or a really bad idea to even think about MDing at in my area.

Fingers crossed!

Sounds like you are handling things in well organized manner.

 

[NectarDetector]

Well done man, that's how you do it. Just be patient, and keep doing the right thing. Hopefully your efforts will be rewarded, if not, you can still rest knowing that you went about it the right way!

 

[Cylon_Detector]

Update: The superintendent has denied my request due to what they said are "liability issues." No idea what that means. Oh well. The sweet treasures of the school yards will have to stay buried for now I guess.

 

[NectarDetector]

Update: The superintendent has denied my request due to what they said are "liability issues." No idea what that means. Oh well. The sweet treasures of the school yards will have to stay buried for now I guess.

Fair enough, you did the right thing and at the end of the day you can rest well knowing that! On to the next honey hole!

 

[Ice Scratcher]

Update: The superintendent has denied my request due to what they said are "liability issues." No idea what that means. Oh well. The sweet treasures of the school yards will have to stay buried for now I guess.

They won't stay buried, somebody else that didn't ask, or hear the word "no" will probably get some if not most of them another day...

Just the way your cookie crumbled I guess....

<*)))>{

 

[Cylon_Detector]

Hmmm now it will be doubly confusing if the BOCES staffer/higher ups grant me permission. I have a feeling it will get from them to the superintendent and then back to me for a double "no sir." but who knows. It is the BOCES program that uses the place in the summer and it is they that are having the interior redone.

Should I dig if the BOCES people say yes, but the Superintendent representing the owners of the building and property says no?

 

[Crackerjack]

As a former sales rep, I can tell you that when you told the receptionist your business, and didn't talk to the superintendent in person, you screwed-up. You needed to sell yourself to the superintendent, not the receptionist, and you can't overcome an objection by remote control. You should have made an appointment to meet personally with the superintendent, then sold yourself. At that point, if he/she raised objections, you could have overcome them. As far as overcoming a "liability" issue, there are two different ways to handle that.

1) If the concern is that you could get injured on school property and sue the schools, agree to sign a waiver of liability form for them,

2) If the concern is that you would create a trip hazard that someone else could get injured with and sue the school, you can agree to use only low impact methods or only recover surface finds, so no hazard would be created.

Now that the superintendent has made a decision on the matter, getting him/her to meet with you and discuss the decision will be near impossible. If you do somehow get to meet with the superintendent, be prepared to overcome the liability objection, as well as others, because no executive likes to change a decision once they have made one--he/she will likely throw out other objections to support the "NO" decision already made.

GL

 

[Tom_in_CA]

They won't stay buried, somebody else that didn't ask, or hear the word "no" will probably get some if not most of them another day...

Hey ice-scratcher, here would be an interesting experiment: Take a sample school, in a sample city, which has been detected to ad-naseum for many years. Ie.: a city where it's always simply been a given, and it's never occurred to those locals that they "needed permission". Why? Perhaps their predecessors before them had simply gone there, and it just always was without any issue.

Then here would be the experiment: Go to upper staff pencil pushers, and ask permission. See what they say.

 

[Ice Scratcher]

Then here would be the experiment: Go to upper staff pencil pushers, and ask permission. See what they say.

We both know what the answer would be....

That's about as much as of an experiment as seeing if the same type of paper burns different at night vs day...

<*)))>{

 

[NectarDetector]

As a former sales rep, I can tell you that when you told the receptionist your business, and didn't talk to the superintendent in person, you screwed-up. You needed to sell yourself to the superintendent, not the receptionist, and you can't overcome an objection by remote control. You should have made an appointment to meet personally with the superintendent, then sold yourself. At that point, if he/she raised objections, you could have overcome them. As far as overcoming a "liability" issue, there are two different ways to handle that.

1) If the concern is that you could get injured on school property and sue the schools, agree to sign a waiver of liability form for them,

2) If the concern is that you would create a trip hazard that someone else could get injured with and sue the school, you can agree to use only low impact methods or only recover surface finds, so no hazard would be created.

Now that the superintendent has made a decision on the matter, getting him/her to meet with you and discuss the decision will be near impossible. If you do somehow get to meet with the superintendent, be prepared to overcome the liability objection, as well as others, because no executive likes to change a decision once they have made one--he/she will likely throw out other objections to support the "NO" decision already made.

GL

agree to sign a waiver of liability form for them

That doesn't matter, you can still sue them , even if you signed a waiver...

http://businessinsure.about.com/od/insurancepoliciesandlaw/a/relforms.htm

""By having a patron sign a waiver, they can't sue me." Wrong. A release or waiver does nothing more than shift some legal and technical presumptions from you to the injured party to prove. In some cases, with adequate supporting state law, a waiver may support a motion to dismiss the case, but it does not eliminate the right to sue."

 

[Tom_in_CA]

agree to sign a waiver of liability form for them

That doesn't matter, you can still sue them , even if you signed a waiver...

http://businessinsure.about.com/od/insurancepoliciesandlaw/a/relforms.htm

""By having a patron sign a waiver, they can't sue me." Wrong. A release or waiver does nothing more than shift some legal and technical presumptions from you to the injured party to prove. In some cases, with adequate supporting state law, a waiver may support a motion to dismiss the case, but it does not eliminate the right to sue."

You're right Nectar. And I would add the following: The reality of the "liability" answer, is that the person .... simply doesn't want to be bothered. Can you blame them? Example:

I own a business. As such, I carry $1,000,000 liability insurance on myself. One time we heard the liability song and dance as the reason for getting a "no" at a demolition site. So I gleefully announced to the guy that I could call my secretary, who would call my insurance agent, and have a proof-of-insurance certificate faxed to his desk in 3 minutes.

So you tell me: Do you think that changed his "no" to a "yes" ? OF COURSE NOT. He wanted nothing to do with it. And got a little irritated with me for even elongating the conversation. So the truth is, they're just finding a quick go-to reason, to deflect you most of the time.

 

[stewart73]

Update: The superintendent has denied my request due to what they said are "liability issues." No idea what that means. Oh well. The sweet treasures of the school yards will have to stay buried for now I guess.

It happens sometimes. Not the end of the world however, I'm sure there are plenty of other areas you can try. It's when we go in with the idea that detecting every last plot of grass in the land is our inherent right (like some here do) then heartache and outrage can be the result from a negative answer. I don't treat it as that big of a deal...plenty of other spots, and in the end, it IS only a hobby. I don't torture myself with the hows, whys and wherefores of a negative answer....in the end what difference does it make? It's beyond my control and life is too short to worry about it. I'd rather do it the way you've done it and get a "no" than sneak in for a few hours and then get booted. Good luck at the next spot and good on ya for proceeding with caution and respect.

 

[Kemper]

Yeah I'm all for being cautious and getting all the required permissions. I took a ride over to the school grounds and there are 2 signs posted one that reads "NO TRESPASSING" and another that they put up around all schools about trespassers and people loitering on school grounds being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. While I know these signs are meant to deter vandals, vagrants, and perverts, I didn't enter the grounds. I will be calling the school board tomorrow and going through the necessary channels to get permission. Better to have permission than not.

Keep in mind there is a difference between "No Trespassing" "No Admittance" "No Entry" signs etc. If you see some of our fellow hobbyists detecting there don't automatically assume they are breaking the law or going against the Code of Ethics.

 

[ohiochris]

Yeah I'm all for being cautious and getting all the required permissions. I took a ride over to the school grounds and there are 2 signs posted one that reads "NO TRESPASSING" and another that they put up around all schools about trespassers and people loitering on school grounds being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. While I know these signs are meant to deter vandals, vagrants, and perverts, I didn't enter the grounds. I will be calling the school board tomorrow and going through the necessary channels to get permission. Better to have permission than not.

Ordinarily if its a public school , you are good to go without asking....as long as there are not signs posted.......either no detecting or no trespassing. And of course as long as its not fenced in and gated with a locked gate. Its public property. If there are signs , then its off limits unless you can secure official permission. Signs change everything.

 

[DonJuann]

.....can't detect everywhere!

 

[Ice Scratcher]

Chances are it was pounded 25 years ago anyway..

<*)))>{

 

[itsaring!]

Works for me sometimes. But on some of your digs save the sharp metal, wire, etc. Then see a human in person and show the bad stuff you remove when you detect that could hurt someone if they fell or stepped on it. I can actually dig right in the middle of a football field with permission from the head person in charge. Showed the guy in charge what people were falling on. A pouch full of trash can open doors. I got one side of my pouch I don't clean out. Keep some ziplock baggies of your trash.

 

[Crackerjack]

agree to sign a waiver of liability form for them

That doesn't matter, you can still sue them , even if you signed a waiver...

http://businessinsure.about.com/od/insurancepoliciesandlaw/a/relforms.htm

""By having a patron sign a waiver, they can't sue me." Wrong. A release or waiver does nothing more than shift some legal and technical presumptions from you to the injured party to prove. In some cases, with adequate supporting state law, a waiver may support a motion to dismiss the case, but it does not eliminate the right to sue."

Anyone can sue anyone, that doesn't mean that you will prevail, or that the suit won't be dismissed as frivolous. Did you read the rest of that article? It explains the reason that many of these standard liability forms don't work is because they do not comply with state laws.

From the article that you referenced:

Written releases of liability are generally enforceable and can serve as a powerful defense to personal injury claims.

http://businessinsure.about.com/od/insurancepoliciesandlaw/a/relforms.htm