Not quite sure how to take this

As long as the state archeologists remain civil we should do the same. However, if they decide to target hobbyists for abuse, we might change tactics. One could contact one's state representatives and tell them how the State's archeology dept. is overfunded and overstaffed. These days state governments are looking hard for places to cut the budget. The archeology dept. would be an easy place to start.
 
Items over 50 years old, produced or modified by humans, below the surface of the ground and submerged under water, are archaeological objects. Archaeological objects, and archaeological sites and resources, are protected resources under state statutes.

I guess this means that you're in deep doo-doo if you unearth a rusted slinky, Mr. Potato Head, or a wheat-back penny! :roll:

Good God. In 10 years, a strict interpretation of this law will mean that a buried lava lamp will be considered an archaeological object. Given enough time, even pull tabs will be archaeological objects!

This woman really needs to get a grip. She is clearly unable to distinguish between digging up old coins in someone's yard and tomb desecration. Do you get the feeling that she's a petty tyrant on a crusade?
 
As long as the state archeologists remain civil we should do the same. However, if they decide to target hobbyists for abuse, we might change tactics. One could contact one's state representatives and tell them how the State's archeology dept. is overfunded and overstaffed. These days state governments are looking hard for places to cut the budget. The archeology dept. would be an easy place to start.

Well said!
 
Kris,
Their use of the term "technological by-product" pretty well covers anything. A rusty nail, a bottle cap, or a chip of glass.

(8) "Archaeological object" means an object that comprises the physical evidence of an indigenous and subsequent culture including material remains of past human life including monuments, symbols, tools, facilities, and technological by-products.
 
so if you till the dirt in your garden and happen to pull up well anything then you can be prosicuted as well. beware gardeners their hobby can land them in jail too:spin:. a man (woman) cant medal detect, grow a tomato, sounds like we should all just dig up some cuffs and turn our selvs in. :lol:
 
Maybe I should blow this up.

Maybe I should tell Glenn Beck what the progressives are now up to. I am sure whoever wrote that letter would get canned and then some.
 
Wow!!! That sure was a scolding, and a threat!!!

As for the statement... "There are legal ways to experience the excitement of discovery of our historic past", my official response is... "There are legal ways for the government to experience the confiscation of lost and discarded items on private property. The government can purchase the property, dig up the artifacts and then store them in a back room of a museum for 200 years where nobody will ever get to see them until you decide to spend millions of tax payer dollars on conservation techniques that a regular hobbyist can perform for pennies. Otherwise the government can shut the hell up and quite being obtrusive and overbearing. And as for "protecting" old crap on government land...get over it. You can't save everything ever created on earth. You don't have the room or the money but we, the people, do. You can't even manage the stuff you have stored in the museum store rooms. And you will never get around to digging up most of the stuff we know the where-abouts of, because we will not tell you the where-abouts of it and you are to lazy and busy interfering in peoples lives to look for it yourself". :lol:
 
I got an idea why don't every person on the site place and ad on craiglist. She has time to single just one MD person why not make her work for the money she thinks she wants to threaten with?

She needed a nap that day! :lol:
 
i wouldn't put it past them to do a sting operation on you. the less attention you bring to yourself and metal detecting, the better.
 
Why not advertize on Craig's list from a public library computer claiming that you are a property owner of land that is known for having said items of historical interest and that you are taking offers to metal detect them for a said fee and limited time period. Finder is allowed to keep all unearthed finds!
This will give them a real goose chase! ;)
 
I think I'd pull my ad on Craigslist and forget it. There's plenty of places
to hunt right under your nose. Do some research, talk to other MD ers, old people etc. You'll be surprised what you'll find. HH
 
silver smith has the right idea

Maybe you need to bundle up a bag of 50 year old trash (nails, rusty bottle caps, wire, ect.) and send it to them. Tell them that you found it and are turning it over to them to study.
__________________
I say Damn the government they have gotten OUT OF Control. They dont represent the people they are for special interest groups. Well I am my own special interest group. The last time I checked I pay the mortgage every month so If I want to dig on my property I will.

Do not let this get you down and do not change what you do. I work for the government, and I see crazy laws and abuses every day. WE THE PEOPLE have to stand up and put a stop to it or else we wont have any freedoms.


Ok sorry enough. Can I go back to reading about which pin pointer is better and looking at all the cool beach finds????
 
I Just email Stephinine with my thoughts...

Hello, I have attached an unsolicited responce that you chose to give to a citizen who posted an ad on craigslist. I must tell you that I am very offended by your message. When I read it I see the heavy hand of the government coming down on an individual citizen who is legally pursuing a hobby on private property. I do not endorse nor do I appreciate any government official threatening American citizens in any fashion for any reason. Your desire to "Guard" the peoples treasure for all eternity and to protect unfound items on private property my be honorable, however, your tactics remind me of dictatiorial governments from a long gone era; ie Nazi Germany. It is intrusive forms of laws and regulations such as the ones you spout that are making common people stand up and take notice, and what we see we dont like. Your ideals are not the ones that free thinking people have voted in and will soon be voted out.

I could go on here but I will end by saying that your attempt to intimidate this citizen of Washington state has been heard around the world and it is acts like yours that will soon create REAL change in America. I for one will notify my elected officials and advicate for the reduction of funding for such agencies as yours. I will further demand that such laws be wiped from the books and repalced with logical rules that address the needs of all free people.

Thank you.

Greetings,

We recently noticed your advertisement on Craigslist. Though we have not heard from you directly, as the state agency tasked with protecting archaeological sites and resources for the inspiration and enrichment of the citizens of Washington, we felt it would be productive to contact you directly.


It is our understanding that you are interested in metal detecting lots or yards over 50 years old to find coins, tokens, or relics. Items over 50 years old, produced or modified by humans, below the surface of the ground and submerged under water, are archaeological objects. Archaeological objects, and archaeological sites and resources, are protected resources under state statutes.

In addition, per RCW 27.53.060, a permit is required for any person to knowingly and willfully remove, alter, dig into, excavate or remove an archaeological object or site in the state of Washington.

This statute applies to both public and private lands. Even with landowner permission, a permit from DAHP is required. The permit processes requires a research design, a plan for care and cleaning of the recovered objects, the commitment to write a professional, technical report, and appropriate curation of the artifacts and data recovered. The permit process also requires DAHP to afford interested parties an opportunity to comment on the proposed excavation project, prior to its commencement. These parties typically include affected Indian Tribes, local government, historical societies, landowners, and archaeological peers. Permit application forms are available on our website at http://www.dahp.wa.gov/pages/Archaeology/Permitting.htm.

Failure to obtain such a permit, or failure to comply with any permit conditions, can result in civil penalties in an amount up to $5000 per violation, restoration costs and investigative costs. Furthermore, if burials, cairns, or glyptic records are involved, RCW 27.44 allows the affected Indian Tribe to file claims for damages and emotional distress.

Excavation permits are granted to professional archaeologists who meet the requirements of that definition under RCW 27.53.030(8). While we understand metal detecting is your hobby, much damage has been done to the state’s archaeological resources by hobbyists.

There are legal ways to experience the excitement of discovery of our historic past. The Forest Service operates a program entitled “Passport in Time.” This program affords volunteers the opportunity to participate in real archaeological excavations with professional archaeologists. This includes historic period sites as well as prehistoric. The website link is: http://www.passportintime.com/.

There are some Washington State Parks that are open to metal detecting. Please see the following link for more information: http://www.parks.wa.gov/activities/

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions about the content of this letter. You can find additional information about archaeology in Washington, as well as the laws regarding archaeological excavations on our website at www.dahp.wa.gov.

Sincerely,



Stephenie Kramer
Assistant State Archaeologist
(360) 586-3083
[email protected]
__________________
 
Extremely well stated. And everyone of us should use the email address at the bottom of the letter to do the same as you did.
NOW GET STARTED WRITING THOSE LETTERS!!
 
Sounds good, but you need to email that to her supervisors also. The squeeky wheel may get the greese, but the nail that sticks out gets hit with a hammer!
 
Jason you are correct...

I am one of those mid level guys who have to respond to the squeeky wheels!!!

I am not done with this one yet....

I just didnt want to get all political on such a nice day when all I really wanted to do was digest some fine turkey and looks at everyones nice finds.

I live in Virginia surrounded by Civil War battlefields that I have paid to protect with taxes amd personal donations of support. However, I think it is time for us to stand up to the types of government ninnies who couldnt hold a real job but feel the need to threaten us if we want to dig for junk on somebodies back lot.

anyway Im done for tonight, time for some PIE>>>>>
 
I had thought of asking the same question on CL in my area and I wondered if I would open a can of worms by doing so. I believe you have answered that for me! :research:
 
We are people who happen to have a hobby, I do not believe in hiding that fact. I kept reading on this subject a few guys saying not to bring attention to yourselves and pull the ad, I disagree. We should approach our State and Federal representatives and advocate changes. The UK for example will pay market value for any historical items found or they will borrow a relic that was uncovered from the finder, do their research and then give it back. The UK archaeologists have a great relationship with detectorists and if properly shown to our reps, they may see the good in the changes. I am a citizen that believes in the law provided the law is fair as intended.

There are many of us out there enjoying one of our chosen hobbies, lets not let ourselves get treated like criminals. I say every club needs to discuss this issue and start a letter writing campaign to your Representatives. I do not have a club that I have been able to find here in the Sevier County area of Tennessee, but I would be more than happy to try and start one. Lets get organized and earn some respect from these so called guardian's of history. Sorry about sounding so militant about this subject, but it set me off to feel that we somehow need to remain out of the radar like we are some underground criminal activity.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know.

Thanks God bless and HH,
Ray
 
I think some sort of reply is needed since you said you will respond to all emails. If it is not legal to threaten or pose possible penalties outside of a legal setting, I would remind her of that. Be sure of that fact first. Respond in a professional and polite manor that maybe the "law" wasn't passed to go after a MDer popping out the occasional wheat penny and rusty old bottle caps that may or may not be "50 years old"

Silence only empowers them.

You know, I think I would get a lawyer to help me write the response. Might cost you $50, but it would be worth it to 1. protect yourself and 2. To maybe remind her that we are not just sheep waiting to be herded or bullied by bureaucrats.

Good luck, whatever you decide.
-Mike-
 
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