New Member in SW New Mexico searching for a New Forum

[Tom_in_CA]

.... There are treasure stories practically everywhere, ....

And the silly evidences and clues are as-such: I'll bet that if you or I walked a mere mile radius from our house, that we could likewise find "uncanny things" that mimic the legend and oak island nonsense. Eg.: a rectangle. (the paver stones) . An out of place square nail. (say it isn't so). A circle (the manhole cover). A depression in the ground. A "legend" (so & so pirate was said to have been in the area way-back-when). And ... you can spin a yarn, complete with "evidence", about any place on earth.

....the trick is to sift through the bs to find a nugget of truth.

And you will find tons of "nuggets of truth". Eg.: Real names, dates, events. None of the legends ever start with "once upon a time". They are always based on real names, dates, events. But if there is no treasure, then : What good do all those "truths" do you ?? Absolutely nothing.

 

[Rudy]

LMAO, yes, I see your head count in your signature. Rock on with your bad self, lol.

I personally stopped counting years ago.

 

[Cfmct]

I personally stopped counting years ago.

That is because I get on earlier than you Rudy or so you keep mentioning to me

The early bird gets the spammer

 

[ditlihi]

Welcome to the forum from Columbia SC! Without naming the other forum, I believe I had an account there but never really got into it there. I have seen the treasure legend that you are talking about, and the flaws are glaring, but we mustn't mention the flaws! There are treasure stories practically everywhere, the trick is to sift through the bs to find a nugget of truth.

Thank you for the welcome Rustyk1!

Yes, there is always a nugget of "truth" to these treasure tales, and 99.9% of these "nuggets" actually came from authors such as W.C. Jameson, J Frank Dobie, Bob Brewer, Steve Wilson, and many more....the first producers of Artificial Facts, BWWW (Before World Wide Web). The same stories plagiarized and regurgitated ad infinitum. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

In reality, Treasure Legends are just that...."Legends". Anything you find in the public domain should automatically be suspect. Any that have been passed down through generations should be also, considering human natures tendency to rearrange facts in the re-telling.

That said, I am a firm believer in where there's smoke.....you should always look for smoke signals, lol. In other words, do your research and always .... ALWAYS ....research The Source as much, if not more, than the tale itself.

No smarmy Tom Tactics needed, lol, just common sense.

 

[ditlihi]

I personally stopped counting years ago.

That is because I get on earlier than you Rudy or so you keep mentioning to me

The early bird gets the spammer

LMAO!! Gentlemen (or Ladies, I'm new so I don't know which yet, trying to be PC here), please, no arguing over me. I have been hit with the ban hammer so many times I have a free speech impediment.....but it has never been for Spamming. Rest assured, I can give you many other reasons to ban me if you wish, lol. Just be gentle, I AM a Lady ya know.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... and 99.9% of these "nuggets" actually came from authors such as W.C. Jameson, J Frank Dobie, Bob Brewer, Steve Wilson, and many more........

haha, and this those type story-tellers that sold a lot of Treasure hunting magazines in the 1960s and '70s. Ya know all the yarns of "lost mines" and "stolen stage coach loot" and "missing military payroll", blah blah. Eg.: the dying miner drags himself into the wild west saloon... the lone survivor of an indian attack, blah blah . After awhile, they all started to sound the same. But they were such fun to read, eh ?

And if you ask anyone (like the fellow on the un-named forum) what his "proof" is, he merely points you back to the legend. Ie.: the legend itself, is the proof of itself. A bit circular, eh ?

And if anyone tries to dissect the stories, they run into the "99%" problem: That is, that ... sure ... 99% is true. Eg.: names, dates, events, etc.... They're always spun around real events and names and so forth.

But the problem is, if there's no treasure (the 1%), then what good does it do to argue about the other 99% ? NOTHING AT ALL ! But that's what ends up happening if a skeptic tries to unravel the legends. The bleary eyed faithful keep pointing to the 99%. And finding cryptograms, mystical marker turtle clues, waving magic wands, etc....

Now ... everything I just spouted here right now (the "bee in my bonnet") is totally acceptable view-point . Right ? But over "there", it will get you banned.

 

[ditlihi]

haha, and this those type story-tellers that sold a lot of Treasure hunting magazines in the 1960s and '70s. Ya know all the yarns of "lost mines" and "stolen stage coach loot" and "missing military payroll", blah blah. Eg.: the dying miner drags himself into the wild west saloon... the lone survivor of an indian attack, blah blah . After awhile, they all started to sound the same. But they were such fun to read, eh ?

And if you ask anyone (like the fellow on the un-named forum) what his "proof" is, he merely points you back to the legend. Ie.: the legend itself, is the proof of itself. A bit circular, eh ?

And if anyone tries to dissect the stories, they run into the "99%" problem: That is, that ... sure ... 99% is true. Eg.: names, dates, events, etc.... They're always spun around real events and names and so forth.

But the problem is, if there's no treasure (the 1%), then what good does it do to argue about the other 99% ? NOTHING AT ALL ! But that's what ends up happening if a skeptic tries to unravel the legends. The bleary eyed faithful keep pointing to the 99%. And finding cryptograms, mystical marker turtle clues, waving magic wands, etc....

Now ... everything I just spouted here right now (the "bee in my bonnet") is totally acceptable view-point . Right ? But over "there", it will get you banned.

There, there, Tom.....it'll be alright. I'm a little too old to breastfeed you and don't have the patience for pacifying, but I will share a little secret with you. I consider it a badge of honor to be banned from the sewer. My boots are shinier, and the air is fresh and clean for a change.

Breathe, Grasshopper....just Breathe.

Now, get outta my hair Brat. I've got Treasure Legends to bust a move on.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Here's some clues that you're on a ghost-story legend . Ever notice how they all have some form of the following ingredients :

1) "tips of icebergs". Someone brought back, or found , a single nugget, or single gold bar, etc..... Yet there is still an entire cave, or more bags of coins certain to be nearby, etc.... I call these "tips of icebergs"

2) Insane speculated quantities of riches. It's never a single mom & pop's jar of coins or whatever. It's inevitably entire vaults, or bars stacked like cord-wood to the ceiling, etc...

3) Insane depths. No good treasure legend would be complete, if it wasn't "6 meters deep", right ? Or insanely difficult locations, etc...

4) booby traps.

5) cryptogram maps and coded marker-clues.

6) Conspiracy theories. Ie.: shadowy govt. figures, or shadowy organizations . Eg.: Templars, freemasons, jesuits, KGC, etc.... that have attempted elaborate cover-ups.

7) Some way, some how, when you start to converse with the faithful in any these legends, you ALWAYS find that a good percentage of the hunters are partial to dowsing or LRLs , etc... Rarely ever is it the caliber of md'r/th'rs who are strictly into metal detectors.

Anyone else care to add more "familiar traits" that are found in the ghost-story treasure legends ?

 

[Rudy]

The early bird gets the spammer

Yeah but, the second mouse gets the cheese.

 

[ditlihi]

Here's some clues that you're on a ghost-story legend . Ever notice how they all have some form of the following ingredients :

1) "tips of icebergs". Someone brought back, or found , a single nugget, or single gold bar, etc..... Yet there is still an entire cave, or more bags of coins certain to be nearby, etc.... I call these "tips of icebergs"

2) Insane speculated quantities of riches. It's never a single mom & pop's jar of coins or whatever. It's inevitably entire vaults, or bars stacked like cord-wood to the ceiling, etc...

3) Insane depths. No good treasure legend would be complete, if it wasn't "6 meters deep", right ? Or insanely difficult locations, etc...

4) booby traps.

5) cryptogram maps and coded marker-clues.

6) Conspiracy theories. Ie.: shadowy govt. figures, or shadowy organizations . Eg.: Templars, freemasons, jesuits, KGC, etc.... that have attempted elaborate cover-ups.

7) Some way, some how, when you start to converse with the faithful in any these legends, you ALWAYS find that a good percentage of the hunters are partial to dowsing or LRLs , etc... Rarely ever is it the caliber of md'r/th'rs who are strictly into metal detectors.

Anyone else care to add more "familiar traits" that are found in the ghost-story treasure legends ?

I agree with you completely, up to Number 7 on your list.

I strongly disagree with your assertion that "the caliber of md'r/th'rs who are strictly into metal detectors" rarely search for these Legendary treasures. Look at the preponderance of LDM hunters who are diehard detectorists. Granted, that's more of a prospecting subject but still has achieved "Legend" status.

There will always be "a good percentage" of BOTH dowsers as well as strictly metal detectorists who search for Legendary Treasures. But the fact of the matter IS....no one from either camp has produced any. Sure, there have been some outstanding hoards discovered by detectorists in the UK, etc, but those were found by sheer luck and industrious detecting....not by following a treasure legend.

Dowsers do not have a corner on hunting the Treasure Legends market, though I do feel they tend to do less research and depend more on their 'equipment' to locate 'good prospects'. But in truth, I believe the percentage is probably closer to 50/50, and there are some hunters who use BOTH.

Otherwise, I have to agree with your "ingredients" of a "Ghost Story Legend" for the most part. I do feel that your distaste for Dowsers has affected your judgement to the degree that you are exhibiting all the common symptoms of Confirmation Bias. But to each his own, eh?


Dit

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... But the fact of the matter IS....no one from either camp has produced any. ...

This skeptical observation has been posed before. As you say: Despite the scores of treasure legends that people have searched for, since time immortal, you never hear of any of them being found. Instead, the caches and treasures that we hear of getting found, are just a dude out md'ing . Or a construction worker digging ditches that stumbles on to one, etc...

So that should indicate that it's folly to believe in or hunt the legends, eh ? But the pushbacks are as follows:

a) They are indeed being found on occasions. But ... the persons who find them fear the IRS, taxes, and thieves that might target their homes. So they remain "hush hush". But rest assured : People are finding treasure vaults and so forth.

b) "what about Mel Fisher ? He searched for years and found that treasure, eh ?".

To (a) , I would respond : Hogwash. There's md'rs and th'rs who proudly boast of their show & tell all the time. News of treasure finds are in the news every year, from various parts of the globe. I'm sure that there's some who are shy or afraid of taxes, sure. But a quick look at the pages of md'ing forums, shows that the average hunter is VERY QUICK to claim his bragging rights. Yup, and do thieves or the IRS show up on their doorstep ?? OF COURSE NOT. So I do not put stock in this excuse.

To (b), I would say: That's because the Atocha was not a mythical dubious legend, in the first place. It never qualifed as a ghost story of questionable origin. It was historical fact. Not only in names/dates/events, but in actual treasure-lost. Not bleary eyed telephone game speculation of camp-fire stories gone awry.

As for dowsing/LRL : Any "confirmation bias" caused by my disbelief, then this would also be true in the converse as well. Ie.: a believer in dowsing and LRL, would then equally have the claim of "confirmation bias" laid at his feet too. In other words, if this "confirmation bias" disqualifies a skeptic to comment on the subject, then so too would a believer be unqualified to weigh in on the subject either. D/t the believer's "bias", eh ?

 

[ditlihi]

....

As for dowsing/LRL : Any "confirmation bias" caused by my disbelief, then this would also be true in the converse as well. Ie.: a believer in dowsing and LRL, would then equally have the claim of "confirmation bias" laid at his feet too. In other words, if this "confirmation bias" disqualifies a skeptic to comment on the subject, then so too would a believer be unqualified to weigh in on the subject either. D/t the believer's "bias", eh ?

Tom, Tom, Tom......your circular reasoning leaves me in awe.

The fact is, we ALL have bias. Anyone who cannot consider a subject in an emotionally detached manner, without preconceived notions, is biased. It's a fact of life and human nature.

The Scientific Method was invented by those with the same basic human nature, ironically to remove the chance for bias. And it does, to some degree. But it has its own set of biases and failures, as we have discovered in recent years. It's not infallible, but it's still the golden standard in today's academia. Tomorrow, who knows. Human nature is a funny thing, especially when observed through its own biased lens.

You can split hairs all you want, but please give my ears a rest. It does no good to harp on a subject that is subjective in its own right. There can never be objectivity in the subjective.

So, after more consideration......I have decided pacifying has some appeal after all, and will just have to Agree to Disagree. Good luck and Happy Hunting.

 

[ditlihi]

Thank you Rusty! I can't believe what has happened to that place, it's so sad. That ship has been listing for quite awhile now due to poor moderation and a lack of oversight by the owners, I guess they decided to just blow a hole in the deck and get it over with. They used to have over 1000 posts a day there, now it's closer to 100 (if you don't count the 100+ nonsensical posts by the bumpersticker salesman pumping up the post count). The lack of concern for member complaints by admin, and moderators who have no one to answer to for their poor performance, have combined to cost them their viability as a forum. Members have left in droves. I finally joined the Exodus. The ads were the last straw.

Looking forward to a more welcoming and vibrant community here. Thank you so much for the Welcome!

Just got word from another member of the Other Place (who has now jumped ship as well), that after a brief pause in the horrible Ad Blitz it is now back worse than ever.

And the Bumper Sticker Salesman is back flooding the forum again with meaningless posts to pump up the postcount (and sell bumper stickers of course, it IS the end of the month and gotta pay rent, right? )

So for those of you poor souls adrift on the web and looking for a new place to hang out, free from endless ads and bumper sticker salesmen.....

WELCOME ABOARD!!!!

 

[metaladdict]

Welcome from Northern California.

 

[skipjack]

PLEASE tell me I won't be inundated by Ads and members making 100's of nonsensical posts every day selling bumperstickers. I sorely need a break. I just left another forum after 10 years of membership due to the above. I need a new home, and I see several other former members have found one here. Can I come in to play??

Count me another refugee from the other site. I'm in Columbus NM!

 

[ditlihi]

Count me another refugee from the other site. I'm in Columbus NM!

Hey there! You are just down the road from me, Neighbor. Glad you joined us!

I took a gander at your profile and see you are a photographer....you wouldn't happen to be the author of all those gorgeous sunset photos I've been seeing on Facebook, would you?

I'm new to the area and am still finding my way around exploring, these mountains have a pull I haven't been able to resist. I also saw that you just got out of prospecting, which is one of my areas of interest. Maybe you could give me some pointers in this area.

I think you'll like it here on the forum, lots of helpful people and none of the headache (like at the other site ). Welcome Aboard!

 

[KOB]

Really? Well, you can poke fun at me any day of the week. Treasure Legends are my Forte, for or against. I may just ignore you, lol, but fair warning.... I can rattle cages with the best of them. But of course, you already knew that, dint ya.

What's a debate without Pro's and Con's? Sheesh. If all I wanted was a room full of 'Converts' I would start a blog.

Treasure Legends ? There's no shortage of them on this forum ! That pic reminds me of the movie OMEGA MAN. Anyone ever remember that Charlton Heston classic ? And you can't forget Soilent Green....

 

[skipjack]

Hey there! You are just down the road from me, Neighbor. Glad you joined us!

I took a gander at your profile and see you are a photographer....you wouldn't happen to be the author of all those gorgeous sunset photos I've been seeing on Facebook, would you?

I'm new to the area and am still finding my way around exploring, these mountains have a pull I haven't been able to resist. I also saw that you just got out of prospecting, which is one of my areas of interest. Maybe you could give me some pointers in this area.

I think you'll like it here on the forum, lots of helpful people and none of the headache (like at the other site ). Welcome Aboard!

Good morning! Not the facebook photog, but I did publish a book (that I will NOT promote here). Yeah, the Site That Shall Not Be Named, hereafter known as STSNBN), had me walking on eggshells. I had sarcastic posts removed regarding another post fishing for venture capitalists and a cache on an unnamed island.

 

[skipjack]

From my back yard.

From my backyard.

 

[ditlihi]

Treasure Legends ? There's no shortage of them on this forum ! That pic reminds me of the movie OMEGA MAN. Anyone ever remember that Charlton Heston classic ? And you can't forget Soilent Green....

LOVE Charlton Heston! My favorite (borrowed from a friend) is his rendition of the Peralta Stone Treasure Legend.....

And Soylent Green is a perfect analogy for how that forum regurgitates the ridiculous and perpetuates a bad public image of Treasure Hunting.