Tom_in_CA
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2013
- Messages
- 20,831
More power to you Scubadetective. ...[/url]
I only have one thing to say about this link: That stripper is cuter than scuba-detective. Sorry scuba !
More power to you Scubadetective. ...[/url]
Troque-master, your notions of "why swat hornet's nests" was EXACTLY my first reaction to Scuba's encounters. Eg.: There's "bigger fish to fry" . And "why draw attention to ourselves ?" And "better to give lip service" (and simply come back later, blah blah). And to the average person, you and I are probably right : This notion of "give me a ticket" and defy and resist, is, yes, *normally* fool-hearty. And I would be the first to agree that this will surely mean that laws will be written to "address our pressing issue", blah blah.
Ie.: As much as I love to muse the legal aspects of our hobby (and "just do it" mentality), yet : I'm also the first to advise to give lip service and move on. Ie.: I'm not one of those types to demand my "constitutional rights" and "give me a ticket" and "fight it in court" , etc..... Because, even though I don't think (like scuba) that I'm doing anything wrong, yet : There's better hills to die on. And I'm not going to "convert every last person on earth" to agree with me.
So with that said, yes, Scuba and I had some .... uh .... debates on this years ago. But I've come to conclude that Scuba is a rare exception to this. So as much as I wouldn't recommend his "defy" stance to the "average Joe", yet for some reason (his "calm/cool/collect" ?), he's seemed to defy the odds.
Thus at first blush, yes, I can see where you're coming from. I too tried to take him to task . Suggesting the folly of his stance. But there is the rare type individual who can navigate this jungle. So he is the rare individual to which this "just give lip service and come back later" admonition doesn't seem to apply.
......And if you look at my post count over 12,000, you will realize the moderators and owners know me quite well on here.......
......and also many many members know that Robert is a person of integrity, and those of you have read some of his posts over time will see how he has helped people. Typed communication can sometimes be easily misunderstood as to the attitude behind it, so people need to be careful not to be too quick to assume and judge someone in a negative way simply based on a forum thread.
We all can disagree on various points now and then, but we need to be careful not to turn it into a personal attack against the persons themselves, this is called the "Friendly" metal detecting forum for a reason
Tim, it is a long story not to be put on here for ridicule and discussion.
.... In the one instance where I received three citations at one time another detecorist who was wading did what he was told, he left. NOT ME. ....
......and also many many members know that Robert is a person of integrity, and those of you have read some of his posts over time will see how he has helped people. Typed communication can sometimes be easily misunderstood as to the attitude behind it, so people need to be careful not to be too quick to assume and judge someone in a negative way simply based on a forum thread.
We all can disagree on various points now and then, but we need to be careful not to turn it into a personal attack against the persons themselves, this is called the "Friendly" metal detecting forum for a reason
Good you reminded the members this the Friendly Metal detecting forum. Hope they will keep it that way. Love seeing Robert's post of his under water finds both on here and on Facebook .
I don't judge folks that get told by an officer to leave and they do without question. In the one instance where I received three citations at one time another detecorist who was wading did what he was told, he left. NOT ME. There are reasons for my actions but I don't need to explain them on here for ridicule. BUT it boils down to I was right and the officer was wrong and the judge dismissed all the charges with the officer there. I REFUSE to find a nice detecting spot over an hour away from my house, just to have a police officer with nothing better to do on his agenda than to harass someone that is NOT doing anything illegal. It is THAT simple.
ScubaDetective, do you have any experience-based information you can share (NOT to be construed as legal advice!) regarding where local police authority ends (above mean high high tide?) and open beach intertidal (below seasonal high swash line to the water's edge?) and shallow submarine (although not necessarily swimming, but wading). I've had an encounter with a National Park Ranger claiming that I can't MD inside an area he indicated, some of which was clearly intertidal beach including wet water, that was "National Park". I didn't push the issue but I thought there was a fair chance he was all wet in the intertidal realm. Clearly, local and/or land-based federal agency police authority has to end somewhere along the marine coastline and state and federal coastal authority take over(different rules). It becomes confusing along coastal areas.
Sorry I do not know the laws in South Carolina. EVERY state and jurisdiction THINKS they can make laws to control the waterway. In Michigan, If a lake has ANY public access, owners of property around the lake ONLY have a deed to the high water mark. If a lake is privately owned all the way around it and an owner gives you permission to hunt his property you can legally hunt a pie shaped piece of property all the way out to the middle. BUT the minute you SET FOOT on the bottom land of his neighbors you are trespassing. You can however boat, and swim around the whole lake. You can even anchor anywhere on the lake. BUT you physically cannot touch the bottom.
Now here is the kicker. If you DO touch the bottom and trespass, the owner has to see you touch. Then the owner has to advise you not to trespass. THEN if you trespass again he can file a police report and have you cited. For a wader that would be easy, For a diver, a lot harder.
Detroit has an ordinance stating you cannot swim or dive in the Detroit river in city limits unless in a roped off swimming area. How Detroit legislatures think they can govern a federal international waterway is a good question. HOWEVER in that same ordinance is a provision for bona fide underwater commercial diving operation.
EVERY jurisdiction has their own ideas of what laws they want to make and enforce. I can only help folks in Michigan. Sorry
Troque-master, your notions of "why swat hornet's nests" was EXACTLY my first reaction to Scuba's encounters. Eg.: There's "bigger fish to fry" . And "why draw attention to ourselves ?" And "better to give lip service" (and simply come back later, blah blah). And to the average person, you and I are probably right : This notion of "give me a ticket" and defy and resist, is, yes, *normally* fool-hearty. And I would be the first to agree that this will surely mean that laws will be written to "address our pressing issue", blah blah.
Ie.: As much as I love to muse the legal aspects of our hobby (and "just do it" mentality), yet : I'm also the first to advise to give lip service and move on. Ie.: I'm not one of those types to demand my "constitutional rights" and "give me a ticket" and "fight it in court" , etc..... Because, even though I don't think (like scuba) that I'm doing anything wrong, yet : There's better hills to die on. And I'm not going to "convert every last person on earth" to agree with me.
So with that said, yes, Scuba and I had some .... uh .... debates on this years ago. But I've come to conclude that Scuba is a rare exception to this. So as much as I wouldn't recommend his "defy" stance to the "average Joe", yet for some reason (his "calm/cool/collect" ?), he's seemed to defy the odds.
Thus at first blush, yes, I can see where you're coming from. I too tried to take him to task . Suggesting the folly of his stance. But there is the rare type individual who can navigate this jungle. So he is the rare individual to which this "just give lip service and come back later" admonition doesn't seem to apply.
Truthfully Tom, I have no quarrel with him standing his ground with LEOs, even if it gets him a citation that will be thrown out. Being he's an ex-LEO, he's on a more even footing to do so. Clearly he knows the law and stands up for himself. That's all fine, some officers might get educated at least.
My view of him -- based narrowly on the two posts in this thread -- is he's not someone I'd want to associate with. He may be a swell guy and well liked, and he's got number to prove it, so I'm quite impressed.
The car thing -- obviously it looks like a cop car, maybe he was being facetious when he said it didn't. There will surely be times, as someone else mentioned, that cars may stack up behind him on the highway, no one daring to pass. I object to anyone unofficial who consciously, ignorantly, or deliberately hampers the free flow of traffic. It's in the same vein as cars that sit in the passing lane, but not passing anyone, or the truck doing 65.5 passing the truck doing 65. We all probably know the highway driving public has no clue about actual safe vehicle spacing -- in my opinion, being lined up behind an "official" vehicle is less safe than letting the traffic flow freely...and danged annoying.
It appears he's had many more run-ins with LEOs than most of us. He must be doing something to cause that. It's his choice to continue those behaviors. I suspect he enjoys the conversation/debate/conflict, being right, ultimately winning, and bragging about it. I also consider those LEOs dealing with him would be better serving the community using their time looking for impaired/ distracted drivers or whatever they normally do. I'm more neutral on this situation -- if his activities are "important", and there's no suitable substitute that won't generate a visit from the law, keep on keeping on. If there are substitutes, do them instead, avoid potentially wasting LEOs time. Aren't they perpetually short on manpower?
Anyway, I'm not a fan. I'll let others who are better debaters and enjoy the debate butt heads with him if they want. I state the facts I see, and my opinions, and hope they have some impact. They usually don't, especially not with certain personality types. I've come to accept that.
Ok, now I'm really moving on to other threads where *MY* posts are hopefully more hobby related. peacelovecrabs
Scuba, go easy. At first blush , to persons who don't know you, this comes across quite "in-your-face". For those that know you longer, they realize differently , but .... go easy on new persons to the forum
This is followed by the scuba disclaimer "Don't try this at home"
Ok...enquiring minds want to know. You gotta tell us the story about the homeowner going to the slammer ! And I call people behind a computer "Keyboard Commando's" or "Internet Toughguys". They don't mean anything to me because they are just that.....a nothing....