Myers Depot Metal Detectors

Head Stamps

midwest

midwest

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
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892
Location
Illinois
This goes out to "Turtlefoot", and anyone else that knows about head stamps.
I found these at a 1800s site, but know little about head stamps and how to place the time era on them. I know "Turtlefoot" collects them based on past post, and has good knowledge, so I was hoping you could tell me a little about these?

one says "Mallard then No 12, and on the bottom SR Co

next one: Redhead then No 12, and on the bottom Reliance

Next two are "Winchester", and both are No 12

first one has "Super Speed" on the bottom with made in USA in the middle

second one has "Repeater" on the bottom with "New W R A co No 4" in the middle. I think that's what it says in the middle, but not completely sure?

I know these are shot gun shells, but thought this was the forum to place it in considering I don't know the time frame they are from, thanks.
 

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Nice finds! Here is a quick rundown:

Winchester Super Speed - Introduced in the late 1930's and was still in production when the shells went from paper hulls to plastic hulls.

Winchester Repeater - The generally accepted dates are 1896-1938. The "New No. 4" primer has a production date of 1904-1932 (I have not verified the primer info, but the source is usually spot on.)

Sears Mallard - No good date info on Sears, but from catalogs and other sources, I am guessing 1920's-1930's.

Montgomery Wards Red Head Reliance - Not sure of the beginning date, but it was still advertised in their 1958 catalog.

House brands are a real pain to date.

You have some nice finds. With at least three reaching into the 1930's, it looks like you are hitting a site that had activity for a long period of time (1800's-1930's or later).

Doug
 
Thanks so much for the info. I never really paid attention to the head stamps I've found, but the history you gave me is awesome. I think ill start paying better attention to these for now on. Again, thanks.
 
I know that I am a little bias, but I think that history that is attached to headstamps is unmatched in many ways. The name of the line of shells can tell us so much about the mindset of the buyers (and sellers) at that time in history. The date range lets us in on what was going on in the world at the time. The specific individual headstamp can tells us information about the shooter.

I could go on and on, but I don't want to write a book on your thread. Once again, great finds!

Doug
 
I went through some older finds from other past spots and found five more. All duplicates of what I just posted except for one. "U M C Co. No 12 and "club" on the bottom? I'm getting into this head stamp thing now, lol.
 
midwest said:
I went through some older finds from other past spots and found five more. All duplicates of what I just posted except for one. "U M C Co. No 12 and "club" on the bottom? I'm getting into this head stamp thing now, lol.
Click to expand...

Your UMC Club is an oldie - 1885-1891 (It was the first named line of shells that UMC put out.)
 
Turtlefoot, just found another one in my pouch. Winchester No 12 New Rival. I did a google search, and its either from 1897-1901, or 1920-1929 with 1901 stamped on it between 1901-1919 like yours. How do I know if mine is earlier or the later? Thanks again.

I'm going to start collecting these old ones and put them in a case. There is a wooded area that I go to that gives up so many of these old ones and never thought to collect them with some of them going into the trash. I know that sounds bad, but it was just ignorance on my part. Not anymore though.
 
Is there any way of getting a pic of it? It's hard to tell the exact dates on most of these shells that changed to the "1901" headstamp. Sometimes the font can be matched to a known, older shell. The primer can also be an indicator of age at times.

As for the "1901" headstamp being used for almost 20 years, I have yet to be able to verify that information is correct. The Winchseter Model 1901 shotgun was made from 1901-1920. I have yet to be able to prove it, but I think the "1901" headstamps and the regular Winchester headstamps were made at the same time. I am not sure why Winchester marked so many different shell lines with the "1901" headstamp, since the Model 1901 shotgun was only made in 10ga.

I know that advertising is not a 100% accurate way of dating shells, but below is a 1904 ad and a 1916 ad that show the regular Winchester headstamp on the New Rival. The 1904 ad is hard to read, but it is the shell on the right. I would think that if the only headstamp used for this time period was the "1901" headstamp, Winchester would have changed their ads to reflect it. It's hard to imagine that Winchester, a company that relied heavily on advertising, would not change their ads to match the current items they were selling for 20 years.

picture.php

1904 Winchester ad showing Winchester headstamp, not 1901 headstamp

picture.php

1916 Winchester ad/article showing Winchester headstamp, not 1901 headstamp

With a close-up pic or scan of the headstamp, I might be able to get you a tighter date.

I am glad that you are enjoying headstamps!

Doug
 
I had to rush to the hospital. Just got out. My daughter had to get seven stitches in her head cause she fell. she's ok now, thank God. ill post a pic of the stamp when i get back to my office. Again, thanks for help on this. im very interested in this now.
 
midwest said:
I had to rush to the hospital. Just got out. My daughter had to get seven stitches in her head cause she fell. she's ok now, thank God. ill post a pic of the stamp when i get back to my office. Again, thanks for help on this. im very interested in this now.
Click to expand...

:shock::shock::shock:

Sorry to hear about your daughter. I am glad that she is okay. My son took a header several years ago and ended up with stiches. It's scary until you know that they are all right.

Doug
 
Thanks guys for the encourging words.

Here is a pic of the "New Rival" headstamp. Its not the best, but I'm not sure how to clean these aside from soap and water?
 

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Your headstamp is one of the older ones. If you look, there is no primer cup (the thing around the primer). That is one sign of it being older. The font and spacing is also similar to that of some of the known 19th century heads. I would be very comfortable in saying that this one was made before the "1901" headstamps were introduced.

NICE FIND!
Doug
 
Also, did you clean the head in your avatar, or did you find it like that? How do you clean them?
 
The one in my avi was sent to me by another forum member. The story behind it was it was a beach find (don't know if it was fresh or salt water). The sand polished this one up nicely though.

Every headstamp is different. I have some that have been tumbled and some that I only get the dirt off with a toothpick. The majority of them usually get a soapy bath and a good scrubbing with a tooth brush or fingernail brush. Some can be rather fragile, so take care. I have practiced on a couple of dupes that looked fragile, just to see how far I could go in cleaning them and with a nail brush, I actually removed all detail.
 
picture.php

This one is easily strong enough to be able to be tumbled.

picture.php

I was nervous about even lightly brushing the dirt off of this one. Hardly any cleaning on this one will destroy it.

Doug
 
Good to know, thanks again. Those are beauties, that last one looks really old.
 
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