What causes falsing?

Falsing is just that. A False signal.

The most common cause of falsing is running your detector to hot for the patch of ground you are searching.

Swinging too fast also causes falsing at the edge of swings.

Lifting the coil while sweeping can also cause falsing.

Falsing seldom has anything to do with anything under the coil.

BottleCapKing said:

Falsing is just that. A False signal.

The most common cause of falsing is running your detector to hot for the patch of ground you are searching.

Swinging too fast also causes falsing at the edge of swings.

Lifting the coil while sweeping can also cause falsing.

Falsing seldom has anything to do with anything under the coil.

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I don't agree with,,,,what's under your coil doesn't have anything to do with falsing.

Case in point,,,,a rusty fence staple,,,,all my detectors will give a false on these,,actually a good sounding signal(one thinks nonferrous) but it's not,,,actually the signal provided more of a good sounding signal vs a false.

Some rusty iron and nails,,,will false on some detectors no matter what you try to do,,,short of turning sens down to practically no depth detection capabilities.

Iron will cause for example more falses,,,laying out in the open,,,vs say a nickel laying out in the open.

Can I make a detector false on a stand alone isolated nickel,,,yes,,,,but I can have iron or nail,,,where even perfect everything won't eliminate the false totally,,,,can I do some things to make nail false less of a signal,,,yes,,,but not get rid of totally all the time with even some sensible settings.

Iron,,when it is decomposing,,,it is not uniform,,,,this is why,,,take a target iron that is giving wrap signal,,,stick shovel in ground and pry a little,,,then resweep the iron and listen,,,,lots of times it won't wrap anymore,,,,,but come back after some months or years have passed,,,,it might start wrapping again.

Is all rust ferrous material???

Should also point out,,,some detectors while over deep fringe depth detectable targets,,,,can provide a signal,,,,problem is sometimes the operator will be thinking signal is a false,,,not a good nonferrous target.

Deus can do this,,,happens to me,,,but when going deep,,,one must go for the gusto.

I've read some time ago as metal rust & flakes it develops more surface area and creates a halo effect which increases falsing.

My experiences digging rusty iron is one reason I'm not over excited about the nail board test.

Heed Capt Silver's comments/advice here.

https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=158357

I think your on it Treble. I found this...
Even if the Discrimination control is set up high, a large nail in sweep 3 would produce a silver-like response due to its large size and the Halo effect

Thanks for that link tnsharpshooter. I had also forgotten about pointy nails and raise the coil trick.

Trix said:

Thanks for that link tnsharpshooter. I had also forgotten about pointy nails and raise the coil trick.

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You are welcome.

Your thread you started here,,a good one.

Probably the hardest thing to master with any detector,,is falsing,,,meaning learning how to identify false from good target.

A good trained ear,,,and getting used to your detector settings,,,how they affect and or cause.

tnsharpshooter said:

I don't agree with,,,,what's under your coil doesn't have anything to do with falsing.

Case in point,,,,a rusty fence staple,,,,all my detectors will give a false on these,,actually a good sounding signal(one thinks nonferrous) but it's not,,,actually the signal provided more of a good sounding signal vs a false.

Some rusty iron and nails,,,will false on some detectors no matter what you try to do,,,short of turning sens down to practically no depth detection capabilities.

Iron will cause for example more falses,,,laying out in the open,,,vs say a nickel laying out in the open.

Can I make a detector false on a stand alone isolated nickel,,,yes,,,,but I can have iron or nail,,,where even perfect everything won't eliminate the false totally,,,,can I do some things to make nail false less of a signal,,,yes,,,but not get rid of totally all the time with even some sensible settings.

Iron,,when it is decomposing,,,it is not uniform,,,,this is why,,,take a target iron that is giving wrap signal,,,stick shovel in ground and pry a little,,,then resweep the iron and listen,,,,lots of times it won't wrap anymore,,,,,but come back after some months or years have passed,,,,it might start wrapping again.

Is all rust ferrous material???

Should also point out,,,some detectors while over deep fringe depth detectable targets,,,,can provide a signal,,,,problem is sometimes the operator will be thinking signal is a false,,,not a good nonferrous target.

Deus can do this,,,happens to me,,,but when going deep,,,one must go for the gusto.

Click to expand...

I think BCK meant much of the falsing could just be user error, based on the examples he gave. Not that falsing couldn't come from below the coil also, but first to eliminate the falsing caused by user error before evaluating that of from the dirt.

MrNovice said:

I think BCK meant much of the falsing could just be user error, based on the examples he gave. Not that falsing couldn't come from below the coil also, but first to eliminate the falsing caused by user error before evaluating that of from the dirt.

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Not quite how I interpreted.

Even the ground with no iron target or nonferrous target can cause falses.

Ground balance,,,improper,,,,can up the odds.

EMI can cause falses too.

Bumped coil,,,coil cable,,even bumped control box.

Metal in footwear too.

Some pinpointers,,depending on detector,,,,even when pinpointer is in OFF position.

Fisher F75 original versions to include ltd/SE models with boost,,,,Garrett pro pointer when even off would cause my unit to false.

tnsharpshooter said:

Not quite how I interpreted.

Even the ground with no iron target or nonferrous target can cause falses.

Ground balance,,,improper,,,,can up the odds.

EMI can cause falses too.

Bumped coil,,,coil cable,,even bumped control box.

Metal in footwear too.

Some pinpointers,,depending on detector,,,,even when pinpointer is in OFF position.

Fisher F75 original versions to include ltd/SE models with boost,,,,Garrett pro pointer when even off would cause my unit to false.

Click to expand...

Yes, there could be many reasons. I actually prefer to run too hot so I can hear the dirt and detect through the chatter. I read somewhere about iron decay charging the particles around it as it decomposes and fragments leaving trace elements as it breaks down. I'm guessing this is a very slow chemical reaction, but when the target is even removed later that the ground can still hold those charges and trace elements. Some kind of iron decay theory. Sounds legit considering iron masking and all that entails.

This is something folks need to realize,,,,take a site,,,very old with many nails and other iron.

What if we went in and dug all the detectable ferrous,,,,,would it all be gone??

Nope

Iron dust and ultra small bit will still be there,,,will cause detectors fits,,,some more so than others.

But will removing all detectable ferrous,,,,possibly allow a nonferrous to be found?? Yes

But there is a catch here,,,,FBS detectors users,,,,they would be at a greater disadvantage on average,,,since a good nonferrous target (depth detectable normally) could possibly go undetected at a higher rate vs more typical Vlf detectors.

Tilled ground,,disturbed ground,,,so far my experiences show Xp Deus and Aka Sorex and Aka Signum,,,best I've seen here.

It would benefit FBS users,,,to keep a log,,,,very possible to revisit a site where ground has been disturbed,,,,and say when months,,years pass,,,some targets become detectable using FBS once again.

tnsharpshooter said:

This is something folks need to realize,,,,take a site,,,very old with many nails and other iron.

What if we went in and dug all the detectable ferrous,,,,,would it all be gone??

Nope

Iron dust and ultra small bit will still be there,,,will cause detectors fits,,,some more so than others.

But will removing all detectable ferrous,,,,possibly allow a nonferrous to be found?? Yes

But there is a catch here,,,,FBS detectors users,,,,they would be at a greater disadvantage on average,,,since a good nonferrous target (depth detectable normally) could possibly go undetected at a higher rate vs more typical Vlf detectors.

Tilled ground,,disturbed ground,,,so far my experiences show Xp Deus and Aka Sorex and Aka Signum,,,best I've seen here.

It would benefit FBS users,,,to keep a log,,,,very possible to revisit a site where ground has been disturbed,,,,and say when months,,years pass,,,some targets become detectable using FBS once again.

Click to expand...

I m not sure about the dust thing. If the dust was that bad your initial signal would all over and you'd be checking the plug and hole after popping the plug and having a hit on both sides. I always rescan my closed plugs, and have never has dust sound off on any of my detectors.

Big Treble said:

I m not sure about the dust thing. If the dust was that bad your initial signal would all over and you'd be checking the plug and hole after popping the plug and having a hit on both sides. I always rescan my closed plugs, and have never has dust sound off on any of my detectors.

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I think you misunderstood me.

Take a group of microscopic rust bits,,,scattered in the soil,,,,will a Vlf detector even detect with tone????

But this same material can in fact cause the detector (blind) it to find actual detectable nonferrous target.

You see,,,there are things affecting the detector in the soil,,,we have no real knowledge it's happening.

We only get falses,,or tones to give us clues,,,and even these don't tell the whole story of just what electronically is going on inside our detectors.

It does take a magnitude of signal of sorts to actually set a detector off tonally (probably varies between different models detectors). So phase shifting can be altered,,signal level compromised,,hence no real clues of detection of nonferrous find.

Maybe a good question here,,,,just how small a piece of ferrous material will a detector alert on,,,even using all metal,,,or using disc mode with 0 disc???

There are limits to size (how small) a nonferrous can be for detection,,,and these ultra small nonferrous bits I. E. Foil could also hamper detection of worthy finds.

Remember deeper targets,,small,,,hot spot on coil(receive) very small vs shallower,,,,a small alley way that can be obstructed unknowingly.

An experiment using the smallest shotgun shot size pellets,,using these would give clues to actual reality of what can and does happen.

Another example,,,take a Deus to a 250 year old site loaded with nails,,hunt it to death,,,keep hunting it,,,when you think you've got everything out.

If this site was left undisturbed,,,go back 10 years later with Deus,,,,could you find anything nonferrous??? Highly likely,,,why??? Because some of the iron has decomposed to the point it has less or no negative affects.

Now some targets could be found due to ground/soil shifting too.

So in a sense no site is dead,,,,just wait for ferrous to decompose,,,but there is another catch,,,sink rate,,,like say silver coin or gold coin,,,,sink rate could in fact outrun your detector's depth capabilities and time for select ferrous materials to decompose.

Imagine what some of the older sites uninhabited ,,,from a nail perspective will look/sound like 2000 years from now.

It seems falsing can be defined in a variary of ways. I mostly consider it as a high tone squeal on the Etrac from a ferrous object usually from a fast swing. This is easily overcome by a second pass over the area. Another is to consider an inaccurate VDI as a result of halo effect fooling the detector as an error or "false" reading. This could be rescanned from different directions and evaluated through pinpointing to determine if Fe or Co. Which reminds me of the technique of stomping on the target area to help disrupt the aura of the halo.

tnsharpshooter said:

I think you misunderstood me.

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You are right, sir I did! Sorry to pounce LOL

That foot stomp method is a good little trick...I will add something strange and probably rare about falsing...Noticed when hunting over frosted grass, about 7yrs and 1000's of target experience...it seems to cause falsing and skewed signals more than standard...I do not know why, but it does...a guy just learns to accept it and hunt until the Sun Comes up and the frost goes away, then everything returns to normal....
Mud

Mud-puppy said:

That foot stomp method is a good little trick...I will add something strange and probably rare about falsing...Noticed when hunting over frosted grass, about 7yrs and 1000's of target experience...it seems to cause falsing and skewed signals more than standard...I do not know why, but it does...a guy just learns to accept it and hunt until the Sun Comes up and the frost goes away, then everything returns to normal....
Mud

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I've noticed the frost in the ground think too, frustrating! But I've never had too much luck changing a signal with the foot stomp trick.

Big Treble said:

I've noticed the frost in the ground think too, frustrating! But I've never had too much luck changing a signal with the foot stomp trick.

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Also, after an over night rain, on the beach here, a guy finds that the top few inches of sand are wet, and underneath powder dry...Falsing! We know moisture changes the dirt, and layers of different moisture levels on the same soil could too? So maybe surface frost has a similar effect? Thats what I think anyway...the 'stomp' works for me on multidenom tight spills to assist in unraveling the signals, and tight picking...
Mud

Mud-puppy said:

Also, after an over night rain, on the beach here, a guy finds that the top few inches of sand are wet, and underneath powder dry...Falsing! We know moisture changes the dirt, and layers of different moisture levels on the same soil could too? So maybe surface frost has a similar effect? Thats what I think anyway...the 'stomp' works for me on multidenom tight spills to assist in unraveling the signals, and tight picking...
Mud

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I'll have to try the stomp method again.

As far as frost in the ground, I had always wondered if the crystal formations of moisture intensified the falsing? Think how many facets a crystal would have and what slight percentage of signals are bouncing in a different direction?

Not won of them thar scientificoligist fellers, but it does make that thar 6th grade education kick in. Heck far!