When is it better to ask forgiveness instead of permission?
- Thread starter Smooth23
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Oh Boy! This could be a two bagger!! 
Digalicious
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Tom is awakening 
Tom_in_CA
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Smooth23 :
I don't know what it's like where you are in WI, but where I'm at in California, we are called "The Salad Bowl of the World". Lettuce, spinach, brussel sprouts, and every type leaf greens you can think of. All of our towns are surrounded by endless ag. fields. That are laced with dirt roads & un-fenced.
The era of small farmers (when a family could make a living off 30 or 50 acres here), ended before WWII. With the advent of larger ag. equipment and methods. So all these prior mom & pops farms simply sold to the mega corps. Or simply opt to rent/lease out their acreage . Yet the kids and grandkids have probably not even set foot on their land for decades. Instead, it's just a trickle rent income by family trusts & so forth. I know one such lineage person directly . They're heir to 15 acres, that he never even sees nor goes near.
There's nothing to stop people from driving these miles of dirt roads (people sometimes do, for shortcuts). And, as someone who has worked for Ag. Co's here myself, The only concern that farmers have (of anyone in their fields) is: Theft of produce & ag. equipment.
So to properly answer your question : Do you want the technical answer ? Or the realistic answer ?
I don't know what it's like where you are in WI, but where I'm at in California, we are called "The Salad Bowl of the World". Lettuce, spinach, brussel sprouts, and every type leaf greens you can think of. All of our towns are surrounded by endless ag. fields. That are laced with dirt roads & un-fenced.
The era of small farmers (when a family could make a living off 30 or 50 acres here), ended before WWII. With the advent of larger ag. equipment and methods. So all these prior mom & pops farms simply sold to the mega corps. Or simply opt to rent/lease out their acreage . Yet the kids and grandkids have probably not even set foot on their land for decades. Instead, it's just a trickle rent income by family trusts & so forth. I know one such lineage person directly . They're heir to 15 acres, that he never even sees nor goes near.
There's nothing to stop people from driving these miles of dirt roads (people sometimes do, for shortcuts). And, as someone who has worked for Ag. Co's here myself, The only concern that farmers have (of anyone in their fields) is: Theft of produce & ag. equipment.
So to properly answer your question : Do you want the technical answer ? Or the realistic answer ?
Tom_in_CA
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metaladdict
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Tom is awakening
Tom has spoken!🤣🤣
Smooth23 :
I don't know what it's like where you are in WI, but where I'm at in California, we are called "The Salad Bowl of the World". Lettuce, spinach, brussel sprouts, and every type leaf greens you can think of. All of our towns are surrounded by endless ag. fields. That are laced with dirt roads & un-fenced.
The era of small farmers (when a family could make a living off 30 or 50 acres here), ended before WWII. With the advent of larger ag. equipment and methods. So all these prior mom & pops farms simply sold to the mega corps. Or simply opt to rent/lease out their acreage . Yet the kids and grandkids have probably not even set foot on their land for decades. Instead, it's just a trickle rent income by family trusts & so forth. I know one such lineage person directly . They're heir to 15 acres, that he never even sees nor goes near.
There's nothing to stop people from driving these miles of dirt roads (people sometimes do, for shortcuts). And, as someone who has worked for Ag. Co's here myself, The only concern that farmers have (of anyone in their fields) is: Theft of produce & ag. equipment.
So to properly answer your question : Do you want the technical answer ? Or the realistic answer ?
Haha I figured you’d be all over this. I figured what your opinion would be and I largely agree with it. I also came from a farming family and the biggest gripe was people hunting and harvesting deer or turkeys off our property without permission, as the whole family hunted for ourselves. Any time I talk about entering someone else’s property I get the heebie jeebies. Doesn’t help thst this particular field is… exposed. On the corner of two paved and fairly well travelled roads
Digalicious
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There is one certainty Smooth. That is, if it's owned by a company, the answer will be no.
Reelfoot Relics
Senior Member
If you owned it or was a part of a group that owned it would you want someone to ask permission?
If you deliberately divest and hide assets behind an LLC, do you have a moral right to be angered when people can’t find you to ask? I’m not saying using an LLC is wrong, though
Tom_in_CA
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This is one of those type questions where .... Sure : If someone is asked "would you prefer such & such" , they could answer "yes". For example : If you asked me : "Do you prefer that someone spit on your lawn, or not ?", I might say that I prefer that they not spit on my lawn. Sure.
But the REAL question is : Would I have ever noticed , or cared less, if I saw them do that ? The answer to that is that I would probably agree that I would never have noticed, nor cared less, if I had happen-chance seen someone spit on my lawn.
Digalicious
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Smooth,
Ask yourself, "What's the worst that could happen"?
I suspect the worst that could possibly happen, is you'll be asked to leave.
Ask yourself, "What's the worst that could happen"?
I suspect the worst that could possibly happen, is you'll be asked to leave.
metaladdict
Elite Member
I agree with this message.
Reelfoot Relics
Senior Member
I'm just throwing out scenarios here, what if it is someone else's permission who has made contact? Would that change your mind? Again throwing out scenarios would it be ok if you did the work and got permission and someone else without permission walked on and hunted it? I really don't care but it just the way my mind works.
FliesOnly
Senior Member
Well, ya'll had to know I'd pipe in as well.
Does it only become an issue if he finds something? What if he, by chance, happens to find something of significant value? Does he get to keep it? Is it really even his to keep?
What if they wanted to apply free fertilizer? Or, what if they wanted to dig up one of your prize roses? Can they take your dog if he's out playing in the yard?
Would you have noticed if they dug up and removed some plants from your yard? What if they found a diamond ring buried in your lawn?
It's funny how I've mentioned in other threads that there are some people on this forum who pretty much state that it's OK to hunt on properties where you do not have permission...just as long as you think you can get away with it, but they never admit to saying such things.
Well, here we are...
You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to convince yourself it's okay to trespass, and you will find people on here who will tell you to go for it, if that's what you're looking for. But your decisions are representing everyone in the hobby, not just yourself.
Detecting wherever you want because "no one will care" is not helping our hobby's image. I would say you should do some more research and find land you can actually get permission for. Property rights exist for a reason, but it's up to you whether to respect them.
I will agree with Reelfoot Relics here and say that I have gotten permission for private property before, only to encounter someone who walked right on with no care in the world. Not a great experience.
Detecting wherever you want because "no one will care" is not helping our hobby's image. I would say you should do some more research and find land you can actually get permission for. Property rights exist for a reason, but it's up to you whether to respect them.
I will agree with Reelfoot Relics here and say that I have gotten permission for private property before, only to encounter someone who walked right on with no care in the world. Not a great experience.
Tom_in_CA
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Points Duly noted. Because, sure, in *our* case, we're not doing something as innocuous as (gasp) stepping off the sidewalk, or spitting. We are doing something much more evil : Metal detecting. Point duly noted.
And let's not stop there. Because what you are saying is not restricted to just the question of the post here. It's also equally true of public land too. It's laws/rules known as prohibitions on "harvest" and "remove". Aka take and steal. Everything you've said (which I do not dispute) equally applies to every single beach, forest, park, etc....
If you walk into any city hall, anywhere, and ask : "Hi, can I 'dig' , 'take' and 'remove' things from the park (or beach, or forest, etc...) for my own personal profit ?", they will tell you "no". Right ? But you tell me honestly : Did they care one bit that you removed a merc. dime from the park or beach ? Of course not. Yet technically ... you are in violation.
Let's all just give up this evil hobby
teotwawki12
Elite Member
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the following would probably work 42.7% of the time:
Someone who works for the farm approaches you and asks why you are there. You reply that you found out it was leased property. You then say you talked to "Tom", who gave you the okay to metal detect there (nothing else, no deer hunting, farming etc..). I'll bet said individual might take this answer (which in and of itself contains no falsehood) and tell ya good luck and move on...
Someone who works for the farm approaches you and asks why you are there. You reply that you found out it was leased property. You then say you talked to "Tom", who gave you the okay to metal detect there (nothing else, no deer hunting, farming etc..). I'll bet said individual might take this answer (which in and of itself contains no falsehood) and tell ya good luck and move on...
