Very impressive test for the Legend

I'd recommend checking out that video, as it states, the configurations needs to be randomized by a computer to eliminate bias and any unforeseen relationships between coil geometry and target separation / iron unmasking.

These people are testing specific scenarios. I am interested in the detector that wins a higher percentage of randomized scenarios, because that detector will unmask more over the long run, via the law of large numbers.

One thing I think is missing from the iron-unmasking discussion is the concept of false-positives. e.g. one could hypothetically design a detector that gives a non-ferrous tone on all ferrous signals and then when subjected to these iron-unmasking "tests" it would appear to succeed in all of them, but when taken out into the field, it would obviously be problematic.

Specifically, if one detector unmasks more than another, you would also have to know their comparable false-positive rates to then decided which detector performs better for your needs. E.g. if you are at a hunted out site, accepting better unmasking in exchange for more false positives would be optimal, but the opposite might be optimal at a fresh site.

Yea, uh No. Computers can't determine halo effect. Computers can't determine mineralization. Computers don't know the idiosyncrisies of any detector. One could program a computer until their blue in the face and the computer still won't know all the factors involved.

Every hunt is random. Every swing exacerbates that randomness. Something a computer can't compute is each hunters swing speed. Here's a scientific fact. If there is a piece of metal in the ground within reach. A detector will detect it. Playing detecting video games to try and increase your finds is futile. Learning your detector and using different settings and coils has much more scientific value than a Mario cartoon. Monte's test gives you actual visuals and tones that are applicable to get you on your way. A computer could simulate 50,000 scenarios and you won't know which one it was because you can't actually view the targets in the ground.
 
Yea, uh No. Computers can't determine halo effect. Computers can't determine mineralization.

This is a completely naïve assertion. Modeling these effects, while non-trivial, is certainly possible.


Computers don't know the idiosyncrisies of any detector.

Software has been emulating hardware for a while...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator



Something a computer can't compute is each hunters swing speed.

Once again, totally naïve assertion.

We can vary swing speed in the simulation, it's even trivial to add human like movement, random slow downs, inconsistencies, etc. If you wanted to go all out, you could even motion capture a variety of real detectorist swing techniques and import the motion.


Playing detecting video games to try and increase your finds is futile. Learning your detector and using different settings and coils has much more scientific value than a Mario cartoon.

Lol, yeah, not like anybody ever learned anything from a mathematical model of things... :laughing:


No offense, but writing physics simulations is my area of expertise. You don't know what you are talking about...
 
This is a completely naïve assertion. Modeling these effects, while non-trivial, is certainly possible.




Software has been emulating hardware for a while...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator





Once again, totally naïve assertion.

We can vary swing speed in the simulation, it's even trivial to add human like movement, random slow downs, inconsistencies, etc. If you wanted to go all out, you could even motion capture a variety of real detectorist swing techniques and import the motion.




Lol, yeah, not like anybody ever learned anything from a mathematical model of things... :laughing:


No offense, but writing physics simulations is my area of expertise. You don't know what you are talking about...

Great, you keep playing your games, wasting time with simulations and I will keep finding stuff. Your scientific video game won't find you more in a field than an experienced hunter will. 20 nails or 500 nails, mathematical simulations doesn't care. It will be harder to find a good target in the 500 nails. No one needs a video game to explain this.
 
Great, you keep playing your games, wasting time with simulations and I will keep finding stuff. Your scientific video game won't find you more in a field than an experienced hunter will. 20 nails or 500 nails, mathematical simulations doesn't care. It will be harder to find a good target in the 500 nails. No one needs a video game to explain this.

Will do :)

I have already learned a lot through this process that has informed my detecting and I am confident I will continue doing so.

It does confuse me why somebody would be so hostile to the possibility of learning something new... like, why? I am the one writing the code, "wasting" my time. All you have to do is sit back and determine for yourself whether this information has value to you.
 
Will do :)

I have already learned a lot through this process that has informed my detecting and I am confident I will continue doing so.

It does confuse me why somebody would so hostile to the possibility of learning something new... like, why? I am the one writing the code, "wasting" my time. All you have to do is sit back and determine for yourself whether this information has value to you.

You've mistaken disagreement for hostility. A sad factor in today's society.
 
One thing I loved about the CTX was target trace. I could literally hunt in a bed of nails, and pick out coins, even amongst the falsing. I pulled a handful of nails out of a hole and still managed to find a walker half. There were more nails in the plug too, I did my best to make sure there was no silver left though :yes: let these manufacturers battle over superior performance in ferrous trash, we as the consumers will benefit in the end. Some of these tests are completely farfetched compared to real life scenarios, but there is some value in them, in the event you are hunting in carpets of nails. I cannot fathom the amount of good finds being masked by heavy iron presence, and the more tools to help sort through it all the better. :my2cents:
 

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I mean, I can do both.

Not sure about you, but I can only detect for like 5-6 hours at most per day before my back starts to get sketchy. I just like to use my down time productively too. Everybody has to rest the body, and while I do that, I can try to learn stuff to maximize my finds when I am detecting. I advocate for all forms of learning, real world and theory based.

This whole argument that, "Oh you enjoy your computer stuff while I find stuff.", doesn't make sense because nobody can actually use all of their waking moments detecting, so there is no trade-off to be had. It's a false dichotomy.

Though, I am flattered that you are worried about me not finding enough stuff. Me just living in Europe gives me a massive advantage in terms of finds (I am guessing you don't find many Viking artifacts in Texas?), so rest assured, I am doing just fine :)

The fallacy in your computer modeling is, the computer doesn't know how much iron or modern trash is in the ground. Ergo, your computer is guessing. :lol: Some design airplanes. Some fly the airplanes. The guy who designs it can't necessarily fly it. Most guys who detect couldn't design their detector nor do they care about designing it as long as it works.

If your back hurts, there are devices that can help you.
 
The fallacy in your computer modeling is, the computer doesn't know how much iron or modern trash is in the ground.

Ugh... This statement proves I have totally failed to communicate anything to you at all. Shame on me for continuing to try. Your mind is an impenetrable fortress.

Bye.
 
Thread has been extensively edited. Please keep responses "Friendly"
 
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I watched video.
I never did see the gent sweep just the nails (in configuration used in video with coin) without the coin present.
So test is null and void imo.
Folks can place as much stock in video as they wish.
Also notice no low conductive coin tried.
Where was detector tone break set at?
Was he using factory tone break? Or dialing into iron region?

Cheers.
Video bit hokey to me.
 
I watched video.
I never did see the gent sweep just the nails (in configuration used in video with coin) without the coin present.
So test is null and void imo.
Folks can place as much stock in video as they wish.
Also notice no low conductive coin tried.
Where was detector tone break set at?
Was he using factory tone break? Or dialing into iron region?

Cheers.
Video bit hokey to me.

It's be a Regulator Warrior time so..........He removes the silver coin and detects just the nails at about the 2:00 minute or so mark of the video so hopefully that will make it a very valid video for most.

Park M1, Pitch tones, discrimination setting A=all targets accepted, iron volume was on....didn't show the volume level, reactivity 10 (highest setting), Iron Filter 5, Iron Filter Stability 4. The Pitch Tone default tone break is 10 but don't know where his was set.

Liam is a decent fellow that is very excited about metal detecting, he makes plenty of YouTube content creator and metal detecting mistakes on camera, he doesn't get butt hurt when he is corrected, he takes it seriously, he owns and uses Deus 2 and the Legend and he has limited resources. Hokey.......definitely your opinion tnsharphooter. A decent source for another opinion......why not.

Here is his sequel to that Legend test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUj3MEaJqwg


I haven't had a chance to look closely at his Deus 2 settings yet. Tnsharpshooter, you may have some suggestions for him. He wouldn't mind reading them especially since he may be using settings that he got from your testing videos!
 
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I watched video.
I never did see the gent sweep just the nails (in configuration used in video with coin) without the coin present.
So test is null and void imo.
Folks can place as much stock in video as they wish.
Also notice no low conductive coin tried.
Where was detector tone break set at?
Was he using factory tone break? Or dialing into iron region?

Cheers.
Video bit hokey to me.



And yet no such critique when you posted Calabash Digger's video wherein he did pretty much the same with the Deus II. :roll:
 
And yet no such critique when you posted Calabash Digger's video wherein he did pretty much the same with the Deus II. :roll:

Sadly some of these vids they go in psychologically needing a detector to fail, so they make sure it does. You go back on the previous detector praise vids then fast forward to all the failures it has when it used to be good at it. If you listen to their breathing they are nervous that the junk detector might actually go off. Then they breath easier when it doesn't so they don't have to start filming again. It's the vids where they are angry and want to prove everyone else is below them. I used to fish a lot of tournaments and always found it odd a $35 grand Ranger flats boat anchored made someone fish better than when they had a $1200 Stumpknocker anchored on their same spot. Only difference i ever really noticed was the Stumpknocker never got washed and the Flats boat got the bleach and scrub brush for an hour after fishing:lol:
 
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I realize the DFX is outdated technology. My point was to show why I don't put any weight behind these nail tests. It works the same for bottle caps, foil, any target.

If you set your discrimination just to the point to discriminate a bottle cap but except everything else, you can make it seem like a detector can find a coin along with a bottle cap. IF the detectors got a good number of target segments. A detector with 30 segments isn't going to look as impressive as one with 100.

I used the DFX as an example because it has 191 segments, but it never was a heavy trash contender just a great coin shooter. I tried the XLT several times but we just never connected. It never found a single coin the DFX missed in our city park which has always been my natural test garden.

Give me in the field live test comparisons, and the cream ALWAYS rises to the top and stands the test of time. Will we still be talking about these detectors in 10 years? I'll bet the farm the E-Trac will still be a market seller

Just saying.
 
I realize the DFX is outdated technology. My point was to show why I don't put any weight behind these nail tests. It works the same for bottle caps, foil, any target.

If you set your discrimination just to the point to discriminate a bottle cap but except everything else, you can make it seem like a detector can find a coin along with a bottle cap. IF the detectors got a good number of target segments. A detector with 30 segments isn't going to look as impressive as one with 100.

I used the DFX as an example because it has 191 segments, but it never was a heavy trash contender just a great coin shooter. I tried the XLT several times but we just never connected. It never found a single coin the DFX missed in our city park which has always been my natural test garden.

Give me in the field live test comparisons, and the cream ALWAYS rises to the top and stands the test of time. Will we still be talking about these detectors in 10 years? I'll bet the farm the E-Trac will still be a market seller

Just saying.

DFX is still kicking. I still don't consider it outdated. Rather one of the best inventions in metal detecting history. It's how i met my girlfriend since we both used a DFX:shock: I did run across someone using one on the beach a couple days ago. If i wasn't testing a new detector i'd still break out one of my DFX's from time to time. Of course i have old Lee Iacocca ebikes that were before an ebikes time. Back then they didn't sell good and people consider them obsolete today. Try finding an ebike today with cruise control and a horn. These were made back in 1999:lol:
 
I’ll be showing the Legend soon. If things go as planned.

Will be compared to Etrac, Deus 2, and Equinox 800.
Various tests both on top of the ground, elevated and buried targets and in the wild.
Some real good tests.
Not all models will be compared on all tests. Some tests will show all depending.

Folks can watch and draw their own conclusions.
Honest straight down the line.
The good, bad and the ugly of all models will be shown.
 
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