Public Lands: Permission Still Needed

I kind do same for fishing. Unless it says no fishing. I’m in. Sheiii might even be fishing next to that sign. Unless it’s private land, posted no trespassing, federal,state,national land. I’d risk it. Most those other entities. “You gotta get outta here’ or hey what u doing.. wtf they gonna do.. they probably wouldn’t know what to actually charge u with, and unless your a complete prick. You can usually get away with a “oh man i been detecting here my hole life” first I’ve heard.
Hay either way. Each his own. All i know is I’ve NEVER been kicked out any spots.
 
My wife and I were vacationing in the Virgin Islands some years ago ( her family lives there) when a fellow saw us metal detecting a beach and approached us and told us that a Bride and groom while having a wedding on St. John, dropped the wedding ring in the sand on the beach earlier that day. He thought we may be able to help the couple find the ring. I contacted the Parks department since most of St. John is a state park. They refused to allow us on the Island with a metal detector. I assume the ring is still there some where on the beach.
That’s hilarious. Since when does a park official govern what can be brought into that little sand spit of n land. Again, if it’s not lawfully prohibited go ahead if your nerves can take it.
 
My wife and I were vacationing in the Virgin Islands some years ago ( her family lives there) when a fellow saw us metal detecting a beach and approached us and told us that a Bride and groom while having a wedding on St. John, dropped the wedding ring in the sand on the beach earlier that day. He thought we may be able to help the couple find the ring. I contacted the Parks department since most of St. John is a state park. They refused to allow us on the Island with a metal detector. I assume the ring is still there some where on the beach.

And let me ask you : If you had simply gone and helped this distraught couple find their wedding ring, do you think anyone would have *really* have noticed you, or cared less ? No. Of course not.
 
My personal method has been to do my research and on the local public areas that I have found to have explicit prohibitions against metal detection, I am working with the people in charge to get permission to detect. I have patience and perseverance and excruciating manners which is going to make it hard to ignore me or just make me go away and also I have spent my career getting things done. So my expectation is that as I can show successful arrangements with private landowners and success at public lands in the area I will eventually be able to work with the other public officials to set up arrangements as well.
 
And let me ask you : If you had simply gone and helped this distraught couple find their wedding ring, do you think anyone would have *really* have noticed you, or cared less ? No. Of course not.
They have specific rules in the Islands, No metal detectors in state and federal parks and they will enforce it. If you have never been incarcerated down there, i don't think you would want to poke that bear.
 
I kind do same for fishing. Unless it says no fishing. I’m in. Sheiii might even be fishing next to that sign. Unless it’s private land, posted no trespassing, federal,state,national land. I’d risk it. Most those other entities. “You gotta get outta here’ or hey what u doing.. wtf they gonna do.. they probably wouldn’t know what to actually charge u with, and unless your a complete prick. You can usually get away with a “oh man i been detecting here my hole life” first I’ve heard.
Hay either way. Each his own. All i know is I’ve NEVER been kicked out any spots.
I have, Magen's beach St. Thomas USVI, 2011. This was the second day we metal detected this beach. We even had a life guard come up to us and ask us about the detectors and thought it was really neat. But on the second outing, we were met my a park employee and a off duty cop who asked us "what the hell do you think you are doing?" We said metal detecting, they said metal detectors are not allowed in the park and beach. I asked who says, they referred me to a fairly large sign at the entrance to the beach that specifically said "No metal detecting allowed". We were with a local who didn't mention about no detectors, but ignorance is no excuse, I had to beg forgiveness because none of us ever even read the sign.

Another incident was a county park here in central Florida, where I was told by a parks worker to check in with the office before detecting, which I did and was told to report back to the office when I was finished before leaving, which I also did. They asked me to produce my finds which I did, which included a few pieces of silver coins and a small ring. They confiscated my finds, told me I'm not allowed to metal detect the park and showed me in the parks rules. I couldn't argue with that how ever I did ask why wasn't I informed about this before hand, they responded that they thought I would be allowed, but after checking with a supervisor, who told them to check the rules, they realized they were wrong.

So it does happen and when it does, I move on rather than picking a fight I most certainly would lose.
 
I have, Magen's beach St. Thomas USVI, 2011. This was the second day we metal detected this beach. We even had a life guard come up to us and ask us about the detectors and thought it was really neat. But on the second outing, we were met my a park employee and a off duty cop who asked us "what the hell do you think you are doing?" We said metal detecting, they said metal detectors are not allowed in the park and beach. I asked who says, they referred me to a fairly large sign at the entrance to the beach that specifically said "No metal detecting allowed". We were with a local who didn't mention about no detectors, but ignorance is no excuse, I had to beg forgiveness because none of us ever even read the sign.

Another incident was a county park here in central Florida, where I was told by a parks worker to check in with the office before detecting, which I did and was told to report back to the office when I was finished before leaving, which I also did. They asked me to produce my finds which I did, which included a few pieces of silver coins and a small ring. They confiscated my finds, told me I'm not allowed to metal detect the park and showed me in the parks rules. I couldn't argue with that how ever I did ask why wasn't I informed about this before hand, they responded that they thought I would be allowed, but after checking with a supervisor, who told them to check the rules, they realized they were wrong.

So it does happen and when it does, I move on rather than picking a fight I most certainly would lose.
Why did a park worker even have u check in “ before detecting “ did he see you with MD out?? maybe u opened that can of worms by asking.
 
My wife and I were vacationing in the Virgin Islands some years ago ( her family lives there) when a fellow saw us metal detecting a beach and approached us and told us that a Bride and groom while having a wedding on St. John, dropped the wedding ring in the sand on the beach earlier that day. He thought we may be able to help the couple find the ring. I contacted the Parks department since most of St. John is a state park. They refused to allow us on the Island with a metal detector. I assume the ring is still there some where on the beach.
In that case I can understand contacting the officials. Kinda sucks that you did not get permission. But being in another country and breaking the law is not a good thing.
 
Why did a park worker even have u check in “ before detecting “ did he see you with MD out?? maybe u opened that can of worms by asking.
He saw us out metal detecting, which we had been there before. I think they saw us before and decided to dust off the rule book. Unfortunately people and especially metal detectorist have this idea of finders keepers loser weepers, but that is contrary to the law. Just because someone loses something, doesn't limit their ownership of that particular item. There was a big dust up about this in Florida 10 or so years ago, which is why I try and not bristle up when confronted by an official when metal detecting a particular area. I try to explain that I make attempts to find the owners of property that I find and I mainly do it for exercise and the thrill of the hunt. If I detect someone's private property with permission, I turn over all finds to the owner.

Now when it comes to hunting parks, I don't ask for permission, I just hunt, if they ask me to leave, I leave, no problem. But I do not hunt state and federal parks, they are no no's and you could and probably go to jail for hunting them.
 
In that case I can understand contacting the officials. Kinda sucks that you did not get permission. But being in another country and breaking the law is not a good thing.
St. John is a US Virgin Islands island and as such is subject to US laws and whatever laws, etc., they cobble together locally. I have heard rumors that USVI local gummint is kinda dicey in some ways (friends of Jeff Epstein, for instance). Wikipedia says that over half of St. John is National Park administered. I don't know why the residuum of St. John can't be metal detected unless there is a local bugaboo of some sort or needs private permissions. Beaches??? I don't know how beaches would work marginal to the St. John National Park. I've never been able to figure out where the land ends and the sea floor begins (between mean high high tide and mean low low tide - to include storm surges???) and if the sea floor is also off limits and why and how far out. Presumably, Mel Fisher - grade salvors require permits, but I doubt that casual MD folks would hit the radar screen seriously. The notion of denial of access owing to possession of a metal detector, while traveling, somehow doesn't pass the smell test and is probably assailable. How would they know, for instance, since there should be no customs search for US citizens? What is to stop an American from coming in with a metal detector by boat from another USVI island? I note that they have a "2019 USVI Code" from the USVI legislature. I also note that, according to Wikipedia, they have a slew of gun laws in USVI, while claiming to observe the US Constitution. If so, I suggest that they are all likely unconstitutional and assailable if properly assailed. They get lots of boaters coming from the USA mainland and many come armed, owing to Caribbean piracy occurrences (such as recent murders in Trinidad area). Maybe Scoundrel and the South Florida gang, or others, have some additional information from personal experience. If so, I'd like their 2Cents worth.
 
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They have specific rules in the Islands, No metal detectors in state and federal parks and they will enforce it. If you have never been incarcerated down there, i don't think you would want to poke that bear.

If you are legitimately looking for a ring that you lost (or are commissioned to find), then : No one is going to be "incarcerated" for this legitimate activity.

Let me give you an example : We have a small stretch (fortunately very small) of beaches here in CA known as GGNRA (Golden Gate National Recreation area). Which are administered by the feds (as opposed to state or county or city). And rumor has it that md'ing is not allowed on those particular beaches. And for sake of argument, let's say that's truly the case. Ok check this out :

One day a buddy of mine was looking at Craigslist lost & found. He saw an ad for "Lost ring at the beach" and "reward". So he reached out to the person, offering his services. The two of them arranged to meet, where the gal was going to show my friend the suspected zone. But as the two of them made plans to meet, my buddy realized that this particular zone was one of the beaches within GGNRA

So he reached out to a local CA md'ing web discussion group, fretting himself silly as to how he could go about this. Ie.: "Do I need permission ?" blah blah. In the end, he decided that this is a legit search, and no heartless cruel ranger is going to forbid someone from a sincere search like this. I mean, it's not as if we're talking about sensitive historic monuments. IT'S A BEACH FOR PETE SAKE !!

So he printed out her L&F ad, and went to search for the ring. Funny thing was, no one said so much as "boo" to him. He was totally ignored during his multi-hour search.

I'll tell you what : If you can show me any example, of someone being "incarcerated", for a true commissioned posse hunt, on beach sand there at your beach, then : I will give you a crisp $100 bill. Ok ? There's a stack of benjamins waiting here for you.

The only time you'll hear of "incarceration" in connection with md'ing, is going to be someone night-sneaking obvious historic sensitive monuments. Or someone being obnoxious who can't take a warning, etc...... But if you've got an example to the contrary, then : I'm all ears.
 
I have, Magen's beach St. Thomas USVI, 2011. ...

I read this post , with keen interest. A couple of observations :

1) You weren't "incarcerated", were you ?

2) I have a sneaking suspicion why any such rules exist, at those particular beaches, IN THE FIRST PLACE. Care to take a guess ? (And no it's not that "someone must have left holes" or "archie concerns")
 
...... maybe u opened that can of worms by asking.

I have seen this happen here in CA : There's places and beaches where md'ing was historically never an issue . Until the day that someone (bless their little hearts) took it upon themselves to ask "Can I ?" Then their "pressing question" gets bandied back and forth between desks , and ends up at some archie's desk in Sacramento. Who passes back down a "no".

Fortunately, in most of those cases, it never becomes codified (and you can still detect till you're blue in the face).

Moral of the story ? STOP SWATTING HORNET'S NESTS ! Eh ?
 
He saw us out metal detecting, which we had been there before. I think they saw us before and decided to dust off the rule book. Unfortunately people and especially metal detectorist have this idea of finders keepers loser weepers, but that is contrary to the law. Just because someone loses something, doesn't limit their ownership of that particular item. There was a big dust up about this in Florida 10 or so years ago, which is why I try and not bristle up when confronted by an official when metal detecting a particular area. I try to explain that I make attempts to find the owners of property that I find and I mainly do it for exercise and the thrill of the hunt. If I detect someone's private property with permission, I turn over all finds to the owner.

Now when it comes to hunting parks, I don't ask for permission, I just hunt, if they ask me to leave, I leave, no problem. But I do not hunt state and federal parks, they are no no's and you could and probably go to jail for hunting them.

Couple of responses :

1) It is not true that all state and federal land is "off-limits" to md'ing. For example on the Fed issue : BLM and NFS are not off-limits to md'ing (unless you're at a particular historic themed monument spot within the broader system).

2) You're right that all 50 states have Lost & Found laws. That were born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s. They typically stipulate that if you find an object worth $50 or $100 or more, that you are required to turn it in to the police. And then, after 30 days, if no one claims it, you can go claim it for yourself. And there might be storage charges. And in CA for example, if the object were a higher value item (I think $500 or more), the police will publish a "found" ad in the local paper. And if you come in 30 days later to claim it, you must pay the cost of whatever that classified ad costed them

And the law makes no qualifications on when YOU think the item was lost (ie.: if someone is or isn't still looking for a ring). Ok, so take a look at the show & tell sections on this forum. Do you think that all those rings and such, that we're all finding, are going through these channels ? I mean, you're certainly welcome to trot down to the police station with each ring you find, but what I'm saying is : Do you think anyone really cares ? Do you think that was the purpose of the law ? If it were an all-fired concern, then certainly LEO's could monitor our forums, and come bust our chops each time they see a goodie posted here, eh ? But alas, it's not happening.
 
If you are legitimately looking for a ring that you lost (or are commissioned to find), then : No one is going to be "incarcerated" for this legitimate activity.

Let me give you an example : We have a small stretch (fortunately very small) of beaches here in CA known as GGNRA (Golden Gate National Recreation area). Which are administered by the feds (as opposed to state or county or city). And rumor has it that md'ing is not allowed on those particular beaches. And for sake of argument, let's say that's truly the case. Ok check this out :

One day a buddy of mine was looking at Craigslist lost & found. He saw an ad for "Lost ring at the beach" and "reward". So he reached out to the person, offering his services. The two of them arranged to meet, where the gal was going to show my friend the suspected zone. But as the two of them made plans to meet, my buddy realized that this particular zone was one of the beaches within GGNRA

So he reached out to a local CA md'ing web discussion group, fretting himself silly as to how he could go about this. Ie.: "Do I need permission ?" blah blah. In the end, he decided that this is a legit search, and no heartless cruel ranger is going to forbid someone from a sincere search like this. I mean, it's not as if we're talking about sensitive historic monuments. IT'S A BEACH FOR PETE SAKE !!

So he printed out her L&F ad, and went to search for the ring. Funny thing was, no one said so much as "boo" to him. He was totally ignored during his multi-hour search.

I'll tell you what : If you can show me any example, of someone being "incarcerated", for a true commissioned posse hunt, on beach sand there at your beach, then : I will give you a crisp $100 bill. Ok ? There's a stack of benjamins waiting here for you.

The only time you'll hear of "incarceration" in connection with md'ing, is going to be someone night-sneaking obvious historic sensitive monuments. Or someone being obnoxious who can't take a warning, etc...... But if you've got an example to the contrary, then : I'm all ears.
There was one case about 10 years ago at the Georgia Kennesaw Mountain Civil War Battlefield Federal park. They caught a man on park property with three ringers in his possession and a metal detector. I am not sure if he was convicted and jailed. He was also very stupid.
 
There was one case about 10 years ago at the Georgia Kennesaw Mountain Civil War Battlefield Federal park. They caught a man on park property with three ringers in his possession and a metal detector. I am not sure if he was convicted and jailed. He was also very stupid.

And guess what ? He ^ ^ was not searching a timid benign sandy beach, for a legitimate posse commissioned hunt for someone's lost ring. Instead he was hunting obvious off-limits historic monument for cultural heritage old stuff. Hence not at all the scenario that mtdoramike and I are discussing.
 
Couple of responses :

1) It is not true that all state and federal land is "off-limits" to md'ing. For example on the Fed issue : BLM and NFS are not off-limits to md'ing (unless you're at a particular historic themed monument spot within the broader system).

2) You're right that all 50 states have Lost & Found laws. That were born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s. They typically stipulate that if you find an object worth $50 or $100 or more, that you are required to turn it in to the police. And then, after 30 days, if no one claims it, you can go claim it for yourself. And there might be storage charges. And in CA for example, if the object were a higher value item (I think $500 or more), the police will publish a "found" ad in the local paper. And if you come in 30 days later to claim it, you must pay the cost of whatever that classified ad costed them

And the law makes no qualifications on when YOU think the item was lost (ie.: if someone is or isn't still looking for a ring). Ok, so take a look at the show & tell sections on this forum. Do you think that all those rings and such, that we're all finding, are going through these channels ? I mean, you're certainly welcome to trot down to the police station with each ring you find, but what I'm saying is : Do you think anyone really cares ? Do you think that was the purpose of the law ? If it were an all-fired concern, then certainly LEO's could monitor our forums, and come bust our chops each time they see a goodie posted here, eh ? But alas, it's not happening.
Here in my area especially my town, it's 90 day retainer before you can make claim on it. No, I don't think most would make a stink about it, but my point being they can. It happened here years ago, I don't recall the situation off hand, but it was brought up then. I recall my hunting buddy getting discouraged to the point once he heard about it, she didn't even want to go out hunting anymore. I had to point out, we weren't doing it to make a living, only for exercise and the thrill of the hunt.
 
Here in my area especially my town, it's 90 day retainer before you can make claim on it. No, I don't think most would make a stink about it, but my point being they can. It happened here years ago, I don't recall the situation off hand, but it was brought up then. I recall my hunting buddy getting discouraged to the point once he heard about it, she didn't even want to go out hunting anymore. I had to point out, we weren't doing it to make a living, only for exercise and the thrill of the hunt.

Yes, you're right. Technically LEO's could stake out our md'ing show & tell web forums, and wait to see when someone posts their latest ring finds, etc.... And then pursue them to see if they dutifully took them to their closest police station. Could that happen ? Technically yes.

And you want to get EVEN MORE TECHNICAL ? I'll tell a true story in the next post for you........
 
I have seen this happen here in CA : There's places and beaches where md'ing was historically never an issue . Until the day that someone (bless their little hearts) took it upon themselves to ask "Can I ?" Then their "pressing question" gets bandied back and forth between desks , and ends up at some archie's desk in Sacramento. Who passes back down a "no".

Fortunately, in most of those cases, it never becomes codified (and you can still detect till you're blue in the face).

Moral of the story ? STOP SWATTING HORNET'S NESTS ! Eh ?
Sounds like my motto in life (at least that what my wife claims) it's easier for me to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission.
 
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