Proving to myself which is better 900 or Manticore

[tnsharpshooter]

Sure it’s practical in a park. Why? Remember the target is alerted on. And the trace will be where it is. Giving bigtime clue of high possibility of down the barrel nail situation. User can still rotate on target and make dig decision.
Also remember the nail has to exist (the condition) for detector to behave like it does with the settings.
I would expect isolated instances for this to exist. Yet one or more limited instances could infact be a nice find lurking.

Or by not doing with Manticore the nice find could remain undiscovered for longer period depending (odds wise).

There could be instances running manticore as such would yield no such target scenarios. Very possible.
There is only one way to find out though. Unless one can grid every basically square inch from different angles with coil sweeps.

 

[Diga]

Think it has more to do with method Minelab gave user to alter Manticore reporting.

To be clear, are you saying that even if the engineers provided a low enough IB on the Nox, you still don't think the Nox would hit the ring?

Nice video Jim I would not know which to dig with the legend but the manticore is showing me which one to dig By screen should be obvious unlike the legend .

Have a ? for Diga on a hard false such as a 90 degree nail that high tones either way you sweep it where do the bars run fc or nf ;
More than likely it will be nf I don't consider a bottle cap a hard false there are two falses the one under a coil the double false and the throw en false of the end of a nail or iron that is not under the coil . These are hard falses that changing IB will do nothing because they are a non-ferrous returns even though they are ferrous . If you got rid of these falses you would get rid of all non-ferrous returns from penny up . sube

In Jeff's video, both detectors are correctly showing a ferrous / nonferrous signal on both tests. On the dime and nut, the Legend is showing the ferrous and the correct nonferrous ID of the dime. I would definitely dig that. So sube, why do you say you don't know if you would dig that?

The Manti is also showing a ferrous / nonferrous signal on the nut and dime, with the correct nonferrous ID, which is also plotted on the 2D screen. Of course, I would dig that as well. So Sube, what are you finding so "obvious" about what the Manti is showing, that the legend isn't?

Those caps are a pain for any hunter. Does anyone even know the exact metal composition of those? Steel with some aluminum? Anyway, if I was at a site in which those caps were a big problem, I would raise the bottle cap reject just enough so that those caps start to give a "don't dig me" signal.

Also, Sube...yes I know what you mean about the IB doing nothing on a hard false. I'll try and do an in ground video with all the nails in my backyard, as soon as the 10" of snow melts, and the ground thaws.

 

[sube]

To be clear, are you saying that even if the engineers provided a low enough IB on the Nox, you still don't think the Nox would hit the ring?





In Jeff's video, both detectors are correctly showing a ferrous / nonferrous signal on both tests. On the dime and nut, the Legend is showing the ferrous and the correct nonferrous ID of the dime. I would definitely dig that. So sube, why do you say you don't know if you would dig that?

The Manti is also showing a ferrous / nonferrous signal on the nut and dime, with the correct nonferrous ID, which is also plotted on the 2D screen. Of course, I would dig that as well. So Sube, what are you finding so "obvious" about what the Manti is showing, that the legend isn't?

Those caps are a pain for any hunter. Does anyone even know the exact metal composition of those? Steel with some aluminum? Anyway, if I was at a site in which those caps were a big problem, I would raise the bottle cap reject just enough so that those caps start to give a "don't dig me" signal.

Also, Sube...yes I know what you mean about the IB doing nothing on a hard false. I'll try and do an in ground video with all the nails in my backyard, as soon as the 10" of snow melts, and the ground thaws.

So Sube, what are you finding so "obvious" about what the Manti is showing, that the legend isn't?
Instead of looking at bouncing #s I plainly see it on the screen .
Minelab was always good with bottle caps never dug more than a few with the CTX they were easy to tell with a glance of the screen .
People also said the CTX was not a upgrade to the e-trac because of said screen down the barrel and many other combinations of targets the e-trac was blind to .
Yet the CTX would display on the screen targets that e-trac and others failed to .
Then there was ferrous coin separation .
Getting back on topic the CTX in pinpoint mode with TT would alert to down the barrel targets with sound and picture of targets on the screen which the e-trac and your legend is blind to .
Also you could build a picture of any wiggle or sweep you choose to and accurately pinpoint position of the target among the other targets .
Now the manti will tone in disc mode unlike the CTX .This is a improvement however the target mixed with iron ID will be incorrect so this is why I sold the manti still have the CTX deus2 and nox 800.
But if I wanted the best chance at said targets and only had one choice it would be the manti and not the 900 or others .
As I said clearly seeing the target on the screen as oppose to flipping #s especially in a target rich environment make the dig me signal easier then again these target combos that Jim displayed are not even complex as most that I hunt in .
TSS from a average hunter there not going to hunt as said but the tech is there to out do the average hunter using all the tools the detector has to offer . Must people never get there they wait for the next detector to do it for them . But the guy using the older detector has already cleaned out what the next detector would of seen . When he gets the new detector he will be cleaning out what the next detector will find alway a step ahead because he uses all the tools he has available . sube

 

[Diga]

Instead of looking at bouncing #s I plainly see it on the screen .

Hmmm. I can "plainly see" the large and correct dime ID number on the Legend

I can also plainly see how one could find the 2D display more visually appealing. However, I suspect that any Manti user would have dug that signal by what the ID and tones indicate, and regardless of what the 2D screen shows...just like any Legend owner would have dug that signal.

Would you have dug that signal on the Manticore if it didn't have the 2D screen?

 

[sube]

Hmmm. I can "plainly see" the large and correct dime ID number on the Legend

I can also plainly see how one could find the 2D display more visually appealing. However, I suspect that any Manti user would have dug that signal by what the ID and tones indicate, and regardless of what the 2D screen shows...just like any Legend owner would have dug that signal.

Would you have dug that signal on the Manticore if it didn't have the 2D screen?

As I said clearly seeing the target on the screen as oppose to flipping #s especially in a target rich environment make the dig me signal easier then again these target combos that Jim displayed are not even complex as most that I hunt in .
I guess we can agree to disagree sube

 

[Cherry Picker]

I think TT has great possibilities. We have only begun to explore the capabilities with the CTX, and expanding with the Manticore. I think any new tech for advancing detector technology is a good thing. The Legend rocks of that there is no doubt, but I do feel the 2D screen can give TID a boost on the Manticore.

 

[Diga]

Sube,

In Jeff's video on the co-located nut and dime:

1) The Manticore clearly shows a high conductor ID. Would you have immediately dug that signal even if the Manticore didn't have the 2D part of the screen?

2) I'll assume any Manticore user would say "yes" to question #1. As such, since the Legend also clearly shows a high conductor ID, any Legend user would also have immediately dug that signal.

For all Manticore users:

In iron infested sites with countless co-located ferrous and nonferrous targets, does the 2D screen look like a Rorschach test given the 5 second decay rate? I'm not trying to be flippant with that question. I really would like to know, because in all the Manticore videos I've seen, no one shows what the 2D screen looks like in machine gun trashy sites (especially ferrous trash).

 

[jmaclen]

As I said clearly seeing the target on the screen as oppose to flipping #s especially in a target rich environment make the dig me signal easier then again these target combos that Jim displayed are not even complex as most that I hunt in .
I guess we can agree to disagree sube

The Legend and Manticore have a lot to offer for sure. I would and have picked the Legend over Deus 2 and the Equinox 800/900 for several sites. I just really like the tones on the Legend, it handles iron very well and it is not nearly as twitchy or reactive on highly iron mineralized dirt as those others. Gold prospecting and ghost town hunting with the Legend is very pleasant and rewarding. I haven't been able to do that kind of hunting with the Manticore yet.

Just to clarify, the dirt used in the video I posted is not from a bag. It's from my backyard and will make many great single frequency detectors completely overload if their coil gets anywhere near it unless I turn the sensitivity way down due to the amount of magnetite and volcanic material in it. The Manticore and Legend handle it beautifully. The Equinox 900...........not nearly as well which may have something to do with the difference between Multi IQ as it is implemented on the 900 and Multi IQ+ on the Manticore. Etrac, CTX 3030, DFX and V3i don't like this dirt one bit.

One thing I just can't do is watch the numbers flying around on screens like they were in the video when it's a complex situation. There is no way that I can keep up with all that with 68 year old eyes. The same problem happens for me using full tones on either detector for park hunting. In the video the Legend and Manticore are basically in 5 tones with tone breaks setup very similarly and those tones and their slight nuances are what I mostly depend on and hunt with in a totally trashed park. However, being able to look at the Manticore's 2D screen and actually see one target or colocated targets is very helpful. So this form of target trace is certainly a new thing for me and I am learning to use it.

I did not pick those targets randomly for the video that I posted. I actually had that exact situation last week at a park where I had never found any silver. Since it was built in 1959 and is full to the brim with trash, I haven't expected much from it. It's a great place for recent jewelry drops and for clad and it is within walking distance of my house so I hunt it, but it has the same kind of hot dirt that is in my backyard too.

Since it's close to my house, I have hunted it and the exact spot where I found a silver Roosevelt dime more times than I can remember with detectors ranging from a Tesoro Silver UMax, all of the Whites MXT variants including the MX7, DFX, V3i, Fisher F75, F19, Deus 1, ORX, Deus 2, Racer, Racer 2, Multi Kruzer, AT Pro, Gold and Max and Minelab's like the Etrac, CTX, Xterra 705, Nox 600, 800, 900 and now the Legend and Manticore. I did take the Vanquish models there are few times but I had to reject most or all of the iron target IDs in order to not hear out of ground balance responses coming from the ground itself at the end of every swing or if I need to raise or lower the coil. So, with the Vanquish models, they wouldn't ground balance and colocated ferrous targets masked non ferrous targets badly.

The silver Rosie was under a tree at about 5" deep. About 2" away and to the right was a near surface Corona cap like the one in the video and just to the left of the dime and about 3" deep was a rusted nut. I was flagging targets with the Legend at the time so I could compare them with the Manticore. The Legend reacted just like it did in the video since I hunt in Park 1 with iron filter 1, iron stability 4 and bottle cap 1 which is just enough iron bias to make the Corona's audio start to break up if they are near the surface. I definitely flagged that target with the Legend since it had possibilities. Before I knew what this complex target was, I could not isolate a single high conductor target with the Legend using its audio, target IDs or onboard pinpoint function. The target(s) were just too complex. Recovery speed was on 5. That's what I run in these trashed parks. I approached that flagged target with the Manticore from the same direction and I did not turn on it. The Manticore (ATG Multi, recovery speed 5, all targets accepted), immediately isolated the dime from the other targets which surprised me and one look at the screen cemented the FACT that there was a strong, well defined high conductor target in all of that jumpy target ID and audio cacophony. Seeing a large, well defined, very dark smudge in the high conductor range instead of a very small, faint, probably the result of falsing shadowy smudge sealed it for me. That is not the first time this has happened, so at least for me the Manticore's 2D screen is definitely a big part of the + in the Multi IQ +.

 

[jmaclen]

Sube,

In Jeff's video on the co-located nut and dime:

1) The Manticore clearly shows a high conductor ID. Would you have immediately dug that signal even if the Manticore didn't have the 2D part of the screen?

2) I'll assume any Manticore user would say "yes" to question #1. As such, since the Legend also clearly shows a high conductor ID, any Legend user would also have immediately dug that signal.

For all Manticore users:

In iron infested sites with countless co-located ferrous and nonferrous targets, does the 2D screen look like a Rorschach test given the 5 second decay rate? I'm not trying to be flippant with that question. I really would like to know, because in all the Manticore videos I've seen, no one shows what the 2D screen looks like in machine gun trashy sites (especially ferrous trash).

Tyler, I don't understand why you are so fixated on the Manticore's 2D screen and its usage.

It is just another tool in the tool box. It is not the only tool that makes the Manticore a fine detector and an improvement over its predecessors. So far it works well for some situations. I have not been able to take my Manticore to an area with lots of surface to near surface 1800s iron trash yet. So I can't say anything about iron infested sites from experience. The parks I have hunted with it and been very successful have iron, steel and modern aluminum trash all mixed together.

This is the results from about 20 hunts in the last 8 weeks with the Manticore at trashed public parks that I have hunted before with detectors like the Legend, all of the Equinox models, Etrac, CTX 3030, Deus 1, ORX and Deus 2.

All of the excellent tools on the Manticore have helped me decide to dig these targets that I had no clue were in these parks. The 5" Rosie that I found on Saturday before we had another blizzard is not in the photo. All of the targets in the photo were 6" deep or deeper (12" for the pocket watch) in moderate to high iron mineralized dirt with complex colocated targets nearby. None of these were easy, standalone target digs. Just the mineralization in this ground will mask these targets from single frequency detectors when they are deeper than 5" or so. Not shown are 182 wheat pennies that also were not simple, standalone targets but instead were deep, and had complex audio target responses. That small gold chain was 6" deep. I have no clue how the Manticore hit it..........

 

[Diga]

I originally posted the following questions to Sube. In hindsight, I'll post them again and pose the question to all Manticore owners. You too Jeff! lol

In Jeff's video on the co-located nut and dime:

1) The Manticore clearly shows a high conductor ID. Would you have immediately dug that signal even if the Manticore didn't have the 2D part of the screen?

2) I'll assume any Manticore user would say "yes" to question #1. As such, since the Legend also clearly shows a high conductor ID, any Legend user would also have immediately dug that signal.

 

[Diga]

Tyler, I don't understand why you are so fixated on the Manticore's 2D screen and its usage.

It is just another tool in the tool box. It is not the only tool that makes the Manticore a fine detector and an improvement over its predecessors.

Well Jeff, I'm actually fixated about any type of new detector technology or feature. Especially if it has a possibility of providing a significant advantage over the detectors I've used.

Admittedly though, I have been much more fixated on the 2D screen, since a particular conversation I had with a Minelab rep that runs a Facebook page. Long story short, the rep was telling newbies that not only could the 2D screen distinguish between pull tabs and gold rings, but even more ludicrous, the rep was telling newbies that the 2D screen shows the shape of targets.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Some folks are not understanding potential of 2 d screen on manticore.
An example.
A Collocated lower conductor could exist with higher conductor.
And one ID is given. An ID quite lower than what typical higher conductor reads.
So based on meter ID user is none the wiser. Are they?
Yet Manticore even though it is giving lower ID, the trace data is elongated. This elongation can tell the user. Be suspicious of ID. And maybe rotate on target and Higher ID could be witnessed.
If the ID presented on a target is lower ID yet trace is tight dot. Odds wise this likely not a collocated higher and lower conductor where ID is skewed lower. Remember I said odds wise.
Now if a person is digging all signals gotten this means nothing to a detectorist doing as such.
System is not bulletproof proof. Yet system can give some good data. For user to use.

It also helps if a user is familiar with vlf detector ops behavior (ID) wise on coin/ring shaped that are on edge more so with varied sweeps from different angles.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Some folks are not understanding potential of 2 d screen on manticore.
An example.
A Collocated lower conductor could exist with higher conductor.
And one ID is given. An ID quite lower than what typical higher conductor reads.
So based on meter ID user is none the wiser. Are they?
Yet Manticore even though it is giving lower ID, the trace data is elongated. This elongation can tell the user. Be suspicious of ID. And maybe rotate on target and Higher ID could be witnessed.
If the ID presented on a target is lower ID yet trace is tight dot. Odds wise this likely not a collocated higher and lower conductor where ID is skewed lower. Remember I said odds wise.
Now if a person is digging all signals gotten this means nothing to a detectorist doing as such.
System is not bulletproof proof. Yet system can give some good data. For user to use.

Agreed.

If I got a high conductor VDI and tone on the Manticore I would recover based on the 2D screen. If it said chance are it is iron, then no I wouldn't recover it even if the VDI and tone were high. If the 2D was iffy as well, then maybe I would recover it.

 

[jmaclen]

Well Jeff, I'm actually fixated about any type of new detector technology or feature. Especially if it has a possibility of providing a significant advantage over the detectors I've used.

Admittedly though, I have been much more fixated on the 2D screen, since a particular conversation I had with a Minelab rep that runs a Facebook page. Long story short, the rep was telling newbies that not only could the 2D screen distinguish between pull tabs and gold rings, but even more ludicrous, the rep was telling newbies that the 2D screen shows the shape of targets.

I am not going to answer your two questions directly. They have been indirectly answered in my two most recent posts already.

I remember you mentioning that episode with the Minelab rep on Facebook months ago. I would have taken that comment with several grains of salt just like I did with the Manticore and all of the stuff surrounding it in general when it was released. Now that I own one, all I can say is the 2D screen reacts super fast to target IDs that I can't keep up with and displays a ton of information that I have barely just begun to interpret even after well over 100 hours of using the Manticore for wild target hunts.

 

[sube]

Sube,

In Jeff's video on the co-located nut and dime:

1) The Manticore clearly shows a high conductor ID. Would you have immediately dug that signal even if the Manticore didn't have the 2D part of the screen?

2) I'll assume any Manticore user would say "yes" to question #1. As such, since the Legend also clearly shows a high conductor ID, any Legend user would also have immediately dug that signal.

For all Manticore users:

In iron infested sites with countless co-located ferrous and nonferrous targets, does the 2D screen look like a Rorschach test given the 5 second decay rate? I'm not trying to be flippant with that question. I really would like to know, because in all the Manticore videos I've seen, no one shows what the 2D screen looks like in machine gun trashy sites (especially ferrous trash).

1) The Manticore clearly shows a high conductor ID. Would you have immediately dug that signal even if the Manticore didn't have the 2D part of the screen?

NO and even if the 2d screen would plot as a high conductor again NO .
Does the target pinpoint right Is the duration of the signal right I don't care if it sounds crappy choppy fuzzy it has to be coin length . When I turn on said signal is it grunting doubling or does it null if it nulls then is the duration of said null coin length.
Digging less and finding more I find more appealing at 68

As to the screen on the manticore loading up that was also a concern of me not keeping it . The CTX screen clean up much faster in fact to fast but you could build targets in pinpoint TT and clean screen with a button push.
Why they didn't do this on the manticore ? so they leave the screen cluttered and don't give option to build targets . Kind of trying to get two functions in one but neither one is good . sube

.

 

[Diga]

As to the screen on the manticore loading up that was also a concern of me not keeping it . The CTX screen clean up much faster in fact to fast but you could build targets in pinpoint TT and clean screen with a button push.
Why they didn't do this on the manticore ? so they leave the screen cluttered and don't give option to build targets . Kind of trying to get two functions in one but neither one is good . sube

.

Maybe Minelab will have an update to allow adjustment of the decay rate. It would be easy to code an update like that.

 

[Diga]

NO and even if the 2d screen would plot as a high conductor again NO .
Does the target pinpoint right Is the duration of the signal right I don't care if it sounds crappy choppy fuzzy it has to be coin length . When I turn on said signal is it grunting doubling or does it null if it nulls then is the duration of said null coin length.
Digging less and finding more I find more appealing at 68

So, you would rely on tonal nuance and not the 2D screen

 

[sube]

So, you would rely on tonal nuance and not the 2D screen

Each is a tool will your legend tell you there is a coin down the barrel ? sube

 

[sube]

Maybe Minelab will have an update to allow adjustment of the decay rate. It would be easy to code an update like that.

When you buy there next machine past speaks for itself . sube

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Screen trace can be erased by push of button (part of Manticore latest update). Clear ID map soft key option.
See icon lower right corner of my detector in pic.