Need to increase import tariffs, and tax the sale of imported goods. We make and grow, just about everything you can find on this planet. There is really no reason imports should undersell our own products, in our own country. When I was a kid, imported stuff was more expensive, and usually pretty good quality. Now it's cheap to buy foreign made, and little difference in quality over domestic models (really gone down hill).
Minelab E-Trac Fake / Knockoff?
- Thread starter dmulk
- Start date
Need to increase import tariffs, and tax the sale of imported goods. We make and grow, just about everything you can find on this planet. There is really no reason imports should undersell our own products, in our own country. When I was a kid, imported stuff was more expensive, and usually pretty good quality. Now it's cheap to buy foreign made, and little difference in quality over domestic models (really gone down hill).
Joves
Elite Member
Well i tried searching for the site at http://www.resellerratings.com/ but they did not come up. If you see an online store offering something for a great price check it here first. Dealing with photo equipment there are more scammers out there than you can shake a stick at.
Oh I fully agree which is why Im for the Fair Tax with the elimination of the Income Tax. A National Sales Tax or Vat will help to level the playing field by putting a tax on imported goods. What always ticks me off is when some people call it protectionism when we object to Trade Agreements, then they state that the agreements will take down the high tariffs other countries have on our goods, funny it isnt protectionism when others do it. We need to pressure them to finally think of our country first and not worry about everyone else.
Rudy
Admin
Lets veer away from politics shall we?
Sorry..
metaladdict
Elite Member
Yeah! dont buy anything from Alibaba!!
Someone posted here, I think a Minelab dealer, and said that Minelab boxes are never sealed. Why not? When I go to a big box store and I see that the box has been unsealed, or re-sealed, I avoid it. Probably a return or a demo.
I would rather the Minelab box be sealed and not opened from the day it left the factory.
I would rather the Minelab box be sealed and not opened from the day it left the factory.
cmbtvet
Forum Supporter
because it is tested to make sure it works (powers on) before it leaves the store. I bought all 3 of my detectors from Kellyco in person and before they even rang them up, they took it out of the box and made sure they powered on. They did the same thing with my pro pointer.
I'll be the devil's advocate.
What if china is reverse engineering detectors, and figuring out how they are built, then making and selling with the same parts/electronics, but not jacking the price up... I mean, it costs what, $100-200 to build a metal detector from scratch, if you bought all the resistors, pots, etc., then you add $300 for profit and still barely hit $500 for an etrac.
You don't really think it costs minelab $1,000+ in materials do you?
/devilsadvocate off
What if china is reverse engineering detectors, and figuring out how they are built, then making and selling with the same parts/electronics, but not jacking the price up... I mean, it costs what, $100-200 to build a metal detector from scratch, if you bought all the resistors, pots, etc., then you add $300 for profit and still barely hit $500 for an etrac.
You don't really think it costs minelab $1,000+ in materials do you?
/devilsadvocate off
daddydigger
Forum Supporter
Interesting thread. Caveat emptor. That's why I prefer to buy from the sponsors. I know my money is well spent! When making a big purchase, always go for the best value. Frequently, the best value and the lowest price are not the same.
DIRT DOBBER
Forum Supporter
That's not a case of 'devil's advocate' I'm thinking. Factor in the R&D investment that needs recouping (let's call it 5 million dollars in the hole before Minelab sold their first Etrac) and it doesn't seem so unreasonable for them to recoup their investment and make a profit just in time to go in the hole another 5 million R&Ding the next detector you will just have to have.....
....unless of course, you're China (or the guy in his garage building a $300 etrac from mail order parts and stolen intellectual propery)......
/soapbox
5 million dollars... doubtful. Especially since minelab pi's., and the new excal ii are essentially the same detector as the previous models...
PS I dont approve of the chinese knockoffs... but they might work well...
PS I dont approve of the chinese knockoffs... but they might work well...
DIRT DOBBER
Forum Supporter
Probably true. And certainly an appropriate point to argue. Call it a million. Or a half.
I was just adding an important item not factored into the resistors/pots/etc. of 'building a detector'.
DIRT DOBBER
Forum Supporter
AKA, rereading my posts I might have come across as argumentative. That wasn't my intent. Many times I've spent a few thousand on designing and producing a 'whatzit' that cost me $5 to make and I sold it for $15 or something similar and I know how long it takes to make a profit selling something you design and produce yourself considering costs beyond the parts themselves....
When you finally do it's pretty sweet. And deservedly so.
AKA, rereading my posts I might have come across as argumentative. That wasn't my intent. Many times I've spent a few thousand on designing and producing a 'whatzit' that cost me $5 to make and I sold it for $15 or something similar and I know how long it takes to make a profit selling something you design and produce yourself considering costs beyond the parts themselves....
When you finally do it's pretty sweet. And deservedly so.
I expected argument, hence the devil's advocate part.
Either way, what they are doing is wrong, but I've always wondered if the good looking knockoffs go the whole 9 yards and make the same machine, electronic schematics and all. I mean a good electrical engineer could open up a detector, reverse engineer it, and know exactly how to build it... at a fraction of the price.
I can't believe that nothing can be done about these chinese fakes, they do it for everything from spanish cobs, to metal detectors, to electric guitars...
Jressman
Elite Member
I had a Chinese knockoff of a Garrett T4 Turbocharger on my Volkswagen Passat I built up. Price for the real deal Garrett was $1600 price of the knockoff $230. I will tell you that I ran that car hard and have seen that turbo glow red hot and ran it everyday at 13psi boost pressure without so much as an issue for 2 years until I sold the car. Bottom line is there are some really "good" quality knock offs and there are some terrible ones.
I love guitars and have seen some really good Chinese knock offs of Gibson Les Pauls that have excellent fit and finish, neck is straight and people buy them and swap out the pickups and have a great sounding guitar that looks like the real deal. I personally know someone who has one for bar gigs so if it gets stolen or beer spilled on it a $2500 guitar is not ruined or missing.
I love guitars and have seen some really good Chinese knock offs of Gibson Les Pauls that have excellent fit and finish, neck is straight and people buy them and swap out the pickups and have a great sounding guitar that looks like the real deal. I personally know someone who has one for bar gigs so if it gets stolen or beer spilled on it a $2500 guitar is not ruined or missing.
Just for the record the detectors are probably being counterfeited based on a combination of hacking the proms in the detectors to get the software, and probably hacking or bribing an employee to steal proprietary production data from the factories and contractors.
you do realize you bumped a 6 month old forum right? ehe, anyways I was not around when this was originally started, but I can tell you that if your wanting ANYTHING real then go through the LEGIT sources. I am a HUGE hater of Alibaba and DHGate, they basically put one of my companies out of business when I did business with them, I made a HUGE order with them (even after getting samples and doing homework) and months later got in trouble for selling counterfeit products (I was 100% not aware of it, and it wasn't even a "To good to be true deal" I just liked buying in HUGE bulk) and ended up having to pay back customers from months and months of sales of items.
Do it Legit! =]
Do it Legit! =]
Hotrod Tom
Elite Member
Buying knock offs is the same as buying stolen goods. There is no way to justify buying a knock off. You can try to convince yourself otherwise but in the end you know it's wrong. If your still not convinced I will sell you $100.00 bills I can make on a photo copier.I only want $10.00 each. They will look the same but and I will change it enuf to get around all the legal !!!!. It sounds like a great deal to me until you actually want to use them.If there are no profits to be made by developing new products eventually there will be nothing developed for anyone too copy. A lot of costs nowadays is in trying to make products harder if not impossible to copy so buying knockoffs of electronics and software actually make the originals cost more. China and all these other countries can make quality products but there are too many people in this country that stupidly only buy according to price only. Become a smart consumer not a cheap one!
JimboG
Senior Member
This really IS an old thread but interesting. I understand when people feel like they are getting taken on a price of something that appears to be $100 in material costs but rings up at $600 retail. I think what magnifies that feeling is when some subtle differences introduced in various models are sold at far higher prices when we know some of those changes are mere programming or a part addition or two. For the added feature versions customers are getting a product they perceive is worth the extra cost which is probably not related to the actual production costs.
On the other hand I have to face the reality that detector builders need a building with phones and people in them to handle customer service and support after the sale so those anticipated costs have to be built into the profit margins. Some units will be defective and need repair, some calls or emails will come in when customers are trying to figure out how to use a detector. If you buy a knock off and you either need help on how to use it or need repairs, good luck. You are merely getting what you paid for. That said I have to admit some curiosity as to whether these knockoffs work as good as the originals. I also wonder if some of the knockoffs are coming off the very same assembly lines as the originals but just set aside to be sold through another channel.
On the other hand I have to face the reality that detector builders need a building with phones and people in them to handle customer service and support after the sale so those anticipated costs have to be built into the profit margins. Some units will be defective and need repair, some calls or emails will come in when customers are trying to figure out how to use a detector. If you buy a knock off and you either need help on how to use it or need repairs, good luck. You are merely getting what you paid for. That said I have to admit some curiosity as to whether these knockoffs work as good as the originals. I also wonder if some of the knockoffs are coming off the very same assembly lines as the originals but just set aside to be sold through another channel.
