Is there any detector that will pick up coins 2"+ below rusted nails?

[Rattlehead]

Some targets, yes angle of approach is a factor,,,and even here a detector depending on the scenario can bring advantage,,,,but there is also this 3D performance the Deus brings that can sneak out finds in and around iron.



Tell you what.

If we went to a really old site.

And used both Deus and CTX both with 11" coils.

And we used both and marked targets.

And kept doing this and kept score cards.

In the end, I believe the scorecards would reflect,,, more targets were able to be detected with Deus that CTX wouldn't detect. And this would be swinging from all possible angles on targets.



Now, here is something to mention.

Coins are more thick, they are round and usually higher conductive.

So they can't hide as easily on average vs porous, out of round, non disc shaped.



So if we again run score cards pitting CTX 11" coil against Deus with 11" coil, the score cards wouldn't favor Deus as much as it did with the above exercise.



And, yes more junk targets likely dug using Deus.



Another scenario.



#1. If a knew a super duper Deus user had hunted a site with Deus and 11" coil,,pounded and hunted many times with mission of digging all nonferrous.



#2. Or if I knew a super duper CTX runner and had hunted a site with 11" coil,,pounded and hunted many times with mission of digging all nonferrous.



Of the 2 scenarios above,,,if I had to pick the one I had rather hunt?

#2



Another scenario

#1 If I knew a super duper CTX runner and they had hunted a site with 11" coil and their goal was to selectively dig all high conductive targets.



#2 If I knew a super duper Deus runner and they had hunted a site with 11" coil and their goal was to selectively dig all high conductive targets.



Of the 2 scenarios above which one had I rather hunt behind? Looking for higher conductive coins?

#2

I would agree with all of those scenarios for the reasons mentioned at the end of my previous post. Deus will hit small lower conductors better and deeper than the CTX. It can see some targets that the CTX won't. CTX sounds off on deeper higher conductors better than the Deus IMHO, but the Deus can still see them. They just don't sound as good to my ears or ID as well. So if we're being selective, CTX has some advantage here. If we're just digging all non-ferrous, advantage = Deus. Just my opinion based on my experience with these machines.


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[flyguy784]

I too have found nonferrous items even coins using CTX and even Etrac in iron infested sites. One problem though, I went back after pounding and used Deus and found a lot more.

I would take a Deus and hunt behind any old site loaded with iron that a CTX user has pounded,,,even use the Deus with 11" coil. And find things, and if we did some head to head with CTX, Some of the finds locate with Deus, invisible to CTX wearing 11" coil.

I hear ya sharpshooter. There's been a little voice in the back of my mind for awhile now saying "bite that bullet and get a Deus" I met a guy on a hunt running a Deus and he said exactly the same thing. I may have to do it now. Obviously your experience and knowledge of many of these machines is extensive. I for one appreciate your clear, informed posts.

 

[Cherry Picker]

If you hunt mostly deep coins then CTX has a slight advantage, for the better ID. That said, V4 of the Deus may even the playing field I can't say.
If you hunt low conductors such as tot lots the Deus is the one. Not to mention I have yet to swing a detector as enjoyable as the Deus.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Something that keeps me thinking (in the back of my head).
And we may just get to see, thus this thought here, or my question will be answered eventually.

The original Deus coils were round, not elliptical.
How does the being round,,,what did it bring to Deus exactly with 3D unmasking?

If Xp eventually makes some LF coils that are elliptical (with battery location as the HF coils) maybe we will get to see through target comparisons, if what I am thinking here is true or not.

 

[Cherry Picker]

I think the main difference between the round & elliptical coils is the shape of the transmitting signal. This would make the 3D unmasking different for sure.

 

[NCtoad]

I think the main difference between the round & elliptical coils is the shape of the transmitting signal. This would make the 3D unmasking different for sure.

How does that work? Which would be better for unmasking and why?

 

[Cherry Picker]

Well this is a rough layout done quickly here at work, but the idea is sound. Less masking by the elliptical pattern allows more of the conductive signal to be received making the normal iron grunt, I'm thinking AT Pro, a tone mixed with a grunt. Indication further investigation is warranted.

 

[NCtoad]

Isn't the one on the right basically what a DD coil projects? Are we talking concentrics or DD's?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

NC Toad and others here too.

What I am going to say here, my goal not to upset anyone.
But I think it does have merit.

If we take the F75 DST unit with 7x11" dd and a Deus with either the 9" or the 11" LF dd coils (older designed) and compare them.

What we will notice is the Deus kicks the F75 ps butt when it comes to unmasking in iron (3D).
Remember F75's coil is a mere 7" across vs the Deus with either 9" or 11" coil.
And the Deus coils are round in shape.

Now,seeing this myself first hand with the Deus kicking the F75s butt here,,this brings me to this conclusion.

Why hasn't Xp infact made an elliptical shaped LF dd similar to F75 coil ??
What I am saying is, if the Deus kicks butt with the round 9" and 11" coils,,wouldn't Xp be chomping at the bit to make an elliptical coil and be kicking F75s butt even more here with 3D unmasking?

Personally, and remember I have no coil(LF) elliptical to compare against the older design. I think the "round" here is a significant contributing factor with the 3D performance in unmasking.

Having the transmit and receive portion on coil, this distance increased yet have a detector platform engineer to perform, is part of the secret sauce behind Deus.

All just my opinion with some speculation.

 

[woodbutcher]

I agree the deus may unmask a smidge better than the f75, but the f75 has way better Id than the deus.So in theory,while a deus user may be unmasking more non ferrous junk targets,and digging them,,I'm passing over those non ferrous junk targets with the f75 tid.

 

[Longhair]

An Xterra 705 in Prospector Mode with the right coil whips 'em all for depth and unmasking non-ferrous targets. The only bugger is that you lose TID in Prospector Mode.

 

[ohiochris]

That's not totally correct.
There are some detectors which will NOT detect the coins between the nails as tested in that youtube video. Some detectors suffer from iron masking and will lack detecting non-ferrous at the moment ferrous is in sight. And among those there are detectors of respected brands and types.

All VLF detectors suffer from iron masking to some point , ....some more.....some less. Even the best ones pass up more coins than you realize are even there because of it. If you find a coin beneath or around nails is it because your machine is good at doing that ?.....or did you happen to walk up on it at the right angle for the signal to have a little window to peek through ?...... All the coins that will be found there long after you are gone tell the REAL story


I know that some detectors handle iron better than others ,.....but if you consistently do well unmasking and finding coins between the irons ,.....is it necessarily the machine ????.....or the fact that you are persistent and devote a lot of time and patience toward it ??


Even these tests which are supposed to show how well certain detectors unmask or retune are limited to only exactly how its laid out in the video.....how many variables and combinations do you suppose are out there in the real world ?......these videos arent all that much more informative than an air test in reality

 

[ghound]

Good post!

All VLF detectors suffer from iron masking to some point , ....some more.....some less. Even the best ones pass up more coins than you realize are even there because of it. If you find a coin beneath or around nails is it because your machine is good at doing that ?.....or did you happen to walk up on it at the right angle for the signal to have a little window to peek through ?...... All the coins that will be found there long after you are gone tell the REAL story


I know that some detectors handle iron better than others ,.....but if you consistently do well unmasking and finding coins between the irons ,.....is it necessarily the machine ????.....or the fact that you are persistent and devote a lot of time and patience toward it ??


Even these tests which are supposed to show how well certain detectors unmask or retune are limited to only exactly how its laid out in the video.....how many variables and combinations do you suppose are out there in the real world ?......these videos arent all that much more informative than an air test in reality

 

[woodbutcher]

All VLF detectors suffer from iron masking to some point , ....some more.....some less. Even the best ones pass up more coins than you realize are even there because of it. If you find a coin beneath or around nails is it because your machine is good at doing that ?.....or did you happen to walk up on it at the right angle for the signal to have a little window to peek through ?...... All the coins that will be found there long after you are gone tell the REAL story


I know that some detectors handle iron better than others ,.....but if you consistently do well unmasking and finding coins between the irons ,.....is it necessarily the machine ????.....or the fact that you are persistent and devote a lot of time and patience toward it ??


Even these tests which are supposed to show how well certain detectors unmask or retune are limited to only exactly how its laid out in the video.....how many variables and combinations do you suppose are out there in the real world ?......these videos arent all that much more informative than an air test in reality

Very good post!

 

[Digstrashtomuch]

This weekend at an old frontier log cabin up in Wyoming that I started off with the Deus with the new elliptical coil, then the Relic with the small coil, then the CTX 3030 with the 6in for about 2 hours of hunting found several period non ferrous junk. Went back to the car, grabbed the Tejon with the 5.75 concentric and popped a Young Custers youth badge dated 1901 about 2ft off the front door that I know the other three detectors went over about 4in down in a sea of nails. A good Tesoro with that coil in heavy iron trash with that coil is very hard to beat. I agree with DetectingMO, I have been using Tesoros since 1993 and they have always consistently found me more treasure than my other high end machines hunting old homesteads .

 

[Trashfinder]

This weekend at an old frontier log cabin up in Wyoming that I started off with the Deus with the new elliptical coil, then the Relic with the small coil, then the CTX 3030 with the 6in for about 2 hours of hunting found several period non ferrous junk. Went back to the car, grabbed the Tejon with the 5.75 concentric and popped a Young Custers youth badge dated 1901 about 2ft off the front door that I know the other three detectors went over about 4in down in a sea of nails. A good Tesoro with that coil in heavy iron trash with that coil is very hard to beat. I agree with DetectingMO, I have been using Tesoros since 1993 and they have always consistently found me more treasure than my other high end machines hunting old homesteads .

Perfect answer!!! This is why i said yes lot's of detectors will,,,,, (BUT WOULD YOU DIG IT)? If you have no ID and you get a good tone , peeps with non id machines will dig and find treasure!!! I apply that same principle to my hunting with higher end ID machines. Article i posted in all about detectors where i dig a sweet tone 44 silver quarter with Safari that most peeps would walk over because their machine would give a ID of 31 like mine did with the nail right in the hole above the quarter. It does not matter if i am hunting with my CTX i still go by tone tone tone, the ID is only another tool but not the end all of whether to dig! Too many peeps rely only on ID on deciding whether to dig or not dig.

 

[ghound]

Small coils are great to use in a small area, but i still prefer a machine that works well in iron with the 10"- 12" coil range. Most of my permissions are large areas, a 5" coil in a 20 acre field full of a thousand year old iron would be slow going lol i've only a short window of opportunity between harvest, livestock change etc

This weekend at an old frontier log cabin up in Wyoming that I started off with the Deus with the new elliptical coil, then the Relic with the small coil, then the CTX 3030 with the 6in for about 2 hours of hunting found several period non ferrous junk. Went back to the car, grabbed the Tejon with the 5.75 concentric and popped a Young Custers youth badge dated 1901 about 2ft off the front door that I know the other three detectors went over about 4in down in a sea of nails. A good Tesoro with that coil in heavy iron trash with that coil is very hard to beat. I agree with DetectingMO, I have been using Tesoros since 1993 and they have always consistently found me more treasure than my other high end machines hunting old homesteads .

 

[beest]

I hear ya sharpshooter. There's been a little voice in the back of my mind for awhile now saying "bite that bullet and get a Deus" I met a guy on a hunt running a Deus and he said exactly the same thing. I may have to do it now. Obviously your experience and knowledge of many of these machines is extensive. I for one appreciate your clear, informed posts.

I've walked next to many deus hunters (and 3030, and all kinds of minelab), and i never found less.
Sometimes they were even jealous cause i found even more.

Above in the YT you could already see that other detectors withstand the deus tests too.
Not bashing deus, cause a great detector. But not the only God within.

 

[Darktower007]

As mentioned before the deus shines in a carpet of iron or nails like mother machine I've used... which is not slot at pro f70 outlaw and Etrac.

Etrac shuts down in iron even in TTF its just not fast enough.

If I'm going to an old house site I take the deus. If I'm going to open fields the Etrac.
Now I gotta get a water machine and I'll be set


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[Cherry Picker]

It has been my experience that it is pretty much impossible to say X is better than Y when [fill in condition] is encountered. I've gone over small area with a multitude of detector trying to compare and what I find is sometime X finds the goods, something Y finds the goods. A lot has to do with proper setup for said condition for said detector. In other words, X can out perform Y when set better for the condition, or Y can outperform X if set meets the condition better.

That is why I have taken X to a location I have hunted to death with many other detector and it manages to pull out something good. The key is consistency. When you have a detector that can consistently pull goods from well hunted site, you have the makings of a great machine.