I'm back, but still pissed.

[gazar]

So, I have been away from the forum for a while. My brother, who lives in Atlanta Country Club Estates, took me to detect a new spot where he frequently rides his mountain bike. This place is not far from his house and he goes there several times per week. I have never been there but I did look it up on Google Maps and it's a really big wooded area. It's a wooded area with bike trials all throughout. I wasn't planning on doing much detecting. I just wanted to see the area and would plan to come back when I could spend the day there. Anyway, after about an hour, we started to leave and he said there was a better way out which was a short trek through the woods to a dirt road that would lead back to where we were parked. Once we got on the road and were walking back towards the car, we were approached by a Park Ranger. Yep, it turns out this area was NPA land and they do not allow detecting. Google Maps did not list this as NPA land. I know better and would not have gone there if I knew that. Actually, it's not NPA land, it's just managed by the NPA. I did a web search and found it listed as NRA land and the website said it was open to everyone for recreational use. There was no mention of Metal Detecting being forbidden. I guess my brother knew it was NPA/NRA land but he didn't now detecting was not allowed and he has never seen a park Ranger there before. Not only did I get $860.00 in citations for "Possession of a Metal Detector" and "Destroying Plants" which I did not do. I dug one hole in a dirt area and properly filled it back in. He never even saw me digging. I was just walking with the detector turned off. But this jerk took my AT Pro, 2 Pro-Pointers, a Lesche Samson Pro, my edge digger and Garrett digger's bag, rechargeable batteries, gloves and everything else I had with the exception of my phone and my clothes. The odd thing about this is that so far, the U.S. District Court has no record of the citation or my gear being confiscated. It's been nearly 6 weeks since this happened. It looks like I got robbed by a Federal Cop. He did make the comment "This is MY metal detector now" when he confiscated it but I took that as a smart remark rather than his true intentions of keeping my gear. He was also careful to tell me brother to go ahead and walk back to the car, obviously so he wouldn't be a witness to the theft of my gear.

Well, I have an AT Gold but rarely use it and without a pin-pointer, shovel and edge digger I just wasn't interested in doing any detecting. I bought a new AT MAX and Pro-Pointer AT which I got Sunday and the new Lesche Samson Pro is scheduled to arrive today. I am going to go buy an edge digger and some gloves tomorrow morning the head out to do some detecting.

 

[markinmichigan]

I would be pissed too. What can you do?

Mark in Michigan

 

[gazar]

Doesn’t seem like there’s much I can do. When I called the court to see about getting my gear back they said they have no record of confiscating any equipment from me. They advised me to consult an attorney. An attorney will cost me more than the equipment I am trying to get back. It’s a US government sponsored scam. Also, the dude that took my gear didn’t give me a receipt or anything so I have no proof anything was taken from me. There’s no mention of it on the citation. Apparently they have no way to track down any info since the citations were never entered into the system. Seems a bit odd to me but they refuse to say much more than “consult an attorney”.

 

[kaufenanger]

I'd fight it in court

 

[Bioheat1969]

Those citations look odd, there doesn't appear to be a spot for the officer(ranger) signature or badge number.

 

[KOB]

Those citations look odd, there doesn't appear to be a spot for the officer(ranger) signature or badge number.

Exactly. The whole story is suspect. 6 weeks and no official court documents or notification. Asks brother to walk away. No confiscation paperwork receipt. At least take a pic of the officer , you got your phone. How about going back and finding the guy who took your stuff ? Let me guess , he's nowhere to be found. Lol

 

[KinTN]

Uhhhhh, Tom? Didnt you say this never happens?

Sorry for your loss, OP. I'd hunt the sob down and discuss it with him.

 

[CalReg]

Sorry for your loss. This is a nightmare all MD'ers fear. And you're right, it doesn't make any sense to take it to court because the legal fees just wouldn't make it worth it (unless you're a lawyer). Maybe it's best to learn from the lesson, get another detector and move on...

 

[KOB]

Sorry for your loss. This is a nightmare all MD'ers fear. And you're right, it doesn't make any sense to take it to court because the legal fees just wouldn't make it worth it (unless you're a lawyer). Maybe it's best to learn from the lesson, get another detector and move on...

Answer me this : How could you take it to court when the court in question has no record ? What , show them your citation ? It will be hard for them to contain themselves.

 

[Silverhorse65]

If they have no record of the citation, then there's no reason to pay the $860 for a citation there's no record of, correct?

 

[AirmetTango]

The whole story is suspect.

Yep.

Those citations look odd, there doesn't appear to be a spot for the officer(ranger) signature or badge number.

They do look odd, but not for the reasons you point out. The Location Code, Violation Number, Officer Name, and Officer Number would each go in the four boxes immediately under the “United States District Court Violation Notice” heading at the top of the citations pictured by the OP. Those boxes appear to be filled out, with the Violation number grayed out by the OP. What looks odd to me is why are the handwritten “Offense Description: Factual Basis for Charge” boxes and dollar amounts so prominent and easy to read, while the rest of the handwritten sections (all presumably written by the ranger) are so faint? That looks odd to me. The OP’s copy is the “carbon copy” defendant copy, so I’d expect all the sections would be equally faint.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Uhhhhh, Tom? Didnt you say this never happens?....

Gregazar, my thoughts on this experience :

1) I have a sneaking suspicion why this Ranger is "so appraised" and "so watchful" , for this supposed evil. Care to take a guess why ?

2) This is why sometimes I hunt at night these days. So peaceful. So serene.

KinTN : Whenever this subject has come up on threads before, I have ALWAYS said there will be flukes in life. There is NO DOUBT that if you searched the headlines long enough and hard enough, that ... SURE ! You can find an example of someone roughed up and jailed for nothing but a tail-light out or jay-walking. Sure. I have a newspaper clipping of a dude who got a ticket for eating a hamburger while driving (the officer called it "distracted driving").

There will ALWAYS be flukes in life. A personal hunting buddy of mine got a ticket (in a place that, yes, he should/could have known better). And just like the Gregazar here, there was inconsistencies with where he was, the lack of *specific* rule, or whatever. He too thought about fighting it. But when it turned out to be a measly $250 (or whatever), he decided it was faster and easier just to pay it. In fact, he even got a chuckle out of it, in the end. And confided that : If this were all he had to pay, for all the sites and places he'd detected over the years, then : He'd gladly pay it. As a "cost of business".

But the LAST thing we want to do, with stories like this, is make us all think that these-type-things mean we need to grovel wherever we go. Seeking permissions and princely blessings and clarifications . Lest all we do is get awareness (of some supposed evil) cast upon ourselves. And rules written "to address our pressing issues".

If someone is afraid that they might be in an off-limits area, they can look up potential rules for themselves. But just like ANYTHING in life, we are NEVER guaranteed that red-carpets will be rolled out for us everywhere. I mean, heck, look at that "destroying plants" bologna : That could have been written for ANY PLACE WE MD'RS GO (no matter how benign the place is). Aka : "Alter", "deface", etc... So all I can say is, that if the occasional fluke story like this is too upsetting for someone, and they simply HAVE to have "red carpets" and "express blessings" everywhere they go, then : They've chosen the wrong hobby (or stick to sandboxes or whatever).

 

[kac]

Should be able to fight it if there was no signs saying no detecting.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Should be able to fight it if there was no signs saying no detecting.

As a general rule : No, that will not pass muster. There are rules that will not fit on the wooden signs at the entrance to each park, that the public is expected to still avail themselves of. But still though, in this wonderful digital day & age that we live in, any potential rule (if someone is skittish) can be looked up on line. Eg.: Dogs on leash, no fireworks, etc..... Now, if the O.P. could show that there was no "no md'ing" rule, and assuming he wished to fight the "ownership" vs the "management" technical angle, then .... So be it. But : Is it worth it ? It sounds like he's acknowledging that, with a little more homework, he might actually have been in-the-wrong. And thus : Not worth fighting.

 

[hikerdude]

We went for a drive in the woods. Me and my girlfriend. It was a nice day. I spotted an old wood building that was about to fall down. I parked on the side of the road and started to detect. I didn't have permission and started to get nervous and walked back to my car. As I am putting my detector in the trunk a ranger drove by. He was driving in the opposite direction I was headed. I jumped in my car and took off. About a mile down the road here he came. He turned on his lights and I pulled over. He walked up to my window and said it's illegal to have a metal detector in a National Park. I didn't know I was in a National Park. I didn't see any signs and I looked closely when I drove on. Yep, he wrote a ticket after looking at my metal detector and the finds pouch, but there was nothing in my finds pouch. He was polite, so was I, and he said the ticket was for $65.00. I paid the ticket when I got home (mail) and figured I was lucky he didn't keep my detector. This is in California, and i was maybe 40 - 50 miles north of San Francisco.

 

[Xxray]

Sorry to hear that, I would track down that glorified renta-cop [with a witness or 2] and inquire about the return of my property, or is it subject to outright seizure ?

I was detecting the grounds of this old insane asylum [Eloise, anyone in SE MI knows of it]. At its peak it was insanely extensive [oops, no pun intended], literally a city unto itself complete with a fire station, streets, even a post office. Built in the early 1800's, I think it was the largest loony bin in the country and was operational until the early 1980's. I remember when I was a kid of driving age, we'd take our girlfriends there at night to get freaked out driving around the now [mostly] abandoned and derelict complex - Of course it is reputed to be heavily haunted, there are only few original structures left [There is actually a large graveyard somewhere in the vicinity that is almost impossible to get to, I saw one explorer on youtube that made it. Problem is is that they just used numbered markers to id those buried there, and the master list matching numbers to names has never been found, so they can't do anything with that parcel of ground which could be prime property otherwise] Alot of the former poperty has been gobbled up by retail businesses, and there is a gold course on another large section.

Also rife with underground tunnels, though most of the entrances have been long sealed off. Anyways what has all this got to do with detecting ? One of the remaining buildings is the old fire station, I was walking around and didn't plan on detecting but I had it in my truck and started swinging, until I noticed a historical marker so I hightailed it back to my truck, never would have thought a long neglected and even reviled loony bin would have been a historical site but it is.
There are now plans to renovate the remaining buildings into hotels of all things, and Alice Cooper invested in a portion of it as a haunted Halloween attraction - Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread, I ramble sometimes.

 

[DanMcG]

Is the rangers name on the citations? I'd make an effort to find out more about him and go from there. A bad cop is not good thing, and he should be flushed out...somehow.

 

[gazar]

I'd fight it in court

I have no court date. I have received traffic tickets before and they always put a court date on the ticket. They also have you sign the ticket. As you can see in the photo, I never signed the ticket and was never asked to. He just handed me the yellow copies and left with my gear. The court date section was not filled out on these tickets. Without a court date, I assume I woul have to hire an attorney to file something or whateveer to get into court. That would cost me more than the price of a new detector.

 

[gazar]

Exactly. The whole story is suspect. 6 weeks and no official court documents or notification. Asks brother to walk away. No confiscation paperwork receipt. At least take a pic of the officer , you got your phone. How about going back and finding the guy who took your stuff ? Let me guess , he's nowhere to be found. Lol

He held my phone until the end. He gave me the phone back just seconds before driving away. Beside that, in the stress of the situation, all I was thinking about was getting out of there. I didn't think about the "should have's" until after it was over and I was on my way home. But I should have asked for his information and a reciept for the gear he took. I was just too stressed to think clearly and I am sure he knew that and took advantage of my mental disorientation and lack of experience in such matters.

 

[gazar]

Uhhhhh, Tom? Didnt you say this never happens?

Sorry for your loss, OP. I'd hunt the sob down and discuss it with him.

I would like to hunt him down and comfront him but if he's a "bad cop" or worse, if he's not even a cop and is impersonating a cop there's no telling what he might do or accuse me of. Anyway, if I am even able to find this cat, I seriously doubt he will just appologze and give my me gear back. I suspect that by now he has either sold the gear or otherwise disposed of it. Porbably even went metal detecting with it. Who knows what an evil mind might do.