Go Ahead But Don't Dig Holes -

[Tom_in_CA]

Oh, and always call 811 before you dig

Believe it or not, I read the true story of one hunter (who felt it was his duty to grovel at city halls), who ACTUALLY GOT THIS ANSWER ! His inquiry at the front desk was met with confusion at first. Ie.: they thought he was talking about airport security metal detectors, and .... had no idea what he was talking about. Thus he got shunted desk to desk, till finally he arrived at someone who thought "Long and Hard" about his "pressing question". And handed him a pamphlet, from the local utility company, that had a picture of a back-hoe on the front, and a caption that said : "Call 811 before you dig"


When the md'r saw that it was talking about heavy equipment and trenching and so forth, he told the lady : "You don't understand. This is talking about people who are going to be digging 6 ft. deep. I'm only going to be digging 6 INCHES deep " And he handed the pamphlet back to the desk lady.


She leafed through it, glanced over it, and handed it back to the man saying the following : "But sir, it doesn't say HOW deep. It just says any digging. So we're still going to have to tell you no". The poor guy left city hall more confused than when he arrived. THE CLASSIC CASE OF NO ONE CARED TILL YOU ASKED !

 

[Cherry Picker]

I was in law for years. My job was going after agents who overstepped. That included clerks, judges, cops and so on. From that, my tolerance for agents who violate law is somewhere around zero.

The higher courts actually declared public agents are held to a higher standard of law than are we, the common man.

This is not unreasonable. Agents are given the law in hard copy, and in searchable form for their computers. Too, they can seek FREE legal advice from city attorneys, prosecutors, or, if they are elected, attorneys general. Then there is that they have access to law libraries we do not.

Our laws can be boiled down to simple terms:

We The People may do any act not LAWFULLY proscribed. Conversely, public agents may only do those acts prescribed.

In this instance, inquiring if there were specific laws prohibiting metal detecting might have been the better approach. Perhaps better yet would have been spending a twenty minutes on the computer searching city/count codes for all things metal detecting.

Where were you when I needed you? LOL. I have been screwed over by corrupt cops, lawyers, and judges I have lost all faith in our legal system.

 

[maxxkatt]

Any time you disturb a local official official about MD permission you are putting this thought in his head: "Hmm, he is asking permission to be on city/county/state property so their must be something wrong with metal detecting on OUR property". Then the light bulb really goes off in his head: "If I propose/write a rule against metal detecting on OUR property" it will look good on my year end of review of accomplishments (which have been kinda slim the past few years) and get a long sought recognition and maybe a raise". "Or maybe even a certificate along with that raise."
Don't kid yourself, this IS how many of these local officials behind a desk think. The county/city/state workers out in the field never say anything to me when I encounter them when metal detecting other "hey guy, find anything good?" and they often ask questions about metal detecting and my detector. But the inside desk jockeys are the one you NEVER want to talk to about permissions. Listen to Tom, he knows what he is talking about.

 

[ecoast]

I never ask the city for permission upfront to hunt tax paid public ground. That is just asking for a "no." City clerks are lame but they don't get paid much.

^^^THIS

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....... he knows what he is talking about.

I saw the entire thing evolve . Since I started this hobby as a kid in the mid 1970s. Back then, it never even DAWNED on anyone that there was a problem IN THE FIRST PLACE. Oh sure, we had the "presence of mind" not to bother *obvious historic sensitive monuments*. We had the "presence of mind" not to be in the middle of deep holes in nice manicured turf when a someone was staring. Sure.

But beyond that, no one ever ran around saying "Can I detect this or that beach" or "this or that park", etc... It was a question that simply never occurred to us . But then in the mid 1980s, our club became members of the FMDAC. A lobbying group, with good and sincere and noble intentions. To lobby on behalf of md'ing legal interests. A noble concern, eh ?


And we began to get their monthly newsletters, regaling the reader with the latest legal-front issues. From far away places in the USA that had nothing at all to do with us, of course. Stories of "such & such state or city is contemplating a no md'ing rule" And exhorting md'rs to "send letters to your congressman", etc... Every issue was packed full of stories of "scrams" and "bootings". As if to insinuate : "Coming to a city near you !" Sincere intentions to "garner solidarity".


BUT HERE'S THE INTERESTING THING THAT HAPPENED : You could look around the room, at the 25-or-so attendees at each meeting, and see people's "eyes as big as silver dollars". Eg.: Worry and concern. I mean, shucks, you don't want to get "roughed up" like the guy in the story, DO YOU ? You don't want to get a ticket, like the guy in the story, DO YOU ?


So guess what the knee-jerk reaction began to be ? You guessed it : Waltz in to city hall and state offices everywhere you go, asking "Can I ?" type questions (This was before the internet so you couldn't look up on-line). And they begin to get "no's" (from places that, quite frankly, had NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM BEFORE) ! So that "no" makes it's way back to the club at the next meeting (and "no's" make their way back to FMDAC) as the NEXT LEGAL BATTLE that we must clarify and fight, eh ? Which only leads to MORE skittish behavior from people who now hear of THOSE 'nos". Hence leading to EVEN MORE GROVELLING.


It was a vicious circle of self-fulfilling loop of fulfillment. So as I sat there looking at the "before and after", I began to wonder if the ONLY REASON FOR A RULE (or a policy or a "no", etc...) IN THE FIRST PLACE was : MD'rs waltzing in asking "can I ?" questions . So I began to study this suspicion. Lo & behold yes : It is indeed the birth of most all of them.


And now, 35+ yrs. later, it's harder to spot. Ie.: If you ever try to look NOW at origins, it will always allude to issues like "holes" or "archie concerns" and so forth. IT WILL NEVER SAY : "Because someone asked Can I " So I can see how, today, someone can deny that it has anything to do with "swatting hornet's nests". But if you were there from the beginning, to see the before-&-after, then you see how the psychology worked.

 

[sube]

I was detecting in Iowa at a school and a 20 year old cop showed up says to me can I see your drivers licence . Said sure but it's in the van so We walk to the van and on the way says yea we real don't want people looking here and I said why he says if I find something good then all your buddy's will be here .
I said what do you consider good he says a gold ring I said I live 300 miles from here and all my buddy's are going to come down here because of one ring .
Then he says it would be okay if I looked but did not dig .
So me and my friend decided to do curb strips I watch as my friend started to hunt the lady 3 houses away came with her phone and took pictures of my licence plates then another lady came I said to my friend lets leave.
So we get downtown a block away and the cop that I talked to before waves me over says I was detecting in someones yard I said I never got out of my van .My friend comes over and tells the cop he was in the curb strip and not in any body's yard so we just went to the next town lol . sube

 

[DJW]

If you all spent as much time detecting as you do typing and worrying your finds rate would go way up.

 

[BeardedRelicHunter]

I was detecting in Iowa at a school and a 20 year old cop showed up says to me can I see your drivers licence . Said sure but it's in the van so We walk to the van and on the way says yea we real don't want people looking here and I said why he says if I find something good then all your buddy's will be here .
I said what do you consider good he says a gold ring I said I live 300 miles from here and all my buddy's are going to come down here because of one ring .
Then he says it would be okay if I looked but did not dig .
So me and my friend decided to do curb strips I watch as my friend started to hunt the lady 3 houses away came with her phone and took pictures of my licence plates then another lady came I said to my friend lets leave.
So we get downtown a block away and the cop that I talked to before waves me over says I was detecting in someones yard I said I never got out of my van .My friend comes over and tells the cop he was in the curb strip and not in any body's yard so we just went to the next town lol . sube

cops think curb strips are part of the home property behind now a days because cities, towns stop maintaining them ... I had a house with no grass yard but township threatened me with a fine for front curb strip grass being to high i said then you cut it its yours anyway. when I was young every township ,town,city had maintenance guys who mowed all that stuff but when old guys retired they saved money not replacing them. Things like this make me realize how change is rarely good thing and how tyrannical this country really is .