Etrac discontinued

[Cherry Picker]

Here is a link to the Minelab Knowledge Base article that includes the statement using the word obsolete in reference to single frequency detectors.

https://www.detectorprospector.com/...inelab-multi-iq-technology-details-explained/

I don't know of any other source for that statement. It has been misconstrued, exaggerated and maligned since it was released to the public to the point where even many Etrac and CTX users took offense for no reason. It wasn't about them.

For me anyway, it's true. I used to own several single frequency detectors. Now I just own one and it is an XP ORX. The Equinox, Legend and Deus 2 are SMF and single frequency detectors so I just don't need single frequency only detectors anymore.

The only reason I have an ORX is because XP hasn't fixed Deus 2's Goldfield gold prospecting program yet so it can be as good as the ORX for small gold nugget prospecting. If they fix it with an update in the future, the ORX will get sold.

Why is it that almost every person I've seen that uses an SMF detector end up saying they use a single frequency almost exclusively? I would think for beach hunters dealing with salt water and or bad mineralization, MF would be preferred, but it has been proven that a single frequency will outperform multiple frequencies.

 

[Diga]

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[Martin_V3i]

Why is it that almost every person I've seen that uses an SMF detector end up saying they use a single frequency almost exclusively? I would think for beach hunters dealing with salt water and or bad mineralization, MF would be preferred, but it has been proven that a single frequency will outperform multiple frequencies.

I never use single frequency and I have ran two Equinox units thru the entire warranties. My testing of the 4khz frequency gave lousy TID numbers. I haven't read that most users use single frequency modes.

 

[Cherry Picker]

I never use single frequency and I have ran two Equinox units thru the entire warranties. My testing of the 4khz frequency gave lousy TID numbers. I haven't read that most users use single frequency modes.

Almost every video, especially with the NOX 800, they say they use a single frequency.

Carl-NC "A particular frequency will always be more effective alone rather than mixed with other frequencies. So if you want the deepest silver, run 5kHz only. If you want the smallest gold, run 40kHz only."

I have a video on Youtube showing how a single 15 kHz hits a gold necklace that MF doesn't see at all.

I used single frequencies on both my Equinox 800s because my testing proved the above.

 

[jmaclen]

Why is it that almost every person I've seen that uses an SMF detector end up saying they use a single frequency almost exclusively? I would think for beach hunters dealing with salt water and or bad mineralization, MF would be preferred, but it has been proven that a single frequency will outperform multiple frequencies.

You definitely have not seen me do that (use a single frequency) or even recommend it instead of using the Multi setting. The only time I would have to use a single frequency instead of Multi is when EMI is overwhelming, like directly under huge power lines or near an electric fence. Otherwise, single frequency absolutely WILL NOT out perform multi frequency in the ground conditions where I detect. Multi is deeper and it gives accurate target IDs down to almost the edge of detection whether I am using the Equinox, Legend or Deus 2. Air tests and on top of the ground tests may show that a single frequency does better......that is not the case for established in the ground or wild targets where I detect.

My former CTX 3030, Whites V3i, Whites DFX and Garrett's ACE Apex could not do either of those things very well where I detect on most targets. CTX was good if the target was big enough and a high conductor otherwise.........The other three might as well have been used in single frequency since there was no difference in performance if the target was deeper than 4".

I have no experience with the Etrac other than what I read about on these forums. In fact, I have never even seen one in person. No one uses the Etrac where I detect or in the club I have been a member of for who knows how long. Conversely over half of the 100+ member club owns and uses either an Equinox, Legend or Deus 2 not because these people blindly wanted the latest, supposedly greatest tech. It's because they work better than any other VLF detectors in the ground conditions here.

 

[Diga]

I have a video on Youtube showing how a single 15 kHz hits a gold necklace that MF doesn't see at all.

Is that because you were using a low weighted MF? The Nox and Legend have a high weighted MF mode that would hit the necklace. Albeit, it could ID just above iron, or in the iron range.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Is that because you were using a low weighted MF? I'm sure the Nox has a high weighted MF mode that would hit the necklace. Albeit, it could ID just above iron, or in the iron range.

No, I was using a detector with PRIMARY FREQUENCIES of 3 kHz & 15 kHz.

 

[jmaclen]

No, I was using a detector with PRIMARY FREQUENCIES of 3 kHz & 15 kHz.

At least where I detect, the Whites DFX did better in single frequency than in Multi as far as sensitivity, depth and especially target ID accuracy. If the target was 4" deep or less, Multi was fine.....same situation with the V3i and the Garrett APEX.

That is absolutely not the case with the Equinox, Legend or Deus 2 where I detect. All three will easily hit coin sized targets down to 10" with good IDs and tones using their multi settings. Using single frequency on those detectors, depth is cut in half and target IDs are not accurate deeper than 3 or 4".

The DFX had an unfortunate characteristic that made it very hard to hit smaller low conductors near the ferrous/non-ferrous tone break. Its salt compensation could not be turned OFF and was always on when using it in its multi settings.

 

[metaladdict]

I always run my Nox multi freak!

 

[Diga]

No, I was using a detector with PRIMARY FREQUENCIES of 3 kHz & 15 kHz.

Ok, but it's understandable that the SMF of 3 khz and 15 khz won't hit the necklace, because the 3 khz aspect of it is way too low for that kind of target. An MF weighted for small gold, like the Legend's M2, or the Nox's Park 2, would hit the necklace.

 

[jmaclen]

Ok, but it's understandable that the SMF of 3 khz and 15 khz won't hit the necklace, because the 3 khz aspect of it is way too low for that kind of target. An MF weighted for small gold, like the Legend's M2, or the Nox's Park 2, would hit the necklace.

DFX Salt mode was always ON using its Multi settings which is bad news for small low conductors that hit near the ferrous/low conductor non ferrous/Salt area. Also......The DFX always transmits a combined dual frequency waveform. When single frequency mode is chosen, the machine still transmits the same waveform optimized for dual frequency use, but simply ignores half the return signal to process either the 3 kHz portion or the 15 kHz portion. The transmit waveform is not optimized for single frequency and so some punch is lost compared to a dedicated single frequency machine like the MXT.(Paraphrased from a Steve Herschbach article)

So, if I was picking a VLF detector to prove that single is as good or better than multi on the same detector......DFX is the perfect choice depending on the target's size and conductivity.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Ok, but it's understandable that the SMF of 3 khz and 15 khz won't hit the necklace, because the 3 khz aspect of it is way too low for that kind of target. An MF weighted for small gold, like the Legend's M2, or the Nox's Park 2, would hit the necklace.

I have no doubt they would hit it, but I do believe that a single frequency will hit it better. I really tested this on my Deus HF coil at 80 kHz. It could hit the smallest open gold I had. Hollow earrings, small gold necklaces, and odd shaped small gold pendants. The lower the frequency I went, the worse it got. Low conductors were not as bad. Around 10 kHz-15 kHz seemed the best of both worlds.

My experience has been that MF is a good choice if you're not targeting a particular target, say gold, but for over-all good response. As I said, my eyes were opened by testing my tough gold targets found with a single frequency. And that included testing with the NOX 800.

 

[Diga]

DFX Salt mode was always ON using its Multi settings which is bad news for small low conductors that hit near the ferrous/low conductor non ferrous/Salt area. Also......The DFX always transmits a combined dual frequency waveform. When single frequency mode is chosen, the machine still transmits the same waveform optimized for dual frequency use, but simply ignores half the return signal to process either the 3 kHz portion or the 15 kHz portion. The transmit waveform is not optimized for single frequency and so some punch is lost compared to a dedicated single frequency machine like the MXT.

So, if I was picking a VLF detector to prove that single is as good or better than multi on the same detector......DFX is the perfect choice depending on the target's size and conductivity.

That was interesting. Thanks.

So bad news for small low conductors due to salt mode, as well as no true single frequency mode.

Detector,

With a correctly chosen MF, I get better target ID's at depth than with a single frequency...and that's true for both low and high conductors. However, that benefit can easily be extinguished due to EMI and the associated gain reduction that's necessary.

 

[Diga]

My experience has been that MF is a good choice if you're not targeting a particular target, say gold, but for over-all good response. As I said, my eyes were opened by testing my tough gold targets found with a single frequency. And that included testing with the NOX 800.

You would think that using a SF that produced the most powerful eddy currents for a particular metal, would be the ideal choice. So, something like a SF of 5 for silver coins, and a SF of 40 for gold.

Although, I haven't found that to be true. In my tests on deep silver, a very low weighted MF ID's the silver coin better than the SF of 5. On deep or small gold, a very high weighted SMF ID's the gold better than the SF of 40. It also depends on how much weight leaning the manufacturer uses. For example, Park1 on the Nox, is weighted lower than Park M1 on the Legend, but the Legend's MW SMF mode, is weighted lower than the Nox's Park1 mode.

...but again SMF and EMI though

 

[Rattlehead]

Only time I use single frequency is if I'm dealing with really bad EMI. That's rarely a problem at my locations.

 

[jmaclen]

I have no doubt they would hit it, but I do believe that a single frequency will hit it better. I really tested this on my Deus HF coil at 80 kHz. It could hit the smallest open gold I had. Hollow earrings, small gold necklaces, and odd shaped small gold pendants. The lower the frequency I went, the worse it got. Low conductors were not as bad. Around 10 kHz-15 kHz seemed the best of both worlds.

My experience has been that MF is a good choice if you're not targeting a particular target, say gold, but for over-all good response. As I said, my eyes were opened by testing my tough gold targets found with a single frequency. And that included testing with the NOX 800.

Here is a link to a crappy video (less than 4 minutes) that I did a few years ago that shows how high iron mineralization is very bad for single frequency detectors whether they are just single frequency like the AT Pro in the video, selectable single frequency like the Deus 1 in the video or the Equinox using its multi setting vs single frequency. Test targets are a surface US nickel, a 4" deep US nickel placed in a removable in the ground sleeve, a well established 6" deep US nickel, a surface US quarter and a well established 6" deep US quarter.

The only detectors that I have ever used that could ID all three nickels are the Equinox, Vanquish, Deus 2 and Legend. Switching the Equinox, Legend and Deus 2 to single frequencies....they fail. My CTX could not pass this nickel test. Neither could any other VLF detector (over 30 tested) including the Whites V3i, DFX, Fisher F75.......and many other great detectors.

Sorry about the glare. Deus was set on Deus Fast 3 tones with the tone break at 80. AT Pro was Pro Zero with 3 tones. Equinox was Park 1 with 5 tones. Equinox is using the 6" coil and has sensitivity set at 15 of 25 due to EMI.

If I changed the target to a piece of can slaw or a pull tab.....same result.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xba2jTFT1OQ

 

[Cherry Picker]

That was interesting. Thanks.

So bad news for small low conductors due to salt mode, as well as no true single frequency mode.

Detector,

With a correctly chosen MF, I get better target ID's at depth than with a single frequency...and that's true for both low and high conductors. However, that benefit can easily be extinguished due to EMI and the associated gain reduction that's necessary.

I will agree that MF probably does a better job at target ID simply because having more than one primary frequency to derive an ID from. That said, If I'm hunting the local school or old fort site, then yes I'd use MF, but in our city park where anything 8" or less is clad, target ID has only been reliable on the E-Trac/FBS.

 

[Diga]

I will agree that MF probably does a better job at target ID simply because having more than one primary frequency to derive an ID from.

Right, but if the chosen MF is not weighted enough for either silver or gold, then MF will ID worse than a correctly chosen SF.

None of that applies to highly mineralized ground though.

 

[Spooky2]

The replacement for the E-trac needs to be 2-3 pounds,larger screen, be able to chose any or all frequencies from 1.5 to 99 kHz,either separately or simultaneously and waterproof.Am I asking too much?

 

[Cherry Picker]

The replacement for the E-trac needs to be 2-3 pounds,larger screen, be able to chose any or all frequencies from 1.5 to 99 kHz,either separately or simultaneously and waterproof.Am I asking too much?

Exactly Spooky.

The depth of the FBS, which I believe the NOX 800/Manticore can match but not the same reliable target ID at depth, would be a starter. While these new detectors I'm sure can see and make noise at the same depth, the VDI lacks. Maybe the Manticores 2D display can work, but it needs to get in the hands of true testers before we find out. What I'd like to see, which I doubt we will, is how at 8"+ a rusted piece of iron can give a false conductive signal and have the iron bias remove it. Now I know this can be faked, but I mean not just use the iron bias to mask the iron, but if it is a true conductive target, have it continue to ring true. The E-Trac does this with the ferrous VDI, in most cases, but is still not 100%. If I'm going to take the time & effort to recover a target at 10", and do it right, I want a 90% chance it is a good target and not a nail.

Why do displays always have a heard of info not needed while hunting? It takes up display space to show you you're running in a particular mode or sensitivity and stuff that have little value while hunting. Make that VDI more visual for us older guys, please. If I want to check something it takes all of a second to press a settings button for all that other !!!!.

I'd love to be able to maximize the frequency for best performance for high conductors (1.5 kHz) to low conductors (80 kHz), and a good mid like 10-12 kHz. I loved the 9x5 HF on my Deus at 80 kHz for tot lots.