Does anyone else see a trend going on with detector manufacturers?

[AccurateCalls]

AH! Yes, you guys have coins that range from low conductor to high. I can see why SMF would be a good choice. Here in the States everything we hunt for, coin wise, is going to be high conductors other than nickels.

Still, I don't think most detectorists who buy a SMF detector would know about the specific situations to switch to single frequency, since most people who purchase a SMF detector aren't grizzled veterans of the hobby.

I tend to use single frequency about 10-15% of the time and SMF the remaining portion. We have silver Russian wire money, which is like ~.5cm in diameter (or ~.2 inches)[ https://www.metaldetectingworld.com/wire_money_coins/coins_on_cent.jpg ], thin, which rings up like a very low conducting, tiny spec of aluminum. And we have silver coins that are HUGE, which have diameters roughly 2-3 times that of a US quarter. We have silver klippes, which are square, large and thick chunks of silver. We also have Swedish plate money which are gigantic, large plates of copper the size of dinner plates.

At least for coins here, there is no optimal single frequency.

 

[elrodcod]

Good point Terry. What was it ? Maybe a month ago they said the 705 was supposed to be for the Asian market but now i'm seeing a you tuber here in the U.S. and one in the UK. doing review vids on them. Let the battles begin, in the end the consumer wins. You been at it a long time, do you see a need or for another SF machine ?, there are enough out there already. The Simplex and 705 at that price leaves Garrett holding their hat when it comes to the AT Pro or Max. And on the lower end you also have the Vanquish series. The downside is with all these capable, affordable detectors on the market soon there will be more detectorists than places to hunt. I may still pick up a Manticore but as I go back and forth the 900 will probably be the last one I buy unless there is truly a new groundbreaking detector released. IMO that has not happened since Multi-IQ was introduced. Will be fun to watch, pass the popcorn. Mark

The 705 is dead Jim, it's no longer being made.

 

[elrodcod]

The only trend that I see is that the competition between Minelab and Nokta is getting spicy. The current battleground is the market for entry level machines. Minelab seems to be winning that one with the release of the XTerra Pro. Nokta's response with the announcement of the New Generation Simplex series fell a little short. The three machines shown at the trade show were nonworking display models. So far no actual specs from Nokta while Minelab has the XTerra Pro owner's guide available for download on their website.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Tell me more about the Manticore lower priced cookie cutter model.

When I say cookie cutter models I'm mainly speaking of the Equinox style so many are now sporting. Heck, I see a Simplex, Legend, Equinox, or Manticore in a video and I don't know which it is until I can see the control pad. The only unique design is the Deus 2.

 

[Cherry Picker]

The only trend that I see is that the competition between Minelab and Nokta is getting spicy. The current battleground is the market for entry level machines. Minelab seems to be winning that one with the release of the XTerra Pro. Nokta's response with the announcement of the New Generation Simplex series fell a little short. The three machines shown at the trade show were nonworking display models. So far no actual specs from Nokta while Minelab has the XTerra Pro owner's guide available for download on their website.

I agree. I think people know where the market is on the Manticore, Legend and D2, the battle right now is for low & mid range. I tought the NOX 700 & 900 had that pretty well wrapped up but now the X-Terra is looking like a real contender. I still think Simplex has the low end I don't see the BT or Ultra competing with the 700/900 or X-Terra.

 

[elrodcod]

I agree. I think people know where the market is on the Manticore, Legend and D2, the battle right now is for low & mid range. I tought the NOX 700 & 900 had that pretty well wrapped up but now the X-Terra is looking like a real contender.

After looking over the XTerra Pro manual I've come to the conclusion that it's an Equinox Lite. If you know your way around the Equinox menu you'll feel right at home with the XTerra Pro.

 

[Dave_e]

When I say cookie cutter models I'm mainly speaking of the Equinox style so many are now sporting.

That Equinox "style" was stolen by Minelab from Deteknix, and Deteknix swiped their original software from First Texas, and then promptly changed their name to Quest.

 

[markinswpa]

The 705 is dead Jim, it's no longer being made.

You're right, I was referring to the Xterra Pro

 

[Beachhunt1]

The TREND I see>>>>>More money leaving my wallet for detectors I do not need!!!!!!!!

 

[Cherry Picker]

Others started the "NOX" look, but there is little doubt that Minelab Equinox made it famous.

It seems odd that the Deus is the undisputed ergonomics king so why is that design not being copied? Patents maybe?

 

[AccurateCalls]

Others started the "NOX" look, but there is little doubt that Minelab Equinox made it famous.

It seems odd that the Deus is the undisputed ergonomics king so why is that design not being copied? Patents maybe?

It might just be a case of how some companies take the strategy of copying what is popular and others take the strategy of trying to stand out and do their own thing.

I do like the XP Deus ergonomics, but I hate how much the detector wants to roll down hills, and I rather dislike how far rear mounted the coil is. I haven't swung the Manticore enough to say for sure, but I believe I'd actually have a preference for the Manticore shaft as of the moment (though setting up the Manticore shaft and getting everything aligned straight is a pain). At least my Deus II lower shaft is rather bendy and wobbly which I hate when swinging in thick vegetation and stubble, and while submerged. I would give the edge still to the Deus II in pure ergonomics, but only if you don't have the control pod mounted, but I always keep it mounted because I like to change settings all the time.

 

[UT_Dave]

...I believe I'd actually have a preference for the Manticore shaft as of the moment (though setting up the Manticore shaft and getting everything aligned straight is a pain).

Agree. The Manticore shaft is kind of a pain to deploy. A single advantage to the non keyed shaft I have found, by accident, is that I actually prefer to have the pod clocked slightly to the left (I'm right handed). Probably just me, but I have found it a bit more comfortable to swing that way, it's a more natural wrist position, for me.

- Dave

 

[AccurateCalls]

Agree. The Manticore shaft is kind of a pain to deploy. A single advantage to the non keyed shaft I have found, by accident, is that I actually prefer to have the pod clocked slightly to the left (I'm right handed). Probably just me, but I have found it a bit more comfortable to swing that way, it's a more natural wrist position, for me.

- Dave

Interesting, I might play around with that and see what a bit of rotation feels like. I do like that it can rotate when it collapses so it fits into a backpack better.

 

[Rattlehead]

I do like the XP Deus ergonomics, but I hate how much the detector wants to roll down hills, and I rather dislike how far rear mounted the coil is.

Those are my biggest complaints as well. I've sorted both issues with 3D printed parts, but it really sucks having to add all that plastic crap to fix obvious issues on an otherwise nice detector.

I really wish XP would do something different with the charging connections as well. That bird's nest 3 in 1 cable is always a mess, and both the connections for the coil and remote are a PITA to connect. A magnetic connection like the one found on the Nox/Manticore would be a great solution for both the coil and remote.

 

[AccurateCalls]

Those are my biggest complaints as well. I've sorted both issues with 3D printed parts, but it really sucks having to add all that plastic crap to fix obvious issues on an otherwise nice detector.

I really wish XP would do something different with the charging connections as well. That bird's nest 3 in 1 cable is always a mess, and both the connections for the coil and remote are a PITA to connect. A magnetic connection like the one found on the Nox/Manticore would be a great solution for both the coil and remote.

Yeah modularity is cool until you have to charge everything individually. It's also sort of a pain when you have multiple coils but can't charge them all at the same time.

I do like how easy it is to swap coils, but not sure that ease outweighs all the negatives that comes with a wireless coil / control pod paradigm (charging multiple devices, having to hook up an antennae under water, etc.).

 

[jmaclen]

My thought is the whole multi-frequency thing didn't go off as planned and that really doesn't leave much for their top of the line to make it worth the price. Buffing up their low & mid-priced detectors in expectation of a very poor economy on the way would be my guess. Good for us buyers for sure. We're getting so much more now for our money, but those who were quick to buy may not be so thrilled.

and Detector said:

"What I was trying to say is almost all the new detectors now give you the option to pick a single frequency and that is why the MF detectors are so hot right now. Just a few years ago to get different frequencies you had to buy another coil."

Wow.
The view from my foxhole is absolutely and totally different. I was just trying to count on my fingers how many people I personally know and hunt with regularly that have a Manticore, Equinox model, Legend or Deus 2.....I stopped counting at 40. I had no trouble counting on my fingers how many of those 40+ recently made simultaneous multi frequency detector owners use a selectable single frequency most often as opposed to the Multi settings. It was easy because that number of people is ZERO.

Sure, if EMI is a problem, I may use a single frequency temporarily. However, out here where iron mineralization is moderate or worse, using a single frequency will severely mess with depth and with any form of target ID or audio tone accuracy on coin sized targets deeper than 3". These new SMF tech detectors can go deeper and give very accurate target IDs and tones 3 times deeper than even using their own onboard single frequency settings.

So, not everyone needs SMF. A good quality single frequency detector will work fine. A VLF with onboard selectable single frequencies is an even better option.

I can't speak for these manufacturers. However, there is no better way to be introduced to the modern SMF tech and lighter weight form factors and wireless features than for Minelab and Nokta to offer full featured single or selectable single frequency detectors at unbelievable prices to people who don't need SMF or to newer detector users that may graduate to a Manticore, Equinox, Legend or Deus 2 in the future.

For me, that is why these models from Nokta and Minelab are being introduced. It is not because of a failure in SMF technology.

 

[Cherry Picker]

and Detector said:

"What I was trying to say is almost all the new detectors now give you the option to pick a single frequency and that is why the MF detectors are so hot right now. Just a few years ago to get different frequencies you had to buy another coil."

Wow.
The view from my foxhole is absolutely and totally different. I was just trying to count on my fingers how many people I personally know and hunt with regularly that have a Manticore, Equinox model, Legend or Deus 2.....I stopped counting at 40. I had no trouble counting on my fingers how many of those 40+ recently made simultaneous multi frequency detector owners use a selectable single frequency most often as opposed to the Multi settings. It was easy because that number of people is ZERO.

Sure, if EMI is a problem, I may use a single frequency temporarily. However, out here where iron mineralization is moderate or worse, using a single frequency will severely mess with depth and with any form of target ID or audio tone accuracy on coin sized targets deeper than 3". These new SMF tech detectors can go deeper and give very accurate target IDs and tones 3 times deeper than even using their own onboard single frequency settings.

So, not everyone needs SMF. A good quality single frequency detector will work fine. A VLF with onboard selectable single frequencies is an even better option.

I can't speak for these manufacturers. However, there is no better way to be introduced to the modern SMF tech and lighter weight form factors and wireless features than for Minelab and Nokta to offer full featured single or selectable single frequency detectors at unbelievable prices to people who don't need SMF or to newer detector users that may graduate to a Manticore, Equinox, Legend or Deus 2 in the future.

For me, that is why these models from Nokta and Minelab are being introduced. It is not because of a failure in SMF technology.

Well, I guess you can now count me as the only 1 frequency user LOL. I run my Deus 2 at 40 kHz in my tot lots, and 15 kHz for coins. Do you even watch Youtube videos? How many times do you see them say they get a signal and switch to a single frequency to check it? Most all that know what they're doing do. I just happen to prefer to avoid having to switch because I know what I'm looking for.

Hey, you do you, but it will never change the facts. The facts are a single frequency will get better performance than multi on a given target. Pretty much all the new detectors are MF so of course there are a lot of people swinging a MF detector.

MF is good if you're general hunting. It hits well on high & low conductors, and that is the use for MF. But if you're going after a selected target, coins or gold, then a single frequency is the best choice.

That said, what I was stating is that the manufacturers, at first, tried pulling off that SMF/MULTI IQ was some amazing new slice of bread that would find all those goodies missed by those old single frequency detectors, but users knew better and called them on it. 20 year old technology trying to be used to sell new detectors. When all these new MFs first came out MF was all the rage, Do you notice now it has all changed to being able to select a single frequency? Which is a great feature, but nothing new. I was doing that with my DFX 20 years ago.

Here is a video I did 12 years ago showing how MF fails compared to a single frequency.

 

[AccurateCalls]

Do you even watch Youtube videos? How many times do you see them say they get a signal and switch to a single frequency to check it? Most all that know what they're doing do.

We must be watching entirely different videos / channels. I don't see hardly any one switching among frequencies to verify targets.

I mean, that is in essence, the advantage of SMF, is that it is using the data from multiple frequencies to determine the properties of the target, much in the way you are changing from different single frequencies to gather more information.

When all these new MFs first came out MF was all the rage, Do you notice now it has all changed to being able to select a single frequency?

We are serious living in alternate universes or something. XP Deus II, Nokta Legend, Manticore, Equinox 900, and now Quest, all of their top of the line detectors that have been very recently released are SMF and have an advertisement / marketing focus on them being SMF. The last detector Garrett released was SMF as well.

Name one flagship detector that is either only a selectable single frequency detector, or is primarily advertised as such? There are literally none.

I now find myself repeating the same stuff over and over and will cease this conversation, before I lose any more Moomins in the valley (Finnish equivalent to not having all one's marbles in the bag).

 

[Diga]

The old saying is "high frequencies for gold, and low frequencies for silver". However, I've found the former is definitely true, but the latter not so much. For example, in my mild ground, the frequency(s) doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference on a deep silver dime. On deep and small gold though, I find that the frequency(s) make a significant difference.

Paystreak did a video a couple of weeks ago that demonstrates that very same thing. He is using a Legend with the 9.5x6 coil, maximum recovery speed, and in red clay. The small gold ring and dime are buried at 6". All SMF and SF modes hit the dime fairly equally. On the gold ring though? 4 and 10 khz doesn't even see the ring, and 15 khz only "starts" to hit the ring. It's 20 and 40 khz which really make the ring light up. Yet, Multi 3 which is weighted heavily toward 4 khz, hits the ring (4 khz alone does not). In other words, that extra information that SMF receives, does have notable advantages.

I'm lucky that my ground is mild, but most of my sites have high EMI. As such, when I use SMF, I have to reduce my sensitivity, but can run max or close to max sensitivity in SF. This can negate the advantage of SMF in some EMI. However, to throw a monkey wrench in it, I don't necessarily have to reduce the sensitivity a lot in high EMI, because once the coil is on the ground, the EMI noise stops. When I set the detector down to dig, and the coil isn't processing the ground, the annoying EMI noise is heard again.

Due to all that, I prefer SMF and mainly use it, but on some sites, I prefer SF. Although for two reasons, I would never use a SF if a lot of iron is present. (1) SMF handles iron better than SF. (2) SF does not have an iron bias control, and I've found that an iron bias control is critical for unmasking the goodies from iron.

 

[Cherry Picker]

The old saying is "high frequencies for gold, and low frequencies for silver". However, I've found the former is definitely true, but the latter not so much. For example, in my mild ground, the frequency(s) doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference on a deep silver dime. On deep and small gold though, I find that the frequency(s) make a significant difference.

Paystreak did a video a couple of weeks ago that demonstrates that very same thing. He is using a Legend with the 9.5x6 coil, maximum recovery speed, and in red clay. The small gold ring and dime are buried at 6". All SMF and SF modes hit the dime fairly equally. On the gold ring though? 4 and 10 khz doesn't even see the ring, and 15 khz only "starts" to hit the ring. It's 20 and 40 khz which really make the ring light up. Yet, Multi 3 which is weighted heavily toward 4 khz, hits the ring (4 khz alone does not). In other words, that extra information that SMF receives, does have notable advantages.

I'm lucky that my ground is mild, but most of my sites have high EMI. As such, when I use SMF, I have to reduce my sensitivity, but can run max or close to max sensitivity in SF. This can negate the advantage of SMF in some EMI. However, to throw a monkey wrench in it, I don't necessarily have to reduce the sensitivity a lot in high EMI, because once the coil is on the ground, the EMI noise stops. When I set the detector down to dig, and the coil isn't processing the ground, the annoying EMI noise is heard again.

Due to all that, I prefer SMF and mainly use it, but on some sites, I prefer SF. Although for two reasons, I would never use a SF if a lot of iron is present. (1) SMF handles iron better than SF. (2) SF does not have an iron bias control, and I've found that an iron bias control is critical for unmasking the goodies from iron.

Yup, that is why I don't run at 4 kHz for deep coins/silver but 15 kHz. SMF is best for non specific hunting. That is to say basically looking for whatever a park has to offer. Once you get an iffy signal switching to a single frequency will do a far better job of ID'ing and better job on the audio. Having the right tool is important, but knowing how to properly use it is even more important.