Disappearing Signal Tip for Newbie Beach Hunters

[Sand Hunter]

Here's a tip for those new to hunting beaches, especially on dry sand. I started hunting beaches about 14 or 15 years ago, and in my first year, I was primarily hunting dry sand. There was 1 thing that first year that would drive me nuts. I'd get a good signal, take my first scoop of sand, and dump it out. I'd scan the dumped sand with my detector, no signal, then I'd rescan the hole and the signal was still there. So, I'd take a 2nd scoop, dump it out, run the coil over the sand, no signal, so back to checking the hole, signal was still there. So, I'd take a 3rd scoop, dump it out, run the coil over the pile, no signal. Then, I'd run the coil back over the hole and there was no signal. What?? Where did the target go??

I'd recheck the sand I pulled from the hole, move it around with my feet, nothing. Rescanned the hole, nothing. Was this a ghost signal of some type? Where the heck did the target go? It was such a good, solid, repeating signal, but it just seemed to vanish into thin air. This happened trip after trip, until one time when I got another vanishing target, out of sheer frustration, I angrily shoved my scoop back in the hole, grabbed some more sand, dumped it, scanned that sand, and what do ya know, the target was in that last scoop of sand. After looking at the target, and thinking about it for a bit, I was finally able to solve the mystery, so here's the answer for any of you who may be new to detecting on the beach.

If you get a good/solid tone, you start digging, then the tone seems to vanish after digging a few scoop fulls of sand, put your scoop back in the hole, grab another scoop full of sand, dump it out, run your coil over the dumped sand, and 99% of the time, the target will be there and I bet it will be a coin. What was happening was the coin was lying flat buried in the sand, so you received a good initial signal. After you removed a scoop or two of sand, you were still getting a good signal over the hole because the coin was still lying flat, but it was still deeper down, your scoop just hadn't reached it yet. But at some point, your scoop will get down to the right depth.

But sometimes, the coin may not wind up in the scoop. Sometimes, the scoop pushes the coin aside and instead of lying flat, it may now be standing upright on its edge. Your detector coil had no problem detecting the larger surface area when the coin was lying flat, but now that it's standing on edge, it's much more difficult for the detector to see it, because it would have to be able to detect metal with a surface area that's only the width of a coin. There's not enough surface area left for the coil to see, especially when the coin is deep down in the sand, so you lose your signal and think that the target just vanished. But 99% of the time, it's still down there in the hole, it's just standing upright, so it's much harder to detect, especially since it's now probably deeper than it was to start.

So, when your target seems to vanish in the hole, stick your scoop back in, grab more sand, dump it and check that pile. I can't believe how many times I've done that, and the coin was in the last scoop full of sand.

 

[GroundSweeper]

I have totally experienced this many times when beach hunting and even dirt hunting. With different detectors too. I never or rarely would do the one more scoop approach. Great thought to pass along, thanks!

 

[MasonDixonMding]

Sounds like some good advice. I’ve seen similar things happen in fields. I think for me there is two different reasons this happens. The first is the target is very deep and just on the edge of being to deep. I dig a deep hole and just miss pulling the target out with the plug. Now the target moves just a little bit deeper in the hole and I swing over and it’s gone. But it still in the hole just as you describe. The other is the target is very small which makes me think it a normal sized deep target so I dig a deep plug, throw it out of the hole and now the plug is up side down. Scan the hole and the plug and the target is gone. It’s in the plug but now it’s deeper in the plug than the detector can pick it up. Because it was only an inch or two deep and very small like underwear button. Now with more experience if I loss a signal the first thing I do is bust the plug up. If the signal isn’t there than I’ll dig deeper.

 

[Xxray]

Me, espeically at a beach, I dig until I find the target and don't count scoops. It is rare for a clear target to require more than 2 scoops since I can go well past 10" with 2 scoops [anything deeper than that would not be clear], if not found after 2 scoops that either means my pinpointing was off and the target is in the wall, or its something considerably larger than a coin/ring.

In fact, I generally don't even use or need a scoop in dry sand, only the water.

 

[Sand Hunter]

Sounds like some good advice. I’ve seen similar things happen in fields. I think for me there is two different reasons this happens. The first is the target is very deep and just on the edge of being to deep. I dig a deep hole and just miss pulling the target out with the plug. Now the target moves just a little bit deeper in the hole and I swing over and it’s gone. But it still in the hole just as you describe. The other is the target is very small which makes me think it a normal sized deep target so I dig a deep plug, throw it out of the hole and now the plug is up side down. Scan the hole and the plug and the target is gone. It’s in the plug but now it’s deeper in the plug than the detector can pick it up. Because it was only an inch or two deep and very small like underwear button. Now with more experience if I loss a signal the first thing I do is bust the plug up. If the signal isn’t there than I’ll dig deeper.

That's some good advice for the land hunters. I was always a land hunter before I started hitting the beaches, and I still enjoy coin shooting old houses, parks, any area that's old. On land, I would definitely use my pinpointer in the hole and also the plug. I carry my pinpointer with me when I'm on the beach, but I rarely use it. I tend to move a lot faster hunting on sand and it's just easier and quicker for me to grab another bucket of sand from the hole, dump it, and scan, then it would be to drop down, and poke around the hole with my pinpointer.

The sand is a lot more forgiving than dirt, and I can fill and smooth over a hole quickly, before moving to the next target. But on land, especially on permission land, I tend to be a lot more careful and focused, take more time, dig smaller holes, carefully remove plugs, then reseat the plugs back to remove any trace that I was there. Gotta keep the landowner happy and present a good image for the hobby.

Do any of you old timers remember the "pin pointers", aka probes we used to use on land back in the day? Remember pushing screwdrivers and ice picks to into the ground until we hit something solid, to pinpoint the location of the target?

 

[Sand Hunter]

Me, espeically at a beach, I dig until I find the target and don't count scoops. It is rare for a clear target to require more than 2 scoops since I can go well past 10" with 2 scoops [anything deeper than that would not be clear], if not found after 2 scoops that either means my pinpointing was off and the target is in the wall, or its something considerably larger than a coin/ring.

In fact, I generally don't even use or need a scoop in dry sand, only the water.

Yeah, there's been quite a few times over the years where my pinpointing was off, I had to move my scoop over to grab fresh sand and found the target. Turned out, just like you said, I was initially a little off and it was in the wall, lol.

 

[Xxray]

Yeah, there's been quite a few times over the years where my pinpointing was off, I had to move my scoop over to grab fresh sand and found the target. Turned out, just like you said, I was initially a little off and it was in the wall, lol.

Thats where the hand held pinpointers earn their keep, you think the target is 8" down and turns out its only 3" in the wall, which a pinpointer will easily and quickly confirm or deny. I think in my case at least, most cases of being off on [machine] pinponting is caused by target on angle or edge, and/or multiple targets baffling the pinponter.

 

[Beachhunt1]

Thats where the hand held pinpointers earn their keep, you think the target is 8" down and turns out its only 3" in the wall,

There is no way I am ever going to have a pin pointer at the beach.

 

[Sand Hunter]

Thats where the hand held pinpointers earn their keep, you think the target is 8" down and turns out its only 3" in the wall, which a pinpointer will easily and quickly confirm or deny. I think in my case at least, most cases of being off on [machine] pinponting is caused by target on angle or edge, and/or multiple targets baffling the pinponter.

My Garrett pinpointer has saved me a lot of grief when hunting on dry land, I also carry it with me when hunting on the beach but really never use it, it's just easier and faster for me to grab another scoop. Once the target is out of the hole, I just move the sand around with my foot to further isolate the target and help the coil pinpoint further.

All the detectors I've owned since 1967, except for an AT Pro & Ace 350, didn't have a pinpoint button or feature, or even a VDI screen. My Sovereign Elite is audio only, no screen, doesn't have a pinpoint mode either, just a switch for discriminate or all metal modes, so I've always used the "wiggle" method with the coil to try to get as close to the location of the target as possible. On sand, close enough is good enough, but on dry land, I always want to try to be more exact when pinpointing a target, especially when I'm on someone else's land. My Sovereign's SEF Butterfly coils help with pinpointing as well, as there's a "V" at the tip of the coil, directly in the center, where the left & right Double-D sections converge.

On dry land, we'd use a probe (screwdriver, ice pick, etc) as our "pinpointer", push it into the ground until we made contact with the target, then we would cut our plug around the probe. Man, there's just something very satisfying when using a probe to pinpoint a target, especially if it's a coin. As soon as your probe hits the coin, you feel it and can't push the probe any further. Then, you slide your index finger down the shaft of your probe until it's resting on the ground and against the probe shaft. Hold your finger against the probe and remove the probe from the dirt, and you'll be able to see exactly how deep the target is.

Sometimes the old ways are still the good ways.

Just got an X-Terra Elite with electronic pinpointing and a new Pro-Find 40 pinpointer. Can't wait to try pinpointing using the X-Terra's pinpoint button. But this old dog has a feeling that I'll probably just go back to using the wiggle method to pinpoint, been doing it that way for many years, lol.

 

[cellrdwellr]

Great advice, and I learned this the hard way myself. I do bring the pinpointer for those tiny lobster trap pieces and tiny round aluminum disks, but rarely use it.

 

[metaladdict]

I think you are right. Or the coin is detected easier with the sand/dirt on top of it?

 

[Xxray]

There is no way I am ever going to have a pin pointer at the beach.

I can live with that.
If you like to lug around an arm stretching anchor all day, you really don't need one.

 

[Xxray]

My Garrett pinpointer has saved me a lot of grief when hunting on dry land, I also carry it with me when hunting on the beach but really never use it, it's just easier and faster for me to grab another scoop. Once the target is out of the hole, I just move the sand around with my foot to further isolate the target and help the coil pinpoint further.

Yeah I have seen videos of guys taking a scoop, dumping it, kicking it around, rescanning the pile, kick some more, take another scoop, kicking it around more, try to isloate the target, take a tiny scoop, oops missed it, kick around some more, oh there it is, a bottle cap ! I would have been done in 3 seconds with my 5 in 1 and pinpointer, so its a matter of efficiency to me, plus not having to unnecessarily lug around a heavy item.
Guys that can't/won't bend over or squat do need to use a scoop, maybe I'll be in that boat some day, but not now. Most items down to 4" or so I can find in seconds with the pinpoiter alone without the need to dig at all ,, And you are right, various methods with the coil itself can help with tricky targets, including wiggling, lifting and sweeping from different angles.

Really is no right way or wrong way, just a matter of preference and style.

 

[KOB]

Yeah I have seen videos of guys taking a scoop, dumping it, kicking it around, rescanning the pile, kick some more, take another scoop, kicking it around more, try to isloate the target, take a tiny scoop, oops missed it, kick around some more, oh there it is, a bottle cap ! I would have been done in 3 seconds with my 5 in 1 and pinpointer, so its a matter of efficiency to me, plus not having to unnecessarily lug around a heavy item.
Guys that can't/won't bend over or squat do need to use a scoop, maybe I'll be in that boat some day, but not now. Most items down to 4" or so I can find in seconds with the pinpoiter alone without the need to dig at all ,, And you are right, various methods with the coil itself can help with tricky targets, including wiggling, lifting and sweeping from different angles.

Really is no right way or wrong way, just a matter of preference and style.

You must have some long dirty fingernails from all that digging.. Problem as you stated is targets beyond 4-6" range. And I think that's based on your area. You're not going to dig many targets in So.Cal without "lugging around a boat anchor" as many are 10+" deep. 1 buddy of mine carries both a scoop and PP. Though he is fast , not as fast as retrieving a target as me standing up and just using my scoop only.

 

[Xxray]

You must have some long dirty fingernails from all that digging.. Problem as you stated is targets beyond 4-6" range. And I think that's based on your area. You're not going to dig many targets in So.Cal without "lugging around a boat anchor" as many are 10+" deep. 1 buddy of mine carries both a scoop and PP. Though he is fast , not as fast as retrieving a target as me standing up and just using my scoop only.

I know, we have been over this - I think I'd smoke ya, you are sure you'd smoke me, more than likely we will never know ,,, But certainly, local hunting conditions are a factor, such as depth and sand compaction.

 

[Beachhunt1]

Yeah I have seen videos of guys taking a scoop, dumping it, kicking it around, rescanning the pile, kick some more, take another scoop, kicking it around more, try to isloate the target, take a tiny scoop, oops missed it, kick around some more, oh there it is, a bottle cap ! I would have been done in 3 seconds with my 5 in 1 and pinpointer, so its a matter of efficiency to me, plus not having to unnecessarily lug around a heavy item.
Guys that can't/won't bend over or squat do need to use a scoop, maybe I'll be in that boat some day, but not now. Most items down to 4" or so I can find in seconds with the pinpoiter alone without the need to dig at all

I will qualify more. I am always in the water/wet sand. There is no need for a pin pointer as my wave wash is violent and washing the scoop is the only option. For the few targets a day that are small enough to get through the scoop I do not see the need to carry a pin pointer. If I hunted dry sand, there is no way I would hunt it without a pin pointer.

 

[OBN]

You must have some long dirty fingernails from all that digging.. Problem as you stated is targets beyond 4-6" range. And I think that's based on your area. You're not going to dig many targets in So.Cal without "lugging around a boat anchor" as many are 10+" deep. 1 buddy of mine carries both a scoop and PP. Though he is fast , not as fast as retrieving a target as me standing up and just using my scoop only.

Never a problem on deep targets, my weakness. Surface targets and the 720 scoop. I go to fresh drop beaches I struggle if I don't use my other scoop, SITO. SITO scoop... first scoop, ....... using the 720, two or sometimes 3 to nail a target right on the surface, and me in 4 plus feet of low vis water. Old beaches where targets are always 12+, never a issue with the 720. Rarely, but I have had a few targets I have chased, most were pennies. And occasionally I will be digging a deep target and it seems like its dropping down in further/deeper ... after retrieving it.. I have learned to check all around the holes rim for another target, many of those have been gold rings.. one reason I will cress cross back and thru a area I have cratered like the moon.

As far as my Carrot, Never use it with the excalibur, sometimes I will with the AQ PI, only reason it will get targets my eyes can not pick out. And I use a sifter so its not a major issue if I don't take it.

 

[Sand Hunter]

I think you are right. Or the coin is detected easier with the sand/dirt on top of it?

That's a distinct possibility as well, as depending on how long the coin has been under the sand/dirt, it may have formed a halo which would be easier for the coil to detect. Once the sand/dirt is disturbed, the halo is disturbed, and the coin loses the ability to present a larger signal. But I think even if that were to happen, and the coin's signal "disappeared", it's probably still going to be down in the hole, so another scoop will hopefully retrieve it. At least that's been my experience on the beach/sand.

 

[Sand Hunter]

I can live with that.
If you like to lug around an arm stretching anchor all day, you really don't need one.

Trust me brother, if you're swinging a Minelab Sovereign, with a 12x10 or 15x12 SEF Butterfly coil, you're really going to want to have a scoop, because sometimes you'll be digging 1/2 way to China, lol. I've hit coins so deep that it literally blew my mind, no way I'm going to be digging with my hands down to 15" or 18". One of my deepest holes that I can recall on the beach was so deep, I jumped into the hole and the top of the hole equaled the top of my kneecap, which is 24".

My scoop is SS and weighs a few pounds, not too bad. When I first got it, I detected with it slung across the top of my shoulder. But hunting some beaches, especially when there's people and kids around, I didn't want to take the chance of swinging around and popping someone in the head with that bucket. Then, I started carrying it in my left hand (see profile pic). That's not bad, wasn't uncomfortable or anything. Just hold the shaft where the weight of the bucket balances out. But then, I started letting the scoop drag behind me. I have my detector and scoop tethered by cord to my belt, so if I'm in the water and get hit by a wave or something, I'm not gonna lose my shaft or scoop. Since the scoop is tethered to my belt, I just let it go and it drags behind me while I'm swinging away.

Side benefit of letting the scoop drag behind you is that bucket will smooth out the sand as you're walking, thereby forming a visual "trail". You can look back or look over the beach and visually see where you've been, which comes in very handy when you're grid searching. Think of it as a poor man's GPS, lol.

 

[Xxray]

Trust me brother, if you're swinging a Minelab Sovereign, with a 12x10 or 15x12 SEF Butterfly coil, you're really going to want to have a scoop, because sometimes you'll be digging 1/2 way to China, lol. I've hit coins so deep that it literally blew my mind, no way I'm going to be digging with my hands down to 15" or 18". One of my deepest holes that I can recall on the beach was so deep, I jumped into the hole and the top of the hole equaled the top of my kneecap, which is 24".

My scoop is SS and weighs a few pounds, not too bad. When I first got it, I detected with it slung across the top of my shoulder. But hunting some beaches, especially when there's people and kids around, I didn't want to take the chance of swinging around and popping someone in the head with that bucket. Then, I started carrying it in my left hand (see profile pic). That's not bad, wasn't uncomfortable or anything. Just hold the shaft where the weight of the bucket balances out. But then, I started letting the scoop drag behind me. I have my detector and scoop tethered by cord to my belt, so if I'm in the water and get hit by a wave or something, I'm not gonna lose my shaft or scoop. Since the scoop is tethered to my belt, I just let it go and it drags behind me while I'm swinging away.

Side benefit of letting the scoop drag behind you is that bucket will smooth out the sand as you're walking, thereby forming a visual "trail". You can look back or look over the beach and visually see where you've been, which comes in very handy when you're grid searching. Think of it as a poor man's GPS, lol.

Not interested or possible in going near that deep for the beaches I hunt.
I'm not anti scoop, use them in the water and I have done my share of gridding on the dry sand with them, they are just not necessary for my style and location. Tethering is good, though I couldn't see doing it on the sand ,, But in the water, I often use a floating sand sifter which is tethered to my ankle with a surf board strap. I often hunt in my swimming trunks, which leave limited options where to tether something to [suggestions welcome] !