NCtoad
Forum Supporter
Thanks for the vid...that is impressive!
Thoughts on the Rutus Alter 71
- Thread starter Donsell
- Start date
Thanks for the vid...that is impressive!
ghound
Elite Member
Something interesting with Rutus hodograph info.
I have tried to rig some unmasking tests using nonferrous items and nails.
I can use a big piece of iron and place on top of clean concrete and get more or less the same backwards C in hodograph.
But the signatures I saw yesterday on nonferrous targets using Rutus,,,I cannot seem to duplicate them.
I can here the tonal effects on test rigged for unmasking,,,but hodograph data don't help here at all.
So it seems the ground and or masking materials are making hodograph do something different here,,,this is not bad,,,But a Rutus user trying to see how the hodograph reads by trying to booby trap say a few coins with nails,,might get mislead somewhat.
And this is why I likely left nonferrous targets in the ground unintentionally,,cause I did this above.
Cheers
I have tried to rig some unmasking tests using nonferrous items and nails.
I can use a big piece of iron and place on top of clean concrete and get more or less the same backwards C in hodograph.
But the signatures I saw yesterday on nonferrous targets using Rutus,,,I cannot seem to duplicate them.
I can here the tonal effects on test rigged for unmasking,,,but hodograph data don't help here at all.
So it seems the ground and or masking materials are making hodograph do something different here,,,this is not bad,,,But a Rutus user trying to see how the hodograph reads by trying to booby trap say a few coins with nails,,might get mislead somewhat.
And this is why I likely left nonferrous targets in the ground unintentionally,,cause I did this above.
Cheers
Last edited:
NCtoad
Forum Supporter
Just watched a video on the Rutus and the fellow mentioned that when he let the coil touch the top of the grass he got a scratchy signal, but when he swung above the grass the signal cleared up. Why would the coil give a scratchy signal when coming in contact with the grass? He also said the AKA sorex does exactly the same thing. Here's the vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4iCMGepzWw At 6:40 mark in video.
Your video link don't work.
Anyway,,Inhave run aka sorex, aka signum (I still have btw) and Rutus.
Just yesterday,,I was pushing weeds over,,tall grass,,,detector ran quiet for this scenario.
Now,,if you get a tad rough with coil,,bump it,,it might give a tingle or 2.
Now,,aka sorex and signum,,,you do what I did with Rutus yesterday,,,,you get a load of falses.
My Rutus with both 11 dd coil and 9x8" concentric coil,,, for exposing coil to what I call challenging situations,,,tall grass, weeds,,small sticks,,,,does very well.
IMO even better than my Minelab CTX does if that means anything. I rate CTX good here.
And even better than the White's V3i I had wearing stock 10dd coil. I rate V3i bad here.
Blisstool V6 suffers too in this department.
I rate v6 Blisstool bad here.
Nokta Impact does well,,Deus too IMO
Nokta relic does well too.
I hate running a unit that falses with very small impacts of coil,,just not my cup of tea. I can use a unit that does,,,but having to use a unit gingerly takes more time and patience,,and makes for quite a few resweeps.
All this my first hand experience.
Donsell
Forum Supporter
I tend to swing low and I've not noticed this. I thought maybe he was using an all metal mode, but he was in coins.
Perhaps his soil is more mineralized than it is here in Nebraska and that was causing him issues?
Couple things. I finally accessed the video.
If folks will go back up and read here,,,Ghound commented on Rutus gives better signals with coil off the ground,,,not scrubbing.
I have seen this too.
Yesterday I was hunting an area,,I am very familiar with.
At one point my Rutus started getting noisy??
Why??
Because the ground changed phase.
I have hunted this place so much with Deus,,,and watched how the ground changes when I move to parricularly this one area in field. And not a small change either rather a large change. 10 points on Deus.
A reground balance with Rutus,,,back to purring.
I also had to change GB setting on Deus too,,other wise even nails start sounding too good.
I really like Rutus GB system.
And remember when you ground balance Rutus you bobbing coil,,not dropping all the way to the ground.
Based on my use thus far,,,Rutus not having a tracking GB or a manual way of setting,,,,this is the least of my concerns with this detector.
Watch the video again above.
The target around the 5minute mark,,,I didn't see the hodograph signature when target was detected,,,but I did see the hodograph reading when target was in plug. See that little curly cue thingy on meter,,,when I saw that,,I knew the target was not iron.
This is what I saw yesterday on a lot of targets.
Also worth mentioning,,when alerted to tone you see hodograph with no signature info,,yet you get tone,,,and the tone may not be ideal,,,this is a good sign of Deeper nonferous find.
Could a person dig a deep nail??
Possibly,,but so far I haven't dug many at all,,extremely few.
Iron it seems will rip the hodograph with signature.
This one site,,,has nails at various depths,,surface to likely at least a foot deep.
How do I know this??
Guess
This site is where I learned to detect,,,so some of these deep nails did get dug.
And even today,,running Xp Deus,,,it is not out of the question for me to dig a deep nail here every once in a while,,,and this so knowing the Deus well,,I think.
This in why I go here with a new detector to me,,,,this site will sniff out a detector's weakness(Es) IMO as far as performance in and around iron.
I pushed Rutus yesterday,,for my time on unit.
I liked what I saw.
If folks will go back up and read here,,,Ghound commented on Rutus gives better signals with coil off the ground,,,not scrubbing.
I have seen this too.
Yesterday I was hunting an area,,I am very familiar with.
At one point my Rutus started getting noisy??
Why??
Because the ground changed phase.
I have hunted this place so much with Deus,,,and watched how the ground changes when I move to parricularly this one area in field. And not a small change either rather a large change. 10 points on Deus.
A reground balance with Rutus,,,back to purring.
I also had to change GB setting on Deus too,,other wise even nails start sounding too good.
I really like Rutus GB system.
And remember when you ground balance Rutus you bobbing coil,,not dropping all the way to the ground.
Based on my use thus far,,,Rutus not having a tracking GB or a manual way of setting,,,,this is the least of my concerns with this detector.
Watch the video again above.
The target around the 5minute mark,,,I didn't see the hodograph signature when target was detected,,,but I did see the hodograph reading when target was in plug. See that little curly cue thingy on meter,,,when I saw that,,I knew the target was not iron.
This is what I saw yesterday on a lot of targets.
Also worth mentioning,,when alerted to tone you see hodograph with no signature info,,yet you get tone,,,and the tone may not be ideal,,,this is a good sign of Deeper nonferous find.
Could a person dig a deep nail??
Possibly,,but so far I haven't dug many at all,,extremely few.
Iron it seems will rip the hodograph with signature.
This one site,,,has nails at various depths,,surface to likely at least a foot deep.
How do I know this??
Guess
This site is where I learned to detect,,,so some of these deep nails did get dug.
And even today,,running Xp Deus,,,it is not out of the question for me to dig a deep nail here every once in a while,,,and this so knowing the Deus well,,I think.
This in why I go here with a new detector to me,,,,this site will sniff out a detector's weakness(Es) IMO as far as performance in and around iron.
I pushed Rutus yesterday,,for my time on unit.
I liked what I saw.
Last edited:
More Rutus data.
Went back to site I was at yesterday.
My goal to find a suspect target and play with mask setting.
Didn't locate one single target in roughly 2 hours time.
Used 11" dd coil.
Let's talk emi or noise from this detector.
So far in running in while detecting,,,I have heard no negative affects in the audio or tone transition that I would attribute to EMI.
But while in the site today,,I held coil up in the air.
Just listening it sounded like a mini Deus,,,,Deus users here will know what I'm referring to.
But lower coil to like 12" or closer to ground,,dead quiet.
I tried a lot of different freqs both higher and lower,,,all seemed to behave the same way here.
On my way home I purposely stopped in this one place,,,this place only one of 2 places I have ever had a Etrac or CTX get noisy emi wise.
I tried the Rutus here,,,same behavior as noted above.
Toward the end of my excursion today in this site I tried to make a find,,,I buried a clad dime,,Garrett propointer length deep,,9.125".
Now we have had hot weather the last couple days,,so ground conditions here drier than when I tested here a few days ago.
How did the dime sound with Rutus??
Nothing I would have dug.
I could see no improvement at all even by changing freqs.
One note here,,,and I saw this the last time,,,a lower mask setting like 0-2 helps with some audio trying to sneak through,,,mask level 6,,elzippo signal.
I tried every conceivable settings change.
Again I though 17khz through max give about as good as I could get.
Reactivity level 1 here.
So,,whipped out Deus with 11" coil,,,I could get a diggable signal using.
Reactvity levels 1 and 2 mandatory,,8khz, 12khz, even 18khz provided diggable signals.
4khz Inrate here as a fail,,,I honestly believe with Xp having it tied to Tx power level 3,, it just washes out signals here in my soil.
External speakers used on both detectors.
Gain settings of 50 and 60 used on Rutus,,an audio report level 7 used on Deus.
Listened to level 5 on Deus,,signal was there and IMO wearing headsets a person would hear at this level.
Just one test on one freshly buried clad dime.
I tried to keep plug intact too.
Not exactly scientific,,but this test leads me to at least say Deus is deeper at least on tilled/disturbed soil.
Would like to do more test to be certain.
This signal Deus provided was not strong by no means,,but audible with clear dig me sound to it.
Cheers.
Went back to site I was at yesterday.
My goal to find a suspect target and play with mask setting.
Didn't locate one single target in roughly 2 hours time.
Used 11" dd coil.
Let's talk emi or noise from this detector.
So far in running in while detecting,,,I have heard no negative affects in the audio or tone transition that I would attribute to EMI.
But while in the site today,,I held coil up in the air.
Just listening it sounded like a mini Deus,,,,Deus users here will know what I'm referring to.
But lower coil to like 12" or closer to ground,,dead quiet.
I tried a lot of different freqs both higher and lower,,,all seemed to behave the same way here.
On my way home I purposely stopped in this one place,,,this place only one of 2 places I have ever had a Etrac or CTX get noisy emi wise.
I tried the Rutus here,,,same behavior as noted above.
Toward the end of my excursion today in this site I tried to make a find,,,I buried a clad dime,,Garrett propointer length deep,,9.125".
Now we have had hot weather the last couple days,,so ground conditions here drier than when I tested here a few days ago.
How did the dime sound with Rutus??
Nothing I would have dug.
I could see no improvement at all even by changing freqs.
One note here,,,and I saw this the last time,,,a lower mask setting like 0-2 helps with some audio trying to sneak through,,,mask level 6,,elzippo signal.
I tried every conceivable settings change.
Again I though 17khz through max give about as good as I could get.
Reactivity level 1 here.
So,,whipped out Deus with 11" coil,,,I could get a diggable signal using.
Reactvity levels 1 and 2 mandatory,,8khz, 12khz, even 18khz provided diggable signals.
4khz Inrate here as a fail,,,I honestly believe with Xp having it tied to Tx power level 3,, it just washes out signals here in my soil.
External speakers used on both detectors.
Gain settings of 50 and 60 used on Rutus,,an audio report level 7 used on Deus.
Listened to level 5 on Deus,,signal was there and IMO wearing headsets a person would hear at this level.
Just one test on one freshly buried clad dime.
I tried to keep plug intact too.
Not exactly scientific,,but this test leads me to at least say Deus is deeper at least on tilled/disturbed soil.
Would like to do more test to be certain.
This signal Deus provided was not strong by no means,,but audible with clear dig me sound to it.
Cheers.
Donsell
Forum Supporter
TNSS - Would the Impact have gotten that dime?
I have checked Impact on a 9" freshly buried clad dime,,,but not this one today.
In case anyone is wondering,,,why I am for comparison purposes picking Deus.
The reason is,,its coil (11") is awfully close dimension wise to Rutus 11" DD coil.
I will eventually bring Impact in to compare. Taking 3 detectors and doing cross checks is tough,,,2 ain't easy.
Besides in this site,,,there are cattle,,I have to keep an eye out,,so my detectors don't get trampled.
I need to spend some more time in this site with Rutus using concentric coil,,now that I have better understanding of its hodograph presentations.
I bought some nail stakes today (5) to mark targets with so I can compare.
I did find 4 good nonferrous targets in this site using the concentric coil,,actually pretty fast,,,surprised me.
If I can find a few with concentric coil using Rutus,,,will compare to Rutus 11" dd coil,,and Deus and 9" dd coil.
Might try and slip Impact in with stock coil to compare.
I also checked Rutus last night,,,by turning on Garrett propointer and sweeping it around the control head of Rutus to see how much interference was caused.
Results here very good,,little audio displaying emi effects from pinpointer.
May take unit to town,,and try in what I think are some bad places for emi based on buildings,,light wires,,utility buildings,,ect.
To get a better idea of just how subceptible the unit really is.
May also fire up my CTX and see what effects it has,,,if it gets a pass here,,oh boy. Fbs units can punish standard Vlf units,,I've seen.
ghound
Elite Member
Donsell
Forum Supporter
Thanks TNSS. I enjoy reading your comparisons, but you can go out just to enjoy hunting if you want to!
Donsell
Forum Supporter
Thanks ghound. I am going to try to get one.
I try and mix things up,,,depends on the situation,,the mood I'm in, etc.
This time of year,,I am site restricted.
All the tidbits posted about a model detector,,,all these tidbits when added together over time,,will paint a picture of what a person can expect when using the detector.
I can see on targets in the ground for a while,,the target's conductivity falls line somewhat with frequency used to try and detect.
I can also see reactive setting,,,the selection here (the best signal) achieved is driven by soil minerlization.
Very similar to Deus here.
Will do some test using minerlized bricks soon,,,to see their affects.
ghound
Elite Member
A quick blast out to try the module, no issues, detector was purring!
Also had a look at a new field thats just been seeded, pick up a few bits. The coin is a well worn King George Hibernian copper, you can just make out the crown above the harp, early 1700's, so this field looks promising.
Also had a look at a new field thats just been seeded, pick up a few bits. The coin is a well worn King George Hibernian copper, you can just make out the crown above the harp, early 1700's, so this field looks promising.
Attachments
Nice one.
Ghound,,on your hunt programs,,what is the highest hot rock setting you utilize??
ghound
Elite Member
Still experimenting to be honest, in my test garden, on deep high conductors, running + positive hot rock is the way to go, but your moving the end of the scale slightly so your going to let other stuff bleed through.
In the tilled field today, it was 18.4khz, reactivity 3, masking was high as there was loads of small iron, audio gain 20, 60 sensitivity.
I was really just surface scratching a new permission.
Best silver so far for the Rutus, 1826 King George IV shilling.
In the tilled field today, it was 18.4khz, reactivity 3, masking was high as there was loads of small iron, audio gain 20, 60 sensitivity.
I was really just surface scratching a new permission.
Best silver so far for the Rutus, 1826 King George IV shilling.
Attachments
Last edited:
Vinnie1966
Junior Member
Some interesting discussions going on here. 
I'm using the RA71 for about 3 months now, a pure joy to use.
Normally I search between 8 and 15 kHz, reactivity 3 to 6, masking 2, gain around 30, my own (full tones) soundprofile with a just audible treshold. (TH level 10) TH sens mostly at 2. No disc or notch.
When very busy with (iron) signals I might speed up the reaction and go to a higher masking, go to Relic 2 soundprofile and don't use the All metal channel anymore. Just to prevent my brains for overload.
I'm using the RA71 for about 3 months now, a pure joy to use.
Normally I search between 8 and 15 kHz, reactivity 3 to 6, masking 2, gain around 30, my own (full tones) soundprofile with a just audible treshold. (TH level 10) TH sens mostly at 2. No disc or notch.
When very busy with (iron) signals I might speed up the reaction and go to a higher masking, go to Relic 2 soundprofile and don't use the All metal channel anymore. Just to prevent my brains for overload.
Donsell
Forum Supporter
Some interesting discussions going on here.
I'm using the RA71 for about 3 months now, a pure joy to use.
Normally I search between 8 and 15 kHz, reactivity 3 to 6, masking 2, gain around 30, my own (full tones) soundprofile with a just audible treshold. (TH level 10) TH sens mostly at 2. No disc or notch.
When very busy with (iron) signals I might speed up the reaction and go to a higher masking, go to Relic 2 soundprofile and don't use the All metal channel anymore. Just to prevent my brains for overload.
If my search area is clean enough I've been trying the Deep program. It's another layer of information, but I get you if your area is trashy then there is overload.
But TNSS is getting interesting results that indicate that maybe higher frequencies are finding deeper targets. His soil is pretty mineralized so that may make a difference.
I need to get out more!
ghound
Elite Member
Had another lunchtime hunt, another King George with a better bust than yesterday's and a few other more modern coins.
Pretty happy with this machine, defo keeping it as my main detector as it can cover so many bases.
Looking forward to a few more coils!
Pretty happy with this machine, defo keeping it as my main detector as it can cover so many bases.
Looking forward to a few more coils!
