AIRFORCEMIKE
Forum Supporter
rudy thats correct thats the patriot act passed after 911 prevents stuff like that.
Sold My Gold for $94,000.00
- Thread starter 0m3nc0w63
- Start date
rudy thats correct thats the patriot act passed after 911 prevents stuff like that.
HighFlyer
Elite Member
The car dealership I work at told me that if anyone comes in to buy a car and they pay with $10,000 or more in cash money that we have to report it to the government. I've seen it happen twice since I've been here.
Yousername
Elite Member
oh yea... forgot about that little federal law....
Dam straight.
hooper1
Senior Member
In the last few months there has been a spike in fake posts, I think thats kinda odd.
scout23
Elite Member
So the OP has 94,000 worth of gold and he waits till the price drops to sell. Strange. Sorry guys, didn't read the entire post to see this was already mentioned. My bad.
ParkHunter
Forum Supporter
Isn't is spelled "Ninety"?Wondering if anyone is familiar with electronic gold testing devices. I am currently in a lawsuit with a gold buying company that tested my gold and had 2 jewelers look at my samples in person, tested it out at around 16 carat and wrote me a check for $94K.
They tested every piece and it was positive for gold. They came back later and said the refinery used X-Ray Fluorescent Spectrometry and it was a worthless alloy.
Now they want their money back :-(
Does anyone know about the mistakes an electronic gold tester can make?
0m3nc0w63
New Member
I'm glad everyone likes the post enough that it is getting this much action. I do want to clear a few things up though as there are so many folks claiming this is fake.
It is not.
The check however WAS Photoshop'd with a different amount so that this post won't come back and bite me before this is settled. The #'s we are talking about are in the ballpark though + or - about $13K.
One member questioned why I would come here for advice and not go to my attorney since I am in a lawsuit. My bad, I should have used the word litigation as nothing has been filed in court as of yet. Right now it is just talk amongst parties and consultations with attorneys.
Damn, I can't believe I spelled 90 wrong. No spell checker in Photoshop CS4... Damn again.
When I brought the gold in, the buyer tested the pieces with an electronic gold tester where they filed two ends with a jewelers file, placed an alligator clip on one end and a pen thing on the other and got a digital readout on the device that was about the size of an HP Scientific calculator.
When the buyer sent it off for refining it was returned to them as a worthless alloy by the refinery as they test with X-Ray Fluorescence Spec.
My question (which by the way no one has even addressed because of all of the speculation regarding the legitimacy of my original post) was if anyone knew enough about the workings of these electronic testers to explain how they could be fallible to such a degree?
Seems like anyone could take this specific alloy in to any buyer that only did electronic testing and make a bundle. However I can't find any warnings or even mentions of false positives on Google with these types of testers.
I have no problem identifying myself and backing this story up with the business name and name of the Detective that interviewed me when this is resolved. And the real check.
Sincerely,
- 0m3nc0w63 (OmenCow63)
PS whoever suggested my username was "OmenCow" gave me a real laugh. Hillarious! I was almost in tears.
It is not.
The check however WAS Photoshop'd with a different amount so that this post won't come back and bite me before this is settled. The #'s we are talking about are in the ballpark though + or - about $13K.
One member questioned why I would come here for advice and not go to my attorney since I am in a lawsuit. My bad, I should have used the word litigation as nothing has been filed in court as of yet. Right now it is just talk amongst parties and consultations with attorneys.
Damn, I can't believe I spelled 90 wrong. No spell checker in Photoshop CS4... Damn again.
When I brought the gold in, the buyer tested the pieces with an electronic gold tester where they filed two ends with a jewelers file, placed an alligator clip on one end and a pen thing on the other and got a digital readout on the device that was about the size of an HP Scientific calculator.
When the buyer sent it off for refining it was returned to them as a worthless alloy by the refinery as they test with X-Ray Fluorescence Spec.
My question (which by the way no one has even addressed because of all of the speculation regarding the legitimacy of my original post) was if anyone knew enough about the workings of these electronic testers to explain how they could be fallible to such a degree?
Seems like anyone could take this specific alloy in to any buyer that only did electronic testing and make a bundle. However I can't find any warnings or even mentions of false positives on Google with these types of testers.
I have no problem identifying myself and backing this story up with the business name and name of the Detective that interviewed me when this is resolved. And the real check.
Sincerely,
- 0m3nc0w63 (OmenCow63)
PS whoever suggested my username was "OmenCow" gave me a real laugh. Hillarious! I was almost in tears.
montanamuzik
Elite Member
"I have no problem identifying myself and backing this story up with the business name and name of the Detective that interviewed me when this is resolved."
That would likely be a very very long time. That's the way litigation works. The attorneys come out alright though.
That would likely be a very very long time. That's the way litigation works. The attorneys come out alright though.
It doesn't say OmenCow63? Hmm... that's all I can see...
Anyway... are you positive that the gold was real? What form was the gold in when you sent it in? Jewelry? Bar?
If the gold buyer expects to get his money back, he better not have melted the gold down yet. Otherwise there is no way of proving that you sold him fake gold, and no way you can be sure that you are getting back what you sent in, and not being completely scammed.
If he hasn't melted it down, you're probably going to want to return the money and get your gold back. Or it is considered Theft by Deception.
Most of us use Acid to test gold.
Ice Scratcher
Elite Member
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 18,347
BTW, I googled Omen Cow, and found almost nothing..
I'll never get those 3 minutes back... Thanks OZ!
<*)))>{
btw, i googled omen cow, and found almost nothing..
I'll never get those 3 minutes back... Thanks oz!
<*)))>{
lol
So since your back can you tell us the story on how you got all this suposedly bogus gold, what form it was in, and how many pieces?
Your story still seems fishy. you said 94 grand now its either 81 grand or 107 grand. A first time poster and you have a reason to change everything on a check? How many other forums have you tried to ask?
And lets see, You said it was 16 karat. Also a strange number. And NO gold buyer tests gold in the presence of two other jewlers. What was in it for them to be there?
Maybe the check was for nine hundred dollars and it was embelished. We will probably never know. I think you are on the wrong forum since you probably never found the gold to begin with.
Your story still seems fishy. you said 94 grand now its either 81 grand or 107 grand. A first time poster and you have a reason to change everything on a check? How many other forums have you tried to ask?
And lets see, You said it was 16 karat. Also a strange number. And NO gold buyer tests gold in the presence of two other jewlers. What was in it for them to be there?
Maybe the check was for nine hundred dollars and it was embelished. We will probably never know. I think you are on the wrong forum since you probably never found the gold to begin with.
scout23
Elite Member
And why would you sell when the market is way down on gold.
hooper1
Senior Member
I still call b.s on your story. Whats the point of photo shopping a check so it doesnt come back at you. Heres an idea dont post the check online.
whats the point of that?
whats the point of that?
FAL guy
Senior Member
Strange, the check has a fold in it and isn't laying flat, yet the printing of the amount crosses the check in a perfectly flat line.
HighFlyer
Elite Member
Well if this story is all true, I don't see how the buyer could ask for his money back.... he tested it and he thought it was real so he bought it. That's the risk he takes in that business. I'd tell him "sorry no refunds" and get that check cashed ASAP.... unless you are inclined to do the right thing and not let him be screwed... but maybe it's the refinery who is trying to screw the buyer, and poop is rolling down hill. Or maybe there's an honest mistake in there somewhere.
Anyway the story does sound fishy. That's a lot of gold to all be fake and all be the same karat... unless you are talking about a bunch of bullion or rounds that all came from the same place. Are we talking about dug scrap jewelry here or something else?
IF we are talking about some bogus bullion you bought and are now trying to sell, this whole story sounds a LOT more feasible... though I don't know why bullion would be 16K??? There is a lot of really good fake bullion out there.
Anyway the story does sound fishy. That's a lot of gold to all be fake and all be the same karat... unless you are talking about a bunch of bullion or rounds that all came from the same place. Are we talking about dug scrap jewelry here or something else?
IF we are talking about some bogus bullion you bought and are now trying to sell, this whole story sounds a LOT more feasible... though I don't know why bullion would be 16K??? There is a lot of really good fake bullion out there.
3ZIGS
Junior Member
I own a business and any check over 10k gets reported to the IRS ASAP.
0m3nc0w63
New Member
Fine, I relent... Here is the whole story.
I am a dentist.
I was waiting for my next patient to arrive; the desk I sit at is in a semi finished basement, not uncomfortable but then again not very pretty. I had just finished speaking with a friend and colleague about his recent speculation on precious metals listed on eBay. He was bidding on sprues.
To understand what a sprue is we need to talk about casting jewelry or dental crowns. When you cast a ring or a gold crown you first carve it out in wax. Then you add your wax sprue: a little cylinder and plug like the one showed here on top of the ring. Next, suspend the whole thing in plaster, let it set, turn it upside down and pop it in a 600 Deg. oven to melt out the wax. Pour in molten gold and you get this (left). Once you cut the ring off what you have left over is a sprue.
My friend had bid on a 16oz lot of dental casting sprues; they were white metal which seemed a bit more risky than bidding on gold colored metal. However in dentistry white gold is used for bridges because the nickel used in white gold makes it stronger to withstand long spans of missing teeth.
Over the course of the next few days he updated me on the bidding and it was getting up there close to $200.00. The seller had a 99.6% positive feedback rating which was promising. My friends method for winning a bid is to wait and place his bid with only 5 seconds left; he did this and won the bidding.
I promptly forgot about his adventures in metal speculation until the following week when he told me that I should consider bidding on one of this guys lots as he took his casting sprues around to different gold buyers in the area and made almost 800% profit. His metal tested out differently at the three places he took it to but everyone tested it out as gold.
The next day I spoke with my wife and we decided to place a bid on the next lot. Unfortunately he didn’t have anything listed at that time so I created an eBay account and sent him a message. We finally spoke on the phone and I paid him directly over the internet for several pounds. He shipped the metal USPS and I received it Tuesday, the day after Memorial Day.
It was a dull white metal, but castings even in pure gold are quite dull until they are polished. Where the sprues were cut from their counterparts the metal was of a very shiny luster. I waited in anticipation until Friday when I had an afternoon off and proceeded to [x] jewelers as they had a coupon for a 10% bonus on the gold you bring in.
I showed one of the associates several pieces, she examined it and then used a jewelers file and filed a little off both ends to reveal the brilliant shiny white metal underneath the dull casting surface. She then placed electrodes at both of the spots she polished and recorded the results from the screen on the electronic gold testing computer. It tested out as 16 carat gold! I was elated! I literally struck gold! I calmly asked how much they would be interested in and she replied with a smile “how much do you have?”, I opened my satchel and placed all of the gold on the table, she proceeded to test and every piece she placed between the electrodes came out the same way registering about 16 carat.
After the testing was complete I walked out with a check representing 2100% profit.
I was terribly excited, and quite frankly riddled with anxiety at the same time. My mind was racing as I was driving back up the 205. My initial thought was that I needed to get in touch with my new eBay friend and purchase every last ounce that he might have.
Then it dawned on me, this is just too good to be true, how could someone have so much gold and not know what they have? Perhaps they bought a dental lab from someone with Alzheimer's? Maybe it is being auctioned off from a dental lab bankruptcy? Unlikely, why wouldn’t the eBay seller have the metal tested? After all you can take it to most jewelry stores that buy gold. The only other alternative is that it must have been stolen. Could I have unwittingly gotten myself involved in receiving stolen property? My heart sank, so I took the exit before mine and stopped at the County Sheriffs Office where I got my concealed permit and spoke with Mike, a detective. After explaining the course of events he went up and spoke with his commanding officer. When he returned he smiled and said you know, the internet doesn't really have any police yet, there are no victims filing reports in California and there is no record of a large amount of gold casting scrap being stolen in the US, so I think you made a rather savvy and profitable business transaction.
At this point I knew I was going to make a LOT of money. The feeling was rather intense and must be akin to how someone must feel winning a small lottery or having a great streak of luck at the tables in Vegas.
I immediately called the eBay seller in California and told him "this metal polishes up really nice" and I would like to know how much more he had for sale. He replied that he had about 20 lbs left and would give me a deal if I wanted to purchase it all. I replied that I would send the money as soon as I got home that evening.
Now I was really thrilled, if I took 20 lbs of 16 carat gold to a refinery I would be walking away with somewhere in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million dollars. Unbelievable! I went to the bank and cashed the check. Here is a picture of the top of the pile of cash...
My wife and I spent the whole evening planning what to do with all the money. Invest it? Pay off the mortgage? Take the girls to Disneyland? The possibilities seemed endless.
Right in the middle of all of this day dreaming about what we would do with all this windfall money I saw this text message. It was from my friend that originally bought some of this gold and suggested I take advantage.
The sinking feeling was unmistakably unpleasant. We went to bed that night disappointed that we wouldn’t be seeing any more profits, but thankful we hadn’t sent the money down to our "eBay friend" in California.
The next day I started doing a little research on how [x] Jewelers and the other gold buyer that my friend used could possibly test and certify it as precious metal when it was apparently worthless Chromium Cobalt that sells for about $1.50 a pound on the metal index?
The next day my wife and I started talking about what to do. If we gave the money back we would be out the $650.00, but it didn’t seem right to keep all this $ under the circumstances.
So I proceeded to look up the [x] Jewelers business entity on the Secretary of State website to determine who the owner was. I found the name and called the store and asked for Rick, the owner. They asked who was calling and I gave them my name. Then they asked what it was concerning and I replied that it was a private matter. She was hesitant to let me speak with him and told me she needed some sort of topic to get Rick to take a call of this nature. I replied Please let Rick know I am calling about his potential loss of a lot of money regarding a recent purchase they made. Rick was on the phone with me in less than 10 seconds. I asked Rick if he might be available to speak in person about a recent transaction that appeared questionable and he said he was free all day. I replied that I would be there shortly. I put all the cash in an envelope and headed back there.
When I arrived I asked for Rick, he came out from the back, shook my hand and asked what he could do for me. I requested we go into his office so we might speak privately. He looked at the key coded security door, then back at me and said that was not possible, however we could step outside.
We proceeded outside and I told him the whole story making sure he understood the events in the order they unfolded, showed him the envelope of cash and offered that he might hold the cash until he could get the casting sprues back from his warehouse to be tested. Rick replied that it was not necessary for him to hold on to my money until the metal was tested by his contracted refinery. He mentioned he was genuinely surprised that someone would voluntarily come forward under such circumstances. I replied that my parents must have done something right because I would not feel comfortable keeping all of the money if was indeed found to be non-precious. We chatted for a couple minutes and he told me that he really liked shiny shoes and asked where I got my shoes shined. I agreed with him that shiny shoes were nice and that I shined my own shoes. The conversation went back to gold and he informed me that he doesn’t even like the gold buying side of his business; it was implemented during the beginning of the recession back around 2008 when the credit default swaps in the mortgage sector started the panic. I asked him if he has ever found his testing methods to be a problem and he said in a general sort of way that sometimes he takes losses with this aspect of his business, and in fact he used to use gold acid testing which has been considered more of a standard in the industry, however it was too messy and they did away with it in favor of quicker electronic testing.
We had some more small talk and I then thanked him for his appreciation and added that I didn’t want to lose my initial investment and asked if he might show his appreciation by sharing in my initial loss. I was surprised and taken aback when Rick then changed his tone and said “I’m not sure there isn’t some sort of criminal activity going on here”, I replied that there was supporting documentation of the timeline that removed any doubt that my friend and I learned of the one negative test after our transaction. I also volunteered that I had spoken with a police detective about my concerns of the metal possibly being stolen. This seemed to calm him down a bit but I was put off by his comment. We shook hands and I left with his reassurance that he would contact me as soon as he re-tested the casting sprues.
As I drove home I became angrier with his comment about criminal activity. I shared what transpired with my wife and neither of us could come up with a context behind his language that did not implicate me in some sort of conspiracy. That evening I wrote Rick a detailed email outlining the chain of events along with copies of receipts, emails, shipping labels and time stamped text messages so that he might understand that whatever the outcome of his re-testing my behavior during this transaction was beyond reproach. Rick replied to my email with a simple thank you.
The next day which was a Tuesday, Rick left me a voicemail informing me that he had the metal tested with X-Ray Florescent Spectrometry and the results indicated it was a cobalt alloy.
I returned his call that evening to discuss returning the money. We had a pleasant exchange and compared calendars to determine a convenient time to meet. After deciding the coming Friday was good I again brought up the possibility of sharing in the losses. To my amazement he again changed his colors and went on the attack by raising his voice and adding a touch of hostility. He let me know that in no uncertain terms would he be accepting anything less than the full amount. I attempted to be polite and diffuse what was either bluffing or some sort of explosive intermittent disorder. I then heard what I assume to be his wife in the background making it clear that he would be in the dog house if he didn’t get all of the money back. This must have inspired him to escalate his behavior because he then announced he could not believe I would ask to keep any of his money and that to do so was unethical. I quietly let him get it out of his system until he paused and said “hello?”. I acknowledged that I was still there and he finished by letting me know that I had until 3pm on Friday to return his money. Again he used the words “criminal behavior” and claimed that if all the money was not returned he would “take action”. Then I assume he hung up on me as the line went dead.
The following day I called Detective Mike again and explained that the gold was indeed not stolen; it had been tested further and found to be an alloy of some sort. I explained my voluntarily going down to [x] Jewelers and informing Rick about my friends test results and offering to return the money, my subsequent conversations with Rick and his insinuations about my criminal behavior and ethical condemnation. Detective Mike replied “you see what you get when you do the right thing?” and proceeded to describe Rick as the back side of a donkey. He informed me that Rick was bluffing as there was no intent to defraud on my part, [x] Jewelers tested the gold and I “had him by the balls”. Hilarious, a law enforcement officer with a true sense of humor!
I followed up with another email to Rick letting him know how offended I was by his insinuations of my criminal behavior and unethical requests after all of the facts were laid out. I reminded him the used jewelry and gold buying side of his business is speculative in nature and carries inherent risks; the onus is on him by way of the professional jewelers he employs to value what is brought in. That is, with the exception of fraud which this absolutely positively was NOT. I let him know I thought it was unfortunately he employs precious metal testing methods that are flawed and obviously not trustworthy and I purchased my casting sprues based on two separate tests done by his company under the supervision of jewelers that identify cobalt as gold. I reminded him that just last Monday he volunteered that he take losses on this side of his business all the time and shared that acid testing is just "too messy", an admission that he voluntarily employ less accurate testing measures based the amount of effort it takes to clean up after a test - an interesting business decision.
I included contact information and invited Rick to contact Detective Mike to confirm that in no way have I broken any laws, and while it might not be ethical, I have every legal right to keep ALL the money I was paid by him.
I then added that - that is not the kind of person I am, so I was still willing to come to a compromise and return his money in light of his rude behavior and unwarranted accusations, however an apology was in order.
I received a reply the following day assuring me that I would NOT be receiving an apology as he had nothing to apologize for. He added that in fact he didn’t even intimate that I was involved in criminal activity and gave me three days to definitively tell him if I would return the money or the consequence would be “other options” that he had available.
I responded that there is only one way to interpret describing the course of events as "criminal activity" after I laid all the facts out for him in my email - that he believes there was forethought and intent on my part to pass these casting sprues off as precious metal knowing it was cobalt. It was clear from the context of his remarks and the change in the tone of his voice from polite to angry/hostile that the criminal activity he was referring to was directed at me. I added that the only kind of person that would behave in such a manner is a criminal sociopath with no regard for how their illegal activities affect others (luckily my wife, with her education and degree in psychology assures me that I am indeed not a criminal or a sociopath). In closing I wrote that I would not be letting this go and was still awaiting an apology before I would be taking any further action.
So I am holding the money hostage for an apology. True story, so believe it or not I don't care.
My hope is that someone might COMMENT ON ELECTRONIC GOLD TESTERS PLEASE. I can't believe that after all of this activity on this thread no one has even attempted to reply to the initial question in my original post.
I am a dentist.
I was waiting for my next patient to arrive; the desk I sit at is in a semi finished basement, not uncomfortable but then again not very pretty. I had just finished speaking with a friend and colleague about his recent speculation on precious metals listed on eBay. He was bidding on sprues.
To understand what a sprue is we need to talk about casting jewelry or dental crowns. When you cast a ring or a gold crown you first carve it out in wax. Then you add your wax sprue: a little cylinder and plug like the one showed here on top of the ring. Next, suspend the whole thing in plaster, let it set, turn it upside down and pop it in a 600 Deg. oven to melt out the wax. Pour in molten gold and you get this (left). Once you cut the ring off what you have left over is a sprue.
My friend had bid on a 16oz lot of dental casting sprues; they were white metal which seemed a bit more risky than bidding on gold colored metal. However in dentistry white gold is used for bridges because the nickel used in white gold makes it stronger to withstand long spans of missing teeth.
Over the course of the next few days he updated me on the bidding and it was getting up there close to $200.00. The seller had a 99.6% positive feedback rating which was promising. My friends method for winning a bid is to wait and place his bid with only 5 seconds left; he did this and won the bidding.
I promptly forgot about his adventures in metal speculation until the following week when he told me that I should consider bidding on one of this guys lots as he took his casting sprues around to different gold buyers in the area and made almost 800% profit. His metal tested out differently at the three places he took it to but everyone tested it out as gold.
The next day I spoke with my wife and we decided to place a bid on the next lot. Unfortunately he didn’t have anything listed at that time so I created an eBay account and sent him a message. We finally spoke on the phone and I paid him directly over the internet for several pounds. He shipped the metal USPS and I received it Tuesday, the day after Memorial Day.
It was a dull white metal, but castings even in pure gold are quite dull until they are polished. Where the sprues were cut from their counterparts the metal was of a very shiny luster. I waited in anticipation until Friday when I had an afternoon off and proceeded to [x] jewelers as they had a coupon for a 10% bonus on the gold you bring in.
I showed one of the associates several pieces, she examined it and then used a jewelers file and filed a little off both ends to reveal the brilliant shiny white metal underneath the dull casting surface. She then placed electrodes at both of the spots she polished and recorded the results from the screen on the electronic gold testing computer. It tested out as 16 carat gold! I was elated! I literally struck gold! I calmly asked how much they would be interested in and she replied with a smile “how much do you have?”, I opened my satchel and placed all of the gold on the table, she proceeded to test and every piece she placed between the electrodes came out the same way registering about 16 carat.
After the testing was complete I walked out with a check representing 2100% profit.
I was terribly excited, and quite frankly riddled with anxiety at the same time. My mind was racing as I was driving back up the 205. My initial thought was that I needed to get in touch with my new eBay friend and purchase every last ounce that he might have.
Then it dawned on me, this is just too good to be true, how could someone have so much gold and not know what they have? Perhaps they bought a dental lab from someone with Alzheimer's? Maybe it is being auctioned off from a dental lab bankruptcy? Unlikely, why wouldn’t the eBay seller have the metal tested? After all you can take it to most jewelry stores that buy gold. The only other alternative is that it must have been stolen. Could I have unwittingly gotten myself involved in receiving stolen property? My heart sank, so I took the exit before mine and stopped at the County Sheriffs Office where I got my concealed permit and spoke with Mike, a detective. After explaining the course of events he went up and spoke with his commanding officer. When he returned he smiled and said you know, the internet doesn't really have any police yet, there are no victims filing reports in California and there is no record of a large amount of gold casting scrap being stolen in the US, so I think you made a rather savvy and profitable business transaction.
At this point I knew I was going to make a LOT of money. The feeling was rather intense and must be akin to how someone must feel winning a small lottery or having a great streak of luck at the tables in Vegas.
I immediately called the eBay seller in California and told him "this metal polishes up really nice" and I would like to know how much more he had for sale. He replied that he had about 20 lbs left and would give me a deal if I wanted to purchase it all. I replied that I would send the money as soon as I got home that evening.
Now I was really thrilled, if I took 20 lbs of 16 carat gold to a refinery I would be walking away with somewhere in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million dollars. Unbelievable! I went to the bank and cashed the check. Here is a picture of the top of the pile of cash...
My wife and I spent the whole evening planning what to do with all the money. Invest it? Pay off the mortgage? Take the girls to Disneyland? The possibilities seemed endless.
Right in the middle of all of this day dreaming about what we would do with all this windfall money I saw this text message. It was from my friend that originally bought some of this gold and suggested I take advantage.
The sinking feeling was unmistakably unpleasant. We went to bed that night disappointed that we wouldn’t be seeing any more profits, but thankful we hadn’t sent the money down to our "eBay friend" in California.
The next day I started doing a little research on how [x] Jewelers and the other gold buyer that my friend used could possibly test and certify it as precious metal when it was apparently worthless Chromium Cobalt that sells for about $1.50 a pound on the metal index?
The next day my wife and I started talking about what to do. If we gave the money back we would be out the $650.00, but it didn’t seem right to keep all this $ under the circumstances.
So I proceeded to look up the [x] Jewelers business entity on the Secretary of State website to determine who the owner was. I found the name and called the store and asked for Rick, the owner. They asked who was calling and I gave them my name. Then they asked what it was concerning and I replied that it was a private matter. She was hesitant to let me speak with him and told me she needed some sort of topic to get Rick to take a call of this nature. I replied Please let Rick know I am calling about his potential loss of a lot of money regarding a recent purchase they made. Rick was on the phone with me in less than 10 seconds. I asked Rick if he might be available to speak in person about a recent transaction that appeared questionable and he said he was free all day. I replied that I would be there shortly. I put all the cash in an envelope and headed back there.
When I arrived I asked for Rick, he came out from the back, shook my hand and asked what he could do for me. I requested we go into his office so we might speak privately. He looked at the key coded security door, then back at me and said that was not possible, however we could step outside.
We proceeded outside and I told him the whole story making sure he understood the events in the order they unfolded, showed him the envelope of cash and offered that he might hold the cash until he could get the casting sprues back from his warehouse to be tested. Rick replied that it was not necessary for him to hold on to my money until the metal was tested by his contracted refinery. He mentioned he was genuinely surprised that someone would voluntarily come forward under such circumstances. I replied that my parents must have done something right because I would not feel comfortable keeping all of the money if was indeed found to be non-precious. We chatted for a couple minutes and he told me that he really liked shiny shoes and asked where I got my shoes shined. I agreed with him that shiny shoes were nice and that I shined my own shoes. The conversation went back to gold and he informed me that he doesn’t even like the gold buying side of his business; it was implemented during the beginning of the recession back around 2008 when the credit default swaps in the mortgage sector started the panic. I asked him if he has ever found his testing methods to be a problem and he said in a general sort of way that sometimes he takes losses with this aspect of his business, and in fact he used to use gold acid testing which has been considered more of a standard in the industry, however it was too messy and they did away with it in favor of quicker electronic testing.
We had some more small talk and I then thanked him for his appreciation and added that I didn’t want to lose my initial investment and asked if he might show his appreciation by sharing in my initial loss. I was surprised and taken aback when Rick then changed his tone and said “I’m not sure there isn’t some sort of criminal activity going on here”, I replied that there was supporting documentation of the timeline that removed any doubt that my friend and I learned of the one negative test after our transaction. I also volunteered that I had spoken with a police detective about my concerns of the metal possibly being stolen. This seemed to calm him down a bit but I was put off by his comment. We shook hands and I left with his reassurance that he would contact me as soon as he re-tested the casting sprues.
As I drove home I became angrier with his comment about criminal activity. I shared what transpired with my wife and neither of us could come up with a context behind his language that did not implicate me in some sort of conspiracy. That evening I wrote Rick a detailed email outlining the chain of events along with copies of receipts, emails, shipping labels and time stamped text messages so that he might understand that whatever the outcome of his re-testing my behavior during this transaction was beyond reproach. Rick replied to my email with a simple thank you.
The next day which was a Tuesday, Rick left me a voicemail informing me that he had the metal tested with X-Ray Florescent Spectrometry and the results indicated it was a cobalt alloy.
I returned his call that evening to discuss returning the money. We had a pleasant exchange and compared calendars to determine a convenient time to meet. After deciding the coming Friday was good I again brought up the possibility of sharing in the losses. To my amazement he again changed his colors and went on the attack by raising his voice and adding a touch of hostility. He let me know that in no uncertain terms would he be accepting anything less than the full amount. I attempted to be polite and diffuse what was either bluffing or some sort of explosive intermittent disorder. I then heard what I assume to be his wife in the background making it clear that he would be in the dog house if he didn’t get all of the money back. This must have inspired him to escalate his behavior because he then announced he could not believe I would ask to keep any of his money and that to do so was unethical. I quietly let him get it out of his system until he paused and said “hello?”. I acknowledged that I was still there and he finished by letting me know that I had until 3pm on Friday to return his money. Again he used the words “criminal behavior” and claimed that if all the money was not returned he would “take action”. Then I assume he hung up on me as the line went dead.
The following day I called Detective Mike again and explained that the gold was indeed not stolen; it had been tested further and found to be an alloy of some sort. I explained my voluntarily going down to [x] Jewelers and informing Rick about my friends test results and offering to return the money, my subsequent conversations with Rick and his insinuations about my criminal behavior and ethical condemnation. Detective Mike replied “you see what you get when you do the right thing?” and proceeded to describe Rick as the back side of a donkey. He informed me that Rick was bluffing as there was no intent to defraud on my part, [x] Jewelers tested the gold and I “had him by the balls”. Hilarious, a law enforcement officer with a true sense of humor!
I followed up with another email to Rick letting him know how offended I was by his insinuations of my criminal behavior and unethical requests after all of the facts were laid out. I reminded him the used jewelry and gold buying side of his business is speculative in nature and carries inherent risks; the onus is on him by way of the professional jewelers he employs to value what is brought in. That is, with the exception of fraud which this absolutely positively was NOT. I let him know I thought it was unfortunately he employs precious metal testing methods that are flawed and obviously not trustworthy and I purchased my casting sprues based on two separate tests done by his company under the supervision of jewelers that identify cobalt as gold. I reminded him that just last Monday he volunteered that he take losses on this side of his business all the time and shared that acid testing is just "too messy", an admission that he voluntarily employ less accurate testing measures based the amount of effort it takes to clean up after a test - an interesting business decision.
I included contact information and invited Rick to contact Detective Mike to confirm that in no way have I broken any laws, and while it might not be ethical, I have every legal right to keep ALL the money I was paid by him.
I then added that - that is not the kind of person I am, so I was still willing to come to a compromise and return his money in light of his rude behavior and unwarranted accusations, however an apology was in order.
I received a reply the following day assuring me that I would NOT be receiving an apology as he had nothing to apologize for. He added that in fact he didn’t even intimate that I was involved in criminal activity and gave me three days to definitively tell him if I would return the money or the consequence would be “other options” that he had available.
I responded that there is only one way to interpret describing the course of events as "criminal activity" after I laid all the facts out for him in my email - that he believes there was forethought and intent on my part to pass these casting sprues off as precious metal knowing it was cobalt. It was clear from the context of his remarks and the change in the tone of his voice from polite to angry/hostile that the criminal activity he was referring to was directed at me. I added that the only kind of person that would behave in such a manner is a criminal sociopath with no regard for how their illegal activities affect others (luckily my wife, with her education and degree in psychology assures me that I am indeed not a criminal or a sociopath). In closing I wrote that I would not be letting this go and was still awaiting an apology before I would be taking any further action.
So I am holding the money hostage for an apology. True story, so believe it or not I don't care.
My hope is that someone might COMMENT ON ELECTRONIC GOLD TESTERS PLEASE. I can't believe that after all of this activity on this thread no one has even attempted to reply to the initial question in my original post.
DurkaDigger
Senior Member
Here is what I want back... The last "Ninty" seconds of my life back! I was an investigator for MANY years and your story is bs. Why post a fake check to back up your story? Why not just ask a simple question about the accuracy of that type of instrument without including the amounts and unneeded details?
I will tell you why... The more irrelevant details someone gives up about a story to connivence you, the more chance of it being a lie. The fake check was just a big cherry on top. You didn't bother taking a check that large straight to a bank to be cashed hoping they didn't stop payment? LOL yeah right.......
Maybe you can exchange the fake gold for the fake check and we can have a fake happy ending!
If anyone believes this story please PM me about some bridges I have for sale and I am throwing in an etracs as a bonus to the first 5 buyers! Sorry all sales are final and payment must be made in small unmarked bills. Thanks!
I will tell you why... The more irrelevant details someone gives up about a story to connivence you, the more chance of it being a lie. The fake check was just a big cherry on top. You didn't bother taking a check that large straight to a bank to be cashed hoping they didn't stop payment? LOL yeah right.......
Maybe you can exchange the fake gold for the fake check and we can have a fake happy ending!
If anyone believes this story please PM me about some bridges I have for sale and I am throwing in an etracs as a bonus to the first 5 buyers! Sorry all sales are final and payment must be made in small unmarked bills. Thanks!
