Pic of my Manticore

[Diga]

Your forgetting that the target trace shows ferrous probability too. An "85" doesn't have to land on the non ferrous line. No TID has to land on it. If the 85 TID is all you had to go by, ignoring both TT and tones, you'd have to dig. But TT and tones convey far more information than the TID alone and you can be fairly certain if the 85 TID is ferrous or non-ferrous by looking at the TT and listening to the tones. If you are cherry picking and playing the odds you can safely skip digging many 85 TID signals by listening to the tones and looking at the TT. Indeed, 85 is a common TID for rusty bolts. But they don't sound the same as a good non ferrous 85 and the TT doesn't look the same either. The Target Trace and audio provide more information than the TID. Going by TID alone with the Manticore would be ignoring most of the target information the machine provides.

I dug my last silver ring of the year today and it just happened to be an 85. But a tiny dot on the center line. And 85 being smack between a clad dime and clad quarter, I was "pretty sure" it was going to be a small silver ring - I have found many such with the Manticore. And it was. I did not dig half a dozen other 85's I hit on today that the audio and TT showed almost certainly not non-ferrous. Rusty bolts is the most common non-ferrous 85 with the Manticore in my experience. But they are easily avoided, by not going by TID but rather by audio and TT.

Hi Dave.

I'm not forgetting that that TT shows the ferrous probability. However, that doesn't apply to the nonferrous target scenario I presented. In addition, the ability for TT to show the ferrous / nonferrous probability, isn't exclusive to the Manti. The Legend and D2 have that ability as well.
When I used "85" as an example, 85 was just a number I pulled out of just about nowhere. By 85, I just meant whatever ID something like a high conductor coin would produce on the Manti.

Can you provide a specific and detailed scenario, in which TT changed your dig/no dig decision, in a way that tones and/or TID could not?

 

[Diga]

I've seen you post this many times now. But I'm wondering why you think that the placement of a specific TID on the Target Trace is "vague"? It's quite precise, actually.

- Dave

It's vague, because unlike TID, TT doesn't assign a number to the target. For example, let's say a nonferrous target is alternating between 85 and 86 on the TID. Well, that's very specific identification. TT on the other hand, would show a horizontal oval in the general area of 85 and 86. That "general area" isn't as precise as the assigned two numbers of 85 and 86.

 

[BobOso]

Your forgetting that the target trace shows ferrous probability too. An "85" doesn't have to land on the non ferrous line. No TID has to land on it. If the 85 TID is all you had to go by, ignoring both TT and tones, you'd have to dig. But TT and tones convey far more information than the TID alone and you can be fairly certain if the 85 TID is ferrous or non-ferrous by looking at the TT and listening to the tones. If you are cherry picking and playing the odds you can safely skip digging many 85 TID signals by listening to the tones and looking at the TT. Indeed, 85 is a common TID for rusty bolts. But they don't sound the same as a good non ferrous 85 and the TT doesn't look the same either. The Target Trace and audio provide more information than the TID. Going by TID alone with the Manticore would be ignoring most of the target information the machine provides.

I dug my last silver ring of the year today and it just happened to be an 85. But a tiny dot on the center line. And 85 being smack between a clad dime and clad quarter, I was "pretty sure" it was going to be a small silver ring - I have found many such with the Manticore. And it was. I did not dig half a dozen other 85's I hit on today that the audio and TT showed almost certainly not non-ferrous. Rusty bolts is the most common non-ferrous 85 with the Manticore in my experience. But they are easily avoided, by not going by TID but rather by audio and TT.

View attachment 589318

Total haul for a 2 hour hunt.

View attachment 589319

The only targets dug not shown, were two copper grommets and the bottom screw portion of a light bulb. About 50 coins, a couple pieces of junk bling, a silver ring, a couple keys. Only three trash items. Impossible going by TID alone.

- Dave

well said Dave, I as well also use the tones.

 

[BobOso]

Bob,

You seem to suggest that you dig less trash and more coins with your Manti because of the 2D screen. Is that correct? If so, then given that the 2D is screen is just representing what the TID shows as dots, blobs, etc, then can you give an exact example of how the 2D screen helps you find more coins, compared to using the TID?

I suggest that the 2D screen gives less accurate information than TID. For example, let's say a high conductor coin gives you 85 on the TID as you short wiggle over it. The 2D screen will then show a dot on the nonferrous line in the general area of the high conductor numbers. As such, the TID is more accurate because it assigns an exact number to the target, instead of a dot in the vague area of coins on the nonferrous line of the 2D screen.

As UT-Dave said, you must also use the tones. With the exception of foreign coins, anything worth digging has been on the center line. A peso will not even register unless you use all metal mode. A bolt is usually elongated, large Aluminum and brass has a hollow sound. I have a hard time with low tones and will ignore them, so I changed my nickle to a high tone.

I've owned the nox 800 and know many people like the 50 tones, how they can do that is beyond be as I think it sounds like something out of star wars. I use 5 tones, adjusted to my hearing range, seldom dig bolbs or elongated objects, and I would say with the exception of a clad penny every good object was a steady TDI. I hate clad pennies but will usually dig them because, you never know.

But the game will change if you are a relic hunter, then you dig above and below the center line.

 

[UT_Dave]

Can you provide a specific and detailed scenario, in which TT changed your dig/no dig decision, in a way that tones and/or TID could not?

I did not dig half a dozen other 85's I hit on today that the audio and TT showed almost certainly not non-ferrous.

If you don't believe the TT provides useful information about the target that is not supplied by the TID, I'm not going to try and change your mind. I'm content with just believing otherwise myself.

- Dave

 

[UT_Dave]

TT on the other hand, would show a horizontal oval in the general area of 85 and 86. That "general area" isn't as precise as the assigned two numbers of 85 and 86.

If by "general area" you mean a consistent, repeatable, precise location on the screen then yeah, I get what you're saying .

- Dave

 

[Diga]

If you don't believe the TT provides useful information about the target that is not supplied by the TID, I'm not going to try and change your mind. I'm content with just believing otherwise myself.

- Dave

It's fascinating how so many can assign unique abilities to TT, yet they can't provide a simple example to show how TT changes the dig/no dig decision, in a way that tones and/or TID can not. Or, in a way that other detectors can not (like the FE/CO meter on the D2 and Legend).

 

[Diga]

If by "general area" you mean a consistent, repeatable, precise location on the screen then yeah, I get what you're saying .

- Dave

 

[Diga]

Anything worth digging has been on the center line.

Pull tabs, foil, and aluminum caps will fall on the center line. Are they worth digging?

Can you provide a specific and detailed scenario, in which TT changed your dig/no dig decision, in a way that tones and/or TID could not? Or, in a way that other detectors can not?

 

[UT_Dave]

I don't own the other detectors and I'm not attempting to compare them. Or say anything at all about the others I haven't used. Simply commenting on the Manticore Target Trace screen and how it actually works.

How does ferrous probability alone not fulfill your request for specificity and detail about how TT helps the dig decision? The TID on the Manticore doesn't give nearly as much information on ferrous probability and type as the TT screen.

But I'm not interested in a crusade and won't comment further. Believe what you want - you be you!

- Dave

 

[BobOso]

Pull tabs, foil, and aluminum caps will fall on the center line. Are they worth digging?

Can you provide a specific and detailed scenario, in which TT changed your dig/no dig decision, in a way that tones and/or TID could not? Or, in a way that other detectors can not?

pull tabs usually bounce, but rings hide in the pull tab range, so would you dig.In the next couple of posts, I will put in some pictures from yesterday, and ask yourself, would you dig

 

[BobOso]

would you dig

 

[BobOso]

one more and sorry for the blurred pictures

 

[Diga]

How does ferrous probability alone not fulfill your request for specificity and detail about how TT helps the dig decision? The TID on the Manticore doesn't give nearly as much information on ferrous probability and type as the TT screen.

Technically, it does fulfill the request, but it doesn't in the context I'm referring to.

The ferrous probability information on TT is a valuable tool. I've said so many times. I use the same tool on my Legend to identify iron falsing in a way that TID and tones can not. Anyway, I'm referring to everything else other than iron falsing.

pull tabs usually bounce,

Pulltabs, foil, coins, rings, may or may not bounce, due to all the variables. My point is, you said, "Anything worth digging has been on the center line". Thing is, as long as the nonferrous target (including trash) isn't co-located with iron, then it will fall on the center line. In addition, what you described can be accomplished more accurately using TID.

 

[BobOso]

Technically, it does fulfill the request, but it doesn't in the context I'm referring to.

The ferrous probability information on TT is a valuable tool. I've said so many times. I use the same tool on my Legend to identify iron falsing in a way that TID and tones can not. Anyway, I'm referring to everything else other than iron falsing.





Pulltabs, foil, coins, rings, may or may not bounce, due to all the variables. My point is, you said, "Anything worth digging has been on the center line". Thing is, as long as the nonferrous target (including trash) isn't co-located with iron, then it will fall on the center line. In addition, what you described can be accomplished more accurately using TID.

You just need to stay with what works for you, life is too short to play your game.

 

[Diga]

You just need to stay with what works for you, life is too short to play your game.

I asked you a simple question about the points you were making, but you are unable to answer my simple question.

Your inability to answer a question that is derived from a point you made, is not me "playing a game". It's merely you not being able to prove your point.

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

Bob,

You seem to suggest that you dig less trash and more coins with your Manti because of the 2D screen. Is that correct?

Same here but most of the time I just can't stand it that I might be leaving something good and I go ahead and dig it anyway. Lol 99.9% of the time though the machine is right and I wasted my time. SO YOUR TELLING ME THERE IS A CHANCE???? hahahaha