Nokta makro smf live launch!

[atomicbrh]

I've been to Turkey and have some friends of Turkish extraction, now American citizens. They are from Istanbul (or perhaps Constantinople ). At any rate, they are good folks.

Turkey is a beautiful country with wonderful archaeology. They have what may be the oldest town on Earth there, Çatalhöyük. It isn't far from Konya, seat of the "whirling dervish" Muslim sect. It wouldn't surprise me to learn of older arch sites being found in the area. We also hitchhiked into ancient Troy (The chariots, er, busses weren't running into that area off the highway at that time.).

Turkey is a Muslim country. The West and North parts of Turkey are cosmopolitan and generally enjoy and prefer Western culture. The East and South are more fundamentalist. Historically, there was a lot of interaction between Turkey, the Balkans and Southern Russia, characteristically, military. A large number of slaves were taken by the Ottoman Turks, so there is a fair amount of Russian bloodline to be found there. For instance, Roxelana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurrem_Sultan), described as a stunning redhead and a favorite of Sultan Suleiyman the Magnificent, was of Ruthenian Russian extraction.

That explains it.

 

[markinswpa]

You have a bad coil, or bad software! That just does not happen to me. Seriously! Contact Minelab or try a hard reset or something,, your machine is broke.

Oh no, Trashfinder. I have to agree with these guys, you get a nice soft deep squeak 27-78, dig down 7 or 8 inches only to find a square part of a pull tab. This is not the exception, this happens quite frequently as do copper, pennies high toning and coming in the 30s. I have 2 800s, use them both. I used the 15in. now sold the stock the 6 in and the 10x5. The 6 and 10x5 make rusty iron and nails sound great and small chunks of aluminum, you think you have a great target under your coil only to dig junk. End of the day, the stock coil wins Imo .If the Nokta can remedy these things, which I doubt I would buy one in a heartbeat. I do like my Equinox but not brand loyal. Nothing wrong with their machines. Minelab just needs to work out the glitches. Incidently. I got my first 800 2-28-18. In less than 2 months I sent it back. Nickels were Iding at 22-24. And yes I checked and rechecked for any surrounding targets and there were none. Since I've learned the Equinox acts up now and then and I've accepted it and work around it but it definitely has issues. Hopefully in the next version a lot of this will be dealt with, if not, someone will.

 

[Trashfinder]

Oh no, Trashfinder. I have to agree with these guys, you get a nice soft deep squeak 27-78, dig down 7 or 8 inches only to find a square part of a pull tab. This is not the exception, this happens quite frequently as do copper, pennies high toning and coming in the 30s. I have 2 800s, use them both. I used the 15in. now sold the stock the 6 in and the 10x5. The 6 and 10x5 make rusty iron and nails sound great and small chunks of aluminum, you think you have a great target under your coil only to dig junk. End of the day, the stock coil wins Imo .If the Nokta can remedy these things, which I doubt I would buy one in a heartbeat. I do like my Equinox but not brand loyal. Nothing wrong with their machines. Minelab just needs to work out the glitches. Incidently. I got my first 800 2-28-18. In less than 2 months I sent it back. Nickels were Iding at 22-24. And yes I checked and rechecked for any surrounding targets and there were none. Since I've learned the Equinox acts up now and then and I've accepted it and work around it but it definitely has issues. Hopefully in the next version a lot of this will be dealt with, if not, someone will.

You guys have broke machines, mine has never done what you guys talk about. But i never upgraded my software from ver 1.75 maybe that is what your problems are?? No idea but i give you my word mine has never done any of the things you guys talk about ever. Since i got mine, one of the first to come out by the way, nickels are 12-13, indians 19-20, wheats 23-25, silver dimes 26-27,, silver qtrs 28-30

It just does not vary with my machine period. I guess i have a GOOD ONE! I have no intention of selling it either.

 

[Trashfinder]

Oh no, Trashfinder. I have to agree with these guys, you get a nice soft deep squeak 27-78, dig down 7 or 8 inches only to find a square part of a pull tab. This is not the exception, this happens quite frequently as do copper, pennies high toning and coming in the 30s. I have 2 800s, use them both. I used the 15in. now sold the stock the 6 in and the 10x5. The 6 and 10x5 make rusty iron and nails sound great and small chunks of aluminum, you think you have a great target under your coil only to dig junk. End of the day, the stock coil wins Imo .If the Nokta can remedy these things, which I doubt I would buy one in a heartbeat. I do like my Equinox but not brand loyal. Nothing wrong with their machines. Minelab just needs to work out the glitches. Incidently. I got my first 800 2-28-18. In less than 2 months I sent it back. Nickels were Iding at 22-24. And yes I checked and rechecked for any surrounding targets and there were none. Since I've learned the Equinox acts up now and then and I've accepted it and work around it but it definitely has issues. Hopefully in the next version a lot of this will be dealt with, if not, someone will.

Since you have 2 of them ,, how about taking one of them back to the version of software where they fixed park 1 to tone when a coin on edge is the target. I would like to know if it is just my software ver or if you guys machines are seriously broken. Then put some time in on it and let me know if you still experience the craziness you guys are talking about.

 

[goldendreams]

You have a bad coil, or bad software! That just does not happen to me. Seriously! Contact Minelab or try a hard reset or something,, your machine is broke.

Machine is fine ..(as it gets anyway)
As far as factory reset goes, I'm about the only one I know who resets after every coil change ...and thats cuz I hunt with nothing discd out..and I don't have redo any disc patterns ..I've been meaning to put the stock coil back on to go to a pretty clean school ..cuz it's been a while since I've used it ..

 

[Redwaller]

So let me get this straight? The Nox gets software updates, and no one has actually tried to open up whatever files are being put onto the detector in one of these updates, and tried to mess around with it, make their own custom version? Because for me at least, that's like the first thing I'd try to do - I've never, ever believed I couldn't improve something, no matter how complicated or well made it might be. All this talk of the different Minelab-made updates made me wonder about all this, I guess.

 

[mh9162013]

So let me get this straight? The Nox gets software updates, and no one has actually tried to open up whatever files are being put onto the detector in one of these updates, and tried to mess around with it, make their own custom version? Because for me at least, that's like the first thing I'd try to do - I've never, ever believed I couldn't improve something, no matter how complicated or well made it might be. All this talk of the different Minelab-made updates made me wonder about all this, I guess.

As far as I know, that answer is "no." I'm guessing there are several potentional reasons as to why.

One, most of us detectorists don't care enough about the guts of the software to take a peek.

Two, most of us aren't savvy enough to understand what we're looking at if we gained access to the software code of the Equinox or Vanquish.

Three, even if we could understand the code, I question whether any of us have the skills and/or perserverence to crack any of the protections in place. I remember reading about theories that the only difference between the Equinox 600 and 800 is the software. I dunno if this is true, as I imagine Minelab has some difference in the electronics of the Equinox 800 and the 600 that allows the 800's software to run. Although, there could be some hack to get around this limitation. But even if it's possible, it won't be easy. Imagine what much money Minelab would lose if some easy hack floated online that turned any Equinox 600 into an Equinox 800.

Four, any incursion into the software of the Equinox or Vanquish could be detected by Minelab when trying to take advantage of the warranty. For example, the installation of non-sanctioned software in either machine might be discovered if you send in your machine for repair. At best, it means they don't make the repairs and make you pay the cost of shipping to get your machine back. At worst, Minelab refuses to return your machine or sues you in civil court for violations of IP laws.*

*This isn't that farfetched. John Deere has already tried arguing that it's a violation of the DMCA when someone tries to modify the sofware put into the John Deere machines.

 

[woodbutcher]

Oh no, Trashfinder. I have to agree with these guys, you get a nice soft deep squeak 27-78, dig down 7 or 8 inches only to find a square part of a pull tab. This is not the exception, this happens quite frequently as do copper, pennies high toning and coming in the 30s. I have 2 800s, use them both. I used the 15in. now sold the stock the 6 in and the 10x5. The 6 and 10x5 make rusty iron and nails sound great and small chunks of aluminum, you think you have a great target under your coil only to dig junk. End of the day, the stock coil wins Imo .If the Nokta can remedy these things, which I doubt I would buy one in a heartbeat. I do like my Equinox but not brand loyal. Nothing wrong with their machines. Minelab just needs to work out the glitches. Incidently. I got my first 800 2-28-18. In less than 2 months I sent it back. Nickels were Iding at 22-24. And yes I checked and rechecked for any surrounding targets and there were none. Since I've learned the Equinox acts up now and then and I've accepted it and work around it but it definitely has issues. Hopefully in the next version a lot of this will be dealt with, if not, someone will.

You are 100 % correct Mark,I've had the same experience with multiple equinox machines. But,like you I came to just deal with the shortcomings cause it is a really good machine where you can use ut

 

[Redwaller]

As far as I know, that answer is "no." I'm guessing there are several potentional reasons as to why.

One, most of us detectorists don't care enough about the guts of the software to take a peek.

Two, most of us aren't savvy enough to understand what we're looking at if we gained access to the software code of the Equinox or Vanquish.

Three, even if we could understand the code, I question whether any of us have the skills and/or perserverence to crack any of the protections in place. I remember reading about theories that the only difference between the Equinox 600 and 800 is the software. I dunno if this is true, as I imagine Minelab has some difference in the electronics of the Equinox 800 and the 600 that allows the 800's software to run. Although, there could be some hack to get around this limitation. But even if it's possible, it won't be easy. Imagine what much money Minelab would lose if some easy hack floated online that turned any Equinox 600 into an Equinox 800.

Four, any incursion into the software of the Equinox or Vanquish could be detected by Minelab when trying to take advantage of the warranty. For example, the installation of non-sanctioned software in either machine might be discovered if you send in your machine for repair. At best, it means they don't make the repairs and make you pay the cost of shipping to get your machine back. At worst, Minelab refuses to return your machine or sues you in civil court for violations of IP laws.*

*This isn't that farfetched. John Deere has already tried arguing that it's a violation of the DMCA when someone tries to modify the sofware put into the John Deere machines.

Excellent reply, thank you. Do you know if John Deere actually succeeded in that argument? I could understand if, for example, one were to distribute a hack to make an equinox 600 into an 800, why that would merit a lawsuit, but as the article you linked argues, it's crazy to say that people can't modify their own stuff so long as they don't distribute it.

As for whether or not the Equinox 600 only differs from the 800 in software:
I'll ask the following question: does an equinox 600's coil work on an equinox 800 the same as the 800's original coil does? If yes, then it's entirely possible that yeah, they are only different in software. Note, if the coils aren't compatible the rest of this probably doesn't apply.However, if Minelab was smart, (which let's face it they probably are) they would have put some kind of failsafe in to prevent you from just installing the 800 software into a 600. Looking at the page on Minelab's website it's pretty clear that they have done this. Transfer of files onto the Equinox is done by a proprietary program (analogous to how you can only add music onto an iPod using iTunes) and there's some other tidbits in the instructions of note: The Equinox has to be turned on (could simply be required technically to do the update, or as a way of checking which detector it is) and the coil has to be connected (it's possible the coil itself can be updated, or this is a way of telling which detector it is), and finally, the instructions mention that the program used to update the Equinox, has a way of identifying the Equinox plugged into it. This is likely through some kind of internal identification number given to every equinox, that likely isn't easy to modify, if at all possible. So in other words, there's no way to simply trick Minelab's program into turning your 600 into an 800, if that even can be done. Anyone trying to modify the programming of their Equinox would need to reverse engineer quite a bit to be able to change anything. Given that Minelab could add 4 kHz in an update, I think it's pretty likely that yeah, the Equinox 600 and 800 are identical except for software. I've found nothing that would make it entirely impossible to turn your 600 into an 800 (or into anything else), but the amount of work required to do so would outweigh any cost savings.

 

[mh9162013]

Excellent reply, thank you. Do you know if John Deere actually succeeded in that argument? I could understand if, for example, one were to distribute a hack to make an equinox 600 into an 800, why that would merit a lawsuit, but as the article you linked argues, it's crazy to say that people can't modify their own stuff so long as they don't distribute it.

As for whether or not the Equinox 600 only differs from the 800 in software:
I'll ask the following question: does an equinox 600's coil work on an equinox 800 the same as the 800's original coil does? If yes, then it's entirely possible that yeah, they are only different in software. Note, if the coils aren't compatible the rest of this probably doesn't apply.However, if Minelab was smart, (which let's face it they probably are) they would have put some kind of failsafe in to prevent you from just installing the 800 software into a 600. Looking at the page on Minelab's website it's pretty clear that they have done this. Transfer of files onto the Equinox is done by a proprietary program (analogous to how you can only add music onto an iPod using iTunes) and there's some other tidbits in the instructions of note: The Equinox has to be turned on (could simply be required technically to do the update, or as a way of checking which detector it is) and the coil has to be connected (it's possible the coil itself can be updated, or this is a way of telling which detector it is), and finally, the instructions mention that the program used to update the Equinox, has a way of identifying the Equinox plugged into it. This is likely through some kind of internal identification number given to every equinox, that likely isn't easy to modify, if at all possible. So in other words, there's no way to simply trick Minelab's program into turning your 600 into an 800, if that even can be done. Anyone trying to modify the programming of their Equinox would need to reverse engineer quite a bit to be able to change anything. Given that Minelab could add 4 kHz in an update, I think it's pretty likely that yeah, the Equinox 600 and 800 are identical except for software. I've found nothing that would make it entirely impossible to turn your 600 into an 800 (or into anything else), but the amount of work required to do so would outweigh any cost savings.

I believe the coils are compatible b/w the 600 and 800.

I think you're right, if adding software to turn a 600 into an 800 were possible, it would take a lot of work to do and probably wouldn't be worth it for the average "hacker."

And no, I don't think John Deere was successful in its argument. I think the issue was whether an exception would apply to the DMCA and John Deere lost that argument (thankfully). I think it's disgusting how they operate and if I found out Minelab operated like that, I would remove any piece of Minelab or Codan property from my possession.

It's one thing to condition warranty coverage on leaving a company's software or hardware alone. It's another to ask for any tinkering (and not distribution or profiting) to be against the law.

The problem is that there aren't many people who care about these things. So companies can get away with it until some story goes viral. As Lord Beckett from Pirates of the Caribean once said,

"People are what they love. And what they love...is cargo. They love spices, and linens, and silks, and plantains. And as long as it is delivered on time and in sufficient supply, they are content to be nothing more than figures on a ledger.”

So as long as people get their new phones, tablets and access to social media to fulfill their "look at me compulsions" they don't care what rights or privileges they give up.

 

[atomicbrh]

You guys have broke machines, mine has never done what you guys talk about. But i never upgraded my software from ver 1.75 maybe that is what your problems are?? No idea but i give you my word mine has never done any of the things you guys talk about ever. Since i got mine, one of the first to come out by the way, nickels are 12-13, indians 19-20, wheats 23-25, silver dimes 26-27,, silver qtrs 28-30

It just does not vary with my machine period. I guess i have a GOOD ONE! I have no intention of selling it either.

Our numbers with both a 340 and an 800 with the new software update are almost identical.

 

[Trashfinder]

Machine is fine ..(as it gets anyway)
As far as factory reset goes, I'm about the only one I know who resets after every coil change ...and thats cuz I hunt with nothing discd out..and I don't have redo any disc patterns ..I've been meaning to put the stock coil back on to go to a pretty clean school ..cuz it's been a while since I've used it ..

All i can tell you is we have two very very different machines then. I would sell mine if i had the problems you guys talk about, I have many other machines I would use if I had to deal with all the issues you guys report.

 

[mh9162013]

You guys have broke machines, mine has never done what you guys talk about. But i never upgraded my software from ver 1.75 maybe that is what your problems are?? No idea but i give you my word mine has never done any of the things you guys talk about ever. Since i got mine, one of the first to come out by the way, nickels are 12-13, indians 19-20, wheats 23-25, silver dimes 26-27,, silver qtrs 28-30

It just does not vary with my machine period. I guess i have a GOOD ONE! I have no intention of selling it either.

I get similar numbers as you. Whether it was my old 540, my current 340 or my current Equinox 600, I've never had issues with the skewed VDIs that others are reporting. And I know my Equinox 600 has been updated, as it has the 4khz single frequency option.

 

[Trashfinder]

I get similar numbers as you. Whether it was my old 540, my current 340 or my current Equinox 600, I've never had issues with the skewed VDIs that others are reporting. And I know my Equinox 600 has been updated, as it has the 4khz single frequency option.

I really didn't think it was the updates , but man what they say is night and day from my machine, so I have no idea what they are talking about. I believe them but I would like to get to the bottom of what is really going on with their machines, because compared to mine theirs are truly broken somehow.

 

[mh9162013]

I really didn't think it was the updates , but man what they say is night and day from my machine, so I have no idea what they are talking about. I believe them but I would like to get to the bottom of what is really going on with their machines, because compared to mine theirs are truly broken somehow.

I hear ya. I believe them too, but what's happening with their readings just has me scratching my head.

My initial thought was related to ground balancing, but the Vanquish machines can't ground balance, so that's not it...

 

[longbow62]

I've got 2 Equinox's. Stock coil stays on one while the other wears either the 6" or 10"x5". While I have had what I would call minor I.D. discrepancies with both smaller coils nothing close to bordering on calling a pulltab a dime. I don't dig bottle caps either. I personally think if a person could only have one detector the Equinox 800 is the one to have. I run the latest software on both no issues.

As far as the Legend goes I'm open minded, but why do people think a company that has never brought a SMF machine to market can expect them to put out a machine that will surpass the SMF detectors made by a company that has been doing it for over a decade?

Please tell me why you would think this is possible.

 

[mh9162013]

I've got 2 Equinox's. Stock coil stays on one while the other wears either the 6" or 10"x5". While I have had what I would call minor I.D. discrepancies with both smaller coils nothing close to bordering on calling a pulltab a dime. I don't dig bottle caps either. I personally think if a person could only have one detector the Equinox 800 is the one to have. I run the latest software on both no issues.

As far as the Legend goes I'm open minded, but why do people think a company that has never brought a SMF machine to market can expect them to put out a machine that will surpass the SMF detectors made by a company that has been doing it for over a decade?

Please tell me why you would think this is possible.

Because N/M could rely on information and mistakes from those before them.

I'm sure N/M did its own R&D, but not having to start from scratch is a big advantage...at least financially.

If I had to guess, I'd say the Legend's performance exceeds the Apex, but doesn't quite reach the Equinox's level.

 

[markinswpa]

Since you have 2 of them ,, how about taking one of them back to the version of software where they fixed park 1 to tone when a coin on edge is the target. I would like to know if it is just my software ver or if you guys machines are seriously broken. Then put some time in on it and let me know if you still experience the craziness you guys are talking about.

Trashfinder I had the original software when my first 800 started acting up and the replacement as well. In air tests the machines seem pretty normal, an Ihp 19-20 a wheat 22-23 mem. 24-25 dime 26-27-28 a quarter 29-30-31 and a half 34-35. When the targets are in the ground, Id is a !!!! shoot, particularly with wheats and memorials Iding in the thirties, even the high 30s and this happen quite often. When I got the replacement 4-2018 I remember the first mis-id I had. A nice soft stand alone 34-35 in three directions, didn't bother to check the fourth, I thought for sure a silver quarter or half. Moist, dark topsoil. Around 7 inched down out comes a nice green wheatie. I was thinking whats up with this. For the first year or so I used default Park 2 in 5 tone. I bought the second in 2019. Both are updated, and coil size doesn't seem to matter. Since fall of 19 I use a custom Field 2 program. I have watched youtube videos of guys hunting with the 800 and they encounter the same problem. It does get frustrating, especially when you are trying to be selective on what targets to dig. One thing I have learned when I do get a hightone in the 30s. If I massage the signal a little the # will drop down to their respective #s. If its silver the #s will be stable or climb one or two numbers. The other day I dug a 1906 Ihp, shallow and the #s were bouncing from 22 to 26. I thought it was a memorial for sure. Telling a memorial from a clad (and sometimes silver ) dime id damn near impossible. They come ring up all through the 20s and 30s. My thoughts, maybe the soil we hunt i'm not sure. The Equinox is great at finding coins, not so much on depth or iding. Another thing the depth capabilities everybody raves about, don't see that either. Rare to dig a coin over 8 inches here. Most deep signals are larger pieces of junk. Maybe this new Makro will do a better job, I doubt it but if it does I'll plop my money down. Good luck, Mark

 

[Trashfinder]

Trashfinder I had the original software when my first 800 started acting up and the replacement as well. In air tests the machines seem pretty normal, an Ihp 19-20 a wheat 22-23 mem. 24-25 dime 26-27-28 a quarter 29-30-31 and a half 34-35. When the targets are in the ground, Id is a !!!! shoot, particularly with wheats and memorials Iding in the thirties, even the high 30s and this happen quite often. When I got the replacement 4-2018 I remember the first mis-id I had. A nice soft stand alone 34-35 in three directions, didn't bother to check the fourth, I thought for sure a silver quarter or half. Moist, dark topsoil. Around 7 inched down out comes a nice green wheatie. I was thinking whats up with this. For the first year or so I used default Park 2 in 5 tone. I bought the second in 2019. Both are updated, and coil size doesn't seem to matter. Since fall of 19 I use a custom Field 2 program. I have watched youtube videos of guys hunting with the 800 and they encounter the same problem. It does get frustrating, especially when you are trying to be selective on what targets to dig. One thing I have learned when I do get a hightone in the 30s. If I massage the signal a little the # will drop down to their respective #s. If its silver the #s will be stable or climb one or two numbers. The other day I dug a 1906 Ihp, shallow and the #s were bouncing from 22 to 26. I thought it was a memorial for sure. Telling a memorial from a clad (and sometimes silver ) dime id damn near impossible. They come ring up all through the 20s and 30s. My thoughts, maybe the soil we hunt i'm not sure. The Equinox is great at finding coins, not so much on depth or iding. Another thing the depth capabilities everybody raves about, don't see that either. Rare to dig a coin over 8 inches here. Most deep signals are larger pieces of junk. Maybe this new Makro will do a better job, I doubt it but if it does I'll plop my money down. Good luck, Mark

Just crazy! Here is how mine works. I get a jumpy 23, after investigating in many directions it is somewhat repeatable and i know my machine good enough to know something is there. After cutting the initial plug at seven inches with my shovel I put my pin pointer in the hole and it beeps constantly like something big in the hole. I recover 3 nails , then I am thinking maybe just maybe there is nothing there. Sweep the hole with detector again and yep still there. I recover 2 more nails and think ya it's nothing. Sweep the machine again and it is much better this time. I recover one more nail for a total of 6 (my record so far for nails and a coin) then i finally find the the green wheatie. I am just continually amazed at how this machine can find coins amongst so much iron and with a fairly good ID number as well! I do this all the time , not always with that many nails in one plug. Then when I read you guys posts , honestly I am blown away that you guys machines are not functioning like mine, I just figured they were all the same? You have probably seen me posting how my NOX is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I honestly think if everyone had one as good as mine they would too. Is it something I am doing in my setup? My version? Or? I have no idea but I can assure you that is how mine has been working since I bought it. I would be happy to work with anybody having problems to try to solve what the heck is wrong with you guys crappy NOX's as I am very curious to what the real problem might be.

 

[PAslawslayer]

Remember that new Nokta makro machine this thread was about


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