My thoughts on the Minelab Manticore

[Diga]

Well.
For one a higher reading target like a fruit jar lid. Would likely give a bigger dot. Bigger than a quarter. You want to dig quarters or fruit jar lids? Hmmm

Are you talking about the opacity based on the signal strength? If not, what exactly are you suggesting that determines the size of that dot?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Another thing trace on Manticore allows is the following…..
I can run Manticore with horse shoe off meaning no iron tone. Yet I can detect a target. At a glance I can see if there is any iron trace in meter. If I saw some ironferrous) in meter trace this may lead me to question ID target accuracy yielded via detector meter. You can’t do this with EQX, And a lot of other detectors. You have to run iron tone on. Sometimes iron tone on can be very tiring to one ears. More audio traffic coming to one’s ears.

How about that a silent iron tone on a detector….hmm

Btw.
Manticore trace can give data on real short clipped tones. Whereas trace tries to paint in a direction reflective in general to conduct pity of target. This short clipped audio without the trace a user may blow right by thinking nothing there but iron. While testing Manticore for Minelab. This happened to me actually. I blew by a target with clipped audio. Went back to site and after getting wise to what Manticore was telling me out popped s silver dime. And another btw, Manticore does better here on such detecting scenarios run slower not faster. Goes for M8 coil as well. This is not to day a user can locate a suspicious scenario using faster speed with clipped audio or hokey audio and change speed to slower speed and resweep. Trace may expose situation lot better. Been there and done this boatloads while testing detecting in the wild.

 

[Diga]

RH,

I watched the first few minutes of your video. Is your point all about the ability of TT to show the ferrous and nonferrous regardless of the discrimination level?

If so, I never denied that. I've mentioned previously that TT has that ability. I just didn't see that as anything special, because the D2 and Legend can do that as well.

If that wasn't your point, then let me know, and I'll watch the rest of the video

 

[Diga]

Another thing trace on Manticore allows is the following…..
I can run Manticore with horse shoe off meaning no iron tone. Yet I can detect a target. At a glance I can see if there is any iron trace in meter. If I saw some ironferrous) in meter trace this may lead me to question ID target accuracy yielded via detector meter. You can’t do this with EQX, And a lot of other detectors. You have to run iron tone on. Sometimes iron tone on can be very tiring to one ears. More audio traffic coming to one’s ears.

How about that a silent iron tone on a detector….hmm

The Legend also shows the ferrous and nonferrous content, with its FE/CO meter, and does so regardless of discrimination or iron volume. Does the D2 not do that as well with it's FE/CO meter?

 

[Rasyfromwayupnorth]

You failed to watch entire video.
You see smear (elongated trace) - could suggest collocated target.
And user could rotate and check varying coil position sweeping.
With EQX, Legend, Deus 2, and many other models you don’t get the clue possible collocation exist..
ID of scenario in video was not giving high conductive coin range yet clad dime was present.
So knowing how ID presented can be skewed due to collocation, user of Manticore can at times get the clue to be suspicious. You won’t get this info with the other models.

Now, here’s a question.
Could I perhaps use notch to find the high conductor in the video using manticore?
Perhaps. The problem is I don’t know what detecting scenario I could be suspected to. Meaning I wouldn’t know necessarily where to set notch or even tone breaks. Due to different conductivity of different objects.
And if I could do a tone break or notch setting - I may be able to get audio but it could be severely clipped making it hard to hear.

Truth be told, this when targets (target scenarios) are displayed more in middle of screen yet show an elongated trace - what I am showing in video is actually one of the best uses of the trace presentation.

Another use btw, is exceeding large nonferrous shallow. User can get so:e benefits here too. This though assumes not may silver dollars out there lying around shallow. Can tops, fruit jar kids reading higher .I.d can be spotted quick lots of times with big ole trace in screen. I saw this the other day in a site where old store use to set using
Manticore 11” coil.

Also remember there can be smearing of trace in the vertical too.

I was watching a video about this guy who was detecting only "iffy" signals. If I well remember the title may have been related to iffy and deep signals (something like that). The guy was concentrating on the iffy signals, and dug several silver coins (dimes, one Barber quarter, plus several wheat cents), every one of them with nails and other pieces of iron in the hole. He would also point-out how the ID trace was looking on the screen, plus saying that while the iron was being rejected, something in the high tone of the signal was telling him the possibility of a good target next to iron. If I find the video I will post it here.

Here it goes:

 

[Rattlehead]

RH,

I watched the first few minutes of your video. Is your point all about the ability of TT to show the ferrous and nonferrous regardless of the discrimination level?

If so, I never denied that. I've mentioned previously that TT has that ability. I just didn't see that as anything special, because the D2 and Legend can do that as well.

If that wasn't your point, then let me know, and I'll watch the rest of the video

No, both the Deus and Legend can do that with the horseshoe or Fe/Co meter. They simply show that the target has iron nearby with a blended or jumpy ID.

I hunt a lot of public spots that have already been hammered for years, and enjoy the challenge of picking out those last remaining tough targets. To do that, I want all of the available info I can get. I would never base my dig/don’t dig decision on TT alone, however, it’s another useful bit of information. For me, it’s tone first. Then if something catches my attention, I use other available info to help me decide whether or not I want to dig. TT is useful in that it can help the user see when a good target is mixed in with iron, or any other target of higher or lower conductivity by actually plotting a trace of the two targets. Can you get the same info from watching an ID bounce around erratically? Maybe. I can’t. Is it something I would use all the time or watch constantly? No. Has it helped me make up my mind to dig what turned out to be silver commingled with iron or other junk? Yes, several times.

Basically , it’s just another tid-bit of information for the user. I wouldn’t buy a Manticore for that feature alone, but I’ll gladly take all the pre-dig info I can get.

 

[Rattlehead]

I was watching a video about this guy who was detecting only "iffy" signals. If I well remember the title may have been related to iffy and deep signals (something like that). The guy was concentrating on the iffy signals, and dug several silver coins (dimes, one Barber quarter, plus several wheat cents), every one of them with nails and other pieces of iron in the hole. He would also point-out how the ID trace was looking on the screen, plus saying that while the iron was being rejected, something in the high tone of the signal was telling him the possibility of a good target next to iron. If I find the video I will post it here.

Here it goes:

I know that guy. He’s an asshole.

 

[Diga]

No, both the Deus and Legend can do that. They simply show that the target has iron nearby with a blended or jumpy ID.

In your video, you get signals with a high tone, high coin ID, and some ferrous showing on TT. The Legend and the D2 would also have produced a high tone, high ID, and shown some ferrous on their FE/CO meters. Even without TT, or without the Legend's and D2's FE/CO meter, anyone would have dug those signals, because of the high tone and high ID. In other words, in the scenarios in your video, TT didn't help in your dig / no dig decision.

Beauty plugs by the way

 

[Rattlehead]

In your video, you get signals with a high tone, high coin ID, and some ferrous showing on TT. The Legend and the D2 would also have produced a high tone, high ID, and shown some ferrous on their FE/CO meters. Even without TT, or without the Legend's and D2's FE/CO meter, anyone would have dug those signals, because of the high tone and high ID. In other words, in the scenarios in your video, TT didn't help in your dig / no dig decision.

Beauty plugs by the way

This is a difference of opinion.

I notice you have doubts about the capabilities of several detectors. The Deus 2’s descriptive audio, the usefulness of the Manticore’s TT, etc. Nothing wrong with that. However, before boldly declaring something to be true or false, you really should try out the machines in question if you don’t want to take the word of those who have experience with them. Maybe a hunting buddy or someone who could loan them for a while? I don’t mean that to sound disrespectful. Just saying that you might actually see the benefits first hand. If not, then you have your own evidence to back up your opinion rather than insisting that everyone else provide the proof.

 

[Diga]

This is a difference of opinion.

I notice you have doubts about the capabilities of several detectors. The Deus 2’s descriptive audio, the usefulness of the Manticore’s TT, etc. Nothing wrong with that. However, before boldly declaring something to be true or false, you really should try out the machines in question if you don’t want to take the word of those who have experience with them. Maybe a hunting buddy or someone who could loan them for a while? I don’t mean that to sound disrespectful. Just saying that you might actually see the benefits first hand. If not, then you have your own evidence to back up your opinion rather than insisting that everyone else provide the proof.

Now you're getting into irrelevant tangents, that have nothing to do with my point.

If some are so certain and adamant about TT's advantage, then they should be able to easily describe a scenario in which it changes the dig/no dig decision, in a way that TID or tones can't do. Yet, that hasn't happened. If it ever does happen, I'll buy a Manticore immediately.

 

[Rattlehead]

Now you're getting into irrelevant tangents, that have nothing to do with my point.

If some are so certain and adamant about TT's advantage, then they should be able to easily describe a scenario in which it changes the dig/no dig decision, in a way that TID or tones can't do. Yet, that hasn't happened. Although, if it ever does, I'll buy a Manticore immediately.

And this has nothing to do with my point, which is that in my opinion TT can be useful. It has been useful to me, and that’s a fact. I say this based off of actual experience. You asked a question and I answered to the best of my ability. I honestly don’t care if you buy a Manticore and I have no desire to prove anything to you.

 

[jmaclen]

Now you're getting into irrelevant tangents, that have nothing to do with my point.

If some are so certain and adamant about TT's advantage, then they should be able to easily describe a scenario in which it changes the dig/no dig decision, in a way that TID or tones can't do. Yet, that hasn't happened. If it ever does, I'll buy a Manticore immediately.

How about some photos.......
First some photos of the Manticore, Legend and Deus 2 screens depicting EMI since that is one of your favorite topics:

Now here are some photos of Manticore, Legend and Deus 2 (horseshoe and XY screens) swinging over this target scenario:

Which detector's screen is clearly showing co-located targets without any extra help from Fe/NF meters, target IDs or audio responses?

 

[Diga]

I have no desire to prove anything to you.

If you have no desire to prove your assertion, then why do you keep trying to?

 

[Diga]

Jeff,

I can't answer your question, because it lacks required information. For example, when swinging over a nail and a nickel, the identifiers can change, but you show 1 point in time with pictures. With a picture, I can't see how the TID is changing and responding. Plus, try as I might for the last couple of minutes, I can't hear the tones by looking at a picture

With your Manticore, when you swing back and forth over the nail and coin, what does the TID show if no discrimination is used, and what are the tones, if the iron volume is on? If you do that, do you get both a ferrous and nonferrous tone and/or a ferrous and nonferrous TID? If so, then how does TT change your dig decision, compared to the alternating ferrous / nonferrous, tones and TID?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I posted another video for you Digalicious. On the subject.

 

[Diga]

I posted another video for you Digalicious. On the subject.

Ok thanks. I'll check it out as soon as I have time

 

[jmaclen]

So, how is seeing that smear, going to change my dig/no dig decision,

These snapshots show how these detectors are dealing with a form of the "down the barrel" scenario memorialized by Monte Berry, God bless him.

There is no detector available at the moment other than the Manticore that can visually show two or even more targets at one instance in time on its display that I know of.

The Legend and Deus 2 snapshots show confused detectors that are giving polar opposite responses....Legend with an in the ballpark 28 for a US nickel and simultaneously full bars iron target identification on the Ferro Check meter and Deus 2 showing an in the ballpark 67 with both the ferrous and non-ferrous sides of the horseshoe graph trying to light up.

So, how is seeing the Manticore's two distinctly separate "smears" going to change my dig/no dig decision as opposed to very conflicting information coming from the Legend and Deus 2?

The answer is easy. Don't be so dense.

 

[Diga]

Ah yes, Jeff. Your true colors are showing again.

It started with your veiled insult about EMI, and now with the "dense" comment. You often insult others, when debating with others. Over the last couple of years, I've seen you do that many times, and I've seen you eventually apologize to those people. If you can't have a debate without getting your emotions involved and insulting others, then maybe refrain from debate until you can do so.

Anyway...

With your Manticore, when you swing back and forth over the nail and coin, what does the TID show if no discrimination is used, and what are the tones, if the iron volume is on? If you do that, do you get both a ferrous and nonferrous tone and/or a ferrous and nonferrous TID? If so, then how does TT change your dig decision, compared to the alternating ferrous / nonferrous, tones and TID?

 

[jmaclen]

Thanks for trolling the Manticore and Rattlehead’s excellent postings about it.

 

[sube]

There is no detector available at the moment other than the Manticore that can visually show two or even more targets at one instance in time on its display that I know of.

CTX don't know if at the exact time but will show many targets on the screen . You have to remember the CTX uses 2 cursors .sube