My thoughts on the Minelab Manticore

[Martin_V3i]

It is these perfect small, round dots right on the conductance line display that gives trash that confuses me. It does it a lot too.

 

[Diga]

It is these perfect small, round dots right on the conductance line display that gives trash that confuses me. It does it a lot too.

Serious question Martin: Why do you find that confusing?

Target Trace is just an ID plotter, so it doesn't show anything that the TID can't. In fact, on targets like you described, TT gives less information than TID. For example, let's say that trash target you just described, is a piece of aluminum trash with an ID of 50. TT will show that dot you described in the general area of the 50 range on the nonferrous axis. BUT, TID is more accurate, because TID assigns a value (a number) to the target.

 

[Martin_V3i]

Serious question Martin: Why do you find that confusing?

Target Trace is just an ID plotter, so it doesn't show anything that the TID can't. In fact, on targets like you described, TT gives less information than TID. For example, let's say that trash target you just described, is a piece of aluminum trash with an ID of 50. TT will show that dot you described in the general area of the 50 range on the nonferrous axis. BUT, TID is more accurate, because TID assigns a value (a number) to the target.

The old Etrac and Explorer target display screens were way better. I discount the Manticore with it's 2D display. The Manticore can show a smeared display and still give a silver coin, WTF? No common sense to me.

 

[Diga]

The old Etrac and Explorer target display screens were way better. I discount the Manticore with it's 2D display. The Manticore can show a smeared display and still give a silver coin, WTF? No common sense to me.

If TT is showing a small "smear" on the conductive line with a silver coin, then that means the ID on the coin isn't solid (1 TID). For example, to get that smear, the ID on the coin would have to give 2 or 3 adjacent numbers, like 84,85, or 84,85,86.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

If TT is showing a small "smear" on the conductive line with a silver coin, then that means the ID on the coin isn't solid (1 TID). For example, to get that smear, the ID on the coin would have to give 2 or 3 adjacent numbers, like 84,85, or 84,85,86.

Can the screen on Manticore give info unavailable on Legend, Deus 2 and EQX models? Yep.
I did a video just for you.
You fail to realize Manticore screen can show potential of mixed conductivity collocated targets. Hence user of Manticore can become suspicious. And turn and sweep. Exposing possible the scenario. And possibly make a better dig/no dig decision. Can work on some scenarios.
Btw CTX and E*Trac fall short here too vs Manticore.

 

[Diga]

Can the screen on Manticore give info unavailable on Legend, Deus 2 and EQX models? Yep.
I did a video just for you.
You fail to realize Manticore screen can show potential of mixed conductivity collocated targets. Hence user of Manticore can become suspicious. And turn and sweep. Exposing possible the scenario. And possibly make a better dig/no dig decision. Can work on some scenarios.
Btw CTX and E*Trac fall short here too vs Manticore.

Thanks for the video. BTW- I don't need to own a Manticore to know how an ID plotter with a 5 second decay rate works.

I only watched up until the 4 minute mark. You keep saying "1 ID", but it's not 1 ID. It's 45 , 46, 47, 48. Since TT has a 5 second decay rate, the smear appears that coincides with the adjacent and multiple ID's. If it truly was 1 ID, then TT would show a perfect round dot.

So, how is seeing that smear, going to change my dig/no dig decision, compared to seeing 45,46,47, and 48, on the ID?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Thanks for the video. BTW- I don't need to own a Manticore to know how an ID plotter with a 5 second decay rate works.

I only watched up until the 4 minute mark. You keep saying "1 ID", but it's not 1 ID. It's 45 , 46, 47, 48. Since TT has a 5 second decay rate, the smear appears that coincides with the adjacent and multiple ID's. If it truly was 1 ID, then TT would show a perfect round dot.

So, how is seeing that smear, going to change my dig/no dig decision, compared to seeing 45,46,47, and 48, on the ID?

You failed to watch entire video.
You see smear (elongated trace) - could suggest collocated target.
And user could rotate and check varying coil position sweeping.
With EQX, Legend, Deus 2, and many other models you don’t get the clue possible collocation exist..
ID of scenario in video was not giving high conductive coin range yet clad dime was present.
So knowing how ID presented can be skewed due to collocation, user of Manticore can at times get the clue to be suspicious. You won’t get this info with the other models.

Now, here’s a question.
Could I perhaps use notch to find the high conductor in the video using manticore?
Perhaps. The problem is I don’t know what detecting scenario I could be suspected to. Meaning I wouldn’t know necessarily where to set notch or even tone breaks. Due to different conductivity of different objects.
And if I could do a tone break or notch setting - I may be able to get audio but it could be severely clipped making it hard to hear.

Truth be told, this when targets (target scenarios) are displayed more in middle of screen yet show an elongated trace - what I am showing in video is actually one of the best uses of the trace presentation.

Another use btw, is exceeding large nonferrous shallow. User can get so:e benefits here too. This though assumes not may silver dollars out there lying around shallow. Can tops, fruit jar kids reading higher .I.d can be spotted quick lots of times with big ole trace in screen. I saw this the other day in a site where old store use to set using
Manticore 11” coil.

Also remember there can be smearing of trace in the vertical too.

 

[Diga]

You failed to watch entire video.
You see smear (elongated trace) - could suggest collocated target.
And user could rotate and check varying coil position sweeping.
With EQX, Legend, Deus 2, and many other models you don’t get the clue possible collocation exist..
ID of scenario in video was not giving high conductive coin range yet clad dime was present.
So knowing how ID presented can be skewed due to collocation, user of Manticore can at times get the clue to be suspicious. You won’t get this info with the other models.

1) You didn't answer my question from my previous post.

2) I watched the rest of the video after I wrote my previous post, but the rest of it was irrelevant to my point.

3) You say, "You see smear (elongated trace) - could suggest collocated target.". It might and might not, but so what? That smear would coincide with a few adjacent numbers that I would see on the ID's. The ID's are more accurate, because it assigns definitive numbers, instead of a smear.

4) See #1

 

[The Rebel]

The best discriminator is your eye. When in doubt dig.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

1) You didn't answer my question from my previous post.

2) I watched the rest of the video after I wrote my previous post, but the rest of it was irrelevant to my point.

3) You say, "You see smear (elongated trace) - could suggest collocated target.". It might and might not, but so what? That smear would coincide with a few adjacent numbers that I would see on the ID's. The ID's are more accurate, because it assigns definitive numbers, instead of a smear.

4) See #1

Yeah it might not be collocated. (It could be elongated shaped nonferrous target) ..But I am getting info telling me it could be. So I can rotate on target.
You see I don’t necessarily have to rotate on all like you would with EQX, Deus 2, Legend.
All you see if the face value ID. Just like in the video. You based on tone and ID would never suspect high conductor has possibility of being present.
Now if a got a tight dot and ID using Manticore - odds wise this tells me solo sitting target and ID is more believable. So at a glance I can make decision. I don’t have to rotate.
Imagine I had piece of aluminum that read 46 in video and swept.

 

[Diga]

I'll rephrase my question TNS:

You're swinging along in the wild, whistling dixie. You hone in on a target and do the short wiggle interrogation on it. The TID alternates between 45 and 46. As such, Target Trace will show a short smear to reflect the 45 and 46.

How is that short smear showing more information than the TID of 45 and 46?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I'll rephrase my question TNS:

You're swinging along in the wild, whistling dixie. You hone in on a target and do the short wiggle interrogation on it. The TID alternates between 45 and 46. As such, Target Trace will show a short smear to reflect the 45 and 46.

How is that short smear showing more information than the TID of 45 and 46?

I just did a video just for you to answer your question. It’s up right now,

 

[Diga]

I just did a video just for you to answer your question. It’s up right now,

Thanks again for another video TNS, but I honestly don't know how that video answered the question from my previous post.

I suspect that other Manticore users are reading, or will read our interaction, so I'll pose the question again to the Manticore users, or anyone else for that matter:

You're swinging along in the wild, whistling dixie. You hone in on a target and do the short wiggle interrogation on it. The TID alternates between 45 and 46. As such, Target Trace will show a short smear to reflect the 45 and 46.

Does that short smear show more information than the TID of 45 and 46? If so, would it change your dig / no dig decision compared to the 45 and 46 that the TID showed?

 

[Rattlehead]

A TID that’s only fluctuating 1 or 2 digits isn’t going to produce a smear, so no influence on dig/don’t dig. Longer smears where two targets that are further apart in conductivity can be useful as TNSS demonstrated in his first video. Without TT those will likely just be one mixed signal. No way of knowing you have two targets close together.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Thanks again for another video TNS, but I honestly don't know how that video answered the question from my previous post.

I suspect that other Manticore users are reading, or will read our interaction, so I'll pose the question again to the Manticore users, or anyone else for that matter:

You're swinging along in the wild, whistling dixie. You hone in on a target and do the short wiggle interrogation on it. The TID alternates between 45 and 46. As such, Target Trace will show a short smear to reflect the 45 and 46.

Does that short smear show more information than the TID of 45 and 46? If so, would it change your dig / no dig decision compared to the 45 and 46 that the TID showed?

The trace is not just 1 segment of ID on trace, for displacement.
I just did video trying to answer your question.
Video is up.

 

[Diga]

A TID that’s only fluctuating 1 or 2 digits isn’t going to produce a smear, so no influence on dig/don’t dig. Longer smears where two targets that are further apart in conductivity can be useful as TNSS demonstrated in his first video. Without TT those will likely just be one mixed signal. No way of knowing you have two targets close together.

Hi Rattlehead.

1 or 2 fluctuating digits isn't going to produce a short smear on TT? Ok fine, let's call it a small cylindrical shape. That's all just semantics.

The distance between two targets is irrelevant to my point.

What do you mean, "Without TT those will likely just be one mixed signal"? TT is just using dots instead of numbers. TT isn't "separating" two targets any better than the TID is.

Can you provide an exact example in which TT will change your dig / no dig decision, in a way that TID and tones cannot?

 

[Rattlehead]

Hi Rattlehead.

1 or 2 fluctuating digits isn't going to produce a short smear on TT? Ok fine, let's call it a small cylindrical shape. That's all just semantics.

The distance between two targets is irrelevant to my point.

What do you mean, "Without TT those will likely just be one mixed signal"? TT is just using dots instead of numbers. TT isn't "separating" two targets any better than the TID is.

Can you provide an exact example in which TT will change your dig / no dig decision, in a way that TID and tones cannot?

Sorry Dig, but I’ve explained it the best way I know how and I simply don’t have the patience to do one of those long debates on something I know to be true from personal experience. I have videos up which show examples. One is titled deep and iffy coin signals with the Manticore.

 

[Diga]

Sorry Dig, but I’ve explained it the best way I know how and I simply don’t have the patience to do one of those long debates on something I know to be true from personal experience. I have videos up which show examples. One is titled deep and iffy coin signals with the Manticore.

That's fine Rattlehead. I just thought it would be a simple task to provide an exact example in which TT will change your dig / no dig decision, in a way that TID and tones cannot.

Anyway, I'll check out that video. Thanks

 

[Diga]

TNS,

In your Demo #2, you've got a US nickel which is showing a very solid 27. TT shows a clean "dot" as it should.

What does it matter if the dot is a little smaller or a little larger? Or better yet, how does that dot say "dig me" any better than the TID of 27?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

TNS,

In your Demo #2, you've got a US nickel which is showing a very solid 27. TT shows a clean "dot" as it should.

What does it matter if the dot is a little smaller or a little larger? Or better yet, how does that dot say "dig me" any better than the TID of 27?

Well.
For one a higher reading target like a fruit jar lid. Would likely give a bigger dot. Bigger than a quarter. You want to dig quarters or fruit jar lids? Hmmm

I showed the last video with Nickel to show trace displacement.
Yeah I would not suspect comingled target on that particular trace in video.

Also remember whichever MF program (with different freqs and or freq weighting) will drive trace behavior depending on conductivity level of target. Example. Weaker dot on lower conductor using ATHC on Manticore. This can drive the elongation of trace too. Depending on conductivity level of targets in detecting scenario.
Intensity of trace too. Albeit it might be visible but weak.

Speed detector is set at can drive trace too.
Comparing equally deep target expect lower (slower) speed to give more intense trace on average.

Can there be a relation to audio strength detector yields to the intensity of trace displayed? Yes.