(Don't know if any of you had seen this) Looks like we're done in Erie County!

[Donneybrook]

So sorry man! If there was anything i could do to reverse the law I would!! (sign an online vote etc.) If this ever happens in Tallahassee, the gov would never cease hearing from me!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Always check laws, ordinances, and regulations, which state clearly, No digging, no removing items. Read is part of checking, No means no, unless you talk to someone who can allow it. ....

Well, in all public land everywhere, there is verbage that dis-allows digging, in some form or fashion (alter, deface, vandalize, destroy, etc.. ) And verbage that disallows "removing" in some form or fashion (take, harvest, collect, steal, etc...). And since no one can technically "allow" anyone else to break the law (no more so than a cop can "allow" you to break the speed limit or rob banks).... Then I'm afraid your S.O.L. if this is the hobby you've chosen. Probably gonna need to stick to private land.

 

[HarveyH48]

Well, in all public land everywhere, there is verbage that dis-allows digging, in some form or fashion (alter, deface, vandalize, destroy, etc.. ) And verbage that disallows "removing" in some form or fashion (take, harvest, collect, steal, etc...). And since no one can technically "allow" anyone else to break the law (no more so than a cop can "allow" you to break the speed limit or rob banks).... Then I'm afraid your S.O.L. if this is the hobby you've chosen. Probably gonna need to stick to private land.

Gee, most of the time when I get pulled over for speeding, which I clearly was, I don't get a ticket. Most of the tickets I have gotten, weren't even close to what I was actually doing. Sometimes I get the 'No seat belt ticket' instead of the speeding ticket. Never gotten slapped with the maximum. Had a big crack running top to bottom on my Grand Prix windshield, was never mentioned, very obvious, and illegal. I probably wouldn't still driving, if the laws were applied fully, completely.

The digging and removing items, is vague, the person in charge of the site has room to work with, so do you. You dig the hole, in areas that don't matter much, careful fill it back in, no harm done. The bulk of the items removed, are usually similar to items picked up off the surface, again, not usually going to be that unusual, or doing any harm. You talk to these people, you get to educate them about the hobby, and they may allow an exception, since it isn't specifically banned. You might not be allow to dig up the soccer field, or the rose garden, jogging trail, but you still get to use some of the park.

Nothing grey about robbing banks, why include that, ridiculous, absurd comparison.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

.... The digging and removing items, is vague, the person in charge of the site has room to work with, so do you. .... not usually going to be that unusual, or doing any harm.....

Since we both agree that a) the wording can be vague (and obviously not "necessarily" applying), and we both agree that b) we're not doing any harm, then why not just do it? Why then does it need someone's sanction and permission ? They're certainly welcome to come tell you if they don't like it. But to go pre-empt such an *possible* encounter, by going around asking first "can I?" of bored desk-bound bureaucrats, you can merely create a situation of getting a "no". Where perhaps no one ever cared or noticed before (and didn't care UNTIL you asked). Such things have happened where detecting was always just common-place up till then.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... why include that, ridiculous, absurd comparison.

because you said this:

check laws, ordinances, and regulations, which state clearly, No digging, no removing items.

Ok, SO TOO are there "clearly" laws about robbing banks. So just following through with the logical conclusion, if you say those things are "clear". However, as I think you'll see, it does NOT "clearly" say that, since, of course, detecting is common place in parks, schools, beaches, etc... where (gasp) people "dig" and "remove" all the time. And either no one cares, or they even "have permission" to do it. Therefore it's not so "clear", now is it?

That was the reason for the analogy, that we need-not-think those things apply to us.

 

[SafeMode]

well then, I'm ok with your leaving things in-conclusive.

okie dokie artichokie!

 

[ATDigger]

No thank you, I'm ok with you not understanding. Carry on!

 

[SafeMode]

And of course , look at the picture. Makes it look like we go out in swarms....

the picture is photo-chopped

 

[knack4iron]

Someone needs to photoshop him in front of the Whitehouse with Michele and Barrack Obama in the background cheering him on.

 

[North☆Star]

AT-digger, I've studied your link. But as usual in such articles, there's no mention of what started those balls rolling. Here is something that is said though:

"The Erie County policy could take effect in spring 2014 at the earliest. The proposal follows a few recent incidents where those using metal detectors have been asked to leave county and city parks after they were observed digging the ground to remove metal objects. "

However, in the very same article, notice this quote as to "origins" :

"The policy that Schinzel proposes is modeled after the one in Monmouth County, N.J., where he worked before coming here."

Does anyone else see the contradiction here? I would infer that from the 2nd quote, that he's got this brilliant idea, based on some sort of restrictions seen at the previous job he has. Yet the first quote says it was born-out-of-holes someone saw.

Notice that whenever some bureaucrat says "because of holes", we all say: "durn those md'rs who must've left holes". But I'm of the opinion that there wasn't necessarily any incidents of "holes". Because think of it, what's the knee-jerk image that some people have when asked to think of metal detectors? HOLES! So they just say "no, because of holes". It's just the "go-to" answer by the person you just asked "can I metal detect ?".

As for the things about "removal of items from public grounds", well I got news for you: such "rules" about "harvesting", "taking", and "collecting" are ALREADY in effect at EVERY SINGLE park, school, campground, beach, etc... across the entire USA. So that no one thinks they can cut down trees, take home the picnic benches, harvest beach sand for commercial purposes, etc.... Were they ever meant to apply to individual coins and pulltabs and the seashell your 10 yr. old daughter just picked up? No. But can they if you asked long enough and hard enough of enough desk-bound bureaucrats? Sure!

While it's possible that some bureaucrat drove past a park, saw an md'r leaving holes, and got a bee in his bonnet to regulate/out-law this, yet in a lot of other cases, it's people who read stories like this (with the "coming to a town near you" hype), so they rush off to their city and county halls, asking if it's ok to detect. Whomever they ask gets a bee in their bonnet to implement rules to "address this pressing issue" Aaarrggghh.

Tom, at first you annoyed the living heck out of me and I'm sure a few others. As time has passed I now look forward to your entertaining posts and have come to realize that this forum wouldn't be the same without you!