Another Police Thread.
- Thread starter Armistead
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351maverick
Elite Member
Gotta love internet forum lawyers...
OP you're lucky you weren't locked up for obstruction. They did have a reason to ID you. As crazy as that lady was/is she told the cops you were suspicious and talking to young children. That is there reason right there. They need to make sure you aren't a sex offender or wanted individual. Being on private property makes no difference especially since it wasn't your private property. You are required by law to provide identification if the you are asked by a police officer in the lawful course of his/her duties, which it clearly was. (meaning they can't just randomly walk up to you and ask for ID, which this wasn't the case)
If you had nothing to hide and did nothing wrong, why not make the cops life easier and just hand over your ID. You make the situation worse and make yourself look more suspicious by doing what you did. And in the end they still got your info from your tag so you accomplished nothing but make yourself look more suspicious.
^^^this
clearly none of you guys are cops, or have any LEO's in your families...
Come on everyone! What ever side of this issue you come down on or have strong feelings about, lets please be civil with each other. 
1981Eagle
Full Member
I believe that you were correct in standing up for your rights.
I was a cop for 15 years, and I have told my wife ... cops don't come in the house, you don't answer questions, you don't allow them to 'look' in your car ....
99% of all cops are honest, and obey the laws they enforce ... but there are dirty cops out there .... ones that will drop a baggie of weed under your seat - only to 'find' it and say "Well - Look what I found ....." then they will say that they will let that young lady off the hook - for some oral sex.
Extreme? Sure! Rare ?!? You bet! But there are cops out there that will do it.
I know because I've seen cops charged for doing $hit like that! Gives all cops a bad name and they deserve whatever punishment they get ....
The worst part about dirty cops? They look just like all the other cops (who aren't dirty)!
So - that being said .... the answer to most encounters with the police has to be, "I'm sorry, I don't answer questions." "I'm sorry, I don't consent to searches of my person or vehicle." "Am I free to go?" "Am I being detained?"
Oh - one more thing - there is a difference between 'identifying yourself' and providing or showing an ID. In many cases, and in many states, there is no requirement to carry and provide a photo ID - even if you are required to 'identify yourself'. So - in many cases, unless you are driving, and you are required to identify yourself, simply tell the officer your name and DOB and let them run the information.
Luckily we don't live in a society where the 'authorities' can stop you and demand, "Papers please!" (yet)
I was a cop for 15 years, and I have told my wife ... cops don't come in the house, you don't answer questions, you don't allow them to 'look' in your car ....
99% of all cops are honest, and obey the laws they enforce ... but there are dirty cops out there .... ones that will drop a baggie of weed under your seat - only to 'find' it and say "Well - Look what I found ....." then they will say that they will let that young lady off the hook - for some oral sex.
Extreme? Sure! Rare ?!? You bet! But there are cops out there that will do it.
I know because I've seen cops charged for doing $hit like that! Gives all cops a bad name and they deserve whatever punishment they get ....
The worst part about dirty cops? They look just like all the other cops (who aren't dirty)!
So - that being said .... the answer to most encounters with the police has to be, "I'm sorry, I don't answer questions." "I'm sorry, I don't consent to searches of my person or vehicle." "Am I free to go?" "Am I being detained?"
Oh - one more thing - there is a difference between 'identifying yourself' and providing or showing an ID. In many cases, and in many states, there is no requirement to carry and provide a photo ID - even if you are required to 'identify yourself'. So - in many cases, unless you are driving, and you are required to identify yourself, simply tell the officer your name and DOB and let them run the information.
Luckily we don't live in a society where the 'authorities' can stop you and demand, "Papers please!" (yet)
Chad
Elite Member
OP you're lucky you weren't locked up for obstruction. They did have a reason to ID you. As crazy as that lady was/is she told the cops you were suspicious and talking to young children. That is there reason right there. They need to make sure you aren't a sex offender or wanted individual. Being on private property makes no difference especially since it wasn't your private property. You are required by law to provide identification if you are asked by a police officer in the lawful course of his/her duties, which it clearly was. (meaning they can't just randomly walk up to you and ask for ID, which this wasn't the case)
If you had nothing to hide and did nothing wrong, why not make the cops life easier and just hand over your ID. You make the situation worse and make yourself look more suspicious by doing what you did. And in the end they still got your info from your tag so you accomplished nothing but make yourself look more suspicious.
Couldn't have said it any better.
FallGuy
Senior Member
Former cop here as well. I agree with most of what you said, but his rights weren't being violated to begin with. Some lady, crazy or not, said he was suspicious and talking to small children. If that's not a reason to question an individual then I don't know what is.
But you are correct in that not all states require you to hand over some type of physical ID but you are required to give your identifying information when asked.
1981Eagle
Full Member
Don't put words in my mouth please .... I didn't say his rights were being violated ... I said that he stood up for his rights. One can stand up for his rights, without someone first attempting to violate that right!
1981Eagle
Full Member
OP you're lucky you weren't locked up for obstruction. They did have a reason to ID you. As crazy as that lady was/is she told the cops you were suspicious and talking to young children. That is there reason right there. They need to make sure you aren't a sex offender or wanted individual. Being on private property makes no difference especially since it wasn't your private property. You are required by law to provide identification if you are asked by a police officer in the lawful course of his/her duties, which it clearly was. (meaning they can't just randomly walk up to you and ask for ID, which this wasn't the case)
If you had nothing to hide and did nothing wrong, why not make the cops life easier and just hand over your ID. You make the situation worse and make yourself look more suspicious by doing what you did. And in the end they still got your info from your tag so you accomplished nothing but make yourself look more suspicious.
If you have nothing to hide ..... why not let the cops search your home? If you have nothing to hide, why not give a written statement?
"If you have nothing to hide" is the opening line of a fishing expedition!
So - if the cop is asking for your ID ... tell him you name and let him run it - I agree.
But in Virginia - unless you are driving - you don't need to hand over anything (unless you are carrying on a CHP ... then you must hand over both a photo ID and you CHP) But in VA - even 'open carriers' merely have to identify themselves ... they aren't required to carry an ID with them.
FallGuy
Senior Member
Not putting words in your mouth, but that is how it read. When people "stand up" for something, it is generally implied they are standing up for something they believe to be wrong.
FallGuy
Senior Member
We are not talking about searching your home or vehicle. You brought that up, not the OP. That is a completely different argument than what actually occurred. I am not disagreeing here, but it's not pertinent to this situation. He was not being unlawfully searched.
Brown
New Member
I'll say the following acknowledging that I don't know where you're from, and knowing that laws vary from place to place.
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There sure are a lot of people in here who have studied law enforcement on internet forums....
I'm completely with you that this woman was not acting like a great parent. However, what would complying with the officer's request have hurt? You made his life more difficult for no reason other than your skewed version of 'rights.'
He was doing his job by investigating a complaint, regardless of how anybody feels about the complainant. He certainly had every right to demand you provide your information, whether in ID form or not.
There are bad police officers out there who ruin things for the rest of us, but I'm not sure why, in this situation, anybody would mention cops bullying somebody or abusing power. He was doing his job.
Also, I know tone can be misinterpreted on the internet pretty easily - I'm not trying to be a jerk or insult anybody.
Happy hunting everybody.
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There sure are a lot of people in here who have studied law enforcement on internet forums....
I'm completely with you that this woman was not acting like a great parent. However, what would complying with the officer's request have hurt? You made his life more difficult for no reason other than your skewed version of 'rights.'
He was doing his job by investigating a complaint, regardless of how anybody feels about the complainant. He certainly had every right to demand you provide your information, whether in ID form or not.
There are bad police officers out there who ruin things for the rest of us, but I'm not sure why, in this situation, anybody would mention cops bullying somebody or abusing power. He was doing his job.
Also, I know tone can be misinterpreted on the internet pretty easily - I'm not trying to be a jerk or insult anybody.
Happy hunting everybody.
Personally, I cooperate fully as I can with the police. I live in a small town, and sort of stand out in a crowd, easy to remember. I have nothing to hide, and nothing to fear from cooperating, and I'm sure it's remembered and appreciated. Could be the difference in being ignored for some minor transgression (dog off the lease), a simple warning, just because they already know me, and that I have no major issues. There is the easy way, and the hard way, of doing things. The police ask for identification, and you provide it as requested, it makes it easier for them to do their job. When you make it more difficult, anyone would wonder why, and what you are hiding. I don't carry my wallet most of the time, so they ask my name, where I live, few minutes later, they explain why, no big deal. Maybe just the benefit of small town living.
SE-5
Full Member
1981Eagle
Full Member
SE-5
Full Member
Is it a bad thing to let the authorities search you or your car under the misguided idea that you have "northing" to hide? NEVER in a million years will I wave a single right that so many have died for to grant and preserve for us all.
351maverick
Elite Member
I was NOT joking at all - I teach my kids to RESPECT police officers
if you guys do not respect the police who do you respect?
if you guys do not respect the police who do you respect?
Sadly we don't all live in Mayberry.If you were the O.P. would you have been a little upset some lady was implying you were maybe up to something sexual with her children just to prove a point?Sounds more like she was wasting the cops time when he could have been stopping a real crime.I've had cops called on me at night trying to do a Plumbing call.Cops will make you leave and let someones house flood out.Lots of people who need a cop can't get one because you have some nimrod wasting their time.Big towns have a higher percentage of corrupt cops.I actually know a cop who investigated corrupt cops for three years.He told me stories that will make you tremble when you get pulled over.That one percent is the ones you got to watch out for.
The complaint was I was talking to her young children. I wasn't talking to her young children, being unsupervised, they walked on posted property and started talking to me. If the mother hadn't shown up when she did, I would've called the police regarding her kids.
The cops have a right if someone reports you as suspicious to talk to you, that doesn't give the cops reasonable suspicion to ID you. The lady and her unsupervised children were the law breakers, leaving minors alone and trespassing on private property. The cops left me alone and I have no doubt he let the lady have what for for leaving her kids alone. I can't say, but looked to me they ID'ed her and took her info. He had no right to demand ID of me and he knew so. If he would've detained me and asked for ID, I would've gave it to him under protest and reported him.
I open carry a lot and once in awhile the cops are called, I still refuse ID, why, because I'm following the law and I expect them to do the same. 99% of the time they just ask if I'm OK, make sure I'm not doing anything and say have a good day.
It's not about making myself suspicious, it's about my rights to be secure in my person and for the police to follow the law as I do. I don't have to give up my rights to make their job easier.
FallGuy
Senior Member
So it's ok for the police to beat your kids if they disobey a police officer? Even if they are 18+? C'mon man. Let's be somewhat rational.
1981Eagle
Full Member
Oh - I'm sorry - I thought you were joking .... My BAAAAAAAAAAAAAd
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