an example of a guy who fought a ticket

[ohmygato]

Just a recent experience in traffic court. Tom held up a dismissed ticket, like it was a free pass. In my experience from September, most everyone who actually showed up in court, had their tickets dismissed, including me, the guy on the motorcycle. The motorcycle rider did plead guilty to Careless Driving, which was a lesser charge, than his Reckless Driving ticket, for which he could have gone to jail.

Some of the tickets dismissed, were a little questionable, some were dismissed because the officer didn't show up. Most didn't take more than a couple of minutes. The lawyer, who showed up without a client took the longest.

I think what you're saying is that because a ticket is dismissed does not mean that it was unjustified to begin with. Is that correct?

 

[ohmygato]

I'd prefer to know that I'm going to be okay hunting a site, and not have someone walk up, tap me on the shoulder to ask me what I'm doing. Having to try and word a response carefully, hoping that it'll be okay, or no worse than having to leave. I'm out hunting, just for fun, worrying about such things will drive you a little crazy (could give one example...), and I've only been hunting a few years. I know I could sneak around for 35 years, without a few issues.

Asking permission does not necessarily prevent someone from tapping you on the shoulder to ask you what you are doing. The two events are not correlated.

If something is perfectly legal in the first place, why would you consider it to be sneaking around?

 

[HarveyH48]

Asking permission does not necessarily prevent someone from tapping you on the shoulder to ask you what you are doing. The two events are not correlated.

If something is perfectly legal in the first place, why would you consider it to be sneaking around?

If you have ask for permission, you can direct those questions to the person you asked...

True, if it's perfectly, why would you need to worry about what time of day is okay to hunt. Should be able to go out and hunt anytime that fits your schedule, and comfort, not have to pick a time, to avoid the person responsible for the site, the 'looky-lou's' the 'busy-bodies' Your legal, you have permission, you are doing nothing wrong, why avoid being seen?

 

[SafeMode]

This wasn't md'ing, but

totally understandable. yet another

 

[ohmygato]

If you have ask for permission, you can direct those questions to the person you asked...

True, if it's perfectly, why would you need to worry about what time of day is okay to hunt. Should be able to go out and hunt anytime that fits your schedule, and comfort, not have to pick a time, to avoid the person responsible for the site, the 'looky-lou's' the 'busy-bodies' Your legal, you have permission, you are doing nothing wrong, why avoid being seen?

I only worry about what time I metal detect when others are using the field already for activities that would be disrupted by me metal detecting. It's akin to not starting a game of frisbee in the middle of a soccer game.

It sounds like you're in support of this position. Correct?

 

[HarveyH48]

I only worry about what time I metal detect when others are using the field already for activities that would be disrupted by me metal detecting. It's akin to not starting a game of frisbee in the middle of a soccer game.

It sounds like you're in support of this position. Correct?

Of course, it's intended purpose is a sports field. You wouldn't interfere with it's function, metal detecting, anything else. Just like if you were there first, and players started to arrive, you would pack it up, and move on. Just common courtesy.

Just like on the beach, would you hunt when there are dozens of people layout on towels? Or chose a time when they aren't there? If you hunted with people on the beach, would you detect right up to the edge of their towels, or give the a few feet? How many feet would be appropriate?

Any relation to Tom? Other than you are both from California?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

....True, if it's perfectly, why would you need to worry about what time of day is okay to hunt. Should be able to go out and hunt anytime that fits your schedule, and comfort, not have to pick a time, to avoid the person responsible for the site, the 'looky-lou's' the 'busy-bodies' Your legal, you have permission, you are doing nothing wrong, why avoid being seen?

Interesting observation. I hadn't thought about that. Yes I have often peppered my stance with "go at low traffic times" and "avoid busy-bodies", etc... But what you're saying would make sense to some people that: "why should any of us have to be discreet in our timing if it's "legal" ? Shouldn't we be able to go in front of gardeners, archies, etc... ?

On the one hand, I see your point. All I can say to answer this, is that we are in an ODD hobby that a) draws the stares of curious people, b) has connotations, and c) isn't going to be loved by everyone.

So to answer your question, I guess it's a matter of respect for persons who may not like it. Why swat a hornet's nest ? Why spit in someone's holy water? Or kind of like nose-picking: not necessarily illegal either , but ... don't we ALL have a little discretion in our timing?

Yes I wish it weren't like that. I wish everyone rolled out the red carpets for us, and there were neon-signs saying "digging and defacement welcome here". But alas, this isn't going to happen. So it's almost as if you have to make a choice, if you're going to get into certain forms of md'ing (turf) that you do need to practice a little discretion.

 

[ohmygato]

Of course, it's intended purpose is a sports field. You wouldn't interfere with it's function, metal detecting, anything else. Just like if you were there first, and players started to arrive, you would pack it up, and move on. Just common courtesy.

Just like on the beach, would you hunt when there are dozens of people layout on towels? Or chose a time when they aren't there? If you hunted with people on the beach, would you detect right up to the edge of their towels, or give the a few feet? How many feet would be appropriate?

Any relation to Tom? Other than you are both from California?

So you're saying that you wouldn't need to ask anyone if you could metal detect at these locations, but that you would use common courtesy to guide your judgement, correct?

 

[HarveyH48]

So you're saying that you wouldn't need to ask anyone if you could metal detect at these locations, but that you would use common courtesy to guide your judgement, correct?

There is usually a rule or regulation, about digging. If the rule exists, I would ask the man in charge, out of courtesy and respect. My tax dollars pay his salary. The majority of the voters agreed that someone needed to be there to care for the site. Can't just ignore the rules, just because it's inconvenient.

Like most, I have a full time job, don't get to set my own hours. Could choose to work the night shift, I suppose, just so I could detect unseen early morning, after work. Just not that obsessed. Seems if I'm not doing anything illegal, and doing nothing wrong, should be able to go at my convenience, correct? Tom equates picking his nose, to metal detecting, I don't see it that way. If it was a nose picking hobby, doubt I'd be doing it. Discretion is one thing, but if enough people really don't want you there, they can make that happen, regardless of how careful you are. If it's going to be a problem, I'd rather not force my way in anyway. Plenty of other places to hunt.

 

[ohmygato]

There is usually a rule or regulation, about digging. If the rule exists, I would ask the man in charge, out of courtesy and respect. My tax dollars pay his salary. The majority of the voters agreed that someone needed to be there to care for the site. Can't just ignore the rules, just because it's inconvenient.

So if there's no rule, you would just go ahead and use common courtesy to guide your judgement without asking the man in charge?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

There is usually a rule or regulation, about digging. If the rule exists .... If it's going to be a problem, I'd rather not force my way in anyway. Plenty of other places to hunt.

If our obligation is to make every last conceivable person happy, and that every last conceivable person love our hobby, then yes: everything else you're saying would hold logically true. By all means, stay home, and don't go out, until you get everyone to "sign off" on you.

And yes, things about digging (even if not in those exact words) appear in/on every speck of public land everywhere in the USA. If someone can say "it doesn't apply" or "well.... just cover your holes" , then by definition that meant that those things didn't necessarily apply. And you may or may not get lucky asking permission in the game of russian roullette (depending on the mood of the person you're asking, what they had for breakfast, etc...)

 

[mountain digger]

After many of these threads, think Tom's problem with asking, is mostly in his head, plays 'what if' too much, with little or no actual experience talking to the people in charge, unless he gets caught. Maybe it spices up things for him, keeps him sharp, talking his way out of those situation, gives him a sense of superiority, where he's only being given the benefit of doubt, courtesy and respect.

The more Tom goes on and on, about how petty and vindictive the California officials are about metal detecting, really tempts to call out there and ask, just to see if they are really that way, to see if they will cuss an yell 'No Way'. I've never gotten sort of treatment or attitude from a public employee, no matter how much I deserved it.

I know I could sneak around for 35 years, without a few issues.

Hey Harv ...

Attacking the messenger again.

Oh wait, was this Tom's thread or Harv's? Glad to see you are now using a video camera. Remember the discussion about using a video cam? I use mine a lot when I'm metal detecting and it has come in handy a time or two for documenting what really happens...sort of like your video documented this event. Thank goodness you had that documentation as without it, who knows what the end result could have been.

 

[HarveyH48]

So if there's no rule, you would just go ahead and use common courtesy to guide your judgement without asking the man in charge?

If the 'No Digging' rule exists for that site, I would talk to the man. Sorry, sometimes forget to word my responses precise and simple...

Why are you California guys so focused on getting me to agree to something, that I've state very clearly, dozens of times, I'm very much against? Some sort of cult? Silence, secrecy, and dodging the man, are some of the things keep this hobby in the shadows. I prefer to have the public employees, and the citizens of my community to be okay with what I'm doing, so I can fully focus on enjoying my hunt time. I don't want my thoughts focused on scenarios, and hypothetical solution of what I might say or do, to minimize what ever hassle I might get into. I've got more productive things to work on in my head, metal detecting is just one hobby, one interest. I have quite a few others.

 

[ohmygato]

If the 'No Digging' rule exists for that site, I would talk to the man. Sorry, sometimes forget to word my responses precise and simple...

Then if the 'No Digging' rule does not exist, you wouldn't ask?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Then if the 'No Digging' rule does not exist, you wouldn't ask?

I think this was answered in the past that : Yes still ask. Because there are other things that *might * apply as well . Even though not as specific as "dig", yet our responsibility to make sure no one wants to morph other things as well . Eg.: deface, alter, destroy , vandalism, collect , harvest , remove , take , cultural heritage, annoy , noise ordinances , etc....

 

[ohmygato]

I think this was answered in the past that : Yes still ask. Because there are other things that *might * apply as well . Even though not as specific as "dig", yet our responsibility to make sure no one wants to morph other things as well . Eg.: deface, alter, destroy , vandalism, collect , harvest , remove , take , cultural heritage, annoy , noise ordinances , etc....

Sorry, I intended to direct this question specifically to Harv.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I'm getting into this late, but why would you take a chance digging on a sports field without permission? Wouldn't you want to know where sprinkler heads were, or possible lines? Better yet, in all the sneaking around, would you come forward and fess up if you cracked a sprinkler head you didn't see? We have two baseball/soccer fields in my town, along with a couple private school fields. I've asked and recieved permission on the playground at the elem. school, and the greens that are non sporting fields at the private school, but wouldn't even think of asking to dig on the sporting fields. I think digging on a baseball/soccer field makes us all look like a bunch of dopes regardless of permission or not............

wow, I've been at this for 35+ yrs., have detected thousands of turfed fields (parks, schools, yards, etc....) and have NEVER "cracked a sprinkler head". Do you know of anyone with a detector who's damaged pipes or sprinkler heads ?

As for sports or soccer fields, I believe if you take a look through md'ing forums you will find that those are oft-times the most sought out places to hunt. People hunt them, and have hunted them, all the time, and I would not classify them as dopes. If they leave no trace or harm, then .... so be it. If they were going to leave holes and a mess, then yes, that would classify them as a "dope".

Sports related turf is often time less junky than regular park turf, because they are sometimes less junky. Because in parks, where picnicking occurs, people are eating and drinking (BBQs, etc..). And that bodes for junk (tabs off cans, aluminum off wrappings, etc...). Whereas sports-fields is not typically for picnicking/eating, hence less junk. Also that certain sports lend themselves better to jewelry losses (frolicking motions, etc...).

 

[HarveyH48]

Then if the 'No Digging' rule does not exist, you wouldn't ask?

I can't answer any more of your silly, targeted questions, in a family friendly fashion. Really don't know how to more clearly state it for you, without insulting you, more than i already have...

 

[notdapolice]

Lil johnny and sally play all over the park area including the tot lots,sandboxes, along the basketball courts and in the open (non athletic) fields along with the lined fields. Lol thinking that some one who doesn't MD will see mders who detect these spots as "circling buzzards" sounds a lil far fetched and makes you (Uptown) as a newb sound a lil foolish. Hope you get permission to dig in the agricultural fields you hunt(where a lot of historic finds are made) cause getting caught on Private property is whole different story than plucking a silver coin or gold ring from public park grounds. BTW i am one of those tax payers. SMH

 

[ohmygato]

I can't answer any more of your silly, targeted questions, in a family friendly fashion. Really don't know how to more clearly state it for you, without insulting you, more than i already have...

It's a simple question Harv, intended to stimulate the discussion of an important topic.

If you don't want to participate in the discussion, I suggest you stay out of the thread in the first place so that people don't ask silly, targeted questions of you.