The New Garrett "APEX" Metal Detector

chillforlife · May 16, 2020

John-Edmonton said:
I believe Garrett had those two machines in mind to compete with this release. Much more "Bang" for the buck. And, Garrett can now build even better metal detectors, based on this new platform. It's nice to see a home grown company take risks, sink a lot of money into R&D and come out with yet another new product to stifle the competition.

Did that quote come straight from the Garrett marketing team?

diggindaboot · May 16, 2020

ToySoldier said:
Responses:

1. I can use your own reply and ask: How do you know Multi-Freq and Multi-Flex are different enough to call Multi-flex a "new technology". Based on the presentation and marketing they appear to be very similar. Whether they're technically similar enough to constitute infringement is up to engineers and the courts. If it's being done in a significantly different way by Garrett, then why not say so? The point is that it's a multiple simultaneous frequency feature. Not new.

2. Z Link is good, but it does limit headphone choices. Besides, I didn't list those features because they're bad. I listed them because they're not new. That was my point in response to your overall statement that the Apex is setting a bar for new tech. (As far as speed, on paper it's faster than Low Latency Bluetooth, but nobody can perceive the difference.)

3. I said the Viper coil was a nice idea, but it isn't going to be the deciding factor for anyone considering a Simplex.

4. I didn't say single frequency was a bad idea. In fact, I said the Apex presents a clear problem for the top two Vanquish models partly because they lack it and the Apex has it. But, single frequency modes aren't enough for somebody on a budget to buy an Apex over a lower level Vanquish. Minelab is offering a version of multi frequency in their entry level models. You have to buy an Apex to get it from Garrett.

5. OK, the Apex has a 20k single frequency mode for a total of four (5,10,15,20) while the Nox 600 has three (5,10,15). The Nox 600 also has 6 default multi freq modes while the Apex has 2. Ignoring the waterproof difference, the Nox 600 has adjustable recovery speed, adjustable iron bias, and more custom audio options. Also, the Equinox 600 does have proportional audio. (See page 17 of your manual.) I've successfully hunted for deep targets under trash by setting the Nox in a single tone and listening for the quieter tones. The effect is less pronounced than an AT series detector, but that's not a bad thing for deep silver hunting.

6. This isn't magic. There are physical relationships and limitations between coil dimensions and detection depth. I think Garrett would mention it if they made some breakthrough along those lines.

My main point stands. The Apex is not a groundbreaking detector full of "new tech". Garrett smartly pulled various technologies from their own detectors and other companies to create a model that's priced exactly where one would expect it to be priced.

If you think it's close to Minelab, then you apparently didn't watch the brouhaha between Deus and Minelab. If Multi Flex isn't new then neither is Multi IQ.

ToySoldier · May 16, 2020

kajunman said:
If you think it's close to Minelab, then you apparently didn't watch the brouhaha between Deus and Minelab. If Multi Flex isn't new then neither is Multi IQ.

What was the XP (Deus) v. Minelab suit over exactly and how did it end?

jwp1964 · May 16, 2020

chillforlife said:
Did that quote come straight the Garrett marketing team?

detectorben · May 17, 2020

jwp1964 said:
Another mid level machine. Thanks Garrett. Big news.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah nothing surprising. Seems to be where Garrett thrives. The ACE series has been their bread and butter for a long time. Every newbie seems to grab one from the local Cabela's and they make great gifts for the kids or curious people who will only detect once or twice.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

metaladdict · May 17, 2020

Garrett: We got a new multi frequency detector and it's our first one!
Detectorists: It's not waterproof, no thanks.
Garrett: Man! What a tough crowd!!!

Bill_Ace_350 · May 17, 2020

chillforlife said:
Did that quote come straight from the Garrett marketing team?

Curious. Do you really think he has a connection to Garrett?

chillforlife · May 17, 2020

Bill_Ace_350 said:
Curious. Do you really think he has a connection to Garrett?

Yes I do based on all his pro-Garrett posts. I don't really care, but if it were another poster posting nothing but pro- Minelab or Whites or Deus or whatever, people would be suspicious of the motivation. But for some reason John has been given a pass. I have nothing against him, seems like a decent chap, but if there is some tie, then just say so, and if there is absloutely no tie, then say that also.

The Lama · May 17, 2020

The difference between john and the others is he never bashes other brands,he is always posting helpful tips with out being arrogant or snobbish.

John-Edmonton · May 18, 2020

chillforlife said:
John, how does the Apex that Garrett gave you look in person? It looks better than I thought it would except they hung onto the godaweful yellow/orange color. Interesting though, but it's got a lot of comparable competition.

I don't have one to answer your question..... :drink:

Hopefully soon.

Bill_Ace_350 · May 18, 2020

chillforlife said:
Yes I do based on all his pro-Garrett posts. I don't really care, but if it were another poster posting nothing but pro- Minelab or Whites or Deus or whatever, people would be suspicious of the motivation. But for some reason John has been given a pass. I have nothing against him, seems like a decent chap, but if there is some tie, then just say so, and if there is absloutely no tie, then say that also.

Maybe he hasn't been given a pass.

Could be no one else thought he was connected to Garrett.

Lots of people are brand loyal.

Me, not so much.

I have detectors by 3 manufacturers.

I have firearms by many different manufacturers.

Sven · May 18, 2020

chillforlife said:
Yes I do based on all his pro-Garrett posts. I don't really care, but if it were another poster posting nothing but pro- Minelab or Whites or Deus or whatever, people would be suspicious of the motivation. But for some reason John has been given a pass. I have nothing against him, seems like a decent chap, but if there is some tie, then just say so, and if there is absloutely no tie, then say that also.

Well, John likes his Garretts, they suit him fine for his hunting style and finds the goods, so why not continue to use them. He has used many other brands and models but, seems to go back to his favorite brand. One of Garrett's loyal customers.

I have used Garrett's since the 1970's also one of my favorites, kind of lost my way after owning the Gti2500. Tried many other brands and models over the years and finally found a brand that suit me Nokta/Makro products. But, always hoped that Garrett would come out with something other than the Ace and AT models which never really did it for me. Now that Garrett is stepping up to the plate with a home run, going to keep a watch out for what's new.

ghound · May 18, 2020

I don't see it as a competitor to the Nox600 as the Nox still runs the higher freqs in multi that the Apex lacks and a host of other features, and if it's correct the Vanquish also runs the same multi, so again for UK/EU targets the Nox/Vanquish and Deus/ORX will be preferred.
Also, Garretts aren't known as being that hot in iron, especially when the iron is above your intended target, but we will have to wait and see if they have improved in that respect.
It's good to see Garrett have a go, but they have a lot of ground to make up as Minelab have a wealth of experience in the field of programming, filtering etc

Beachhunter · May 18, 2020

Nox 600 $649. Garrett Apex $429. So probably not in direct competition. I like the looks of the new Ace, especially the control box. The features make it doable for me at the beach but not in the water. I can definitely see some aftermarket waterproof kits becoming available for the new Apex.

mh9162013 · May 18, 2020

Beachhunter said:
Nox 600 $649. Garrett Apex $429. So probably not in direct competition. I like the looks of the new Ace, especially the control box. The features make it doable for me at the beach but not in the water. I can definitely see some aftermarket waterproof kits becoming available for the new Apex.

Huh, you're right! Hmmm, perhaps my next machine will be this Ace with that waterproof housing...

Someone already makes a popular one for the (old) Ace line. I don't know how well they work, but the maker sells a lot.

Monte · May 18, 2020

ghound said:
I don't see it as a competitor to the Nox600 as the Nox still runs the higher freqs in multi that the Apex lacks and a host of other features, and if it's correct the Vanquish also runs the same multi, so again for UK/EU targets the Nox/Vanquish and Deus/ORX will be preferred.

It's interesting you reference UK and EU targets for the Minelab and XP models. To me, they are no different that the wide-range of target I search or here in the USA that span the full spectrum of conductivity level, and where I generally search, they are especially hampered by so much masking ferrous debris that the blended signal of the very close and different conductive targets can cause any make and model to struggle to do well.

Quite often, when I have compared detectors side-by-side o many very challenging scenarios, I often note that many single-frequency detectors tend to out-perform a lot of the Simultaneous Multi-Frequency detector, especially in Iron trash. However, I have also used some SMF devices that handle the existing condition quite well and also provide me with very acceptable in-the-field performance.

Another thing is using a detector model that has the better operating Frequency for a particular site and the challenges that exist, and better yet is having a Selectable Frequency unit that gives you those options as-needed afield.

That's why I enjoy my Minelab Vanquish 540 Pro Pack and Nokta / Makro Simplex +. And it is also why I am very intrigued by Garrett's new APEX for it's apparent newer design and the ability to see how their Multi-Frequency behaves afield, and confirm the use of the different Selectable frequencies.

ghound said:
Also, Garretts aren't known as being that hot in iron, especially when the iron is above your intended target, but we will have to wait and see if they have improved in that respect.

Since their earlier days of TR and TR-Disc. and VLF/TR-Disc. models, I haven't enjoyed using any Garrett motion-based Discriminator in the very dense Iron Nails and other Ferrous contaminated sites I hunt. Definite4ly none of the Ace series, and just marginally with the AT series.

I've read, listed to and watched the videos numerous times about the APEX and I think the biggest thing that bothers or concerns me is that they group it with the Ace series. I have a gut feeling it is going o work a lot better and possibly pulls its weight to handle those very challenging environments. I'll know when I get one in my hands.

ghound said:
It's good to see Garrett have a go, but they have a lot of ground to make up as Minelab have a wealth of experience in the field of programming, filtering etc.

Yes, indeed. But I have a lot of faith in what the engineering crew at Garrett might have achieved.

Monte

KOB · May 18, 2020

Monte - is there a way to actually test the soil in a way to determine what frequency would work best for a detector ? Without having to try every detector and it's frequency known to mankind ? Like a ph test of sorts...

Beachhunter · May 19, 2020

KOB said:
Monte - is there a way to actually test the soil in a way to determine what frequency would work best for a detector ? Without having to try every detector and it's frequency known to mankind ? Like a ph test of sorts...

Maybe a Mineralization test? Just a guess.

ghound · May 19, 2020

Monte said:
It's interesting you reference UK and EU targets for the Minelab and XP models. To me, they are no different that the wide-range of target I search or here in the USA that span the full spectrum of conductivity level, and where I generally search, they are especially hampered by so much masking ferrous debris that the blended signal of the very close and different conductive targets can cause any make and model to struggle to do well.

Monte

There's more to it than what i touched on, personally the majority of sites i detect are medieval, most of these have had their building removed centuries ago and are now old pastures and are a mixture of salty soil from waste animal sulrry and mineralization, so a dime size coin at 6 inch with a single freq detector would be regarded as a good result, but in reality most of the coins are deeper than 6 inch, so primarily you need a detector that can first reach the depth the targets are at, and this is where the Nox excels. Secondly you need a detector that can hit a target not just beside iron as in your nail board test, but also below iron. This is because you may be on a site with another several hundred years of human habitation above the targets you want to dig.
The next issue is most of the coinage is mid to low conductors and some are a quarter the size or smaller than a dime and a third of the thickness, and ID's of 1 on the Nox/Vanquish would be regarded as potentially good finds. Take a silver cut quarter, with an ID of say 6 on a Nox/Vanquish, the ideal freq for it is around 22khz, then put it on edge and you might need a much higher freq to find it, use a 12khz machine and you might never hit it in ground.
So all in you can understand why the Nox are popular here, there deep on low conductors in salty mineralized ground, run high freqs and do well at finding targets below iron.
On ploughed and rolled ground it's a different scenario, and you'll make lots of good finds with just about any reasonable mid level detector with a good recovery speed as many of the targets will be on or just below the surface.
It will be really interesting to see what Garrett's flagship multi freq detector will be, and if it uses higher freqs etc.

diggindaboot · May 19, 2020

ghound said:
There's more to it than what i touched on, personally the majority of sites i detect are medieval, most of these have had their building removed centuries ago and are now old pastures and are a mixture of salty soil from waste animal sulrry and mineralization, so a dime size coin at 6 inch with a single freq detector would be regarded as a good result, but in reality most of the coins are deeper than 6 inch, so primarily you need a detector that can first reach the depth the targets are at, and this is where the Nox excels. Secondly you need a detector that can hit a target not just beside iron as in your nail board test, but also below iron. This is because you may be on a site with another several hundred years of human habitation above the targets you want to dig.
The next issue is most of the coinage is mid to low conductors and some are a quarter the size or smaller than a dime and a third of the thickness, and ID's of 1 on the Nox/Vanquish would be regarded as potentially good finds. Take a silver cut quarter, with an ID of say 6 on a Nox/Vanquish, the ideal freq for it is around 22khz, then put it on edge and you might need a much higher freq to find it, use a 12khz machine and you might never hit it in ground.
So all in you can understand why the Nox are popular here, there deep on low conductors in salty mineralized ground, run high freqs and do well at finding targets below iron.
On ploughed and rolled ground it's a different scenario, and you'll make lots of good finds with just about any reasonable mid level detector with a good recovery speed as many of the targets will be on or just below the surface.
It will be really interesting to see what Garrett's flagship multi freq detector will be, and if it uses higher freqs etc.

Even with the update the Nox is not strong for coins on edge. I have tested it with and without the update. I've tested it in dirt and beach sand, it's just not a strong point of the Nox. There are other detectors that will out perform a Nox re coins on edge. Nox works well on the beach as it has increased my gold ring finds.

The New Garrett "APEX" Metal Detector

Elite Member

Elite Member

Elite Member

Elite Member

Elite Member

Elite Member

Elite Member

Elite Member

Attachments

Elite Member

Elite Member

Elite Member

Elite Member

Elite Member

"In Memory of"

Elite Member

Elite Member

Attachments

Elite Member

Similar threads