No digging parks

liquid metal said:

Are parks where digging is not allowed worth it?
Are using probes allowed? If so, do you have much success?

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Do you really think any city that outlaws digging would be ok with probes and popping or consider that method not digging?
I think not.

One city in Kansas had these rules, I suppose going there and cleaning up surface finds on soccer field sidelines and picnic areas could find you some stuff but getting a signal on something buried and not being able to dig it would be too frustrating.
Like going bowling but not allowed to throw a ball down the alley.

I just avoided this city and it's parks and spent my time in a million other parks in other cities with more forward thinking rules.

Well put Digger. Life's too short to be looking over your shoulder while trying to enjoy your hobby of choice. WAY too many other opportunities,just leave the problematic parks or properties alone for now.

IDXMonster said:

Well put Digger. Life's too short to be looking over your shoulder while trying to enjoy your hobby of choice. WAY too many other opportunities,just leave the problematic parks or properties alone for now.

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+2

Well does it say no detecting, or no digging? You might possibly get away with using a screwdriver as a coin popper. Although I try not to do that because it scratches the coins. As long as your not carrying a shovel you may be OK.

Personally, I like to avoid interaction with government employees. That being said, a little while ago I was at a park and was told it was illegal. I didn't know. I showed him the pieces of wire and a live 22 shell and ask if he would want a child stepping on them. He said "thank you for helping us keep the park clean and left". But it could have turned out different, depending on the attitude of the officer. joe

liquid metal said:

Are parks where digging is not allowed worth it?
Are using probes allowed? If so, do you have much success?

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I asked this question once and I will give you the best advise anyone has given me. "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission".

If there is a rule that specifically states no metal detecting then I wouldn't do it, however as long as your respectful in public land that you the taxpayer help fund. well just be mindful of what you do and be respectful. At this point the worst someone can do is ask you to leave

Dflan83 said:

I asked this question once and I will give you the best advise anyone has given me. "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission".

If there is a rule that specifically states no metal detecting then I wouldn't do it, however as long as your respectful in public land that you the taxpayer help fund. well just be mindful of what you do and be respectful. At this point the worst someone can do is ask you to leave

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By the time you are asking forgiveness things have already headed south...just avoid asking forgiveness by getting permission, saves a lot of back peddeling and begging for forgiveness.

central joe said:

Personally, I like to avoid interaction with government employees. That being said, a little while ago I was at a park and was told it was illegal. I didn't know. I showed him the pieces of wire and a live 22 shell and ask if he would want a child stepping on them. He said "thank you for helping us keep the park clean and left". But it could have turned out different, depending on the attitude of the officer. joe

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I love this approach. I've seen posts where people have said they bring some junk metal in their pouch or a garbage bag with them so that if anyone approaches them they can show the service we provide.

In December I was researching a local town and any park or public regulations about detecting. I didn't find any, so I emailed the city official and just asked. She checked from her end, and also contacted the city attorney and both said no problems. Of course the lawyer states the lost object law, but now I have a letter to show anyone who gives me a hard time.

liquid metal said:

Are parks where digging is not allowed worth it?
Are using probes allowed? If so, do you have much success?

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Liquid metal, exactly what is the wording of the law/rules that you speak of ? Does it specifically say no "digging" ? Or is it something along the lines of "alter" or "deface" type verbiage ?

But it's all a moot point. Let me save you some time. There is not a park in the ENTIRE USA that doesn't have something along these lines ("vandalize" or whatever). And ANYBODY can say that our actions violate that. Do you really think you're going to win that battle of semantics ?

Thus if you think such things automatically mean "no detecting", then you might as well stay out of every park in the USA. But ... oddly .... a quick look at any finds-forum posts, shows NO SHORTAGE of guys md'ing parks. How can that be ? Are they all lawless miscreants ?

Here's what you have to realize: All such verbiage INHERENTLY applies to the end result. Eg.: if you've left no trace of your presence, then logically you haven't alterED or defacED anything, now have you ? And I would say the same for dig versus dug too. Does that mean every last busy-body will agree with that ? Of course not. Ok, pick lower traffic times and avoid such lookie-lous. You're simply not going to get red carpets rolled out for you.

And no amount of permission-asking solves this. I mean, gee, if you walk into any city hall and say "Hi, can I dig holes in the park?", guess what they're going to say. And to the extent you can debate the difference of "probe" vs "pop" vs "dig", guess what happens when some lookie-lou in the park doesn't like it ? You whip out your "permission", right ? The busy body gets on his cell phone, calls to city hall and says "but he's tearing the place up!" (which isn't true, of course). Then guess what happens to your permission ?

I would also point out that whatever answer you get , will vary depending on who you ask, how you ask it, their mood, what they envision, etc... FAR FROM "CUT AND DRIED" policy. Why subject yourself to that ? Don't become a victim of "no one cared TILL you asked". Just grow a set and go. Pick low traffic times. Kind of like nose-picking: Not illegal, and no one asks permission, yet you pick discreet times so as not to offend the squeemish.

UpStateMike said:

.... In December I was researching a local town and any park or public regulations about detecting. I didn't find any, so I emailed the city official and just asked. She checked from her end, and also contacted the city attorney and both said no problems. Of course the lawyer states the lost object law, but now I have a letter to show anyone who gives me a hard time.

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Question for you UpStateMike: When fetching this "yes", did you be sure to mention "dig" and "holes" etc.... ? Or did you just use the euphemism "metal detecting" ? Ie.: mincing words and being less than forthcoming.

Because I have heard (read on forum posts) of guys who did exactly as you did, only to still get booted by some busy-body (gardener, cop, or whomever). The md'r proudly whips out their permission. But it is promptly revoked, and the md'rs reprimanded for getting permission under false pretenses.

One guy that this happened to, posted that in the next city he was going to ask at city hall, he would "be sure to mention holes and dig". Several people told him "No, don't do that. Because that's a sure permission-killer. Just say 'metal detect' ". But the md'r gave his reason for thinking he needed to spell out the holes and dig part, d/t his earlier embarrassing reprimand.

So I'm thinking .... gee.... How successful is a guy going to be going into city halls saying: "Hi, can I dig in the park ?". And I'm also thinking "gee, I don't have this problem at parks I detect at. I just go. Don't ask silly question of bored desk-bound pencil pushers, and .... presto, problem solved.

NectarDetector said:

By the time you are asking forgiveness things have already headed south...just avoid asking forgiveness by getting permission, saves a lot of back peddeling and begging for forgiveness.

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Sure. And when asking their permission, be sure to mention "holes" , "dig", "indian bones" , "cultural heritage", "take", "remove", etc... And put a search and salvage contract in front of them to sign (hey, can't be too safe, right ?). And you wouldn't want them to fail to realize all the implications of your actions, right ?

Had the same problem near here two years ago.......
a few things else that you could do is write a letter
to your local newspaper editor. Explain the goods deeds of cleaning "sharps"
from tot lots & playgrounds.

Draw up a petition, post it around the community.

Find other detectorists in your area
and go to the city council, parks & rec dept asking for a repeal
of the city ordinance, explaining the good deeds
that we do cleaning surface, & sub surface trash.

I did this here 2 years ago, one park board member said, "It's a no brainer"
that we aren't doing any harm to parks.
The results were a Metal detecting park permit, (fee free)
drawn up by the park board, with certain inclusions.

dirt dick said:

... The results were a Metal detecting park permit, (fee free)
drawn up by the park board, with certain inclusions.

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I tried the "sharp objects" rationale to a busy-body gardener once. And the "we clean out the trash" line. But he wasn't stupid. He saw right through that in a second. And correctly said: "If the items is under the ground, it is not a nuisance to anyone".

About the only place this logic might work is in playground sandboxes (where a kid might step on a sharp pokey thing). But seriously now, I can't think of any sandbox anywhere that you can detect, and ALREADY be completely ignored.

As for for "petitions" and so forth that you guys did, the only time I would say this is a good idea, is if a true existing "no md'ing" law existed. NOT as a "pre-emptive move" (when/if seeking permissions). Because, I know that "permits" sound wonderful, right ? It evokes images of "carte-blanche" right ? But invariably they are always riddled with silly "gotchas". Like "yes but you can't dig". Or "digging too shall not exceed 3 inches long". Or "turn in all valuables to park office" (yeah right). Or "not within 10 ft. of any tree", etc...

Thus much better if simply silent on the subject. Neither expressly forbidding, nor expressly allowing md'ing.

Part of the inclusions were digging tools no bigger than six inches
( the Sampson just fits in the limits being spade part )
holes no deeper than six inches,
No digging after park hours
The central park is off limits because of historical significance....
All trash dug is to be removed.
Permit must be on your person when detecting.
Since the permits were issued I have been checked twice, while detecting.

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dirt dick said:

.... holes no deeper than six inches .....

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There are turfed parks where I REJECT anything less than 6", in my quest for strictly older coins, and trying to pass clad.

Ok, so picture this: You've got a classic 4-star deep silver signal. You've dug 6" down so far. And your pinpointer "screams" that it's just another inch further at the bottom of the hole. Right ? You stop, cover the hole, and leave the silver dime there. Right ? Just making sure.

Because most certainly there is someone following you guys around in the park, armed with a ruler, that measures each hole, right ?

They have to identify themselves first before asking for your permit.
I'll cut a plug , but if it's deeper, I'll dig like a badger. Keeping my back toward any audience or lookie loos, trying to use myself as a visual shield.

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Tom_in_CA said:

Question for you UpStateMike: When fetching this "yes", did you be sure to mention "dig" and "holes" etc.... ? Or did you just use the euphemism "metal detecting" ? Ie.: mincing words and being less than forthcoming.

Because I have heard (read on forum posts) of guys who did exactly as you did, only to still get booted by some busy-body (gardener, cop, or whomever). The md'r proudly whips out their permission. But it is promptly revoked, and the md'rs reprimanded for getting permission under false pretenses.

One guy that this happened to, posted that in the next city he was going to ask at city hall, he would "be sure to mention holes and dig". Several people told him "No, don't do that. Because that's a sure permission-killer. Just say 'metal detect' ". But the md'r gave his reason for thinking he needed to spell out the holes and dig part, d/t his earlier embarrassing reprimand.

So I'm thinking .... gee.... How successful is a guy going to be going into city halls saying: "Hi, can I dig in the park ?". And I'm also thinking "gee, I don't have this problem at parks I detect at. I just go. Don't ask silly question of bored desk-bound pencil pushers, and .... presto, problem solved.

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I was upfront about metal detecting, carefully avoiding the words "dig" "hole" "coins" and "jewelry". I said that I would be respectful and not do any damage. After the Town said "no rules against it." I said thanks and shut up!

dirt dick said:

.... but if it's deeper, I'll dig like a badger. Keeping my back toward any audience or lookie loos, trying to use myself as a visual shield....

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We are utterly disgusted with you dirt-dick. You are happy to have, and proud to proclaim a "permit". And proud to be "law-abiding". But then in the same breath you turn right around, and say (ON A PUBLIC FORUM NO LESS) that you (gasp) have dug beyond 6".

How can you live with yourself ?? I think there's a forum rule here somewhere that clearly says to be "law abiding". We're going to have to ban you .

And I will also be having a talk with the city, and show them this printed out post. But for a mere $100 (I accept paypal), I can be persuaded to keep quiet. Ok ?

UpStateMike said:

.... carefully avoiding the words "dig" "hole" "coins" and "jewelry"....

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Exactly as I suspected. "Mincing words" and being "less than forthcoming". Eh ?

ok then, what do you do when/if you are accosted in the field ? You whip out this "permission" to show them, right ? And what if they object and say that you never mentioned "dig", hence they toss you out by your ear ?

And on that note, have you ever been carded in the first place ? If not, then .... what would have happened if you'd never asked ? Apparently nothing ?