Big Boys Hobbies

Some harsh metal detecting regs in one of my nearby counties

maxxkatt

maxxkatt

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Dekalb county, Georgia is so concerned about their parks that they have enacted following:

Artifact or treasure hunting -

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to search any park or other area owned or operated by the county for recreational purposes for historic artifacts or for the purpose of locating lost or abandoned personal property of another, unless such person specifically is authorized by the owner of that personal property to make such search on the owner's behalf.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person to remove any historic artifacts or lost or abandoned personal property of another from any park or other area owned or operated by the county for recreational purposes unless such person specifically is authorized by the owner of that personal property to recover such personal property on the owner's behalf.

(c) It shall be unlawful for any person to dig in or otherwise disturb the ground in a park or other area owned by the county for recreational purposes, except under the circumstances permitted in subsection 19-40(b) above.

(d) This section does not prohibit a person from visually searching for and reclaiming his/her own lost property in any park or other area owned or operated by the county for recreational purposes, either by himself/herself or by someone specifically authorized by the owner of the lost personal property to act on his/her behalf.

(e) The prohibitions of this section shall not apply to law enforcement personnel engaged in the lawful execution of their duties or to persons employed or engaged by the county when performing their duties in any park or other area owned or operated by the county for recreational purposes.

But those same parks after hours are magnets for drug deals, prostitution and shootings and murders. I searched their web site with all of their park regulations for the words prostitution, murder, drugs and found 0/0 results.

Really makes me wonder about county officials. Are they scared to death of metal detectorists but prostitution, murder and drugs are fine?

not an untypical news report for Dekalb, County GA.

DEKALB COUNTY, Ga. (FOX 5 Atlanta) - Rangers are now patrolling Dekalb County Parks. The added security comes at a time when many people are worried about their safety. In December Dekalb County Police say three women were murdered in three weeks, two of their bodies were found on trails near Dekalb County Parks.

My note: The ranger does not appear armed, so I don't think he is there to prevent murder, prostitution or drugs, but on the lookout for rogue detectorists.
 

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Man, that's some pretty drastic totalitarian control there. Looks like someone went and asked the City council for permission. The only thing one should ask from a politician is to get out of town.
I had to look twice as I thought the Ranger had some kind taser or pinpointer on his left hip, turns out it was a person walking in the backround .:lol:
 
Soil Surgeon said:
... Looks like someone went and asked the City council for permission. ...
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing. That : "I have a sneaking suspicion of why someone in the bureaucracy got the wild idea to make all this language". To address such a "pressing issue" :roll:
 
Maybe they should spend more time working on getting their residents out of poverty instead of worrying about someone metal detecting...

The per capita income for the county was $28,412. About 12.4% of families and 16.1% of the population were below the poverty line, including 24.2% of those under age 18 and 11.2% of those age 65 or over
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Wikipedia
 
Soil Surgeon said:
Not a chance of that happening it makes too much sense and would require effort and commitment.
Click to expand...

Haha, well it's not the "effort and commitment" of the bureaucrat's to codify nitpicky rules to add to their park's dept. language. I bet that The effort was never on-their-part, to bother with this. Instead, the "effort and commitment" was on md'rs parts to make-sure it got there.

I'll bet that if you could trace back this dire language to "what put it on their plate to have-to-deal with", is NOT their "effort and commitment". I'll bet that it was some yester-year md'r who went seeking permission, clarification, etc....

Oh sure, there's the *possibility* that, since there's archie-language involved in this particular language ("historical" stuff), that maybe an archie just happen-chance walked by, saw an md'r in the park, and said to himself "Oh me oh my, what if he finds an old coin ??" :shock: And then rushed to city hall to draft language, and get a vote to implement this wonderful language. And then sure : We could all sit around and mutter under our breath "Durned them archies". :roll:

But somehow I doubt that's the evolution of this. Instead, if it got on an archie's plate for his consideration, I bet I know how what starts that ball rolling.
 
Martin_V3i said:
The archies might have caused much of it.
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And how/why did it get on their plate, as some "pressing need" that needed his clarification/codification ?

Remember : A purist archie is 1 in 500k random people potential passerbys. Eg.: In a city of 500k, you *might* have a single purist-archie-mindset person . Who "cares less" about an Indian head penny. Sure, yes, they exist.

So how does it get on his desk for consideration ? It's either 1) He happen-chance passes the park one day, sees an md'r, and thinks : "Oh me oh my, let's make a law". 2) Or someone brings it to his desk/attention, as a matter for him to weigh in on.

Which do you think it is ?
 
Sounds rather arbitrary and capricious to me. I have yet to see what harm is caused by people searching/scanning with a metal detector. There may be an argument regarding digging in the park (although that is also somewhat problematic). So many parks are poorly maintained and many have broad expanses of open dirt, such as, for instance, below large trees where deep shade prevents competitive plant growth or the tree, itself, poisons the ground to block other plants.
 
Rock Jock said:
Sounds rather arbitrary and capricious to me. I have yet to see what harm is caused by people searching/scanning with a metal detector. There may be an argument regarding digging in the park ....
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If you look back at Maxx's original cut & paste of his particular verbiage, you see that it's archie concerns. In his particular case. Ie.: Heaven forbid you or I found a penny over 50 yrs. old, eh ?

These laws were born out of good intent ~100+ yrs. ago. Because, sure, do you *really* want people to be able to go raid Bodie, or Shiloh, or Gettysburg ? Wouldn't you be the first-to-agree that those things are great in museums ? And that by you or me taking that relic, we have "destroyed archaeologist's ability to learn about our past" (since you " ... ripped the item from context", blah blah).

So there's good intent, when it comes to obvious off-limits sensitive monuments. Sure. None of us would argue with that :roll: But then those SAME archies (when you put the "pressing issue" on their desk) can extend that entire swaths of land. After all, we don't want any "camel's noses in tents", do we ?

If ever this level of cultural heritage reaches down to CITY or county parks (where there's not obvious historic monuments involved) : I have a sneaking suspicion how it gets there.

And sometimes you have to read between the lines on junk like this. For example, in my county (Monterey County California), I bet that if I were to study the micro-print boiler-plate minutia long enough, that : I too could find language that alludes to cultural heritage. YET THE REALITY IS : I can hunt any county park here till I'm blue in the face. :roll: (as long as none had an obvious historical theme). And yes : I can find a 51+ yr. old penny.

The fastest way I could change that "reality" for my county parks, is to go in seeking clarification. Eg.: waiving a mercury dime in front of a purist archie, asking "Can I have it", and "please put that in writing" and "gee, wouldn't it be wonderful to have permits" . Then sure: Then someone might make *more specific* language like Maxx's example shows :roll: So the moral of the story is : We md'rs should stop swatting hornet's nests :mad:
 
"It shall be unlawful for any person to search any park or other area owned or operated by the county for recreational purposes for historic artifacts or for the purpose of locating lost or abandoned personal property of another, unless such person specifically is authorized by the owner of that personal property to make such search on the owner's behalf."

It was the blanket, county-wide ban that stuck in my craw. I don't advocate tearing up nicely maintained grass, landscaping and groomed athletic fields at all. Lord knows, I'm also a taxpayer. That said, there is a lot of "open space" out there.
 
Rock Jock said:
"It shall be unlawful for any person to search any park or other area owned or operated by the county for recreational purposes for historic artifacts or for the purpose of locating lost or abandoned personal property of another, unless such person specifically is authorized by the owner of that personal property to make such search on the owner's behalf."

It was the blanket, county-wide ban that stuck in my craw. I don't advocate tearing up nicely maintained grass, landscaping and groomed athletic fields at all. Lord knows, I'm also a taxpayer. That said, there is a lot of "open space" out there.
Click to expand...


No, it's not "everywhere in the county". It's only county owned land (Eg.: county parks). Thus it has no impact on city parks, or state property, or federal property, or private property.

And quite frankly, I bet that even on county parks, that as long as you weren't snooping on obvious sensitive monuments, you'd be hardpressed to find anyone who cares. No one's going to care that you are looking for the ring your wife lost last week.

Also: Notice that it's only historical artifacts that are covered. Well gee, then I guess modern clad isn't included (I never find old coins, do you ? :roll: ).

Or if someone tries to morph "lost property" to include people's pennies, then : I'm only looking for nuggets or meteorites. Obviously I say this in jest (locker room talk) but .... it's actually been employed in the CA sierra foothills. Where, yes : People legitimately look for nuggets. Which are NOT included in such language. And in other parts of the USA, people actually look for meteorites. Which are natural and from space. Not made by man, not "historic" etc....

Obviously I would not try to use these legit "outs" in an obvious historic sensitive monument (they're not going to buy it). But for other routine innocuous parks : Presto, I've only found modern clad. :roll:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
No, it's not "everywhere in the county". It's only county owned land (Eg.: county parks). Thus it has no impact on city parks, or state property, or federal property, or private property.

And quite frankly, I bet that even on county parks, that as long as you weren't snooping on obvious sensitive monuments, you'd be hardpressed to find anyone who cares. No one's going to care that you are looking for the ring your wife lost last week.

Also: Notice that it's only historical artifacts that are covered. Well gee, then I guess modern clad isn't included (I never find old coins, do you ? :roll: ).

Or if someone tries to morph "lost property" to include people's pennies, then : I'm only looking for nuggets or meteorites. Obviously I say this in jest (locker room talk) but .... it's actually been employed in the CA sierra foothills. Where, yes : People legitimately look for nuggets. Which are NOT included in such language. And in other parts of the USA, people actually look for meteorites. Which are natural and from space. Not made by man, not "historic" etc....

Obviously I would not try to use these legit "outs" in an obvious historic sensitive monument (they're not going to buy it). But for other routine innocuous parks : Presto, I've only found modern clad. :roll:
Click to expand...

I have hunted 3-4 parks in that county without any problem. In fact on one park that was once the county's boys orphan home the maintenance supervisor was quite interested in if I found anything and he said it was ok with him to hunt the property. There are some parks in the county that are too well maintained and located in upscale/gentrified neighborhoods with I suspect too many Karens so I stay away from those.

In another county in metro Atlanta at Lake Allatoona, controlled by the Corp of Engineers there is a lot of gold nugget hunting in the many creeks that dump into the lake. Are they Corp property or state/city? don't know but it seems the gold hunters hunt there with zero problem based on all the public info on the internet on their diggings.
 
maxxkatt said:
I have hunted 3-4 parks in that county without any problem......
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Maxxkatt, you have hunted these spots "without any problem". Right ? THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT ! Ie.: If no one cares, then .... NO ONE CARES ! :roll: So: Why are you coming on here posting cut-&-pastes, riling me up ?? Are you just trying to upset this bee in my bonnet ? Are you just trying to be cruel ? :laughing:
 
Rock Jock said:
"It shall be unlawful for any person to search any park or other area owned or operated by the county for recreational purposes for historic artifacts or for the purpose of locating lost or abandoned personal property of another, unless such person specifically is authorized by the owner of that personal property to make such search on the owner's behalf."

It was the blanket, county-wide ban that stuck in my craw. I don't advocate tearing up nicely maintained grass, landscaping and groomed athletic fields at all. Lord knows, I'm also a taxpayer. That said, there is a lot of "open space" out there.
Click to expand...

I will add coins are not personal property so we should be allowed to retrieve them🙂:yes:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Maxxkatt, you have hunted these spots "without any problem". Right ? THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT ! Ie.: If no one cares, then .... NO ONE CARES ! :roll: So: Why are you coming on here posting cut-&-pastes, riling me up ?? Are you just trying to upset this bee in my bonnet ? Are you just trying to be cruel ? :laughing:
Click to expand...

I just want to show people that even with draconian park anti-metal detecting rules you just go ahead and keep a low profile and hunt. I even always keep some 3 ringers on me to give to the park employees who are friendly toward me and a lot of them are.

But I use commons sense. There are parks with ball fields that are not always locked. On those fields I don't take a shovel but rather two brass probes and recover shallow coins and even a ring once. The standard Lesche type shovel with a 31" handle are the real Karen triggers. Hand held digger less so of a trigger and a brass probe people can easily see you are not disturbing the the turf. And in metro Atlanta most parks are just a mixture of natural grass and weeds cut close. The exceptions are the areas with soccer and baseball fields. They tend to be nicely sodded grasses and well maintained.

I would like to report to you that I popped a lot of LC's using my brass probes. But I cannot since seems that LC's are pretty rare in metro Atlanta. I thinks some of my buddies have found them at larger old homes about 60 miles outside of Atlanta. Getting permissions for old homes in metro Atlanta is darn near impossible since these beautiful old two story homes from the late 1800's are owned by wealthy people who don't relish anyone on their property for any reason other than landscapers.

Footnote: There are newbies joining this forum every day. Bringing up these issues from time to time does give them the opportunity to learn and not ask any government official ever for permission to hunt this or that property. Tom is right. First of all you will NEVER get a yes and most likely will wake a "lets make a rule" guy or gal in that department.
 
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Quoted from maxxkatt's post:
"But I use commons sense. There are parks with ball fields that are not always locked. On those fields I don't take a shovel but rather two brass probes and recover shallow coins and even a ring once. The standard Lesche type shovel with a 31" handle are the real Karen triggers. Hand held digger less so of a trigger and a brass probe people can easily see you are not disturbing the the turf."

I agree whole heartedly with this. I think long handled shovels are as big of an issue as asking for permission on public property. I understand it may be easier to make a neat plug with a shovel, but it's all about perception. It also makes me sick to see how careless some of the youtubers are in retrieving the target and replacing the plug. If the plug is not pressed down well, there's a good chance the mower will suck it right out of the ground. In public areas, we all need to be extra particular about doing our best to not leave any sign of disturbing the soil/sod.
 
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