Houston area parks and public property

Tom, Paging Tom.

Bagelbites said:

Tom, Paging Tom.

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I'm confused lol who's Tom

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Bagelbites said:

Tom, Paging Tom.

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SilverSlayer98 said:

I'm confused lol who's Tom ...

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haha, I guess my reputation precedes me It's a bee in my bonnet topic. Ok, let's analyze what you are saying :

SilverSlayer98 said:

... It seams everywhere I turn I find out that metal detecting is prohibited. ....

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Can you please shed light on that first, so that we can derive an answer ? Are you A) finding true and actual laws/rules that say "No MD'ing" ? Or are you B) bumping into individuals that say "No", when you ask "Can I metal detect ?".


Although it might *seem* to be one-&-the-same, yet: There's an important distinction. So answer first where you are getting "prohibited" from, and then we can address your question.

Unless there is a PHYSICAL SIGN ON SITE prohibiting detecting of a public property, I hunt it. Schools, parks, a sliver of land I know belongs to the city....it’s mine. And you know what? Nobody cares.

Hahaha ! Welcome to Tom's World !

Tom_in_CA said:

haha, I guess my reputation precedes me It's a bee in my bonnet topic. Ok, let's analyze what you are saying :







Can you please shed light on that first, so that we can derive an answer ? Are you A) finding true and actual laws/rules that say "No MD'ing" ? Or are you B) bumping into individuals that say "No", when you ask "Can I metal detect ?".





Although it might *seem* to be one-&-the-same, yet: There's an important distinction. So answer first where you are getting "prohibited" from, and then we can address your question.

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I'm new to the forum lol I know Harris county parks (my county) are a no go. It's posted on signs and their website explicitly. The other parks are no posted historical landmark parks, etc. Others don't have explicit rules but when I asked about a nearby park that was a city of Houston park (not owned by Harris county parks department) they said all Houston parks are a no go yet there are no rules explicitly saying it. I know I know nobody cares till I asked. I was mainly trying to figure out if it was owned by Harris county or not. When I asked she said it's owned by the city not the county and that I couldn't detect there either. So I asked about the rest of Houston city parks and she said no as well.

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SilverSlayer98 said:

I'm new to the forum lol I know Harris county parks (my county) are a no go. It's posted on signs and their website explicitly. The other parks are no posted historical landmark parks, etc. Others don't have explicit rules but when I asked about a nearby park that was a city of Houston park (not owned by Harris county parks department) they said all Houston parks are a no go yet there are no rules explicitly saying it. I know I know nobody cares till I asked. I was mainly trying to figure out if it was owned by Harris county or not. When I asked she said it's owned by the city not the county and that I couldn't detect there either. So I asked about the rest of Houston city parks and she said no as well.

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Harris County Precinct 4 website says you can hunt about 17 of their parks.

The list is on their website.

Harris County:
Metal detecting is permitted only in parks that do not border Spring Creek or Cypress Creek, including: Bane Park, Bauer Park, Bayer Park, Doss Park, Dyess Park, Emnora Park, Froehner Park, Hellums Park, Independence Park, Lindsay-Lyons Park, Lloyd Park, Mathews Park, Matzke Park, MUD 257 Park, Mulrooney Park, Pitner Park, and Southwell Park. For reasons of protecting cultural artifacts, all other Precinct 4 parks not listed above do not allow metal detecting.
https://www.hcp4.net/assistance/questions/

But, the main county website says you can't even bring in a metal detector. Sounds like they aren't on the same page. I'd print that page and keep it on me if challenged.

ToySoldier said:

Harris County Precinct 4 website says you can hunt about 17 of their parks.



The list is on their website.



Harris County:

Metal detecting is permitted only in parks that do not border Spring Creek or Cypress Creek, including: Bane Park, Bauer Park, Bayer Park, Doss Park, Dyess Park, Emnora Park, Froehner Park, Hellums Park, Independence Park, Lindsay-Lyons Park, Lloyd Park, Mathews Park, Matzke Park, MUD 257 Park, Mulrooney Park, Pitner Park, and Southwell Park. For reasons of protecting cultural artifacts, all other Precinct 4 parks not listed above do not allow metal detecting.

https://www.hcp4.net/assistance/questions/



But, the main county website says you can't even bring in a metal detector. Sounds like they aren't on the same page. I'd print that page and keep it on me if challenged.

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This is great information and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

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Same as you, I couldn't find anything for the city parks. Not in the Park Rules and Regulations and not in their 42 page long park rules and regulations. That might be one of the most detailed park ordinance documents I've ever seen. Rules for everything. Yet, "metal detect" doesn't appear anywhere in the document. Given all of the opportunity to mention it in either the general rules or the detailed document, they didn't. So, clearly it wasn't their intent to ban it........right?

SilverSlayer98 said:

.... It's posted on signs and their website explicitly.....

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And I have a sneaking suspicion of how/why that came to be. Care to take a guess ?

SilverSlayer98 said:

.... Others don't have explicit rules....

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Then, let me ask you : Why isn't "silent on the subject" good enough ? If there is "nothing explicit" (ie.: neither an express allowance or disallowance), then why isn't that golden ? Ie.: If something is not forbidden, then presto, it's not disallowed, right ? Why do you think something has to have an express allowance ? Do you see an express allowance for flying frisbees ?

SilverSlayer98 said:

.... but when I asked about a nearby park that was a city of Houston park (not owned by Harris county parks department) they said all Houston parks are a no go yet there are no rules explicitly saying it. ....

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Welcome to the "no one cared till you asked" club.

SilverSlayer98 said:

... I know I know nobody cares till I asked.....

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yup

SilverSlayer98 said:

.... I was mainly trying to figure out if it was owned by Harris county or not.....

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Then why didn't you just ask that ?

Just be the park grasshopper...

I assume Houston, like most cities has some condemned/ abandoned properties for sale. If you ask to metal detect they will say no, but if you ask if you can go on the property to take measurements and "stuff" they will say yes, at least Springfield, Mo did

I also like to keep track of property my city is buying. My county just bought a bunch of farmland for a new jail and the city bought a couple of properties for 2 new fire stations. As soon as they announce they are buying it I'm there until fences or official signs tell me I can't be.

While I'm out and about I pay attention to city, county, school, and parks dept grass cutting crews. I have found many properties that were government owned that I never would have thought of.

In Columbia, TN the ordinance reads "no digging in city parks". The city uses this clause not to allow metal detecting.

MidTN said:

In Columbia, TN the ordinance reads "no digging in city parks". The city uses this clause not to allow metal detecting.

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Mid-TN : I got news for ya : There's not a single park, in the entire USA, that doesn't have verbiage to that effect. Eg.: "Alter" , "deface", and perhaps even sometimes with the specific evil word "dig" somewhere in the boiler plate obligatory minutia.

Yet a quick look up and down the pages of md'ing forums show & tell will reveal that tons of us are (gasp) hunting public parks. How can that be ? Are they/we all lawless miscreants ?

I don't doubt that someone *could* say that this disallows us. Sure, and yes they can "scram" you based on this language. Sure . Here's a post that addresses that :

http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=278842

MidTN said:

In Columbia, TN the ordinance reads "no digging in city parks". The city uses this clause not to allow metal detecting.

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Tom_in_CA said:

Mid-TN : I got news for ya : There's not a single park, in the entire USA, that doesn't have verbiage to that effect. Eg.: "Alter" , "deface", and perhaps even sometimes with the specific evil word "dig" somewhere in the boiler plate obligatory minutia......

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I'll disagree with you on that one, Tom. There's A LOT less left to interpretation with "no digging" compared to "don't alter, deface, or damage." Very few parks have a "no digging" rule in their ordinances, much less posted on site.

I was at a permission last year and noticed a small park around the corner. When I was finished at the permission I walked over to the park and looked at the Park Rules sign. First rule: "No digging. That means you and your dog." Until then I had NEVER seen "no digging" on a park sign, although I've seen it in a few ordinances online. Obviously somebody must have done something extraordinarily stupid.

Keep in mind, I said "less interpretation" with "no digging". I didn't say "none". I'm not convinced that all of the authors of these various rules were thinking about metal detectorists using a 6" hand tool. After all, if you're going to write a 40 page book of ordinances it seems odd to get coy when it comes to mentioning metal detecting specifically if the intent is to ban it. Whether it was their intention or not, do the current officials still interpret it the say way? Unfortunately, you can't know unless you either go do it or (*GASP*) go ask. The only clear thing about the general "no digging" rule is that it doesn't actually ban detecting per se. You could easily and safely take the temperature of the place by wandering around with a detector. If the SWAT team is sent out, then you know how digging plugs....I mean...cutting plugs...would have gone over. Or, it might be the case at that particular park with those particular officials that they aren't applying it to detectorists using hand tools.

I'm amazed when I see videos of people using the half shovels in sports fields. Obviously there are cities and towns where nobody seems to care if somebody is using a mini-shovel for metal detecting. But, I simply won't do it in a park or school. If somebody drives by and sees me strolling along with my metal detector, I'm not going to give off the impression that I'm "digging holes". They'll think "Oh, look at that dork looking for dropped quarters and lost rings" and forget about me.

ToySoldier said:

I'll disagree with you on that one, Tom. There's A LOT less left to interpretation with "no digging" compared to "don't alter, deface, or damage." ....

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Toy-soldier, let's examine and unpack your statement above.

It sounds like YOU AGREE with me that , yes, words like "alter" and "deface" are less problematic for us. And I'm willing to bet that the reason you intuitively know this, is that if we leave no trace of our presence, then presto: We haven't alterED or defacED anything . Right ? In other words, the very words themselves IMPLY an end result. Right ?

Yet the word "dig" seems more problematic. And at first blush, I'd agree.

So ask yourself : What is the difference between alter and alterED ? What is the difference between deface and defacED ? (this isn't a trick question) . Easy : Present tense vs past tense. Right ? And it appears that you agree that we are therefore not guilty of this, right ? (lest every single park in the USA is immediately off-limits to us).

Are we on the same page so far ? If so, proceed :

Therefore : What is the difference between dig and dug ? THE EXACT SAME THING !! Just present tenses vs past tense. The only issue is a spelling issue. Ie.: we don't spell it "diggED". Right ? If we did spell it that way, then you'd agree , eh ?

Naturally not everyone on earth will agree with those semantics. Fine then: Go at lower traffic hours and avoid such kill-joys.

Tom_in_CA said:

Toy-soldier, let's examine and unpack your statement above.

It sounds like YOU AGREE with me that , yes, words like "alter" and "deface" are less problematic for us. And I'm willing to bet that the reason you intuitively know this, is that if we leave no trace of our presence, then presto: We haven't alterED or defacED anything . Right ? In other words, the very words themselves IMPLY an end result. Right ?

Yet the word "dig" seems more problematic. And at first blush, I'd agree.

So ask yourself : What is the difference between alter and alterED ? What is the difference between deface and defacED ? (this isn't a trick question) . Easy : Present tense vs past tense. Right ? And it appears that you agree that we are therefore not guilty of this, right ? (lest every single park in the USA is immediately off-limits to us).

Are we on the same page so far ? If so, proceed :

Therefore : What is the difference between dig and dug ? THE EXACT SAME THING !! Just present tenses vs past tense. The only issue is a spelling issue. Ie.: we don't spell it "diggED". Right ? If we did spell it that way, then you'd agree , eh ?

Naturally not everyone on earth will agree with those semantics. Fine then: Go at lower traffic hours and avoid such kill-joys.

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I don't believe it ! You finally said the magic word Tom ; Semantics ! Or what I like to call : talking in circles. Dig or dug ? Cmon bro.
I would like to see you behind that sign , with a cop in front of that sign , with you retrieving your find from under the ground. Let's see what happens.....oh wait...they got to go stop some looters !

KOB said:

....
I would like to see you behind that sign , with a cop in front of that sign , with you retrieving your find from under the ground. Let's see what happens......

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But what is *strange*, is that : MD'ing is going on in parks ALL ACROSS THE USA ? How can that be ? Every single one of them will have some variation of "alter", "deface" "vandalize" and sometimes even the word "dig". Yet all of which can be construed to mean "don't poke the grass". Ok, so you tell me: How is that md'ing is common place in parks ? If you doubt this, take a look at the show & tell forums here, and you'll see scores of posts of (gasp) md'ing in the parks. And I'll bet you that a lot of them are occurring in parks where it might even use the evil "D" word in their minutia.

It's going to boil down to a test of common sense : You KNOW that as long as you're not leaving any trace, then .... seriously .... that's all that matters.

Does that mean that ever last lookie-lou on earth will roll out red carpets for you and I ? No, of course not. Fine, then go at more discreet times when singular said lookie-lous aren't present. You're simply not going to please every last person on the planet. If that's what you wanted out of a hobby, then md'ing is the wrong hobby. A better hobby would be passing out $100 bills. Then yes, everyone would love and adore you.

Maybe someone who lives in Houston can set this straight. According to you tube, Houston cops are quick to get physical. Until or unless someone counters this, you might want to keep that in mind if you’re new and “act accordingly “, like they say in the movies.