Disappearing faint high tone signals

[djramey1975]

Just got the legend not too long ago.... I get faint high tone signals now & again.... I'll hear them once or twice then can't seem to locate it again.... Could this be deep iron with the wrap around effect?

 

[Diga]

I deliberately set my detectors to run slightly "hot". Meaning, I deliberately set them up to give the occasional false and/or wrap around signal. That way, I know it's running at its maximum sensitivity potential for the conditions.

What you're experiencing is probably wrap around if the signal is giving the maximum ID number. Iron falsing typically gives an ID around the nickel or mid size foil range. If the issue was occurring constantly enough to be a problem at a particular site, then options would be to reduce the sensitivity as necessary, raise the Iron Filter as necessary, or raise the Bottle Cap Reject as necessary.

 

[AirmetTango]

Yes, that is one possibility. Are you using a discrimination pattern that eliminates any of the iron range? If it is wrap around/iron falsing, you’ll often hear the iron on some of the sweeps, as long as you don’t have those notched out. Depending on your soil’s mineralization level, your sensitivity settings, and even the frequencies you’re using, the machine could be falsing on itty-bitties that aren’t very deep. Could also be intermittent or weak EMI.

 

[Diga]

AT posted while I was writing my post.

AT makes a good point about it also being intermittent or weak EMI. However, it depends on what ID you see when you get that type of signal. Almost all EMI will ID lower than the copper range. As such, if you're seeing an ID that is in the very high conductor range, it's almost guaranteed that it's not EMI.

 

[MasonDixonMding]

I hunt a lot of open fields. When I do I have my machine turned up as high as I can stand. I don’t notch anything out. I want to hear everything. Running this way I get a lot of falsing. What I do when I get a light signal that I think is falsing. Is I use pin point mode to find the target in the center of my coil than wiggle just a little bit. If it’s falsing on iron now it will sound like iron.

 

[djramey1975]

Thanks for the tips.... Got a lot to learn about this machine & excited about it.

 

[hoser]

On my E-Trac I can switch between discrim and all metal with the push of a button. That has ALWAYS given me an idea what I was looking at. That has helped me a lot.

 

[markinmichigan]

Are you running in all Metal? I lower the sensitivity slightly when I'm getting too much EMI sounds. Different areas and conditions will determine your settings.

Mark in Michigan

 

[djramey1975]

Are you running in all Metal? I lower the sensitivity slightly when I'm getting too much EMI sounds. Different areas and conditions will determine your settings.

Mark in Michigan

Usually in field mode

 

[jmaclen]

Usually in field mode

What discrimination setting are you using=A, G, F, C?
What iron filter setting are you using=0 to 9?
What iron volume setting are you using?
How many tones?
M1, M2 or M3?
Are you ground balancing?

 

[djramey1975]

What discrimination setting are you using=A, G, F, C?
What iron filter setting are you using=0 to 9?
What iron volume setting are you using?
How many tones?
M1, M2 or M3?
Are you ground balancing?

1-10 notched out.... Discrimination f.... Volume 6.... M1.... I do ground balance

 

[jmaclen]

1-10 notched out.... Discrimination f.... Volume 6.... M1.... I do ground balance

Iron filter setting? Number of tones?

I can understand why you would use the F discrimination pattern. It makes for a more pleasant audible experience if there is any iron around. However, those faint, occasional high tones could be small or deep iron targets giving partial high tone audio responses. Since those iron bits could be small or deep, they may not activate the Ferro-Check feature.

So with the low tone iron audio rejected, you are basically detecting half blind on most iron targets and could get high tone responses on some iron targets swinging in one direction, turn 90 degrees and then get nothing on those sweeps.

If your iron filter is set too high you could also have the opposite happening. Deeper or smaller non-ferrous targets that are near iron targets or are being influenced by moderate to high iron mineralization could have partial non-ferrous responses and partial iron-like responses that are also being rejected by the F discrimination pattern setting and may or may not show up as ferrous/non-ferrous targets on Ferro Check

 

[TheFrood]

Still learning my Legend... Can you explain what the F discrimination pattern means? I read the words
when going through the manual but not sure what manipulating it will do... I usually use A under the
theory that it will make noise with iron this way...

Sorry, Thank you!

 

[markinmichigan]

Page 11 of manual. All Metal, Ground Effect Off, Ferrous Off, Custom (Notch Discrimination). I don't relic hunt so I usually run F.

Mark in Michigan

 

[AirmetTango]

Still learning my Legend... Can you explain what the F discrimination pattern means? I read the words
when going through the manual but not sure what manipulating it will do... I usually use A under the
theory that it will make noise with iron this way...

Sorry, Thank you!

Page 10 in the v1.11 manual. Yep, you have the right idea Frood. “A” for “All Metal” keeps all target IDs active on the Legend, allowing you to hear everything that the machine detects, and see an ID if the signal is strong enough. “F” for “Ferrous Off” deactivates the expected ferrous range of target IDs from 1-10. If you run the coil over iron in this discrimination pattern, theoretically the machine will stay silent and show no target ID regardless of how strong the signal. I say theoretically, because we all know that iron that is large or of certain shapes can confuse the machine, resulting in “falsing” where an individual swing over the target may show either low tone iron or it may show higher tone non-ferrous. Heck, if the target is large or dense enough and produces enough conductivity, some iron rings up completely non-ferrous.

Advantages to using “A” would be that it can be easier to identify falsing iron because you hear the iron grunts along with the high tone on those mixed targets. You also have a better chance of catching those deeper non-ferrous targets that are getting so overwhelmed by the surrounding ground matrix signals that they get dragged into the ferrous range, if you’re good at that sort of thing (I’m not that good!). More subtle advantages include being able to hear when the mineralization or small iron concentration in the soil is increasing or decreasing, meaning that it may be time to adjust your swing speed and/or recovery speed setting, or even change coils. Disadvantages are that the machine will definitely generate a greater cacophony of signals that can be overwhelming or annoying to some.

Advantages to using “F” would be a quieter running machine and an “easier on the ear” detecting experience, and the ability to effectively skip over obvious iron. Disadvantages include a higher probability of getting fooled by those mixed targets, or not knowing when to adjust your swing or recovery speed because you can’t see or hear the iron component (assuming you don’t use a reference threshold setting). You’ll also miss out on those very deep non-ferrous signals that drift into the ferrous range (again, I don’t have direct experience with this, but gold hunters will tell you this is pretty common with small gold targets).

 

[BobOso]

I have had many faint signals that vanish, using a number of detectors, legend,manticore,deus,nox etc. What I have found here in AZ is the mineralization causes the problem and the detectors will ground balance out the signal.I've tried to dig a few, dig 12-14 inches and find nothing. The detector is usually right,very seldom do I find anything.