Talk me in or out of a Pulse machine

L_Bo · Sep 28, 2010

I live along the MD/DE coast and 99.9% of my detecting is at the beach. I currently use a 1280-X which is good, good for a VLF detector. The problem I find with it is I don't seem to get much depth with it, ever. I can always (even in dry sand) pull whatever up in one scoop.

I took it out in waist high water today for the first time. (wow, totally different and much more challanging then I thought) It worked OK, found some rusted nails, snow fence pieces, clad, and other junk.

I sought the advice from a professional treasure hunter today on a PI machine. (http://www.discoversea.com/Director.html) He's a dealer for both Whites and Fisher detectors and recommended keeping the 1280 and learning how to use it better. Suggested turning the sensitivity down, way down, and that sensitivity doesn't equal depth. He said the only time he uses a PI is when diving wreck sites.......... feels as though I would get frustrated digging all the junk. He mentioned he is a member of many clubs and would watch people with VLF machines scooping the good stuff while he was wasting time digging trash. For all the 1000's of VLF machines he has sold maybe 20 PI machines, and of those 20 a few wanted to return them. He also suggested to try and find someone with a PI and rent/borrow/use it for a couple days to see if it's really what I want.

Great advice, especially from a well respected professional. It totally changed my perspective and outlook on PI machines. Granted, I know you dig it all. I just feel as though I am missing out especially when the dry beach gets sanded over.

I am looking for comments from those who have used both and those who recommend a PI for the beach. Is it too much work and not worth the hassle?

Cfmct · Sep 28, 2010

Choice is yours to make...

I have a VLF for dry sand hunting and some wet sand hunting but in the water a PI is king... there is less trash and one who gets good with his machine will find the goodies a high end VLF will not even hear so the choice as I said is yours... you do not need a VLF in the water... most light trash is in the wet sand or dry stuff and if you find iron in the water as I said you can tell with a PI when you are over iron... iron has a long drawn out tone whereas a coin or ring will be a narrow tone... I started waterhunting with a PI... I will always favor a PI over a VLF in the water... I have the Sovereign GT which is the non waterproof version of the Excalibur and its the perfect dry/wet (iron infested ) sand machine.. I have used a Excalibur in the water and it was no where near as deep as my PI is... so I went back to the PI.

L_Bo said:
I live along the MD/DE coast and 99.9% of my detecting is at the beach. I currently use a 1280-X which is good, good for a VLF detector. The problem I find with it is I don't seem to get much depth with it, ever. I can always (even in dry sand) pull whatever up in one scoop.

I took it out in waist high water today for the first time. (wow, totally different and much more challanging then I thought) It worked OK, found some rusted nails, snow fence pieces, clad, and other junk.

I sought the advice from a professional treasure hunter today on a PI machine. (http://www.discoversea.com/Director.html) He's a dealer for both Whites and Fisher detectors and recommended keeping the 1280 and learning how to use it better. Suggested turning the sensitivity down, way down, and that sensitivity doesn't equal depth. He said the only time he uses a PI is when diving wreck sites.......... feels as though I would get frustrated digging all the junk. He mentioned he is a member of many clubs and would watch people with VLF machines scooping the good stuff while he was wasting time digging trash. For all the 1000's of VLF machines he has sold maybe 20 PI machines, and of those 20 a few wanted to return them. He also suggested to try and find someone with a PI and rent/borrow/use it for a couple days to see if it's really what I want.

Great advice, especially from a well respected professional. It totally changed my perspective and outlook on PI machines. Granted, I know you dig it all. I just feel as though I am missing out especially when the dry beach gets sanded over.

I am looking for comments from those who have used both and those who recommend a PI for the beach. Is it too much work and not worth the hassle?

FL-Hunter · Sep 29, 2010

I have an Excal II and love it. How deep do you want to dig in the water? I use my Excal in pinpoint mode (All Metal Mode) while in the water. Very little trash in there where I hunt. I have dug targets well over 2 feet. The Excal will allow you to use it on land or water and you have the choice to discriminate different metals. Yes a a PI machine will go slightly deeper, no doubt (they also have larger coils) but I ask you again, how deep do you want to dig in the water?

I dig 3ft holes often in dry sand with my Excal and an occasional 4ft hole but those 4ft holes are always iron or aluminum cans.

Cfmct · Sep 29, 2010

FL-Hunter said:
I dig 3ft holes often in dry sand with my Excal and an occasional 4ft hole but those 4ft holes are always iron or aluminum cans.

Just about any detector can do that FL...

Cans,iron... all detectors will find those targets deep...

With a pulse in the water the user has the advantage over a VLF user... its up to the OPer to decide what he wants to do with the machine... the Excal is a great machine its discrimination is top notch in iron infested areas... I owned one, I know its capabilities quite well and I also know its not as deep as a pulse detector even in PP mode...

I use the GT for areas not great for a PI but the PI is the only machine I will use in the water and clean wet sand...

Personally... I rather see everyone use VLF machines so I have less competition

Surf Master · Sep 30, 2010

Cfmct-PI,i respect your postings,never owned a PI,just excals,i could not think to dig in the water more than two ft other than find a rusty nail,can you honestly state you can tell what your objects are before you dig that 3 ft hole in the water? 2nd?your opinion what are the best top 3 Pi machines,finally i live in Maryland,not far from the De-Md beaches,if you ever come down this way maybe we all could get together,and you could show us what those PIs could do again'st the excals,courious minds here,if not Beach nut is only a few miles from here he has a Excal, and infinium ill get together with him,If the guy at the musium the postee was refuring to is Dale,he knows for sure,i respect his statements also.I ask you ?s about the PI only because thats probally my next machine thanks Earl

Cfmct · Sep 30, 2010

Surf Master said:
Cfmct-PI,i respect your postings,never owned a PI,just excals,i could not think to dig in the water more than two ft other than find a rusty nail,can you honestly state you can tell what your objects are before you dig that 3 ft hole in the water? 2nd?your opinion what are the best top 3 Pi machines,finally i live in Maryland,not far from the De-Md beaches,if you ever come down this way maybe we all could get together,and you could show us what those PIs could do again'st the excals,courious minds here,if not Beach nut is only a few miles from here he has a Excal, and infinium ill get together with him,If the guy at the musium the postee was refuring to is Dale,he knows for sure,i respect his statements also.I ask you ?s about the PI only because thats probally my next machine thanks Earl

I can tell when the target is too big to be worth digging sure... a PI user is listening for narrow targets if a whisper target starts getting wide after a couple of digs I stop... some may think I am cocky but I'm not... I'm good with a PI as are my hunting partners... we don't dig much more trash than a VLF user does because we know our machines and know what to listen for...

as to the best detectors... I'm going to go with the Whites Dual Field, the Detector Pro Headhunter and probably an Eric Foster machine...

L_Bo · Oct 1, 2010

Thanks for all the feedback in helping me to decide. I am still up in the air about it.

Surf Master said:
If the guy at the musium the postee was refuring to is Dale,he knows for sure,i respect his statements also.

It was Dale, Dale Jr. Good guy and knows his stuff for certain and as a visitor of his museum numerous times over the years and various discussions with him I do value his opinion.

So what I am understanding is that;

1) There is less trash in the water then there is on dry sand

2) You can train your ear to hear what junk sounds like

If that is correct then I am leaning towards a PI machine. I wish there was a way to test on out for a couple days to get the feel for it and learn. Last thing I would want to do is spend big money on a machine that would get me frustrated and as a result not get used.

Appreciate the feedback, seriously.

FL-Hunter · Oct 1, 2010

While the Dual Field is a great machine and PI's are great as well, I will stick with my Excal II.

In all fairness, there are several detectors out there that are excellent machines, but the person using it is equally as important if not more important than the machine itself. I know people who own both DF & Excals and they don't have success with either one. Knowing your machine and being proficient at it is more valuable than the machine itself.

Likes & Dislikes, the DF does not have enough buoyancy to keep the coil down in the water comfortably, the coil is larger and more difficult to swing in the surf unless it is perfectly still out there.
The Excal is easier from those perspectives. I have used both and I know "Cfmct-PI" you really love your DF and for good reason, but I still love my Excal and for other good reasons. I have gone behind
other Excals, DF, PI Pro's etc and picked up things those people have missed as well. You are no doubt extremely proficient with your machine and maybe matched up against me being the same with my
Excal you may swoop up a bit more than me, but if you do, I'm OK with that. I'm not digging any deeper than my 18-24" in the water and I'm cool with that.

http://metaldetectingforum.com/member.php?u=32

Cfmct · Oct 1, 2010

FL-Hunter said:
While the Dual Field is a great machine and PI's are great as well, I will stick with my Excal II.

In all fairness, there are several detectors out there that are excellent machines, but the person using it is equally as important if not more important than the machine itself. I know people who own both DF & Excals and they don't have success with either one. Knowing your machine and being proficient at it is more valuable than the machine itself.

Likes & Dislikes, the DF does not have enough buoyancy to keep the coil down in the water comfortably, the coil is larger and more difficult to swing in the surf unless it is perfectly still out there.
The Excal is easier from those perspectives. I have used both and I know "Cfmct-PI" you really love your DF and for good reason, but I still love my Excal and for other good reasons. I have gone behind
other Excals, DF, PI Pro's etc and picked up things those people have missed as well. You are no doubt extremely proficient with your machine and maybe matched up against me being the same with my
Excal you may swoop up a bit more than me, but if you do, I'm OK with that. I'm not digging any deeper than my 18-24" in the water and I'm cool with that.

http://metaldetectingforum.com/member.php?u=32

So where do you carry the yard stick? :roll:

An Expert once told me those who claim exorbitant depths make other owners of the machine call the factory asking why they aren't getting those same numbers... alot of times one thinks he is digging that deep only to find out his target is flooping around in the hole and the searcher is chasing it..

FL-Hunter · Oct 2, 2010

Cfmct-PI said:
So where do you carry the yard stick?

An Expert once told me those who claim exorbitant depths make other owners of the machine call the factory asking why they aren't getting those same numbers... alot of times one thinks he is digging that deep only to find out his target is flooping around in the hole and the searcher is chasing it..

My long scoop handle is my yard stick. My depths are accurate esp. when the item is still way down below in my hole and i find it with my pin pointer. Others have witnessed the depths as well.

Cfmct · Oct 3, 2010

L_Bo said:
Thanks for all the feedback in helping me to decide. I am still up in the air about it.

It was Dale, Dale Jr. Good guy and knows his stuff for certain and as a visitor of his museum numerous times over the years and various discussions with him I do value his opinion.

So what I am understanding is that;

1) There is less trash in the water then there is on dry sand

2) You can train your ear to hear what junk sounds like

If that is correct then I am leaning towards a PI machine. I wish there was a way to test on out for a couple days to get the feel for it and learn. Last thing I would want to do is spend big money on a machine that would get me frustrated and as a result not get used.

Appreciate the feedback, seriously.

It takes patience with any detector out there... a PI is going to be deeper than a VLF ... if you are looking for depth a Pulse Induction machine is the way to go... for the most part there is less trash in the water than on the wet sand and dry stuff.. for the dry stuff and some wet a VLF option is a good choice... With the PI you want to listen for the deepest whispers targets those are very quiet breaks in the threshold tone... you can discriminate with a PI by the tone... but you have to put your time in with the detector... with my Dual Field PI a piece of iron is going to have a long drawn out wow type sound, so will a can top and if you hear this ignore it and move on... a bobbiepin, piece of wire, nail will have a choppy broken tone again you can ignore it... with a PI you want to listen for narrow tones... with a PI you will have the advantage... saying all that a VLF has its place on the beach... one more thing... if your beaches are iron infested like New Jersey then maybe a PI is not the way to go... the choice is yours to make... what I do is use the PI in the wet sand and water and use the Sovereign GT in the areas of wet sand I know have alot of iron trash and the dry sand plus dirt dig...

A PI only has 1 tone but there can be variations to that tone...

Cfmct · Oct 3, 2010

FL-Hunter said:
My long scoop handle is my yard stick. My depths are accurate esp. when the item is still way down below in my hole and i find it with my pin pointer. Others have witnessed the depths as well.

FL-Hunter said:
I passed up 3 targets as the surf was getting harder to deal with. I tried for 15+ minutes per hole and then lost the targets, so I had to move on.

Those are your own words FL... maybe this is why you post those numbers.. no one will post actual numbers while waterhunting because there is no true way of telling... targets flop around all the time in the hole while digging..

Surf Master · Oct 4, 2010

Well guys i like to try different machines,i have 4 Excalibur units,i will buy a new Whites Surfmaster Dual Field,i will switch off,learn the machines, bottom line is,i will have a good time using both machines,Mding is not limited,the choice of machines is yours.Good luck leave me some loot guys.

S.S.Tupperware · Oct 4, 2010

I do well with my DF... I don't have much trash where I hunt. In the dry sand I have a DFX with an 18 in Excellerator. It's frustrating to try and use for a dry sander. For the water its great. PP is easy and just need to learn how to recover efficiently and move on. If your area is trashy, move on. I just am leery of Minelabs with their poor repair/ breakdown records. I am interested a Tesoro for my fresh water lake.

L_Bo · Oct 14, 2010

I got to swing a dual field last week. Thanks to another memeber on here who was in town, nice of him. In the hour or two I found around 20 cents in clad and 7 or 8 pieces of snow fencing. (stupid fencing sliced my finger good too LOL)

I can see if the area was less trashy, or if I can descriminate my ears to hear iron it is a nice machine and a PI is the way to go. In the meantime I was looking and thinking about Excaliburs, specifically the original. I understand the older ones perform better then the new ones and see used originals going for $700-$800. Then I read around more and more on the company Minelabs.

S.S.Tupperware said:
I do well with my DF... I don't have much trash where I hunt. In the dry sand I have a DFX with an 18 in Excellerator. It's frustrating to try and use for a dry sander. For the water its great. PP is easy and just need to learn how to recover efficiently and move on. If your area is trashy, move on. I just am leery of Minelabs with their poor repair/ breakdown records. I am interested a Tesoro for my fresh water lake.

I see a lot more of this. Have seen comments that make me leary of getting a Minelabs if I ever need service on it, especially if laying out seven or eight bills on a used no warranty machine.

So, still undecided. Maybe I will just swing the 1280-X Fisher for a while. I just loose sensitivity in the wet sand........ but was told sensitivity does not equal depth. I don't know.

What's another good salt water machine in VLF? If I get a PI it would be the Dual Field.

Cfmct · Oct 15, 2010

L_Bo said:
I got to swing a dual field last week. Thanks to another memeber on here who was in town, nice of him. In the hour or two I found around 20 cents in clad and 7 or 8 pieces of snow fencing. (stupid fencing sliced my finger good too LOL)

I can see if the area was less trashy, or if I can descriminate my ears to hear iron it is a nice machine and a PI is the way to go. In the meantime I was looking and thinking about Excaliburs, specifically the original. I understand the older ones perform better then the new ones and see used originals going for $700-$800. Then I read around more and more on the company Minelabs.

I see a lot more of this. Have seen comments that make me leary of getting a Minelabs if I ever need service on it, especially if laying out seven or eight bills on a used no warranty machine.

So, still undecided. Maybe I will just swing the 1280-X Fisher for a while. I just loose sensitivity in the wet sand........ but was told sensitivity does not equal depth. I don't know.

What's another good salt water machine in VLF? If I get a PI it would be the Dual Field.

Waterhunt with the PI... go with a Sovereign GT for the dry stuff... that is my set up.. if I was to purchase another Excal it would be a older model... like Excal New York ( Gary Storm machine) or the Excal 1000 which I owned...

burlbark · Oct 17, 2010

L_Bo said:
I got to swing a dual field last week. Thanks to another memeber on here who was in town, nice of him. In the hour or two I found around 20 cents in clad and 7 or 8 pieces of snow fencing. (stupid fencing sliced my finger good too LOL)

I can see if the area was less trashy, or if I can descriminate my ears to hear iron it is a nice machine and a PI is the way to go. In the meantime I was looking and thinking about Excaliburs, specifically the original. I understand the older ones perform better then the new ones and see used originals going for $700-$800. Then I read around more and more on the company Minelabs.

I see a lot more of this. Have seen comments that make me leary of getting a Minelabs if I ever need service on it, especially if laying out seven or eight bills on a used no warranty machine.

So, still undecided. Maybe I will just swing the 1280-X Fisher for a while. I just loose sensitivity in the wet sand........ but was told sensitivity does not equal depth. I don't know.

What's another good salt water machine in VLF? If I get a PI it would be the Dual Field.

Do you like to dig watches and pocket knives? If you do than you should not run any discrimination and you need to dig it all.

The Whites Dual field is the detector to do this with. You just need to buy a large scoop. I have a 8"x12" scoop(Stealth 08) that recovers most targets in 1 or 2 scoops. Unless it is a very deep large target. You really should dig everything at the beach.

There is absolutely know way to tell 100% of the time with a PI machine what the target is. Dimes on there side will sound like a nail. Deep quarters will sound like a deep can. Bobby pins sound like a shallow dime.

You have to dig it all.

I like digging it all and have 3 beaches that I hit on a regular basis. They are getting cleaner every day and I take pride in it. I also have been finding old tumbled silver coins that the vlf detectors cant see. I must be up to 20$ in old tumbled coins that a several dozen detectorist have passed over.

Talk me in or out of a Pulse machine

L_Bo

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Cfmct

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Surf Master

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L_Bo

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