Treasure Trove?

[Jennings]

no cash, but prestige

Jennings, so you find a famous historical item that is worth a lot of money as an artifact but is worthless in melt value, like this statue.

How do you turn it into cash?

If I trespassed, as this guy did, and found an artifact of value, I'd either go to the landowner and level with him fully expecting a bad result, or I'd say I found the item in some other location. I understand its value is historical not liquid as with gold. To trespass, find the goods and then moan about losing it bespeaks of a less than fully formed brain if you ask me.

I guess I should say he failed out of the gate. He did not get permission. It was not his land to begin with. If you carefully read my stuff you'll notice I do not condone trespass. I only condone keeping ANYTHING you find on your own land or the land of another you have permission to dig.

What the public at large has been made to believe by the archeological society is that they (the public) is not capable, or worthy, of digging finds on their own land and then dispensing said finds to museums, schools, or collectors on their own. This is the height of haughtiness. The only reason people in positions of having found gold artifacts (as an example) melt them down to make scrap value money is because they know if they turn them in it might take years to get a return and then only a percentage because it's highly likely much of it will be "disappeared" while in holding. Plus their land will be scrutinized along with their every move going forward.

You are correct if you think I do not trust authority. I do not. Give most persons in power a chance to chisel and they will. We see it all the time in politics, sports, law enforcement, Wall Street, and, yes, archeology where precious metal, gems, or prestige is at stake. Some of the most insecure and limelight seeking humans inhabit the ranks of the different sciences. If you are involved in any kind of academic research that is competitive you fully understand. I've been among these types. They are little frightened people for the most part with some authority. This is dangerous. I want no part of them. You would be smart to avoid as well.

Jennings

 

[Jennings]

Read

Dan, if you have not read all the stuff on Mel Fisher and Barry Clifford with regards to the nonsense they endured with their respective treasure/pirate ship finds you should. The only thing that surprised me was the strength of spirit these men have or had. (Clifford is still alive)

That they did not lose their minds is amazing. At every bend in the road they were set upon by preservationists who never even knew about the old ships in the first place. Some of these morons didn't even want the sites searched because they felt they should be left in their pristine condition.

What kind of thinking is this? This from educated men. These idiots didn't even know the ships existed until these men found them. How could bringing them to the public's knowledge and then abandoning them make any sense at all?

As for common, poorly educated people not being worthy of good salvage? Clifford and especially Fisher (both lovable bums) did more to advance modern underwater recovery techniques and grid mapping than anyone before them. They somehow worked out the problems they encountered without the handicap of being educated beyond one's capacity.

Jennings

 

[dan]

If I trespassed, as this guy did, and found an artifact of value, I'd either go to the landowner and level with him fully expecting a bad result, or I'd say I found the item in some other location. I understand its value is historical not liquid as with gold. To trespass, find the goods and then moan about losing it bespeaks of a less than fully formed brain if you ask me.

I guess I should say he failed out of the gate. He did not get permission. It was not his land to begin with. If you carefully read my stuff you'll notice I do not condone trespass. I only condone keeping ANYTHING you find on your own land or the land of another you have permission to dig.

What the public at large has been made to believe by the archeological society is that they (the public) is not capable, or worthy, of digging finds on their own land and then dispensing said finds to museums, schools, or collectors on their own. This is the height of haughtiness. The only reason people in positions of having found gold artifacts (as an example) melt them down to make scrap value money is because they know if they turn them in it might take years to get a return and then only a percentage because it's highly likely much of it will be "disappeared" while in holding. Plus their land will be scrutinized along with their every move going forward.

You are correct if you think I do not trust authority. I do not. Give most persons in power a chance to chisel and they will. We see it all the time in politics, sports, law enforcement, Wall Street, and, yes, archeology where precious metal, gems, or prestige is at stake. Some of the most insecure and limelight seeking humans inhabit the ranks of the different sciences. If you are involved in any kind of academic research that is competitive you fully understand. I've been among these types. They are little frightened people for the most part with some authority. This is dangerous. I want no part of them. You would be smart to avoid as well.

Jennings

All this is well and good, but you didn't answer my hypothetical question. My apologies if I was vague; let's try again:

Somebody finds an item that has historical value but no melt value, on private property, without permission to hunt.

The item is well-known, and everybody knows the item is somewhere on a particular private property, they just don't know exactly where. So if it surfaces, it is obvious to everyone that whoever found it was trespassing.

SO... is there a way for the finder to profit from said find?

And if you decide you can't make a profit with it, do you turn it over to the archeologists, or quietly leave it on the farmer's porch, or what?

That is the question I was trying to ask.

 

[dan]

Dan, if you have not read all the stuff on Mel Fisher and Barry Clifford with regards to the nonsense they endured with their respective treasure/pirate ship finds you should. The only thing that surprised me was the strength of spirit these men have or had. (Clifford is still alive)

That they did not lose their minds is amazing. At every bend in the road they were set upon by preservationists who never even knew about the old ships in the first place. Some of these morons didn't even want the sites searched because they felt they should be left in their pristine condition.

What kind of thinking is this? This from educated men. These idiots didn't even know the ships existed until these men found them. How could bringing them to the public's knowledge and then abandoning them make any sense at all?

As for common, poorly educated people not being worthy of good salvage? Clifford and especially Fisher (both lovable bums) did more to advance modern underwater recovery techniques and grid mapping than anyone before them. They somehow worked out the problems they encountered without the handicap of being educated beyond one's capacity.

Jennings

This story so closely parallels that of Edwin Armstrong and the invention of FM radio that it's scary. Armstrong had the brains, David Sarnoff (NBC-RCA) had the money, and Sarnoff made Armstrong's life a living hell for 20 years until finally Armstrong committed suicide.

Armstrong invented FM radio, got the patents, no question whatsoever, but Sarnoff tied him up in fraudulent court cases for 20 years. Armstrong spent every cent he had defending himself; Sarnoff kept battering him with lawsuit after lawsuit.

At least Fisher won in the end.

I know this has little to do with treasure hunting, but since I taught broadcasting for 25 years, the Armstrong-Sarnoff mess comes to mind whenever I hear stories of big guys who are in the wrong lording it over little guys who are in the right.

 

[Jennings]

A Plan

Dan, I have to admit the trespassing finder screwed himself. I think I mentioned earlier that If I did trespass and found such an item I'd go to the landowner and level with him. Try to explain the situation and offer to take him into my plan to find as much of the stuff as I can with a split of some kind in the future with him.

I would not expect this to work. So, as I said earlier, I might be tempted to claim I found the object somewhere else. Let those who say they know this can't be true to prove otherwise. But in all honesty, a man in such a position is in no position at all. The artifact is worthless money-wise. I'd probably just give it to the landowner and apologize. Let him know what it is. He can take it from there.

I'm not a trespasser, it's not possible in my mind to really defend this guy.

But should the find be on my own property? Not a soul would know until I had exhausted the search after years. And then only after I'd made clever ransom requests leaving me in the clear. If you think this is not possible, you have never paid much attention to the contents of major museums. Almost all gold, gem and valuable antiquity articles in the major museums are purloined pieces paid for in quiet ways.

Jennings