Donsell
Forum Supporter
You're welcome. I think it's a powerful machine, but no machine is perfect. I'd love the chance to test it against other machines.
Thoughts on the Rutus Alter 71
- Thread starter Donsell
- Start date
You're welcome. I think it's a powerful machine, but no machine is perfect. I'd love the chance to test it against other machines.
Alright folks,
Received Rutus Alter 71 detector this morning.
Donsell has said he doesn't mine my posting what I have to say about Rutus in his thread here.
In the long run,,I think this will make it easier for folks who are seeking info about this detector on this forum.
My unit is a unit that doesn't have version software update.
Assembly of unit,,,probably the easiest I've seen so far,,simple.
Just look at the picture on front of manual and do.
This video I think is a good one talking about the menu system.(not my video)
More to come later today on this unit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ILr5_8phwo
Received Rutus Alter 71 detector this morning.
Donsell has said he doesn't mine my posting what I have to say about Rutus in his thread here.
In the long run,,I think this will make it easier for folks who are seeking info about this detector on this forum.
My unit is a unit that doesn't have version software update.
Assembly of unit,,,probably the easiest I've seen so far,,simple.
Just look at the picture on front of manual and do.
This video I think is a good one talking about the menu system.(not my video)
More to come later today on this unit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ILr5_8phwo
ghound
Elite Member
Donsell
Forum Supporter
I look forward to your thoughts too, Tn.
I didn't speak much to the ergonomics of the Alter, I'm not as sensitive to fit and feel as some. But I thought its build was very sturdy. No flex or weak points that I picked up on. Some are concerned with the grip, but I had no problems with it. It fits the hand well but offers no cushioning.
It does have built in wireless with 2 channels. There is a module that's sold separately that you wear on your belt and plug your headphone into. I don't have that yet.
It's a little heavier than the AT Pro.
I'd really like to see it up against the AT Max. They're about the same prince, but the Alter seems to offer a lot more.
More Rutus data.
Overall weight and feel of unit is IMO nice,,not heavy feeling.
Both coils.
Btw. Concentric measures 8.125" outside to outside diameter.
Supposed 11" dd measures 11".
I even with little time I have run this unit,,this unit designed to be a Deus killer for the $$$. Question is, is it??
Using concentric coil user likely not to dig steel bottle caps, hodograph paints a good pic of junk target,,a backwards C in the meter. Haven't tried DD coil yet to see what happens here.
Depth is dependent on mask setting,,meaning for fringe depth the lower the better.
Interesting how they gave a user options here to have their targets ID in the meter.
Three choices real-- ID is directly reflective of frequency run and conductivity of target.
Then 2 other options,,you can select either 6khz or 12khz for target ID normalization.
So with saying all this here is some data using each of the above selections for target ID.
I should say the Rutus uses a different scale when comparing to most other detectors-- 0-120.
Some data
Real ID option selected and frequency selected on detector at max 18.4khz
Nickel....79
Clad dime..110
Zincoln penny..103
Copper penny..110
Clad quarter..114
Normalized setting of 6khz selected,,detector still set to 18.4khz
Nickel..52
Clad dime..94
Zincoln penny..80
Copper penny..94
Clad quarter..105
Normalized setting of 12kh selected,,detector still set to 18.4khz
Nickel..66
Clad dime..105
Zincoln penny..95
Copper penny..105
Clad quarter..112
Frequency changed on detector to 7khz,,real ID option selected
Nickel..55
Clad dime..99
Zincoln penny..86
Copper penny..99
Clad quarter..107
Frequency still at 7khz,,6khz normalization selected
Nickle..54
Clad dime..98
zincoln penny..85
Copper penny..98
Clad quarter..107
Frequency still at 7khz,,12 khz normalization selected
Nickel..68
Clad dime..108
zincoln penny..99
Copper penny..107
Clad quarter..112
Preliminary test using 3D test with coin and nails,,detector seems above average with what I see,,,Deus like results,,,not giving either detector yet no advantage,,with time maybe.
Audio,,,Rutus audio not as smooth as Xp Deus,,not as blendy sounding,,leans more toward what I call beeps. This is not meant to say Rutus audio is terrible or anything.
I am still trying to nail down how I want my tones set up using the user programs,,,not there yet.
Does take time though,,user must select each number TID wise and singularly adjust,,,no blocking of groups of tones to adjust.
I do reserve the right here to correct anything I say about this detector in the future.
From what I can tell right now,,Rutus will retain settings when turned off.
Turn back on,,user will need to ground balance though.
Also what ever you have selected,,this is where the cursor will be when you go back in and open menu-- not sure if this happens if you turn detector off though.
Now,,here is where other manufacturers like White's should be paying attention,,Xp as well.
I have read countless Internet forum threads and post associated with just when does the White's V3i and even the Vx3 model need to be ground balanced.
Rutus depending on what you change setting wise will give you ground balance prompt.
This is exactly what White's should have done on the 2 models I mention here.
Xp Deus,,you change freqs,,ground balance doesn't carry over,,should be a prompt..
Now detector companies,,if they do this for future models,,,they could offer a way to override the prompt,,so it doesn't appear in screen. This might be more handy for someone say who is more experience with the detector in question.
Emi,,this detector ranks right up there as being one of the quietest I have run for Vlf,,,even runs as quiet IMO as CTX and etrac,,and DST Fisher units.
Now this from judging in 2 different places with loads of light wires,,and a few transformers.
I should also say,,this concentric coil I received with Rutus is the very first one I have ever owned,,I did run a gents White's XLT with concentric some 6 years ago for around 15 minutes.
Navigating around using Rutus is different,,but not hard,,just gotta get used to it.
Unit seems to ground balance nicely here in my soil.
More to come.
Overall weight and feel of unit is IMO nice,,not heavy feeling.
Both coils.
Btw. Concentric measures 8.125" outside to outside diameter.
Supposed 11" dd measures 11".
I even with little time I have run this unit,,this unit designed to be a Deus killer for the $$$. Question is, is it??
Using concentric coil user likely not to dig steel bottle caps, hodograph paints a good pic of junk target,,a backwards C in the meter. Haven't tried DD coil yet to see what happens here.
Depth is dependent on mask setting,,meaning for fringe depth the lower the better.
Interesting how they gave a user options here to have their targets ID in the meter.
Three choices real-- ID is directly reflective of frequency run and conductivity of target.
Then 2 other options,,you can select either 6khz or 12khz for target ID normalization.
So with saying all this here is some data using each of the above selections for target ID.
I should say the Rutus uses a different scale when comparing to most other detectors-- 0-120.
Some data
Real ID option selected and frequency selected on detector at max 18.4khz
Nickel....79
Clad dime..110
Zincoln penny..103
Copper penny..110
Clad quarter..114
Normalized setting of 6khz selected,,detector still set to 18.4khz
Nickel..52
Clad dime..94
Zincoln penny..80
Copper penny..94
Clad quarter..105
Normalized setting of 12kh selected,,detector still set to 18.4khz
Nickel..66
Clad dime..105
Zincoln penny..95
Copper penny..105
Clad quarter..112
Frequency changed on detector to 7khz,,real ID option selected
Nickel..55
Clad dime..99
Zincoln penny..86
Copper penny..99
Clad quarter..107
Frequency still at 7khz,,6khz normalization selected
Nickle..54
Clad dime..98
zincoln penny..85
Copper penny..98
Clad quarter..107
Frequency still at 7khz,,12 khz normalization selected
Nickel..68
Clad dime..108
zincoln penny..99
Copper penny..107
Clad quarter..112
Preliminary test using 3D test with coin and nails,,detector seems above average with what I see,,,Deus like results,,,not giving either detector yet no advantage,,with time maybe.
Audio,,,Rutus audio not as smooth as Xp Deus,,not as blendy sounding,,leans more toward what I call beeps. This is not meant to say Rutus audio is terrible or anything.
I am still trying to nail down how I want my tones set up using the user programs,,,not there yet.
Does take time though,,user must select each number TID wise and singularly adjust,,,no blocking of groups of tones to adjust.
I do reserve the right here to correct anything I say about this detector in the future.
From what I can tell right now,,Rutus will retain settings when turned off.
Turn back on,,user will need to ground balance though.
Also what ever you have selected,,this is where the cursor will be when you go back in and open menu-- not sure if this happens if you turn detector off though.
Now,,here is where other manufacturers like White's should be paying attention,,Xp as well.
I have read countless Internet forum threads and post associated with just when does the White's V3i and even the Vx3 model need to be ground balanced.
Rutus depending on what you change setting wise will give you ground balance prompt.
This is exactly what White's should have done on the 2 models I mention here.
Xp Deus,,you change freqs,,ground balance doesn't carry over,,should be a prompt..
Now detector companies,,if they do this for future models,,,they could offer a way to override the prompt,,so it doesn't appear in screen. This might be more handy for someone say who is more experience with the detector in question.
Emi,,this detector ranks right up there as being one of the quietest I have run for Vlf,,,even runs as quiet IMO as CTX and etrac,,and DST Fisher units.
Now this from judging in 2 different places with loads of light wires,,and a few transformers.
I should also say,,this concentric coil I received with Rutus is the very first one I have ever owned,,I did run a gents White's XLT with concentric some 6 years ago for around 15 minutes.
Navigating around using Rutus is different,,but not hard,,just gotta get used to it.
Unit seems to ground balance nicely here in my soil.
More to come.
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ghound
Elite Member
TNSS,
'Depth is dependent on mask setting,,meaning for fringe depth the lower the better'
I think you meant reactivity rather than masking.
Once you get going with the cc you'll find it's a decent coil for certain situations, kinda Mojave style lol
'Depth is dependent on mask setting,,meaning for fringe depth the lower the better'
I think you meant reactivity rather than masking.
Once you get going with the cc you'll find it's a decent coil for certain situations, kinda Mojave style lol
No I meant mask setting.
Yeah depending on ground minerals,,the lower the better for reactive setting as well.
I have a target pretty deep,,concentric coil will bark on it slightly with mask setting in 0 and a little bit in a 1 setting,,setting level of 2 and higher signal goes bye bye altogether. And this is with not adjusting any other setting.
I think this mask setting,,is a lt like Imask on Impact and Nokta Relic model detector ,as far as what it does. I could be wrong though.
And like the silencer setting on Xp Deus.
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ghound
Elite Member
I must check that out.
The masking will hide a target more at depth if it falls near any area that has been disced or notched, i run zero notch and disc at small nails so maybe i'm not noticing it's effect as much.
The masking will hide a target more at depth if it falls near any area that has been disced or notched, i run zero notch and disc at small nails so maybe i'm not noticing it's effect as much.
I had my disc set to 32 when I did the test and noticed.
More data
Gain setting,,,run it full bore 60,,all targets pretty much sound the same (loudness) (ideally).
Level 30 setting,,provides some nice proportional depth tone wise on targets.
User likely with approx 30 gain setting won't be digging shallow targets based on strength of tones.
My 10" deep nickle,,,I experimented with running the freq all the way down and started raising incrementally.
My take here,,,run at 12khz or higher for the deeper nickels.
4.4khz and progressing upwards I could definitely tell target was a lower conductor,,,at 12khz nickel comes alive.
Also running in reactive settings 1-3,, user would be hard pressed to miss this nickel with 11" dd coil ttached to Rutus,,very forgiving swing speed,,coil position to get an op to put the brakes on.
I like how this detector give you a reading when GBing is completed,,user if they will watch they will know if they balanced coil over metal.
Detector can be balanced over metal sometimes at least.
Pinpoint trigger has nice location and is smooth.
The batteries for this detector not located where most detectors are located,,they are located underneath and more towards the front position wise.
I am positive this really helps with overall detector balance.
One note here.
My Rutus rod is in the shortest configuration possible,,it fits me perfect this way,,I am 5'11" tall,,,,I could see where a person say 5'6" tall or shorter may find this detector too long for them.
Just heads up.
I have also seen where one gent is 6'1 or 2" and says Rutus isn't long enough for him. He must have some real short arms.
Btw,,my wing span with arms and torso are a carbon copy of my height,,I am as they say very proportionally built body wise.
I stated above concentric coil tells on bottle caps with hodograph,,just remember a coin colocated with ferrous I.e. Nail could fool you here.
11" dd coil here doesn't do as well as concentric,,,person will notice hodograph display trying to switch directions on bottle caps,,,but the same warning here as noted above applies to the dd coil as well as concentric for good targets colocated with iron as far as relivslvity factor of data displayed.
Preliminary results show,,running sensitivity to max 90,,, may not be the best thing to do,,I have witnessed some audio wash out,,level 85 much better signal quality wise on targets. This could have some thing to do with my soil too.
More later
Make take a few pics of some of the detector.
Here is a pic of detector wearing 11" dd coil.
Pic of rear of detector,,,notice the headphone jack,,takes the standard big one I call it.
Pic of detector turned on its side,,notice the speaker on the bottom,,one might want to be careful laying in wet whatever,,I didn't get a stand with mine.
Close up shot of 11" dd coil,,notice the ears,,coil mounting seems to allow for no slop,,meaning coil with moderate bolt torque remains stationary.
Gain setting,,,run it full bore 60,,all targets pretty much sound the same (loudness) (ideally).
Level 30 setting,,provides some nice proportional depth tone wise on targets.
User likely with approx 30 gain setting won't be digging shallow targets based on strength of tones.
My 10" deep nickle,,,I experimented with running the freq all the way down and started raising incrementally.
My take here,,,run at 12khz or higher for the deeper nickels.
4.4khz and progressing upwards I could definitely tell target was a lower conductor,,,at 12khz nickel comes alive.
Also running in reactive settings 1-3,, user would be hard pressed to miss this nickel with 11" dd coil ttached to Rutus,,very forgiving swing speed,,coil position to get an op to put the brakes on.
I like how this detector give you a reading when GBing is completed,,user if they will watch they will know if they balanced coil over metal.
Detector can be balanced over metal sometimes at least.
Pinpoint trigger has nice location and is smooth.
The batteries for this detector not located where most detectors are located,,they are located underneath and more towards the front position wise.
I am positive this really helps with overall detector balance.
One note here.
My Rutus rod is in the shortest configuration possible,,it fits me perfect this way,,I am 5'11" tall,,,,I could see where a person say 5'6" tall or shorter may find this detector too long for them.
Just heads up.
I have also seen where one gent is 6'1 or 2" and says Rutus isn't long enough for him. He must have some real short arms.
Btw,,my wing span with arms and torso are a carbon copy of my height,,I am as they say very proportionally built body wise.
I stated above concentric coil tells on bottle caps with hodograph,,just remember a coin colocated with ferrous I.e. Nail could fool you here.
11" dd coil here doesn't do as well as concentric,,,person will notice hodograph display trying to switch directions on bottle caps,,,but the same warning here as noted above applies to the dd coil as well as concentric for good targets colocated with iron as far as relivslvity factor of data displayed.
Preliminary results show,,running sensitivity to max 90,,, may not be the best thing to do,,I have witnessed some audio wash out,,level 85 much better signal quality wise on targets. This could have some thing to do with my soil too.
More later
Make take a few pics of some of the detector.
Here is a pic of detector wearing 11" dd coil.
Pic of rear of detector,,,notice the headphone jack,,takes the standard big one I call it.
Pic of detector turned on its side,,notice the speaker on the bottom,,one might want to be careful laying in wet whatever,,I didn't get a stand with mine.
Close up shot of 11" dd coil,,notice the ears,,coil mounting seems to allow for no slop,,meaning coil with moderate bolt torque remains stationary.
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Donsell
Forum Supporter
Great info, thank you ghound and tnss. I haven't had the chance to try the concentric coil yet. I was happy with the performance of the 11".
I did notice the hodograph flipping based on swing direction. I thought that's how it was supposed to work.
I did notice the hodograph flipping based on swing direction. I thought that's how it was supposed to work.
ghound
Elite Member
Something i haven't mentioned, it doesn't like coil scrubbing, a better response with the coil an inch above the ground.
Sweeping bottle caps with dd coil.
What I notice is the more towards the edges of coil when swept,,hodograph signature starts turning more left,,tone starts getting uglier too.
When cap is centered,,signature more appealing but will reverse on sweeps most of the time,,especially real shallow caps.
I hear some tone nuance going on,,but need to spend more time to nail it down.
5 mile
Forum Supporter
Tnss..that detector is very clean, for used. Air tests I've seen looked impressive, are you seeing that?
This detector I think was the one George Kinsey had original from new.
He was trying to get it back,,but I got instead.
He tests a lot of detectors,,,if he wanted another go with the Rutus,,,might tell us all some thing.
Speaking of which,,,Rutus seems in my ground to be more forgiving GB wise than even the mighty Deus.
I can get my 10" nickle using GB preset on Rutus,,,doing actual GB very little improvement on signal. I like that a lot.
Deus signal will improve moreso comparing a 90 GB to actual ground balance of approx 78 when doing pumping GB.
I still rate Deus as forgiving though in GB dept.
This aka Signum,,,no dice,,you have to be spot on,,or extremely little error to detect this nickel. It is wickedly GB sensitive for deeper targets,,,and with a improper GB even if you can hit the target,,,ID can be in error.
Donsell
Forum Supporter
How did the Impact do on that nickel?
I didn't check it today with Impact.
Had the smallest coil on it,,and had my hands full jostling Deus and Rutus.
Will post some comparison info including Impact though.
From an audio quality sound,,if I had to rack and stack using the 3 detectors.
Pole position Deus
Then Impact
Then Rutus
Ease of use between the three= Impact
Donsell
Forum Supporter
It doesn't surprise me that the Impact would be the easiest to use. I gambled on the Rutus because it was so customizable. It has programs that you can start on, but understanding all of the changes you can make takes a lot of time and effort to be proficient.
I'm hoping it'll be worth it in the long run.
ghound
Elite Member
https://youtu.be/rG6yxY0ffT8
Here's it on a few bits of gold jewelry, a fine chain 7" long, a small ring and a tiny speck of silver. I tried weighing the silver in grains on my scale but it was too small.
I had to put the targets on wooden sticks as the coil was picking up my bare hand, which ID's at 37 lol.
Running 2 tones, tone set to break at the nail in video, 18.4khz, max sens, 11"round coil.
It's a bit chatty, i think my camera phone was a bit close but you get the idea of whats going on.
It's a bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing, it hides it power well, really looking forward to Rutus bringing out a smaller DD sniper coil.
I did also try the F19 in all metal with the 12.5x8.5 coil, but i didn't show it as it wasn't a fair comparison.
Here's it on a few bits of gold jewelry, a fine chain 7" long, a small ring and a tiny speck of silver. I tried weighing the silver in grains on my scale but it was too small.
I had to put the targets on wooden sticks as the coil was picking up my bare hand, which ID's at 37 lol.
Running 2 tones, tone set to break at the nail in video, 18.4khz, max sens, 11"round coil.
It's a bit chatty, i think my camera phone was a bit close but you get the idea of whats going on.
It's a bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing, it hides it power well, really looking forward to Rutus bringing out a smaller DD sniper coil.
I did also try the F19 in all metal with the 12.5x8.5 coil, but i didn't show it as it wasn't a fair comparison.
I am back on the Rutus trail this morning.
I thought I would share some additional thoughts and info here,,along with a pic.
The Rutus just might be one of the best modern trash hunting site detectors on the market today---especially for a single frequency detector.
I don't know if the manufacturer has a smaller coil currently or plan on doing one,,,IMO they should,,a dd coil 7" or 8" round would be fine.
Now,,I am still not ready to commit to how the Rutus is IDing targets in the ground. But I also feel,,,you must have a good starting point here with this,,to be able to arrive at a better place in the end (target identification).
Other manufacturers should be watching this detector and close.
Some ingenuity went into it.
It exposes a Deus weakness IMO and other detectors too.
What is this exactly.
With Rutus being able to normalize at 6khz,,yet being able to run the detector far, far away frequency wise,,,to detect even lower conductors,,and even allow the detector to separate better in iron.
Probably IMO the closet thing to FBS ID capabilities here,,,yet a single frequency detector.
Below is a pic showing some targets I have tested.
Notice the spread,,,remember a person not necessarily tied to just one freq or even a few freqs for detection with Rutus.
I will below the pic address the IDs provided.
Rutus was run using concentric coil,,at 11khz with 6khz selected for TID normalization.
I will talk about these targets starting from right to left.
First up a war nickel.. ID 53
Clad nickel 52
Square tab..57
Ring part 58
Tab part of ring pull 46/47
Btw I checked an intact ring pull w/tab,,the parts shown are part of,,the intact ring pull tab read 64
Big ring. 76
Pepsi alum twist cap 81
Pepsi free twist cap 81
Smashed alum cap 77
Zincoln 85
IH penny 1902. 78
Copper penny. 97
Purex lid 98
Yahoo cap. 50-56 with very dodgy hodograph
Last bigger target on left 80
Folks using Rutus should strongly consider setting up a nickel window for high tone,,say 50-54,, and then stop and judge and dig or not.
Now,,I do realize this is not all the targets(junk) a person could face in some sites,,but I do think this shows something nice here.
I will be doing some depth test soon,,and will be commenting on ID retention as the targets deepen.
I don't expect Rutus will be perfect here without any flaws,,,but I do need to see just how worthy based on soil conditions and depth it really is.
To add here,,I mentioned this before,,I really like how this detector just by the loudness with medium set gain on the shallow stuff. So in other words another way to discriminate.
I think this better spread here a result of combination of yes being able to normalize to 6khz and also the point system Rutus operates on 0-120 for items,,with nonferrous range from 31-120. Ingenuious.
Cheers
I thought I would share some additional thoughts and info here,,along with a pic.
The Rutus just might be one of the best modern trash hunting site detectors on the market today---especially for a single frequency detector.
I don't know if the manufacturer has a smaller coil currently or plan on doing one,,,IMO they should,,a dd coil 7" or 8" round would be fine.
Now,,I am still not ready to commit to how the Rutus is IDing targets in the ground. But I also feel,,,you must have a good starting point here with this,,to be able to arrive at a better place in the end (target identification).
Other manufacturers should be watching this detector and close.
Some ingenuity went into it.
It exposes a Deus weakness IMO and other detectors too.
What is this exactly.
With Rutus being able to normalize at 6khz,,yet being able to run the detector far, far away frequency wise,,,to detect even lower conductors,,and even allow the detector to separate better in iron.
Probably IMO the closet thing to FBS ID capabilities here,,,yet a single frequency detector.
Below is a pic showing some targets I have tested.
Notice the spread,,,remember a person not necessarily tied to just one freq or even a few freqs for detection with Rutus.
I will below the pic address the IDs provided.
Rutus was run using concentric coil,,at 11khz with 6khz selected for TID normalization.
I will talk about these targets starting from right to left.
First up a war nickel.. ID 53
Clad nickel 52
Square tab..57
Ring part 58
Tab part of ring pull 46/47
Btw I checked an intact ring pull w/tab,,the parts shown are part of,,the intact ring pull tab read 64
Big ring. 76
Pepsi alum twist cap 81
Pepsi free twist cap 81
Smashed alum cap 77
Zincoln 85
IH penny 1902. 78
Copper penny. 97
Purex lid 98
Yahoo cap. 50-56 with very dodgy hodograph
Last bigger target on left 80
Folks using Rutus should strongly consider setting up a nickel window for high tone,,say 50-54,, and then stop and judge and dig or not.
Now,,I do realize this is not all the targets(junk) a person could face in some sites,,but I do think this shows something nice here.
I will be doing some depth test soon,,and will be commenting on ID retention as the targets deepen.
I don't expect Rutus will be perfect here without any flaws,,,but I do need to see just how worthy based on soil conditions and depth it really is.
To add here,,I mentioned this before,,I really like how this detector just by the loudness with medium set gain on the shallow stuff. So in other words another way to discriminate.
I think this better spread here a result of combination of yes being able to normalize to 6khz and also the point system Rutus operates on 0-120 for items,,with nonferrous range from 31-120. Ingenuious.
Cheers
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