This is important.Read this!

[sgtwilks]

Sgtwilks, I could understand you initially getting upset with anti-police posts. You shared this story on a tread I started a couple days ago. I just want to let you and everyone know, I am not anti-police in any way. I respect the law and have family and friends in law enforcement. I was just upset at this particular police woman who thought it was necessary to insult me, then try to justify what she was doing with a bunch of BS. Then when she left, told me to "get your things and get out of here!" in a pissed off tone as if I personally did something to her.
Thinking about it know, I wish I were a cop (like in your story), pulled out my badge and said, no I will not leave. Let's go see that supervisor

In my case I believe the female cop was going to show another female she could push men around. I believe that and I believe I was going to be set up.

You should of asked her to Id herself. You should of asked her what am I violating?

I speak to everyone like they are people and I do expect the same back.

Your point stated I told the officer "no I wont leave"Not true I did comply with the officer. I left and went right to the police station and wrote an incident report off the notes I had with the names,times and posted rules.
I enclosed a picture of the rule sign as evidence. I also obtained the police report the officer wrote with the grounds keepers statements.

You can do all this.You can file an incident report without a charge anytime you want.The officer does this 2 or 3 times you could file a harassment charge on the officer.You better be right and know the rules.

I do not like dirty or lazy cops.As an officer you can get respect without mistreating people.

There are many offices to report these issues. You should not be afraid of the police.

 

[sgtwilks]

I want to make something clear. YOU MUST COMPLY with the officer when told to leave an area.DO NOT get into a pissing contest,you will lose.

Just get a name and badge number of the officer, go to the police department get the police report the officer wrote, cost 3 bucks,file and file an incident report with the who,what ,where,when and why.

Take a picture of the rule sign on the field you searched.I emailed the picture with my iphone to my email address because of the recorded date and time on emails.

Put two packages together and take one to the internal affairs officer at the same department and send the other to the attorney General at the divison of criminal justice.
The have seven days to contact you.

Even if nothing happens in line up these officers will be told by supervisors to stop bothering with this MD BS.

 

[ronfin]

I'm new to this and am really just appalled at the way this hobby is looked at. People need to respect people's rights. If someone came up to us (grounds keeper)and stated don't make a mess or don't go on the field during the season we understand that. Once you involve rights or the police you better be correct.

I have to admit when I started reading posts I was getting pissed about the anti police remarks but I can see a little more now of what you go through.

So glad you pushed it. I've been a retired MP now for some years, and my professionalism, honor, and integrity have never left me. When I ask someone for permission and it's granted, I abide by the rules that were set-forth, and on a few rare occasions I've met some real "know-it-alls" about what I'm doing, and how I'm "breaking the law", the "law" being the imaginary one these idiots make-up. It can be annoying at times. I always treat them with respect and speak to them in a calm tone and do my best to correct them, but at times it hasn't worked, and although they were wrong, I've taken the High Road and backed-off. I'd rather leave and come back another day rather than have a pissing contest with someone that is misinformed. I have even met a few police in my day that shouldn't be wearing a shield. I'm glad you took this matter and proceeded up the Chain of Command. That officer was violating the very law she swore to upheld, and was being a bully with a badge. You sir get my salutes. Great job, and although I HATE to see an officer lose their job or be demoted, in cases like this it had to happen. She needed a reminder of the very law she's suppose to uphold, and she should thank you for only having her demoted. Suspended with intent to dismiss would've been justified too. Again, great job, and thank you for posting this.

 

[Jhkramer]

that story made me so happy. someone got what they deserved.

 

[ronfin]

I hate to say it but you know it would have turned out a whole lot different if you didn't have that badge. They knew you had experience in the law & they couldn't BS you. If it was one of us without the badge we probably would have been sitting in the station handcuffed to a chair bolted to the floor & we would be fighting to get our MD equip back.

That is completely false. You don't need a badge to have knowledge of the Law and of your rights, and as long as you know what you're talking about, no one can bully you, even the police. The only effect his badge had at the time of the incident was tell the female officer he was a fello badge, and cut him a break. Hate to say it, but it's the harsh reality. You get the break others may not just being "on the job", but it also told her that he knew his rights and that what she was doing was wrong. That's what most-likely scared her the most, that she knowingly violated his rights like that and now was busted by a fellow badge. That's why she tried to BS with him and see that he didn't push it. Unfortunately for her he took it higher because it was wrong. If you or I had been handcuffed at a police station for this same incident you can bet people would be losing their jobs and the city getting a huge lawsuit for violating our rights in this case. I know I wouldn't let anyone with a badge bully me out of my rights. Nor should you.

 

[Milhaus]

Sorry but I disagree, most people don't understand what to do in a case like this because most people have never been in trouble with the law beyond a traffic violation.
Just because someone is a police officer doesn't mean they can't be a petty sack of ----. She started out with name calling and intimidation, that makes it clear enough.
Most of us would have ended up in cuffs with a trespassing charge, and if that dummy groundskeeper who originally called it in didn't come clean it would be a trespassing conviction.

That is completely false. You don't need a badge to have knowledge of the Law and of your rights, and as long as you know what you're talking about, no one can bully you, even the police. The only effect his badge had at the time of the incident was tell the female officer he was a fello badge, and cut him a break. Hate to say it, but it's the harsh reality. You get the break others may not just being "on the job", but it also told her that he knew his rights and that what she was doing was wrong. That's what most-likely scared her the most, that she knowingly violated his rights like that and now was busted by a fellow badge. That's why she tried to BS with him and see that he didn't push it. Unfortunately for her he took it higher because it was wrong. If you or I had been handcuffed at a police station for this same incident you can bet people would be losing their jobs and the city getting a huge lawsuit for violating our rights in this case. I know I wouldn't let anyone with a badge bully me out of my rights. Nor should you.

 

[ronfin]

You're assuming, and generalizing everyone without a badge as not being knowledgeable with the law, so your logic is flawed and incorrect. You can be charged with anything, but it doesn't mean it's legit and will hold-up. If there were grounds to cite someone for trespassing, then the officer could do so, but if they're not trespassing why would you assume they could just charge you with it? Everything he did could've been done WITHOUT a badge. It only affected the way the female officer viewed him once he badged her, and she realized she was screwed if he pressed it, which he did, successfully, and NOT because he was a police officer, but because he was a citizen that was mistreated and had his rights stomped all over. If you know you're right, comply with the moron directing you otherwise, then follow-up with it in the same manner in-which the OP did, and you'll get the same results. Knowledge is what's key here, not the tin on the leather.

 

[trsrseeker]

Thanks for your actions and for your post educating all the rest of us!

 

[Milhaus]

It can be generalized because it's true if you encounter a bad cop. Police have the knowledge and power to get innocent people convicted of crimes and we hear about it all the time. If you want to get into cold hard realities then justice has to be bought. On a serious charge like tresspassing and an added charge of taking things off the property depending on the state you could easily rack up $50,000 in legal fees without breaking a sweat. Oh is the Lesche considered a deadly weapon in your state? That is possession of a weapon during the commission on a crime with automatic years in prison in some states. The fact of the matter is knowing your rights doesn't mean anything if you are dealing with crooked people.

You're assuming, and generalizing everyone without a badge as not being knowledgeable with the law, so your logic is flawed and incorrect. You can be charged with anything, but it doesn't mean it's legit and will hold-up. If there were grounds to cite someone for trespassing, then the officer could do so, but if they're not trespassing why would you assume they could just charge you with it? Everything he did could've been done WITHOUT a badge. It only affected the way the female officer viewed him once he badged her, and she realized she was screwed if he pressed it, which he did, successfully, and NOT because he was a police officer, but because he was a citizen that was mistreated and had his rights stomped all over. If you know you're right, comply with the moron directing you otherwise, then follow-up with it in the same manner in-which the OP did, and you'll get the same results. Knowledge is what's key here, not the tin on the leather.

 

[OZARKS]

We appreciate you standing up for all of us! You did nothing wrong, and that needs to be recognized, as it is! Well done Sarge!

 

[VTACE250]

but don't lose sight....hate the act of the person (cop/groundskeeper)......but not the individual. It is the act or action that is wrong. Fine line to take it personal with individual.

 

[efahrenholz]

I always wonder about the legalities of hunting on school property. Is it the same as city parks?

 

[BetterThanFishin]

Yeah, I would like to add more but

Again, awesome direction you took sgtwilks.

 

[RyanChappell]

Simply Stunning!

The first thing out of the female cops mouth was what the f@@@ you doing Einstein? You don't stop what you doing when a cop is in the area?

The ignorant broads must have thought you thought you were doing something wrong, and that it was wrong to metal detect.

How ignorant must the groundskeeper be to think that you were damaging the grounds? Or was she just so green with jealousy thinking that you were getting rich finding gold chains and diamonds by the dozen, that it never occurred to her that you were not leaving giant holes behind, and asked the ignorant female cop that had been hitting on her for months to do something about it?

 

[ronfin]

It can be generalized because it's true if you encounter a bad cop. Police have the knowledge and power to get innocent people convicted of crimes and we hear about it all the time. If you want to get into cold hard realities then justice has to be bought. On a serious charge like tresspassing and an added charge of taking things off the property depending on the state you could easily rack up $50,000 in legal fees without breaking a sweat. Oh is the Lesche considered a deadly weapon in your state? That is possession of a weapon during the commission on a crime with automatic years in prison in some states. The fact of the matter is knowing your rights doesn't mean anything if you are dealing with crooked people.

If you encounter a "bad cop", that still doesn't equate into the whole system being bad. The DA, judge, and jury would all have to ignore the facts and just be there to "get you". *sigh* Again, this kind of logic is ridiculous, and you're being over-the-top. Sure there are bad police out there, and you can mistreated, but if you're in the right, and in the know, you're the one with an upper hand. You're not Serpico. Also, it depends on if you ARE trespassing to begin with, and if it's criminal trespassing, and a class D felony, but if you are knowingly trespassing, or even unknowingly trespassing because you failed to find out, then you deserve to be charged. What we're talking about is if you KNOW you're not violating any laws, and if you're not trespassing not even a 1,000 dirty cops could make a charge stick unless you're on property you're not suppose to be on. Oh, and to argue the Lesche can be used as a deadly weapon is no different than arguing a rock can be used as a deadly weapon, and it's the manner in which an item was used, how, where, and why that the State has the burden to prove. Just carrying the Lesche concealed at the very max could get someone a first degree misdemeanor, but come on, you're really going out on a stretch here to back-up your insane reasoning that if you're caught metal detecting by a "bad cop", that you're going to jail for criminal trespassing and your garden tool is the instrument in which you intended to harm someone with. ugh. Stop watching TV and immerse yourself in a book. You're nuts with this.

 

[dogpound]

PA is an open carry state so i can carry my lesche openly

 

[mrgsdsjg]

In my opinion if SgtWilks had not shown his badge the situation would have escalated. The fact that he has a badge let the officer immediately know that it was her word VS another law enforment officer's word. She couldn't bully him around because he had credibility AND knowledge. If it had been any random citizen the female cop probably would have denied how she treated them and would not have backed down like she did.

BTW, Way to go!

 

[Carol K]

What an awesome thread. Thanks for sharing this knowledge with us!

 

[TheCoilist]

So... NOW a lot of you might see the importance of video/audio in today's society.

A cheap audio recorder can be had for $25. See a cop approaching go ahead and hit record. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TURN IT OFF! They don't even need to be aware of it recording. You can do audio with no video or video with no audio and record, but not both unless you have permission. Best bet is to have audio, or a video camera pointed down to record the entire conversation.

If you don't have a pen and paper handy to write down all the details, this is the next best thing. I try and document as much as possible and have started carrying a video recorder with me for various reasons, one of which is this very situation. It helps, and it works. The treatment you receive (as non law enforcement) is best documented with visual/audio proof. Look at all the police involved incidents, rodney king, etc. etc. Without it, you have nothing.

Again, do as you're instructed to do, but you have legal rights and civil rights that can not be violated. It would be nice to hear more from SGT on how best to go about the "rules" of metal detecting, granted different by state/city I am sure.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Martin_V3i]

So... NOW a lot of you might see the importance of video/audio in today's society.

A cheap audio recorder can be had for $25. See a cop approaching go ahead and hit record. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TURN IT OFF! They don't even need to be aware of it recording. You can do audio with no video or video with no audio and record, but not both unless you have permission. Best bet is to have audio, or a video camera pointed down to record the entire conversation.

If you don't have a pen and paper handy to write down all the details, this is the next best thing. I try and document as much as possible and have started carrying a video recorder with me for various reasons, one of which is this very situation. It helps, and it works. The treatment you receive (as non law enforcement) is best documented with visual/audio proof. Look at all the police involved incidents, rodney king, etc. etc. Without it, you have nothing.

Again, do as you're instructed to do, but you have legal rights and civil rights that can not be violated. It would be nice to hear more from SGT on how best to go about the "rules" of metal detecting, granted different by state/city I am sure.

Thanks for the info!

I have seen way too many slap downs of both people and their cameras on TV to even follow this advice. Face it, we live in a police state when joe public can't legally video someone their tax dollars are paying.

I might do an audio recording, but I already have more junk to carry now than I like. I'd be far more prone to leave the hobby if these worries were with me every time I pulled the detector out. Sadly, it is getting to be just that way, and a big part why I was so slow to get off my home property once I bought a nice detector. I still get nervous just seeing a cruiser in the area. Hunting with others gives some solace though. martin