The "how you act" aspect of md'ing scrutiny issues

[Tom_in_CA]

Here's a topic to put out there, as it regards the age-old dilema we all fear: scrams, bootings, being questioned, whether or not you can or can't hunt a place, etc... All of that is no fun, right? No one likes "looking over their shoulder", right?

Consider the following, when it comes to the entire psychology of this:


When I was young, I had a friend who was about 20 yrs. The legal drinking here in CA is 21. He proudly boasted to me one day that he could get into any bar in town. I knew this couldn't be true, since I knew he wasn't legal age yet. But he persisted saying he could get into any bar in town. So I said to him: "Ah, then you must have fake ID, right?" (which was the popular method amongst under-age minors in my town, when I was young). But he replied: " nope, no fake ID. I just walk right into any bar in town." Now he REALLY had my curiosity up. So I gave in and asked him "ok then, how do you do it?"

What he said has always stuck with me. And it plays into the psychology of md'ing too: He said "I just walk right in like I own the place". [And mind you, this guy did NOT look 21 or older either]. Because you see: he had figured out that the only people the door bouncer cards, is those people who act skittishly, evasively, avoid eye-contact, walk a wide-berth as far as they can, etc.... So my friend would walk RIGHT UP to the bouncer with a giant smile, shake his hand and say "how ya doing tonight?" . And then walk right in. Never got carded.

So too do I think that a lot of the innocuous places we hunt (so outside the discussion of truly off-limits sensitive monuments, etc...) it's a lot of the same psychology. If someone is skittish, and eyes passerbys with the "oh no, does he see me?" persona, then sure enough, those passerbys will catch those vibes, and ask themselves : "Gee, what's that man doing?" And so forth.

 

[Ice Scratcher]

Yep!

Like a boss, its the only way IMO!!

<*)))>{

 

[Riffmeister]

valid point...

somtimes ive detected in places ive felt nervous... and didnt need to, only because i was worried about peoples attitudes, but i have definitly noticed for all the times ive walked in confident ive had no problems, like walking onto a beatiful park in suburbia in bakerfeild and start digging to find out the guys near me were local police- no harm ! another reason why its very important to fill your holes.....then we shouldnt have a reason to be paranoid.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

thanx for chiming in guys. After a few more folks chime in, I'll post a story where I got snared in this very psychology. Yeah yeah I know, Harvey and Stewart can't WAIT to hear another story, right? haha Besides, Tom_in_CA never gets booted d/t his ninja skills are just TOO good, right? ha

 

[Kemper]

Used the same philosophy when I started detecting in my city. Still to this day I have not looked up any city ordinance nor have I asked permission. I've lived here quite a while and had the feel of the city. I now know what my city's position is because one day someone called law enforcement on me while I was doing a curb strip. I now know I can do that curb strip anytime I wish. The most damaging piece of advice I've ever seen given on these permission threads is to tell someone to ask to detect a public place where there is no clear restriction on metal detecting. When we advise someone to take such a huge gamble as asking under these circumstances we are advising them to do something that could possibly, if not probably ,take away many if not all of their potential sites.

 

[stewart73]

Fascinating Tom. Yet another story about how to break the law and not get caught.

 

[Irons]

Yep!

Like a boss, its the only way IMO!!

<*)))>{

I'm always nervous driving to hunt a new lake I researched, nervous stays in the truck.

As soon as I step out and gear up it's Boss mode. I not only know the laws I frickin' own this body of water.

I tell folks who I am and that I look for old coins and give them my card and tell them to call me if I can find something for them.

Most people just want to know you aren't oogling their women and stealing their boat props. I never steal boat props.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Ok, so here's the example where the exhibited persona dictates a lot of whether you'll get scrutinized or not:

In my town, we have a few block "blighted" seedy area. Ie.: the vice district where the soup kitchens rescue-missions are, etc.... In the 1880s to 1920s, it was a vibrant china-town district, but decayed into the current blight of vacant lots, boarded up buildings, homeless people, etc..

There was a few side-by-side buildings that had long been vacant, by emminent domain (probably abandoned by owners in the 1950s or '60s as they simply had no economic usage anymore). Eventually, the buildings were torn down. Well you can bet this created great metal detecting opportunity, since this was the "board-&-batten district" of yesteryear. So my buddy and I were "all over this" as it got down to terra firma. Chinese cache coins, opium bottles, seateds and IH's, tokens, etc... Yum yum.

The street that passes by this lot is a one-way street. So it was easy to see any approaching cars, no problem. And when hunting this lot, we were highly visible to any passing cars. But.... I had the understandable ... uh ... trepedation that ... "what if someone gripes?" fears. And I also knew that since this was the vice-district of our city, that the cops make random drive-throughs (looking for parole violators, etc... as this was their area of town).

And sure enough, out of the corner of my eye, I spotted a police cruiser making one of his passes, coming slowlys down our street. So I instinctively froze, and looked his way. You know, like the feeling of "Oh no, is he going to see us?" "will he stop?" "will he say something?"

As the cop got to our part of the block, he eventually did turn, look our way, and see me. Our eyes locked for a micro-second, but ... at first ... he paid no mind. He is just continuing his back and forth glances at the entire street scene. But after progressing another slow 20 yards or so, his sweeping glance again comes my way. AND AGAIN I'm looking straight at him with an evasive crouched-down type look/position. But again, he just glances back forward, not stopping. Then another 20 yards, and I saw his brake lights tap, but ... at first, not stopping. Then another 10 yards and they tap on again. Then a full-stop. Then the back-up lights. Then he backs up to where we were, gets on his loud-speaker, and says something to the effect of "are you guys supposed to be in there?" Or "you guys have to leave there", or something to that effect.

hence our party was over

But it occurred to me though, that when he had first spotted us, he was not even going to stop. It was until I had continuous eye contact, of an evasive skittish nature, that .... the wheels-in-his-mind must've started turning. Otherwise, I bet he'd have simply kept on driving, and either not paid us any mind, or assumed we must be workers, or whatever.

This drove home the psychology to me of how the "act like you own" the place works.

 

[stewart73]

Tom, your stories only make sense if you're somewhere you're not supposed to be. If you're 21 and going into a bar (ie. not breaking the law) then it makes no difference if you're acting like you're 10 feet tall and own the place or acting humbly and meekly does it? And why were you so nervous in your second story? I would guess the answer would be because you knew you probably weren't supposed to be there. Do you think that if you had stood up tall and thumped your chest when the cop passed that he would have thought "Wow, that guy really looks like he knows what he's doing...I better get out of here" and you would not have been asked to leave? Interesting.

I know clearly where I'm allowed to detect so I don't need to worry about acting like I own the place to avoid being approached...or about acting 'too evasively' or whatever other troubles dog the illegal detectorist.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Stewart, I was hoping you wouldn't get "lost in the examples", but .... it was bound to happen. Forget for the minute the *exact* examples (the guy who went to bars, the Tom-in-CA hunting a demolition site, etc..). I just mean in general. Like, sure, I'm using this for admittedly questionable things (going into bars at 20 is, afterall, a no-no). But the same thing can also apply for the parks questions, when it's not really so clear. When it's more a matter of IF someone objects. (because, as you know, anyone can complain about anything, at any time, etc...). Just saying how a lot of times the trigger that can cause the "gee what's that guy doing" factor, can be the way we conduct ourselves.

And as for my old-town demo. story, no, I wouldn't "stand up and thump my chest" haha. But it was clear to me, that if I'd just done what I was doing, and not stopped, (or heck, maybe even a friendly wave and smile), that in that case, we'd have been left alone (believe me, they have bigger fish to fry in this area of our town).

 

[Steve77]

I have also noticed if you smile and nod at passers-by that they seem more at ease than if you stare them down or avoid making eye contact. Let us expand hypothetically of course, on Tom's example of the demolition site.

Let's use the same story, but just omit the metal detector. I would be willing to wager that the officer would have done the same thing. Not because of trespass, but due to suspicious body language.

Using the original demo example again, I doubt that had Tom smiled and waved that he would have drawn anywhere near as much suspicion. Anyone who has taken a psychology course knows that body language can convey far more than spoken words. Police officers are trained to constantly be aware of subtle body language.

 

[stewart73]

Stewart, I was hoping you wouldn't get "lost in the examples", but .... it was bound to happen. Forget for the minute the *exact* examples (the guy who went to bars, the Tom-in-CA hunting a demolition site, etc..). I just mean in general. Like, sure, I'm using this for admittedly questionable things (going into bars at 20 is, afterall, a no-no). But the same thing can also apply for the parks questions, when it's not really so clear. When it's more a matter of IF someone objects. (because, as you know, anyone can complain about anything, at any time, etc...). Just saying how a lot of times the trigger that can cause the "gee what's that guy doing" factor, can be the way we conduct ourselves.

And as for my old-town demo. story, no, I wouldn't "stand up and thump my chest" haha. But it was clear to me, that if I'd just done what I was doing, and not stopped, (or heck, maybe even a friendly wave and smile), that in that case, we'd have been left alone (believe me, they have bigger fish to fry in this area of our town).

If you are meaning the simple psychology that a person has less chance of being approached by a random person when they are acting like they are supposed to be in a place, then yes, I think that is a fairly well-known and proven phenomenon. Again though, I'm not sure how that has any bearing on detecting unless you are in a place you shouldn't be and simply looking to minimize your chances of somebody noticing and taking the trouble to approach you about it. For me personally, it doesn't matter if some random person approaches me and has some opinion on what I'm doing, simply because I already know it's okay to be doing what I'm doing. It has happened a few times and I just calmly explained I had been given permission and then went on their way. If they were to really dig their heels in and start screaming or something, well then I'd have to make the decision whether I wanted to continue detecting or just go somewhere else for that particular afternoon (never happened though and can't really see it happening either). Either way, I'm secure in what I'm doing. If I had a feeling I wasn't really supposed to be somewhere, then sure, I suppose acting like you're supposed to be there would reduce the chances of somebody saying something to me. But again, the only ones I'd really be worried about would be those in authority, and if I'm clearly being seen by them to be breaking the law I don't think it's going to make a spot of difference whether I'm standing tall with my fist raised skyward or crouching down looking guilty. All this detecting in iffy circumstances sounds mentally exhausting...so much to consider!

 

[itsaring!]

Had a friend of mine stopped in a bar and was just sitting there. Guy walked up and smashed him in the face with a beer mug. Case of mistaken identity. Fake i.d can get you in a bar. Bad ass can take you out!

 

[stewart73]

I would add too that the easiest way to appear like you belong in a place is to know that you actually do belong in a place. No acting needed.

 

[Steve77]

I would add too that the easiest way to appear like you belong in a place is to know that you actually do belong in a place. No acting needed.

If a cop seen me "sneaking" around my house trying to get back in after locking myself out, he may just assume I don't belong. The burden would be on me to convince him I belong there.

I think some folks would like a fenced in metal detecting park with signs posted every few steps saying "Metal detecting allowed. Digging allowed. Removing objects allowed. Permits available at gate." The rest of us will gladly MD the remaining locations.

 

[H Desert Digger]

I look at it this way, it's a public park, I have a right to be there (100% of my hunting is done in parks), if there is no sign posted stating NO METAL DETECTING, then I'm good to go.

But, I do get a bit self conscious when I whip out my intimadating 10 inch Lowes garden shovel....smiles....I try to pop out my targets when possible.

Another thing I am prone to do is wander aimlessly while swingin my MD. I don't use a grid pattern or make it look like I'm "on the hunt". I'm more like, out for a stroll...smiles.

HDD