Taxing Precious Metals (topic name changed)
- Thread starter vexhold
- Start date
bigstemz
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2010
- Messages
- 2,049
Here we go
Talks about a bill to get it repealed and the actual law that takes effect on Jan 1 st.
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=11843
To answer some questions it's deff 600 annual, so you'd have to keep your yearly finds and sales under 600! What a load of bs! What I'm not sure of is if with this new tax we are considered small businesses. If we are u can b sure I will b writing off gas usage, detectors and wear on my vehicle!
Talks about a bill to get it repealed and the actual law that takes effect on Jan 1 st.
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=11843
To answer some questions it's deff 600 annual, so you'd have to keep your yearly finds and sales under 600! What a load of bs! What I'm not sure of is if with this new tax we are considered small businesses. If we are u can b sure I will b writing off gas usage, detectors and wear on my vehicle!
scoundrel
six feet under(water)
Here's the new law as I know it. The 1099 is nothing new, but the scope of who it applies to has been greatly expanded. The new law requires a 1099 filed per transaction for small businesses. As I know the 1099, it has been generally used for contract employment, now it will apply to all purchases for small businesses. For example, if a small business, ie; Acme Air Conditioning sends it's employees to a trade show and spends $1,500 on hotel rooms, they must get the TIN of the hotel and file a 1099. If they print some business cards and stationary, and the cost $750, the printer will get a 1099 for that transaction. If they buy a used pickup truck for $1,000 from you, they will need your TIN(SS#), and you will be 1099'd. If they can't get the TIN from the payee, the small business will have to pay income tax on that amount. So I would bet that ARA is going to require TIN's(SS#'s) from everybody, including the members of this forum, who send in more than $600 in gold, begining in Jan of next year.
Gauntlet
Forum Supporter
Only if you bought when prices were high
Of course you could always sell to "those" Gold Buyers who only pay 1/3 of the value....then you could sell 3 times as much 
Thanks for the info! Annual was pretty much what I'd figured, otherwise anyone with half a brain could figure-out how to skirt that. The rest....well, best bite my tongue, as there's already been warnings and a title change on the thread. But you know..........
PhotoRob06
Forum Supporter
Are they called 1099 forms because that's the number of them that I'll have to fill out next year? 
(small business owner)
(small business owner)
DON'T FORGET ALL THE DARN PARKING FEES!!!! $1.50 an hour or whatever they charge! I Have to pay for parking EVERY TIME I go to the beach! Im going to start saving my ticket slips!!!
next i'll be gettin 1099'd for the clad i find
HAHA! What clad!?!? You only dig pop tops and can slaw remember!!
HAHA! What clad!?!? You only dig pop tops and can slaw remember!!
oh yea i forgot.....nope, no gold/silver or clad in my pouch uncle sam
Rudy
Admin
New Reporting Requirements - Form 1099
Folks,
One of the problems with taking information from the web verbatim is that sometimes, the information that is frosting you may be obsolete. I believe this is a fine example of what I am talking about.
When the impact for filing all these new 1099 forms that weren't previously required was finally understood, the government realized the unintended consequences. As a result, they quickly set about to rectify the situation. This was done in April of this year. It may be that whomever you are dealing with to sell your gold, may also not be aware of the changes. You could point them to this post and or give them the link below.
Whatever reporting requirements may be necessary in 2012, are not as a result of the new health care laws, but are the same as the current requirements.
President Signs Repeal of Expanded 1099 Requirements
APRIL 14, 2011
On Thursday, President Barack Obama signed into law the Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection and Repayment of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act of 2011 (HR 4; 1099 Act), which repeals both the expanded Form 1099 information reporting requirements mandated by last year’s health care legislation and also the 1099 reporting requirements imposed on taxpayers who receive rental income enacted as part of last year’s Small Business Jobs Act (PL 111-240). The Senate approved the bill on April 5, and the House voted in favor of it on March 3.
In March 2010, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PL 111-148) (part of the health care reform legislation) expanded the 1099 reporting requirements to include all payments from businesses aggregating $600 or more in a calendar year to a single payee, including corporations (other than a payee that is a tax-exempt corporation), and to include payments made for property, starting with payments in 2012. The 1099 Act repeals the expansion to payees that include corporations by removing IRC § 6041(i). It repeals the expansion to cover payments for property by removing the language “amounts in consideration for property,” and “gross proceeds” from section 6041(a). The act also removes IRC § 6041(j), which granted the Treasury secretary authority to issue regulations under section 6041, including “rules to prevent duplicative reporting of transactions.” These changes are effective for payments made after Dec. 31, 2011 (when the new rules were to take effect), and they revert those portions of section 6041 to how they were before the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
The Small Business Jobs Act enacted a requirement that individuals who receive rental income issue Forms 1099 to service providers for payments of $600 or more. It did this by specifying that “a person receiving rental income from real estate shall be considered to be engaged in a trade or business of renting property.” The 1099 Act strikes IRC § 6041(h) in its entirety, effective for payments made after Dec. 31, 2010 (the original effective date of section 6041(h)), placing individuals who receive rental income in the same position as if the expanded information reporting requirements had never been enacted.
As a result of the repeal, the 1099 reporting rules continue unchanged: Namely, under IRC § 6041(a), “All persons engaged in a trade or business and making payment in the course of such trade or business to another person” of $600 or more must report the amount and the name and address of the recipient to the IRS and to the recipient. The Code applies this requirement to payments of “rent, salaries, wages, premiums, annuities, compensations, remunerations, emoluments, or other fixed or determinable gains, profits, and income,” and the Treasury regulations add, “commissions, fees, and other forms of compensation for services rendered aggregating $600 or more” as well as interest (including original issue discount), royalties and pensions (Treas. Reg. § 1.6041-1(a)(1)(i)).
This required information must be reported each calendar year for payments made during that calendar year.
The AICPA had advocated strongly for repeal of both provisions and as one of the only organizations advocating against the rental property requirement was a driving force in its repeal. When the Senate passed the bill on April 5 and sent it to President Obama for his signature, AICPA President and CEO Barry Melancon described the repeal as “a victory for taxpayers.”
Increased Penalties Not Repealed
The 1099 Act did not repeal the increase in the information reporting penalties that were mandated by the Small Business Jobs Act. The first-tier penalty under IRC § 6721 for failure to timely file an information return was increased from $15 to $30, and the calendar-year maximum from $75,000 to $250,000. The second-tier penalty was increased from $30 to $60, and the calendar-year maximum from $150,000 to $500,000. The third-tier penalty was increased from $50 to $100, and the calendar-year maximum from $250,000 to $1,500,000. For small business filers, the calendar-year maximum increased from $25,000 to $75,000 for the first-tier penalty; from $50,000 to $200,000 for the second-tier penalty; and from $100,000 to $500,000 for the third-tier penalty. The minimum penalty for each failure due to intentional disregard increased from $100 to $250.
The increased penalties will be adjusted for inflation every five years.
The Small Business Jobs Act also similarly increased the penalties for failure to provide correct payee statements in addition to the information reporting penalties (IRC § 6722).
The increased penalty amounts were effective Jan. 1, 2011, and remain in effect after the repeal of the expanded 1099 reporting requirements.
http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/web/20114071.htm
Folks,
One of the problems with taking information from the web verbatim is that sometimes, the information that is frosting you may be obsolete. I believe this is a fine example of what I am talking about.
When the impact for filing all these new 1099 forms that weren't previously required was finally understood, the government realized the unintended consequences. As a result, they quickly set about to rectify the situation. This was done in April of this year. It may be that whomever you are dealing with to sell your gold, may also not be aware of the changes. You could point them to this post and or give them the link below.
Whatever reporting requirements may be necessary in 2012, are not as a result of the new health care laws, but are the same as the current requirements.
President Signs Repeal of Expanded 1099 Requirements
APRIL 14, 2011
On Thursday, President Barack Obama signed into law the Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection and Repayment of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act of 2011 (HR 4; 1099 Act), which repeals both the expanded Form 1099 information reporting requirements mandated by last year’s health care legislation and also the 1099 reporting requirements imposed on taxpayers who receive rental income enacted as part of last year’s Small Business Jobs Act (PL 111-240). The Senate approved the bill on April 5, and the House voted in favor of it on March 3.
In March 2010, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PL 111-148) (part of the health care reform legislation) expanded the 1099 reporting requirements to include all payments from businesses aggregating $600 or more in a calendar year to a single payee, including corporations (other than a payee that is a tax-exempt corporation), and to include payments made for property, starting with payments in 2012. The 1099 Act repeals the expansion to payees that include corporations by removing IRC § 6041(i). It repeals the expansion to cover payments for property by removing the language “amounts in consideration for property,” and “gross proceeds” from section 6041(a). The act also removes IRC § 6041(j), which granted the Treasury secretary authority to issue regulations under section 6041, including “rules to prevent duplicative reporting of transactions.” These changes are effective for payments made after Dec. 31, 2011 (when the new rules were to take effect), and they revert those portions of section 6041 to how they were before the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
The Small Business Jobs Act enacted a requirement that individuals who receive rental income issue Forms 1099 to service providers for payments of $600 or more. It did this by specifying that “a person receiving rental income from real estate shall be considered to be engaged in a trade or business of renting property.” The 1099 Act strikes IRC § 6041(h) in its entirety, effective for payments made after Dec. 31, 2010 (the original effective date of section 6041(h)), placing individuals who receive rental income in the same position as if the expanded information reporting requirements had never been enacted.
As a result of the repeal, the 1099 reporting rules continue unchanged: Namely, under IRC § 6041(a), “All persons engaged in a trade or business and making payment in the course of such trade or business to another person” of $600 or more must report the amount and the name and address of the recipient to the IRS and to the recipient. The Code applies this requirement to payments of “rent, salaries, wages, premiums, annuities, compensations, remunerations, emoluments, or other fixed or determinable gains, profits, and income,” and the Treasury regulations add, “commissions, fees, and other forms of compensation for services rendered aggregating $600 or more” as well as interest (including original issue discount), royalties and pensions (Treas. Reg. § 1.6041-1(a)(1)(i)).
This required information must be reported each calendar year for payments made during that calendar year.
The AICPA had advocated strongly for repeal of both provisions and as one of the only organizations advocating against the rental property requirement was a driving force in its repeal. When the Senate passed the bill on April 5 and sent it to President Obama for his signature, AICPA President and CEO Barry Melancon described the repeal as “a victory for taxpayers.”
Increased Penalties Not Repealed
The 1099 Act did not repeal the increase in the information reporting penalties that were mandated by the Small Business Jobs Act. The first-tier penalty under IRC § 6721 for failure to timely file an information return was increased from $15 to $30, and the calendar-year maximum from $75,000 to $250,000. The second-tier penalty was increased from $30 to $60, and the calendar-year maximum from $150,000 to $500,000. The third-tier penalty was increased from $50 to $100, and the calendar-year maximum from $250,000 to $1,500,000. For small business filers, the calendar-year maximum increased from $25,000 to $75,000 for the first-tier penalty; from $50,000 to $200,000 for the second-tier penalty; and from $100,000 to $500,000 for the third-tier penalty. The minimum penalty for each failure due to intentional disregard increased from $100 to $250.
The increased penalties will be adjusted for inflation every five years.
The Small Business Jobs Act also similarly increased the penalties for failure to provide correct payee statements in addition to the information reporting penalties (IRC § 6722).
The increased penalty amounts were effective Jan. 1, 2011, and remain in effect after the repeal of the expanded 1099 reporting requirements.
http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/web/20114071.htm
Thanks for the straight scoop Rudy!
Me&MyBoy
Elite Member
WHOA, WHOA, WHOA, RUDY! What are you doing here? You are presenting FACTS and they have no place in this conversation! On another note, Rudy, would it be okay if I sold tinfoil hats in the classifieds section. I'd be willing to split the profits with you...
I believe the rules state the tin foil must have been found with your detector!
Rudy
Admin
You are welcome Ron.
WHOA, WHOA, WHOA, RUDY! What are you doing here? You are presenting FACTS and they have no place in this conversation! On another note, Rudy, would it be okay if I sold tinfoil hats in the classifieds section. I'd be willing to split the profits with you...
Ahh, facts.
Yes, sometimes they inconveniently get in the way. 
If the tin foil hats are found while detecting, then I'll take a 40% cut.
BUZZ WILSON
Forum Supporter
So the $600 dollars that I got in pull tabs, my uncle wonts is cut.
So the $600 dollars that I got in pull tabs, my uncle wonts is cut.
only if ya sold them
scoundrel
six feet under(water)
Sorry if I misled anybody. I missed the news on the repeal. It must have been on MSNBC.
emfederin
Elite Member
I don't understand.
1099s are personal income tax forms used by (as mentioned) "small businesses and self-employed people". IOW, it's a statement of raw income from which you compute your tax portion - which is usually sent in with the 1099.
When you work for a company the company takes out taxes on each paycheck, and at the end of the fiscal year the employee fills out a 1040 to figure out whether he owes more taxes or gets some taxes back.
A self-employed person doesn't get paychecks per se, he gets paid a contracted amount for work performed, so he doesn't have any taxes taken out. This is why he has to use a 1099.
Now here's the thing: a 1099 is a BUSINESS statement. IOW, you file a 1099 for profits and losses associated with WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING.
If I make carbon-fiber toothpicks and made 50 grand off them, I wouldn't also claim $1000 I may have made from selling my car, because my car had nothing to do with my business.
So it sounds to me like the gummint is out to collect taxes from people who are running cash businesses buying and selling precious metals, not from citizens cashing in a bunch of gold rings for a couple of grand.
But what's weird is that if I, as carbonpix, LLC, buy carbon to make carbon fibre, it's an EXPENSE, not a profit, and it's not taxable, it's a deductable if anything. So I'm trying to figure out how a precious metals operation has to report metals it BUYS or how it would be taxable.
ADD:
Bah! I should have waited until I got to the 50th comment before wasting my time writing the above!
Rudy
Admin
There are many different types of 1099 forms in use for different purposes. To illustrate the example you gave above, your purchases of carbon fiber from a supplier would mean that, at the end of the year, you would send them a 1099 with the dollar amount of carbon fibers you purchased from them, and a copy would be sent (by you) to the IRS. Your purchases of carbon fiber are not taxable to you and are part of your cost of goods. The money however is gross income to your carbon fiber supplier. Hope that clears it up.
emfederin
Elite Member
I had vaguely inferred that from your #50 post (which I hadn't yet read when I posted mine), but your current explanation definitely clears up any remaining unsureness. Thank you!!
Sigh...I propose we change our national motto to "Ve haff vays uf making you pay!"
