Questions for Legend owners

[markinmichigan]

1. What VDI signals do you totally ignore? I ignore all under 11 (most in the mid to high 30s are garbage for me)

2. What in the world is in the ground with a 60 VDI? For me it's something big or very close to the surface.

3. What coil do you prefer? I like the 11" for fields and large areas , the LG 24 is my fav for cherry picking.

4. What discrimination pattern are you using? I run F because I got tired of digging rust and I don't look for relics.

5. What number of tones do you hunt with? I'm a 6 tone guy, the machine gets too noisy and I get distracted with 60.

Thanks and look forward to your advice and comments.

Mark in Michigan

 

[Dave_e]

I've only had my Legend out for 2 hunts. Total of about 10 hours. So I'm still figuring things out.

1. I'll dig a low VDI if it "sounds good", if that makes sense. Smooth, not warbly, concise tones. (Like my other detectors)
2. I haven't dug a 60 VDI yet.
3. I've only used the 12x9 for far. I'm finding it really iron falses on the coil edges, but I'm learning to identify when it happens.
4. I never use discrimination. (Like my other detectors). I like hearing everything in the ground under my coil.
5. I use 60 tones exclusively right now, but I'm interested in learning if the pitch tones offer any benefit.

 

[Diga]

Hi Mark.

My answer to those questions would be determined by what I'm looking for...be it gold jewelry, coins, or both. But, I'll give it a go:

1) I typically ignore 11, 29, and 46. In my ground, those numbers have always been small foil (11), square pulltabs (29) and pennies (46).

2) 60 is normally iron wrap around on large iron, or iron close to the coil (large signal strength iron). I rarely ever encounter it though. It might be also be some other falsing due to an excessive sensitivity level for the ground.

3) LG24 exclusively.

4) F all the time, because I have no desire to hear the iron.

5) 1 tone for nonferrous. Reason being, I set up my detector to only beep on targets that I want to dig, otherwise, I don't want to hear it. So, there isn't any point for me in hearing multiple frequency tones.

 

[Jose159]

Hi Mark.

My answer to those questions would be determined by what I'm looking for...be it gold jewelry, coins, or both. But, I'll give it a go:

1) I typically ignore 11, 29, and 46. In my ground, those numbers have always been small foil (11), square pulltabs (29) and pennies (46).

2) 60 is normally iron wrap around on large iron, or iron close to the coil (large signal strength iron). I rarely ever encounter it though. It might be also be some other falsing due to an excessive sensitivity level for the ground.

3) LG24 exclusively.

4) F all the time, because I have no desire to hear the iron.

5) 1 tone for nonferrous. Reason being, I set up my detector to only beep on targets that I want to dig, otherwise, I don't want to hear it. So, there isn't any point for me in hearing multiple frequency tones.

Interesting that you are using 1 tone and to me it makes a lot of sense...especially for cherry picking.

 

[markinmichigan]

Interesting that you are using 1 tone and to me it makes a lot of sense...especially for cherry picking.

Maybe I'm not understanding.....1 tone meaning every conductor will ring with the same tone? You would be digging every tone except for the notched out tones. Cherry picking to me is different tones for different conductors. Copper and most small silvers ring show a VDI in the 40s. Quarters, halfs and dollars in the 50s. I've got my tones set for every 10 points of VDI. Lets me know what I'm bending over for to dig.

Mark in Michigan

 

[Dave_e]

Mark, maybe the 1 tone alerts of a target, then the VDI is used to determine if it's diggable????

 

[Jose159]

I figured. the 1tone conversation was going to be polarizing. lol

 

[Diga]

Maybe I'm not understanding.....1 tone meaning every conductor will ring with the same tone? You would be digging every tone except for the notched out tones.

Yes, exactly.

For example, if I only want to dig high conductors (let's say 32 and higher), then I'll put my first tone break at 31, so there is no tone for anything under 32, or I just notch out everything up to 31. Either way, the detector will only beep on the targets that I instructed it to, and that I want to dig...so there is no need for me to hear multiple tones based on the conductivity of the targets.

Although I don't just use 1 tone for cherry picking high conductors. I use 1 tone all the time. For example, if I'm looking for gold jewelry, I often dig all nonferrous targets except for 11 , 29, and 46. So again, the detector will only beep on the targets that I instructed it to, and that I want to dig...so there is no need for me to hear multiple tones based on the conductivity of the targets.

 

[markinmichigan]

That is flipping brilliant I understand I agree and I like that idea.

Mark in Michigan

 

[AirmetTango]

1. What VDI signals do you totally ignore? Totally ignore is a strong word...lots of other factors in addition to the VDI number play a role in deciding whether or not I'm paying attention to a particular tone. Depth indication, repeatability, tone quality, site history, etc, etc, all get considered in the dig/no dig decision. But realistically, my dig history says I'm extremely unlikely to dig any target below about 18, and a solid 59-60 gets a seriously skeptical eye, too

2. What in the world is in the ground with a 60 VDI? Yup, giant stuff. Think license plates, manhole covers, '55 Cadillac bumper. Anything very large and/or very dense will create enough conductivity to peg 60 regardless of what metal it's made of.

3. What coil do you prefer? I only have the LG24 and LG30, and I only have about 50 hours total on my Legend, but I'm finding that I'm starting to lean toward the LG24 as the daily driver on the Legend. In my soil (which is mild according to the mineralization meter), I'm finding that the LG30 doesn't seem to like certain small, mid-conductor, non-ferrous targets. The LG24 hasn't had that problem for me, plus it separates better, weighs less, and doesn't appear to sacrifice very much depth in the process compared to the LG30.

4. What discrimination pattern are you using? I run A exclusively. I want to hear everything...it can be easier to identify falsing iron because you hear the iron grunts along with the high tone on those mixed, potentially masked, targets. You also have a better chance of catching those deeper non-ferrous targets that are getting so overwhelmed by the surrounding ground matrix signals that they get dragged toward the ferrous range. More subtle advantages include being able to hear when the mineralization or small iron concentration in the soil is increasing or decreasing, meaning that it may be time to adjust your sensitivity, swing speed and/or recovery speed setting, or even change coils. Sure, the machine will definitely generate a greater cacophony of signals, but for me it's worth it for the extra information it provides.

5. What number of tones do you hunt with? 6 tones pretty exclusively. So far I haven't modified the tone breaks or frequencies from stock, but that's coming soon once I feel more comfortable with where I want the breaks to be set. I heavily modified the tones on my Equinox to suit my tastes, and it definitely helps me to more easily differentiate between good and bad targets before I even look at the VDI....necessity? Nah. But definitely helpful in my opinion.

 

[Valley Hunter]

A broken band Gold ring with a stone on it ... Sounds bad
A broken band Gold ring with a stone on it ... VDI Jumps around
A broken band Gold ring with a stone on it .. Buddy will pass
A broken band Gold ring with a stone on it .. I will dig it up
I have A broken band Gold ring with a stone on it

 

[jmaclen]

1. I don’t ignore VDI or tones especially when they have stable VDIs, repeatable tones and are probably coin sized or smaller. I have dug small gold jewelry that had VDI 11, 12, 13 and 14. I have recovered smaller gold nuggets that had VDIs below 11.

2. Target ID 60……I have repeatedly dug 8” and deeper high conductor US coins that had intermittent or solid 60 VDIs when they were nearing the edge of detection.

3. Depends on what I am hunting for. I love the new LG30, LG24, LG15 coils and really like the LG28 for shallow submerged water hunting.

4. I mostly use the G or A discrimination patterns. I have not used the F pattern for any length of time. I sometimes use a Custom pattern that just accepts US coins and a little iron.

5. Number of tones again depends on what and where I am hunting. For normal land based coins and jewelry I mostly use 6 tones with tone breaks adjusted for USA coins. For relic hunting in open areas without a lot of iron trash, I like 60 tones. For relic hunting in thick iron trash I like 2 tones and Pitch tones. Same for most beach hunting. Gold prospecting is 1 tone most of the time.

You didn’t ask but, because of the level of iron mineralization where I hunt most of the time, my iron filter is on 0 or 1, iron stability 3 or 4, recovery speed 4 to 6 and sensitivity between 22 and max. I always use a Multi setting unless EMI forces me to use a selectable single frequency and I always do a ground grab ground balance, sometimes more than once during a hunt.

 

[stetam]

1. I don’t ignore VDI or tones especially when they have stable VDIs, repeatable tones and are probably coin sized or smaller. I have dug small gold jewelry that had VDI 11, 12, 13 and 14. I have recovered smaller gold nuggets that had VDIs below 11.

2. Target ID 60……I have repeatedly dug 8” and deeper high conductor US coins that had intermittent or solid 60 VDIs when they were nearing the edge of detection.

3. Depends on what I am hunting for. I love the new LG30, LG24, LG15 coils and really like the LG28 for shallow submerged water hunting.

4. I mostly use the G or A discrimination patterns. I have not used the F pattern for any length of time. I sometimes use a Custom pattern that just accepts US coins and a little iron.

5. Number of tones again depends on what and where I am hunting. For normal land based coins and jewelry I mostly use 6 tones with tone breaks adjusted for USA coins. For relic hunting in open areas without a lot of iron trash, I like 60 tones. For relic hunting in thick iron trash I like 2 tones and Pitch tones. Same for most beach hunting. Gold prospecting is 1 tone most of the time.

You didn’t ask but, because of the level of iron mineralization where I hunt most of the time, my iron filter is on 0 or 1, iron stability 3 or 4, recovery speed 4 to 6 and sensitivity between 22 and max. I always use a Multi setting unless EMI forces me to use a selectable single frequency and I always do a ground grab ground balance, sometimes more than once during a hunt.

Question. What coins have given 60 VDI's as I have never seen one.

Steve

 

[sube]

Question. What coins have given 60 VDI's as I have never seen one.

Steve

I have seen this with other detectors it's the mineralization iron in the ground or iron with the coin . As far as coin size does not matter they all will do it in certain situations .
Iron will false higher than any coin signal till it wraps around but the coin being a lower conductor than falsing iron will keep it from wrapping around there by giving you a higher number .
So size really does not matter what matters is how big the iron or how much mineralization these factor more than coin size .
I did not fully grasp this till I seen it on the screen of the CTX coin would be banging 49 to 50 which was to high for any coin but it would pull back to 47 which in ferrous coin is 1 point over a quarter .On the CTX the quarter is the highest reading coin in ferrous coin .The pulling back was the coin trying to ID as 45 but the ground or iron with it would push it to 47 then to 49 to 50 on a certain sweep .
Jim may see this more than most his soil is higher in mineralization than others .sube

 

[Diga]

The answers I gave were for my park sites that are loaded with clad pennies and aluminum trash. I use different settings for different sites. For example:

I mentioned that in my trashy parks, 11 is always small foil, 29 is always a square pulltab, and 46 is always a penny. Granted, the good stuff I want can "technically" be at those numbers, but in my experience, the chances of that are basically zero. After digging hundreds and hundreds of those numbers, the only thing I've dug up even remotely good to me, is a very small junker chain that hit at 11.

Those 3 numbers come up so much in my trashy parks, that I can't go more than 3 to 5 swings before getting one of those numbers. If I dig those numbers, then all my time would be spent digging stuff that I don't want. Many have said to me, "You'll miss good stuff if you ignore those numbers", but in fact, I dig more good stuff by not wasting all my time and energy digging those numbers, and instead digging the numbers I want.

On the other hand, my in water swimming sites have almost zero ferrous or nonferrous trash. Targets are few and far between, but almost every target is jewelry of some sort, or sunglasses. As such, I run in All Metal with my first tone break at one, and dig everything (including ferrous signals). I dig the ferrous signals because there is no ferrous trash in these sites, other than the occasional ferrous hair pin thingy. BUT, all nonferrous objects, on any detector, will identify as ferrous once it gets at the edge of detection. So, odds are the ferrous signals in these sites, will be very tiny, or very deep jewelry.

 

[markinswpa]

1. What VDI signals do you totally ignore? I ignore all under 11 (most in the mid to high 30s are garbage for me)

2. What in the world is in the ground with a 60 VDI? For me it's something big or very close to the surface.

3. What coil do you prefer? I like the 11" for fields and large areas , the LG 24 is my fav for cherry picking.

4. What discrimination pattern are you using? I run F because I got tired of digging rust and I don't look for relics.

5. What number of tones do you hunt with? I'm a 6 tone guy, the machine gets too noisy and I get distracted with 60.

Thanks and look forward to your advice and comments.

Mark in Michigan

I am new to the Legend, only 80 hours or so still much to learn. First and foremost I am a coinshooter hence, my hunting style. I target coins with a little left-right leeway for jewerly and small relics.
Unlike some who take alot of time to experiment I prefer to find what works and go with it. I will take time to interrogate a signal if it gets my attention.
The first few hunts I used the LG30 coil in Field M1 as it seemed to prove better in my test garden. But on other sights not so much. I switched to the LG24 Park M1 and was quite pleased with its performance. And have been gradually tweaking as I go.
I prefer 6 tones, A - all metal, I like to hear everything. I know they say 60 tone is more descriptive but for me its too busy for my ears and pitch tones I find annoying.
Recovery is usually 4 unless I get in to a very trashy area, in that case I up it to 7 or 8. IF usually 3 with stabilizer 2 bc 0 gs 0. Even running IF at 3 I'm still digging less iron junk that I did in the past. Still digging a fair amount of non-ferrous trash.
I have my tone breaks set for coins and have adjusted tone pitch as well. I am a tone first hunter so have adjusted the tone pitch to what I'm used to hearing.
I can't say I avoid certain VDIs but I will say I'm a bit gunshy on the 30s numbers. If I get a good repeatable though I will interrogate and sometimes dig. So far nothing from the 30s has produced any keepers.
As far as a VDI of 60, I have dug at least a half dozen deeper pennies that hit a 59-60. One deep wheat was a solid 60 and I remember a clad quarter surprised me once.
Anyway thats my 2 cents, will say I enjoy using the machine, it does have a few things I don't care for but overall I think is a keeper.

 

[AirmetTango]

Question. What coins have given 60 VDI's as I have never seen one.

Steve

I have seen this with other detectors it's the mineralization iron in the ground or iron with the coin . As far as coin size does not matter they all will do it in certain situations .
Iron will false higher than any coin signal till it wraps around but the coin being a lower conductor than falsing iron will keep it from wrapping around there by giving you a higher number .
So size really does not matter what matters is how big the iron or how much mineralization these factor more than coin size .

Yes, sube nailed it, great explanation!

Out of the hole, the recovered coin will, of course, ring up normally. It’s just the surrounding subsurface situation that causes the “60” signal. We see the same thing with a multi-denominational spill….say, a quarter and a nickel, which might bounce around, averaging let’s say mid-30s. You could say the nickel is dragging down the quarter, but you can just as easily say that the quarter is dragging up the nickel.

The same thing is happening with the falsing iron and a deep coin. Keep in mind…we tend to think of the VDI scale as linear, with a low end and a high end. In reality, it’s best to think of the scale as an unbroken, continuous circle, which is where the term “wrap around” comes from. Big, dense iron by itself can hit so hard that it sends the meter so far into the iron range that it keeps going around the circle to high ferrous…falsing. Or a very deep coin has such a weak signal that it gets overwhelmed by surrounding mineralization and/or small iron signals, and all the small coin can accomplish is to drag the needle back around the circle from the low iron part of the scale back into the very high ferrous. Probably a big overgeneralization, but it’s how I visualize what’s going on.

 

[Diga]

Keep in mind…we tend to think of the VDI scale as linear, with a low end and a high end. In reality, it’s best to think of the scale as an unbroken, continuous circle, which is where the term “wrap around” comes from.

That's exactly how I've always described the scale and iron wrap around

I'm glad the 60 thing was brought up, because I rarely ever encounter it, but I'm interested in learning more about it. My ground is very mild, so maybe as suggested, the type of mineralization is factor with coins at 60?

One exception to me rarely seeing a 60, is a beach I hunted last summer. It's no different than any other fresh water beach I hunt, but at the end of every few swings at this beach, I would get a false that read at 60. My ground balance was fine, and I discovered that reducing the sensitivity a little bit, stopped the falsing.

BTW- Count me in on someone else that finds pitch tones annoying on all detectors

 

[jmaclen]

Question. What coins have given 60 VDI's as I have never seen one.

Steve

2. Target ID 60……I have repeatedly dug 8” and deeper high conductor US coins that had intermittent or solid 60 VDIs when they were nearing the edge of detection.

Sube and Airmet Tango have already answered your question very well.

What I am reporting here is just my experience. If people don't agree with it, fine. It's just my experience. If you just want to argue with me about it send me a PM.

I will add that in my hunt area, I have recovered many (this has happened hundreds of times) copper Memorial pennies, wheat pennies, clad dimes, silver dimes and quarters and deep silver jewelry that were nearing the edge of detection with these latest SMF detectors like the Legend, Equinox series, Manticore and Deus 2 that responded with the highest target IDs that are on the detector similar to target ID 60 on the Legend. Those coins/jewelry do not have that ID on or near the surface. With these latest SMF detectors that up-averaging here of the target IDs on those targets can start at around 8" depth using an 11" coil and starts a little earlier with Deus 2 and its 9" coil. That is a big improvement compared to single frequency detectors and earlier BBS, FBS and Whites SMFs that would up-average or wrap them around into the iron target ID range much earlier.

Like others have said, that 60 target ID with no other IDs, 60 with slightly lower high conductor target IDs, 60 combined with various non-ferrous target IDs and 60 combined with iron target IDs does not necessarily mean the target will be an iron target.

So, when I am hunting for deep high conductors here with iron mineralization that's pretty high, I pay close attention to any potentially deep, coin sized target that is pinging with intermittent high tones and with target IDs that include 99, 60, 50 or 40 depending on the detector.

Specifically on the Legend, I consider target IDs 1, 11 and 60 to be its "I'm not sure" target IDs. All of these latest SMF detectors have some target IDs like that.

 

[sube]

That's exactly how I've always described the scale and iron wrap around

I'm glad the 60 thing was brought up, because I rarely ever encounter it, but I'm interested in learning more about it. My ground is very mild, so maybe as suggested, the type of mineralization is factor with coins at 60?

One exception to me rarely seeing a 60, is a beach I hunted last summer. It's no different than any other fresh water beach I hunt, but at the end of every few swings at this beach, I would get a false that read at 60. My ground balance was fine, and I discovered that reducing the sensitivity a little bit, stopped the falsing.

BTW- Count me in on someone else that finds pitch tones annoying on all detectors

I have ran the CTX since it came out always knew I was getting in tough ground the sensitivity would drop .
If you ran in auto sensitivity it would drop from 23 to 19 .
Yet I have mild ground to moderate but mostly tame it was not till I got a deus 2 and the mineral meter prove it .
When I would hit the same place where there were rotten bottle caps I mean these are almost gone the deus 2 mineral would go up .
Thus proving what I was seeing all along but had no way to verify it .
So just because you have mild ground does not me it is all mild if your mineral meter goes up be mindful your hunting hotter ground in mild ground . sube