dan
Elite Member
To paraphrase one of the greatest treasure hunters of the 20th century, Karl von Mueller, "A good operator with a poor detector will consistently outhunt a poor operator with a good detector."
Question for experienced detectorists about silver coin depths.
- Thread starter DiggInOhio
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To paraphrase one of the greatest treasure hunters of the 20th century, Karl von Mueller, "A good operator with a poor detector will consistently outhunt a poor operator with a good detector."
ronfin
Elite Member
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I agree with you that someone that doesn't understand the basics would miss surface coins if they hunted like that, but I'm talking about someone that has used MDs before, and gets a high-end machine. They might not fully understand the machine 100%, but it will beat a BH3300 every day of the week. There's really no comparison. You can be the best Bounty Hunter user of all time, and you'll never be able to hit the targets that are masked that a CTX can because the technology is better. Experience in the field on any machine is valuable, but having an edge when you're hunting fields that have been hit by experienced hunters many times over with machines that couldn't "see" through the heavy trash is an advantage. My own testing has amazed me. Using the BH3300, ETRAC, and then CTX.
dan
Elite Member
Ronfin, one major factor that makes von Mueller's quote still pertinent has nothing to do with the power or capabilities of the machine: Rather, it is knowing WHERE to hunt. Many novices with good detectors know nothing of research.
Often, von Mueller's recovery of a treasure was the easy part - the hard part was discerning that there WAS a treasure in the first place, and narrowing down the probable location.
You're right in saying that a good detector will outperform a cheap detector, when they are swung over the same ground. But a major part of the expert's edge is that he has done the homework to know where he has a good shot at finding something big.
Often, von Mueller's recovery of a treasure was the easy part - the hard part was discerning that there WAS a treasure in the first place, and narrowing down the probable location.
You're right in saying that a good detector will outperform a cheap detector, when they are swung over the same ground. But a major part of the expert's edge is that he has done the homework to know where he has a good shot at finding something big.
ronfin
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That would be a different category all together. The best researchers that take the time to learn the areas prior to hunting will have more success in theory, and being able to visualize the history in your head while in the field always helps too. The reason I said that quote was out-dated was because the technology now exists to help peer through ground that would've been masked in the past. It's relevant to say that someone that just started hunting with a high-end machine over the same areas they hunted with an older machine, will have a lot more success due to the technology. Each machine can only do so much, so at a point it becomes less about learning how to hunt better with it, than it does upgrading the technological aspects of the MD. I had three MDs this past year. The BH3300, the ETRAC, and now the CTX. I can honestly say I don't miss the BH or ETRAC, except I do miss the "warble" sound the ETRAC made, but other than that the amount of success I had re-hitting old ground has been enormous. For me though it's a great deal because I hunt mainly very trashy ground. So bad that I've literally watched guys quit hunting these spots because it was that frustrating. The BH scored 3 Mercs in 3 months. Same ground, same amount of time, the ETRAC scored 40+ Mercs. The CTX has taken that to an even higher level. First day out in a spot I called Nullville, I hit 6 silver dimes with a buddy who was using an AT Pro. He never even heard them. That was the analogy I was trying to elude to rather than a totally new person to the hobby using a CTX trying to out-hunt a seasoned Vet with an AT PRO. The AT PRO guy would be more successful. I meant "new" to the machine in this relation. HH
-Ron
dan
Elite Member
Gotcha, Ron! We agree after all!
That CTX sounds unbelievable. Maybe I should think about finally upgrading from my Fisher CZ-5....
That CTX sounds unbelievable. Maybe I should think about finally upgrading from my Fisher CZ-5....
turkeyhntr
Junior Member
I've recently been hunting a park that is mainly woods and most of the coins that I have found there are in the 1" to 4" range. I pulled a 27 merc, 41 quarter, and a 36 half in a one foot area, still calling it a spill. The dime was just barely covered with dirt, the quarter had maybe a half inch and the half was at 2".
Last weekend before the ground froze in a different area I pulled a nice 1901 barber dime that was at 6", closer to ten with all the leaves. Any noise, I clear the leaves and recheck and that was when I knew it was a dime, also got a .32 caliber fired round ball a foot away at same depth.
Of the 30 plus silvers I have pulled there this last one was double the depth of all that I have found there. Finding virgin ground, or junk free ground is a blessing, almost too easy.
Last weekend before the ground froze in a different area I pulled a nice 1901 barber dime that was at 6", closer to ten with all the leaves. Any noise, I clear the leaves and recheck and that was when I knew it was a dime, also got a .32 caliber fired round ball a foot away at same depth.
Of the 30 plus silvers I have pulled there this last one was double the depth of all that I have found there. Finding virgin ground, or junk free ground is a blessing, almost too easy.
upstatedigger
Forum Supporter
wait a minute....so you guys are saying these things can find coins?
In my area my silver coin finds average 3" to 6" I Know in the last 3 years with the F75 and Etrac, that my silver count from 7"to 10" as exploded. So I don't understand why folks think that depth isn't important. 
Deep silver is out there! You just gotta hear it.
Deep silver is out there! You just gotta hear it.
SilverChirp
Junior Member
Silver depth
Great question. I use a Minelab eTrac which took me about a year to understand. Low end detectors really do not stand a chance with the higher end types like eTrac. The discrimination technology is very apparent if you switch from a low end to a high end machine. As far as depth, I personally "cherry pick" sites IF I don't have time to dig every good signal. By "cherry picking" I mean I only dig the deeper signals with a good repeatable tone. Odds are, if the signal is in the 6-8" zone, it has a better chance to be a good target. Everyone has their own opinion and style, but that's how I've done it and its worked great for me. As far as depth, the only time I've found shallow seated or barber type coins is if the ground was disturbed or if the silver was siting on a root or rock... I'm sure there are many variables, but this has been my experience.
Great question. I use a Minelab eTrac which took me about a year to understand. Low end detectors really do not stand a chance with the higher end types like eTrac. The discrimination technology is very apparent if you switch from a low end to a high end machine. As far as depth, I personally "cherry pick" sites IF I don't have time to dig every good signal. By "cherry picking" I mean I only dig the deeper signals with a good repeatable tone. Odds are, if the signal is in the 6-8" zone, it has a better chance to be a good target. Everyone has their own opinion and style, but that's how I've done it and its worked great for me. As far as depth, the only time I've found shallow seated or barber type coins is if the ground was disturbed or if the silver was siting on a root or rock... I'm sure there are many variables, but this has been my experience.
I'd like to get some opinions from those of you who are more experienced detectorists and have found a lot of older silver coins. Do you notice that generally, they tend to be a bit deeper than the more recent coins? I've only found 9 silvers so far but they do seem to have been several inches deeper (6-8 inches) than the majority of the clad I find in the same area (1-5 inches). I know there are exceptions where, for example, you might find an old Seated or Barber coin near the surface and a clad dime at 7 inches nearby, and I know there are many factors such as soil density, obstacles like rocks and roots, etc, but I'm talking in general. I see these Minelab users finding older silvers quite often and I've wondered if it's mostly because of the extra depth they're getting. In short, what percentage would you estimate are found deeper than 8 inches or so, where some detectors might pass right over them? Thanks.
IDXMonster
Elite Member
The vast majority of the silver/old coppers I've found in public places have had something wrong with them(sitting weird,next to something,etc). We all know,for the most part,easy old coins on public property are not common. You'll get that "once in awhile" coin once in awhile,but not very often. I would say the silver/old copper has been on the deeper end of the scale....meaning...the older the coin,the deeper it's been.
As far as I can tell, and a guy in another forum put it best WHY the Explorers,eTracs and CTXs seem to find these old coins AT DEPTH...."most metal detectors SEPARATE, Minelabs SORT." I don't know what that means from a technical standpoint,other than I suspect there is some sort of "subtraction" scheme going on with the processing. If you're working terrible soil in terribly worked out areas,they seem to do better. The one thing that will always trump that is good research and getting on a virgin-ish site that hasn't been used up. If a guy doesn't have many options or doesn't want to do the research that it takes to get on such sites,then it's slim pickins. Most of the remaining good coins are difficult cases,that's why they're still there.
As far as I can tell, and a guy in another forum put it best WHY the Explorers,eTracs and CTXs seem to find these old coins AT DEPTH...."most metal detectors SEPARATE, Minelabs SORT." I don't know what that means from a technical standpoint,other than I suspect there is some sort of "subtraction" scheme going on with the processing. If you're working terrible soil in terribly worked out areas,they seem to do better. The one thing that will always trump that is good research and getting on a virgin-ish site that hasn't been used up. If a guy doesn't have many options or doesn't want to do the research that it takes to get on such sites,then it's slim pickins. Most of the remaining good coins are difficult cases,that's why they're still there.
Found a 1857 seated dime 3 inches deep.
3 1862-1863 indian head pennies within 100ft all 4-5 inches.
found a 1994 clad quarter 9 inches deep.
Look up the hoover boys my friend. DIG IT ALL.
Seriously best advice DIG IT ALL
I'v dug 60 signals that turned into 80's or even iron to silver targets. like a deep dime.
DIG IT ALL.
3 1862-1863 indian head pennies within 100ft all 4-5 inches.
found a 1994 clad quarter 9 inches deep.
Look up the hoover boys my friend. DIG IT ALL.
Seriously best advice DIG IT ALL
I'v dug 60 signals that turned into 80's or even iron to silver targets. like a deep dime.
DIG IT ALL.
NectarDetector
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Right, before the technology existed that helped peer through iron infested dirt this might've been true, but a noob can take a CTX to a spot a Bounty Hunter "pounded" and find everything they missed.
Exactly
Every silver I have ever dug was between 2 and 9 inches deep....
IDXMonster
Elite Member
I and the rest of this forum are wanting a definition of DIG IT ALL. EVERY signal?
Digger-Dave
Forum Supporter
Just to go along with this concept, you'll also have to carry out everything you pull from the ground.
After the last hunt, my small Garrett finds pouch would have loaded up quickly with horse and ox shoes.
NectarDetector
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You can dig it all, I only get so many hours a week to hunt, I am not going to spend 2 hours in a 10 ft x 10 ft area....lol
IDXMonster
Elite Member
I'm envisioning a steel post with a chain padlocked to your belt loop?
I suspect DIG IT ALL on colonial sites and such...
NectarDetector
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I'm envisioning a steel post with a chain padlocked to your belt loop?
I suspect DIG IT ALL on colonial sites and such...
If I am on VERY old property with KNOWN history, then I will more likely dig everything above iron.
NEVER will I dig it all in any site though, I am not diggin every nail and iron piece out of the ground, I wish I could watch someone dig it all... I"d have a cheeseburger and watch them sit in the same spot all day, but I'm sure at least the cheeseburger would be good...lol
BottleCapKing
Elite Member
The vast majority of the silver I have dug was in the 5-7" range. There have of course been outliers - a 10.5" Quarter, a 9" merc, a 1/2 inch seated.
Silver is generally found deeper is because back in the 80's the parks were depleted of all of their shallow seated and barber coins. The technology didn't exist back then to find the deeper coins in the trashier areas.
Even still, with the newer technology, those deeper coins are still going to be hard to find. You need a seriously sensitive receive coil and killer processing to find them. The deeper a coin is, the more it will sounds like iron (What your detector reports is the sum of the ground signal and the target signal. Once the strength of the ground signal approaches the strength of the target signal - it will sound like iron.
Silver is generally found deeper is because back in the 80's the parks were depleted of all of their shallow seated and barber coins. The technology didn't exist back then to find the deeper coins in the trashier areas.
Even still, with the newer technology, those deeper coins are still going to be hard to find. You need a seriously sensitive receive coil and killer processing to find them. The deeper a coin is, the more it will sounds like iron (What your detector reports is the sum of the ground signal and the target signal. Once the strength of the ground signal approaches the strength of the target signal - it will sound like iron.
Jamflicker
Elite Member
It all depends on the park I am hunting. for the most part yes, but if there is gopher activity then the coins can be at any depth.
