Prototype Equinox complete shaft, ASSEMBLED! (Pictures -- PROTOTYPE #2 PICS ADDED)

Mike --

Thanks for the kind words! I'm pretty excited about this whole project, and how it's all come together. While I may be a little biased (LOL), I really think this is going to be a great shaft system.

Thank you!

Steve
 
What separates the Herke cuff from the stock piece? I've never heard of them until now, so my interest is certainly piqued. :)
 
CJayC --

Thanks for your interest!

Mainly construction/durability. Jeff's cuffs are made of lightweight aluminum, very durable BUT can be bent/shaped a bit, to fit your arm better. Users of Minelab FBS machines (Explorers/E-Tracs) LOVE the Herke cuffs, because the plastic Minelab cuffs were NOTORIOUS for breaking/cracking, and so many of us eventually ended up with Herke cuffs as replacements, and became familiar with the quality. This is how the cuffs gained much of their following amongst detectorists (replacements for broken FBS cuffs). Since then, Jeff expanded his product line, producing them for additional types of machines, and I'm excited to have the chance to offer them for the Equinox!

But those are (based on my own opinion having owned them for my Explorers for many years) my opinions as to the advantages. Durability, one, and then comfort (and the ability to "mold" them a bit, to fit your arm better...

Thanks for asking!

(Here's a picture of one he sent me for testing, attached to one of my "prototype" shafts -- but without the adhesive-backed forearm pad attached to the cuff yet...)

Herke3.jpg


Steve
 
Hi all!

A couple of updates.

Lower rods for the Equinox and CTX 3030 are currently in stock.

Meanwhile, progress continues on the Equinox complete shafts; parts have now been ordered for the first production run; my target date at this point for the first shafts being ready for sale is mid-January.

In addition, I continue to make progress on the counter-balance design, for the optional counterweight system, and have arrived at prototype stage. I expect these to be available for anyone who wishes to add them as an optional accessory, at -- or shortly after -- shafts become available. More details will be forthcoming, or feel free to send me a message, if you are interested in more information on these.

FINALLY -- an exciting development; I have now hammered out the final details with my friend Jeff Herke, and can now announce that I will offer Herke arm cuffs with my shafts! These also will go up for sale at the same time as my shafts become available. At first, they will be a "limited time only" item, as the initial production run was for only a small number of cuffs -- which Jeff wishes to evaluate in terms of customer demand. Depending upon how well they sell, he will then decide whether to continue with additional production runs of the cuffs.

Anyone who has used a Herke arm cuff in the past, with one of their other machines, knows the quality that Jeff puts into them; I am excited to be able to offer them as an "optional accessory" to my shaft system. A padded neoprene cuff cover will also be an option, with the arm cuffs.

THANKS!

Steve

I purchased a Herke arm cuff for my NOX 800 a while back. Will the cuff work on your shaft?
 
I purchased a Herke arm cuff for my NOX 800 a while back. Will the cuff work on your shaft?

Pacer --

Yes, it will...I believe you got one from this same production run. You should be all set!

Thanks,

Steve
 
I'm excited to see your finished product. Can you talk a little bit about the counter weight and how you will integrate it into the shaft. Even though the 800 is pretty light weight it is really nose heavy and actually feels heavier than my Teknetics T2 after a day of swinging. I've even taped 8 oz of lead fish weights to the bottom of my Deus to deal with the nose heavy balance.

Do you have a finished weight of your shaft system compared to the stock shaft?
 
screwynewy --

Thanks for your interest!

To let you know about the weight of the shaft first, my shaft -- fully assembled and with 11" coil attached, runs about 2.75 pounds -- while the same, but with the stock shaft, is roughly 3.0 pounds.

As for the counterweights that you asked about, here's a bunch of info -- probably more than you want, LOL, but I'll put this out there for anyone interested.

The counterweights will be short lengths (up to about 6" long) of carbon-fiber tube, partially or completely filled with bagged lead pellets (the pellets will be contained within zip lock plastic bags of similar diameter to the carbon-fiber tube itself). The tubes will include a male-threaded fitting on one end, and a threaded/removeable "cap" on the other.

The male-threaded fitting on the one end of the tube is what will allow the counterweight tube to be installed on, or removed from, the shaft (via a corresponding female-threaded fitting installed in the butt-end of the shaft). Meanwhile, removal of the threaded cap on the other end of the tube will allow weight to be added, or removed, as necessary. More on this later.

Anyway, the idea of the counterweight system is to help those out who feel the Equinox is nose-heavy, to the point of it being a problem. For some, it's just a minor inconvenience; for others, though, that nose-heaviness is more of a problem -- and one they wish to address. Seems like you fall in the latter camp, since you've already taken action to balance your Deus.

From what I have gathered, it seems like there are two main camps of EQX users -- ones who want the unit as light as possible (and might consider the purchase of a carbon-fiber shaft so as to take a few more ounces off the overall weight), and then others who are less concerned with the ABSOLUTE weight of the unit, but instead would prefer the unit to be properly BALANCED, and thus more comfortable to swing. These are the folks who I designed the optional counterbalance system for.

One thing I'd like to say at this point, is that "how much" (if any) counterweight is "best," is somewhat of an individual thing. To provide some background...through testing, I have found that for an average-height hunter (who uses an average lower rod extension length, which yields an average "shaft angle" with respect to the ground), and who is using the 11" coil, the amount of weight added at the butt-end to PERFECTLY balance the machine is 25 ounces. And some folks have expressed interest in exactly that -- perfect balance; therefore, 25 oz. of counterweight would be "right" for these folks. Others, though, feel that 25 oz. is too much overall weight to add to the machine, but would still like SOME counterweight -- i.e. enough to offset SOME of the nose-heaviness, to achieve greater comfort when swinging.

Along these lines, one approach -- to remove SOME of the nose-heaviness -- might be to use 12 oz. of counterweight. Twelve ounces of counterweight, using the above assumptions, counter-balances 300g of weight at the coil end of the machine. And 300 grams is an interesting/relevant weight, for two reasons. One, 300g is roughly the weight of the 6" coil. SECOND, 300g is roughly the DIFFERENCE in weight between the 6" coil and the 12" x 15" coil. So, adding 12 oz. counterweight can do two things for an EQX user...one, it would perfectly balance the 6" coil. TWO -- and perhaps more importantly -- 12 oz. would be what is needed to offset the EXTRA weight of the 12" x 15" coil, as compared to the 6" coil. So, said another way, if you can swing the 6" coil on the EQX and it feels great to you, BUT, the 12" x 15" gets a bit uncomfortable/nose-heavy, then 12 oz. of counterweight added to the EQX, when using the 12" x 15" coil, will make the machine feel the same it does when swinging with the 6" coil (without any counterweight attached).

SO, to allow customers to accomplish this flexibility in terms of amount of counterweight added, I have decided two things --

1. I will offer customers the option of purchasing counterweights assembled in whatever customized weight increment they desire, AND...

2. I will include a couple of extra plastic zip lock bags, so that -- via the removable end cap, easy removal or addition of weight can be achieved, such that the EQX user can "customize" or adjust the weight to whatever they find most comfortable, in whatever circumstance.

So, to summarize -- the counterweights will be short lengths of carbon-fiber tube, which will "screw into" the butt-end of the shaft, will be filled with bagged lead pellets, and will permit easy addition or removal of weight (via a threaded cap) at the end of the weight.

I know this was long-winded, but I wanted to provide enough information for anyone interested. If there are any other questions that I didn't answer, please let me know!

Thanks again, for your interest!

Steve
 
I'm liking what I see here Steve!! Brainstorming...how come lead shot pellets for the counterweight? Why not make the counterbalance device a correctly sized tube for inserting dimes? Just saying, that way, a guy would always know where to get his hands on a few dollars of dimes in a Beer Run emergency! Right here in the counterbalance rig of my NOX!

Theres some historical precedence... Kirby Vacuum cleaners fabricated a coin slot in their models as a 'selling gimmick' to Housewives... the Woman would always know where she could get a few dollars to get the hell out of dodge stored right there in her Kirby that her Husband would never ever find...:laughing:...

Just saying, forget about the lead shot angle, make that tube dime dimension, or Quarters, whatever...You'd sell the stink out of them on that pitch alone! My Wife once bought a $800 Kirby just on account of that damned 'Get outta Dodge' coin slot! :laughing: And this was back in the late 80's when $800 was a lotta dough!:laughing:

All a guy needs to start over in Life is a few dollars in the cuff and a Metal detector...Guys will pay premium for Survival gear NOX Dime counterbalance tube!...I aint hauling no lead shot around, not if something more valuable, readily available, and multipurpose would work...The beer store dont accept lead pellets...well, they do...but when lead pellets are being traded OTC at a beer store, it generally results in one hell of a mess...
 
Mud-puppy --

You absolutely crack me up! You always have, and I appreciate your fine-tuned wit as an addition to this thread!

Your idea has excellent merit. :yes: In fact, the inside diameter of the counter-weight tubes will be nearly PERFECT for accommodating half-dollars!

I had already planned, as one of the purchase options, to sell these counterweight tubes WITHOUT the lead shot, if a customer so desires -- of course at a lower price than if I were including the lead shot. That way, my thinking was that someone could supply their OWN lead shot, saving themselves a few bucks in the process as opposed to having me send the lead WITH the counterweight tube.

WITH THAT SAID, I therefore did, fortuitously, make your idea a possibility, through that "selling empty counterweight tubes" option! :lol: And so, since you are the clad-digging MASTER, you could go ahead and fill that tube up with 63 of the Kennedy half dollars that you've dug, and -- based on some calculations I did just for you -- those 63 halves would make a stack about 5 1/4" long, thus fitting quite well inside a 5 1/2" counterweight tube! AND -- along with allowing you $31.50 in emergency beer run money -- those 63 halves would also be exactly the amount of weight required to achieve "complete/perfect counterbalance" of the 11" coil! :)

There you go, my friend! ;) You now have a "get out of Dodge" coin stash to rival that on your wife's Kirby! :laughing::laughing:

Steve
 
63 Half dollars? Digger Please! I can never find that kind of counterbalance of coins in the Wild! Not even coin Roll Hunting! Unless I'm buying a bag of splitshots at the bait store, or a sack of seement down at the lumberyard!! WTH? I thought the NOX was supposed to be ergonomic?

Whats a full can of beer weigh? Maybe just install a behind the elbow can holder and call it quits? Like one of those tilty things all the sailors have? You know, those unspillables or what ever they call them?? Maybe throw in a long straw?

I'll go with a heavy slug of depleted uranium before I slip in 63 half dollars! I got one sitting around here someplace...right here in my @ss!...Thanks to those freaking Warthogs coming in danger close...! Aint no party like a Warthog party...:laughing:

Why dontcha just come up with some sort of coccamamie bungy cord Swingy Thingy? Or Helium balloons tied onto the coil? I aint never carrying 63 half dollars of weight under my elbow on any rig! Beer stores dont know about 50c pieces anyway! Bags of shot? What the hell!

Fuss you and the Kirby vacuum cleaner you rode in on! :laughing:
 
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Wowzers this thread went off the rails fast, mud u ain’t right [emoji854]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Wowzers this thread went off the rails fast, mud u ain’t right [emoji854]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes I am not right! :laughing:

OK..lets go with a tube of Mercury then! If a guy dont like the feel, or gets tired, just pour a little out right there on the sand?...Who the hell cares? So I'm saying make this at least a storage chamber for dimes or pennies, and the damn guy is talking Half Dollars! Thats just not helpful in the real World...I'm doing my best to make this guy some money!

You gotta give props on the CF shafts though...the ML NOX stock ones are like plastic Toys R Us kind of dealies...We have Seen better sticks on brooms at the Dollar Store..or Pixie fussin Stix...so yeah, theres a need. I would like to have a beer can counterbalance though, some sort of holder...that would be huge...with a straw...or even just a hook to hang my Bowling ball bag?...63 half dollars! Just one more thing to worry about!

Damn straight! Bowling ball or beer can hook!! Fussin Aye! Nobody got no time to be hauling around 63 JFK halfs! Nobody but a Coin Roll Hunter on his way to the dump bank...
 
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Steve, thanks for taking the time to write up that detailed response. I think its a great idea to offer an adjustable counter balance weight to help offset the nose heavy 11" coil. My shoulders aren't what they used to be. Now whether its lead shot or coins I'll leave that up to you. As long as it is adjustable and doesn't rattle or move around I'm good with it.

- Ken
 
Mud-puppy --

You simply crack me up! I'll get to work trying to design that beer can counterweight holder for you! LOL!

screwynewy --

You are quite welcome! I really think these counterweights will prove useful, for those folks who don't like the nose-heaviness of the Equinox.

I think that 12 oz. of weight, for example, would really be a great help; allowing that 12" x 15" coil swing as effortlessly as the 6" coil, just by adding 12 oz. to the butt end (by utilizing an easy-to-attach, easy-to-remove counterweight less than 3" long), should be a useful accessory for some!

Thanks!

Steve
 
Pretty sure itsaring came up with a good counterbsalance for the eq about 6 months ago or so... and he's 1 smart hands on guy.. since you've thought out this idea so well here are some potential issues. Will the counter balance sink the entire shaft or basically want to push the coil up and rear of the shaft down in the water? Will it change the focal point when in knee deep water or changing coils? Does the middle of the shaft have a thick enough sidewall to take a wave head on with a large coil and the counter balance in place without snapping like a chopstick? Will the shaft lock hold up if the coil is sideswiped by a wave or a foot and if so for how long until the spring button lock starts to eat away at the cf wall? Will the shaft dm contract by a fraction of a mm in freezing cold weather or will any parts fail when moving from a warm car to freezing water?
Just a little food for thought. Good luck with the project steveq
 
Steve --

Thanks for the thoughts. I appreciate you tossing out some ideas for consideration.

First of all, let me try to address some of your questions about the shaft durability itself, and then I'll move on to "counterweight" discussion.

As for the shaft -- I have ZERO concerns about the durability of the shaft, or the cam lock being used. A HUGE portion of the focus of this design has been on the cam lock itself; I feel that one of the main weaknesses of the stock Equinox shaft exists where the shaft pieces connect. In my opinion, the twist-locks, and the spring button/button hole design, is an inferior shaft locking system, ESPECIALLY for "heavy duty" use. Even with "lighter" use, though, I think the "shaft wobble" issues which have been observed with some of the stock Equinox shafts, are reflective of the weaknesses inherent within this type of shaft-locking system.

My focus from the get-go was a shaft design that would employ an extremely secure/strong clamping cam lock, that would not ONLY eliminate any "shaft wobble" potential, but ALSO would eliminate entirely the need for the "spring button and button hole" design. To me, it was not worth proceeding at all, with this shaft design, if I could not employ a locking system that accomplished an extremely strong/secure connection between the lower and upper shafts.

Upon completing the design, my personal testing of the resulting prototype has confirmed that my objective (extremely secure connection) has been fully achieved, through the clamping cam lock I've chosen to employ with my shaft system.

BUT -- in addition to my own testing, I also sent off a prototype shaft for "field testing," to a very well-known detectorist, whose name nearly all would recognize, and who I consider to be the most technically knowledgeable, intelligent detectorist out there (and who is both a land AND water hunter). Testing/evaluation was conducted both in and out of the surf, and among other things, I specifically asked for a focus on, and feedback regarding, the strength of the cam lock connection. After his evaluation, he stated that the cam lock being employed is, to quote him directly, "200% over-engineered" for this application. In other words, the "design intent" has been met -- and THEN some. Hopefully this helps to address any concerns about the cam lock strength...and it SHOULD also address any concerns about the "button holes wearing down over time," since -- unless a customer SPECIFICALLY requests them -- button holes won't even be INCLUDED on the shaft (the cam lock is SO secure, that they are not even needed).

As for your comment about the shaft "snapping like a chopstick," again I have zero concerns. Carbon-fiber shafts have been used for YEARS on a large number of high-quality detectors, as I'm sure you know (Explorers, E-Tracs, CTX 3030s, just to name a few), and I think we have enough history there to confirm that shaft breakage is a very rare occurrence. Carbon fiber is obviously noted for its strength, and as such is used in applications such as military, aerospace, etc. So I'm not sure why you wondered if shaft breakage would be a concern. In my specific case, I have been selling shafts now for a year, and have not had a single report of shaft breakage -- exactly in line with what I would have expected. Can I say that there is no circumstance under which a shaft could ever break? Of course not. But I can say that it would be an EXTREMELY unusual situation, AND -- if it somehow were to happen, I stand behind my products 100%. You would have a new shaft in your hands within a week, should such a breakage ever occur. This, to me, is simply not a concern.

Now, I'd like to move on to your questions with respect to the counterweights. I will be the first to admit that I am not a water hunter; clearly, a counter-balance system is easiest to design for LAND hunters -- and that's been my focus. Even "on land," there are plenty of variables to consider (which coil is being used, how long is your lower rod extended, etc.), but at least the physics can be calculated more simply, and then tested to confirm, out of the water. Once you get into the water, where characteristics (buoyancy) of the coil, water currents, etc., come into play, it's much more difficult to make a balancing system that works for all. What I can say, though, is this is PART of why I chose to include a screw-on cap, on the weights, so that the amount of weight being used can be adjusted, by the user, as conditions warrant (including "in the water"). And also recall, the counter-balance system is OPTIONAL, such that if a user doesn't think it will be useful for their style of hunting, they have the option not to purchase it; the shaft is of course designed to be fully functional WITHOUT the optional balancing system.

Finally, you asked about whether any temperature-induced contractions in the diameter of the carbon-fiber tubes that would theoretically occur, moving from a warm car to freezing water, would "cause any parts to fail." My answer is no, I do not expect so. After much research into epoxies, lots of experimentation, and adjustment over time, the epoxy I have arrived at, which I use now on all rods/shafts, is a VERY strong but flexible (not brittle) epoxy. As such, this epoxy is designed SPECIFICALLY to handle bonding of two dissimilar materials, whose coefficients of thermal expansion differ. So between this trait of the epoxy being used, and the fact that the cam lock itself is adjustable (with respect to the tension of the clamping lever, via an adjustment screw), I am confident that even rapid temperature changes will not be a cause for concern (and again, I stand behind my products 100% should ANY type of failure ever occur, with one of my rods/shafts).

Hopefully, I've addressed most of your questions. If there is anything else you'd like me to clarify, or discuss, please let me know. I appreciate your assistance with thinking through the design.

Thanks!

Steve
 
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The idea is to reduce weight. Not increase it. For land a type of harness or bungee. For beach if you use a counter balance it would have e to have the same buoyancy or slightly under what salt water is (temperature dependent). Sticking lead shot or several dozen quarters into the end of the shaft and strapping it to your arm isnt such a good idea. (A heavy plastic that doesnt sink in salt water is a good idea and probably cheaper).
Steve
 
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Steve,

I appreciate your thoughts. However, I have several customers very interested in counter-balancing the shaft, who do not share your opinion that "reducing weight" is the "end all/be all."

My shaft IS lighter than the stock shaft, and so for all of the folks whose specific focus is on reducing weight, my shaft will achieve that. Obviously, these customers would NOT be the ones interested in counterweights.

On the other hand, there are quite a few folks who do not like the nose-heaviness of the Equinox, and wish to BALANCE the machine. Several have REQUESTED that I address the balance issues, through counterweighting. It is these folks' requests that I'm trying to fulfill by offering the optional counterweights. Whether you agree or not, there are several folks more than willing to add a bit of overall weight to the EQX, in the RIGHT places, so as to achieve a more balanced, ergonomically comfortable shaft.

You mentioned a bungee or harness, and this is a good option for some. However, others -- myself included -- do not like being restrained/tethered to the machine by a harness. Bottom line, I'm trying to please as many of my customers, and meet as many customer requests, as I possibly can. Different strokes for different folks, everyone is different.

Again, you may feel that counterweights are not a good idea, and I can respect that as being your opinion. I'm offering the option, for other hunters who have a different take on things.

As for the plastic idea, plastic does not provide enough weight to counterbalance the shaft for a land hunter -- particularly if the interest is to keep any counterweight short in length, i.e. not protruding very far beyond the butt end of the shaft. As for how it might work for a water hunter, I'm not sure -- I'm not a water hunter and don't have access to salt water, for testing...

It seems as though you are not a fan of the shaft design, nor the counterweight idea. Understood, and I respect your point of view. I learned a long time ago that you can't please everyone, and I'm sorry if you are one of those who may not be pleased. If you have any specific desires, I'd do my best to custom-build a shaft for you in whatever way you'd like. However, I expect that you already have your machine set up in the way that works best for you, and so would have little need for anything I'm offering.

Thanks!

Steve

P.S. The whole "inserting 63 half dollars" into the counterweight was a joke; Mud-puppy was jesting, and thus I joined him in response, for what that's worth...

The idea is to reduce weight. Not increase it. For land a type of harness or bungee. For beach if you use a counter balance it would have e to have the same buoyancy or slightly under what salt water is (temperature dependent). Sticking lead shot or several dozen quarters into the end of the shaft and strapping it to your arm isnt such a good idea. (A heavy plastic that doesnt sink in salt water is a good idea and probably cheaper).
Steve
 
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