My take on the AT Pro/NEL Storm

remmy

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Middletown PA
First off let me say that I live in an area of PA that has highly mineralized soil. Others may have different soil and results. Any data given here is pro zero max sens. no discrimination.
Depth, yes it is deeper but not as much as some think or say. In air testing it does well. When I air test I call it quits when it stops correctly identifying the target, meaning solid high tone not half iron half high. I should also add that my rig was ground balanced at 82 when I did the air test. I tried it again lowering the ground balance but it wanted to chatter, weird?
silver dime=8 in.
clad dime= 9 in.
silver or clad quarter=10 in.
V-nickel=11 in.
nickel and largie=12 in
There is a reason you see people making depth videos using nickels, it likes nickels! Also as a depth test I buried a clad dime 6.5 inches in a clean spot in my yard. The stock coil calls it iron 90% of the time, the storm hits it but you have to be paying attention. I should add that you can lift the storm another inch before it loses it or drop 2 to 3 bars sensitivity before losing it. Bottom line, yes it is deeper but will vary with soil condition and target size.

VDI...numbers are different, I have dug copper pennies that sounded like zink. I should also add that coins sound kinda clunky, almost bottle cappish. If you "dig it all" no problem but if you are a coinshooter digging low 50s and 80 up you may have a learning curve.

There are those who want this coil for bigger coverage, keep this in mind. The stock coil reads as well or even overstates things on the back side, behind the shaft. The storm seems to like to read in front of the shaft. Having said this, the stock coil will give you a pretty good idea what the target is 11 inches front to back, the storm is 7 inches from the shaft to tip so it may not be bigger coverage overall.

Pinpointing...If you are a "wiggle back" kind of pinpointer you must know this. The coils read like a half circle underground. The stock garret coils are offset to the front, the storm is not. The storm also reads deeper so on really deep targets when you lose the signal, your target may be a few inches toward you. This is because of the arc, if you imagine a half circle under the coil you will see that a target 8 inches deep would be towards the bottom of the circle. This would be a few inches behind the tip of the coil. On the stock coils the target is pretty close to the tip of your coil when you lose the signal. This may not always be the case with the storm. I should also add that the storm reads deepest right across the center, where the shaft is mounted. On really deep, iffy targets keep this in mind. I have found that on really deep targets it is best to use the button and dig where the center of the coil is at the loudest sound.

Chatter....This coil is just plain more sensitive to things like power wires. Not all power wires but some. If there is no interference in the area, it is really stable. Full sensitivity can be used with no problem. As an example, there is a place I hunt that has power lines at the street. The small 5x8 coil is very forgiving, the stock coil chatters for about 30 yds. the storm I have to drop sensitivity at least 1 bar at 80 yds and lower the closer I get to the lines.

Bottom line, was it worth it? Yes, I am finding things I missed and I find myself digging deeper targets on a regular basis. I still have not mastered the differences but will in time. I took the time to post this info so that anyone who may be considering a storm will have this info ahead of time rather than trial and error. Again I must say that I am not disagreeing with anyone, or stepping on anybodies toes. This is what "I" found using the storm.

Hope it helps someone!
 
First off let me say that I live in an area of PA that has highly mineralized soil. Others may have different soil and results. Any data given here is pro zero max sens. no discrimination.
Depth, yes it is deeper but not as much as some think or say. In air testing it does well. When I air test I call it quits when it stops correctly identifying the target, meaning solid high tone not half iron half high. I should also add that my rig was ground balanced at 82 when I did the air test. I tried it again lowering the ground balance but it wanted to chatter, weird?
silver dime=8 in.
clad dime= 9 in.
silver or clad quarter=10 in.
V-nickel=11 in.
nickel and largie=12 in
There is a reason you see people making depth videos using nickels, it likes nickels! Also as a depth test I buried a clad dime 6.5 inches in a clean spot in my yard. The stock coil calls it iron 90% of the time, the storm hits it but you have to be paying attention. I should add that you can lift the storm another inch before it loses it or drop 2 to 3 bars sensitivity before losing it. Bottom line, yes it is deeper but will vary with soil condition and target size.

VDI...numbers are different, I have dug copper pennies that sounded like zink. I should also add that coins sound kinda clunky, almost bottle cappish. If you "dig it all" no problem but if you are a coinshooter digging low 50s and 80 up you may have a learning curve.

There are those who want this coil for bigger coverage, keep this in mind. The stock coil reads as well or even overstates things on the back side, behind the shaft. The storm seems to like to read in front of the shaft. Having said this, the stock coil will give you a pretty good idea what the target is 11 inches front to back, the storm is 7 inches from the shaft to tip so it may not be bigger coverage overall.

Pinpointing...If you are a "wiggle back" kind of pinpointer you must know this. The coils read like a half circle underground. The stock garret coils are offset to the front, the storm is not. The storm also reads deeper so on really deep targets when you lose the signal, your target may be a few inches toward you. This is because of the arc, if you imagine a half circle under the coil you will see that a target 8 inches deep would be towards the bottom of the circle. This would be a few inches behind the tip of the coil. On the stock coils the target is pretty close to the tip of your coil when you lose the signal. This may not always be the case with the storm. I should also add that the storm reads deepest right across the center, where the shaft is mounted. On really deep, iffy targets keep this in mind. I have found that on really deep targets it is best to use the button and dig where the center of the coil is at the loudest sound.

Chatter....This coil is just plain more sensitive to things like power wires. Not all power wires but some. If there is no interference in the area, it is really stable. Full sensitivity can be used with no problem. As an example, there is a place I hunt that has power lines at the street. The small 5x8 coil is very forgiving, the stock coil chatters for about 30 yds. the storm I have to drop sensitivity at least 1 bar at 80 yds and lower the closer I get to the lines.

Bottom line, was it worth it? Yes, I am finding things I missed and I find myself digging deeper targets on a regular basis. I still have not mastered the differences but will in time. I took the time to post this info so that anyone who may be considering a storm will have this info ahead of time rather than trial and error. Again I must say that I am not disagreeing with anyone, or stepping on anybodies toes. This is what "I" found using the storm.

Hope it helps someone!

I live in Indiana county pennsylvania.
Are you saying you cannot bury a dime 7 inches and pick it up?i can do that at 8 inches and pick it up with the 5x8..don't know where you are but here in Indiana pa,the at pro is a beast
 
Real nice report, lots of detail! Thanks Remmy...I'm looking at that Storm for my Pro for larger coverage in the water...
Mud
 
Great writeup Remmy. It makes perfect sense. Here in Georgia this red clay does not favor the NEL STORM. The red clay makes a bullet 5 inches deep red like foil or iron.

Facebook: Zach Byrd Adventure Hour
 
:?:

Where did that come from?

<°)))>{

Electromagnetics.

Ever wonder why detectors used for gold hunting use much higher operating frequencies than hobby detectors (30-50khz opposed to the average 14-18khz)? The higher frequencies are better for tiny gold nuggets. Minelab has a nice whitepaper explaining this.

As for the low conductive materials, higher frequencies can generate deeper eddy currents in low conductive materials than higher conductive materials.

My detector searches on 2.5, 7.5, and 22.5Khz. It displays which frequency is getting the strongest return signal. Lower conducting materials like nickles hit in the following order of strength - 22.5, 7.5, 2.5. Where as, the highly conductive materials like silver and high copper alloys, the strengths hit in the following order - 2.5, 7.5, 22.5. Lower frequencies can can generate deeper eddy currents in coin silver than 22.5Khz.

Deeper eddy currents result in greater induced current densities, which in return generate stronger magnetic fields. The stronger the induced magnetic field, the more likely the receive coil will see it. After all, the deeper the target, the harder it will be to see since that field drops off proportional to 1/d^3.

This at least is my understanding - though I will make the disclaimer that I am still trying to relearn the Emag I last studied 20+ years ago and never used (This of course requires me to relearn my calculus and diffy Q's as well). If there is anyone who is well versed in Emag Theory, please correct me. I am trying to understand the science behind what makes my detector tick on the most fundamental level.
 
I live in Indiana county pennsylvania.
Are you saying you cannot bury a dime 7 inches and pick it up?i can do that at 8 inches and pick it up with the 5x8..don't know where you are but here in Indiana pa,the at pro is a beast

Your soil is not his soil. Ground mineralization can change dramatically in just a few yards. You lose depth with higher ground mineralization. You may have better ground.
 
Your soil is not his soil. Ground mineralization can change dramatically in just a few yards. You lose depth with higher ground mineralization. You may have better ground.

Thank you for making that point! I even put on my 5x8 and my stock coil and neither had a clue. I also dug up the dime to make sure it was not on edge and moved it to 7", the storm still hits it if you really pay attention. I was thinking it was because of the mineralized soil and thought I was alone in my thoughts. I recently watched a well known someone on youtube who seemed to have the same problem. Overall I am finding stuff I missed but it is only by an inch or so on coins. I have also dug some large pieces of junk at 16+ but I'm not collecting junk......yet. :lol:
 
Overall I am finding stuff I missed but it is only by an inch or so on coins. I have also dug some large pieces of junk at 16+ but I'm not collecting junk......yet. :lol:

That is the wonderful thing about iron... It effectively amplifies the return signal. That is why you can easily find really deep iron, but, not really deep coins.
 
Electromagnetics.

Ever wonder why detectors used for gold hunting use much higher operating frequencies than hobby detectors (30-50khz opposed to the average 14-18khz)? The higher frequencies are better for tiny gold nuggets. Minelab has a nice whitepaper explaining this.

As for the low conductive materials, higher frequencies can generate deeper eddy currents in low conductive materials than higher conductive materials.

My detector searches on 2.5, 7.5, and 22.5Khz. It displays which frequency is getting the strongest return signal. Lower conducting materials like nickles hit in the following order of strength - 22.5, 7.5, 2.5. Where as, the highly conductive materials like silver and high copper alloys, the strengths hit in the following order - 2.5, 7.5, 22.5. Lower frequencies can can generate deeper eddy currents in coin silver than 22.5Khz.

Deeper eddy currents result in greater induced current densities, which in return generate stronger magnetic fields. The stronger the induced magnetic field, the more likely the receive coil will see it. After all, the deeper the target, the harder it will be to see since that field drops off proportional to 1/d^3.

This at least is my understanding - though I will make the disclaimer that I am still trying to relearn the Emag I last studied 20+ years ago and never used (This of course requires me to relearn my calculus and diffy Q's as well). If there is anyone who is well versed in Emag Theory, please correct me. I am trying to understand the science behind what makes my detector tick on the most fundamental level.

I understand, and understood, all that...

My question was, what does frequency have to do with this thread?

It's about a coil, and a single frequency machine...

<°)))>{
 
I understand, and understood, all that...

My question was, what does frequency have to do with this thread?

It's about a coil, and a single frequency machine...

<°)))>{

From the original post:

"V-nickel=11 in.
nickel and largie=12 in
There is a reason you see people making depth videos using nickels, it likes nickels!"

Nickels being a low conductive material...
 
From the original post:

"V-nickel=11 in.
nickel and largie=12 in
There is a reason you see people making depth videos using nickels, it likes nickels!"

Nickels being a low conductive material...

I read that as the NEL coil likes nickels, in relation to other ATP coils... Not necessarily a frequency thing... But generally speaking, the ATP does do well on low conductors due to the higher frequency.. I've found the NEL Storm likes nickels too and tiny foil...

<°)))>{
 
I read that as the NEL coil likes nickels, in relation to other ATP coils... Not necessarily a frequency thing... But generally speaking, the ATP does do well on low conductors due to the higher frequency.. I've found the NEL Storm likes nickels too and tiny foil...

<°)))>{

+1 on the tiny foil! I have a few pieces of that. :lol:
 
Oh here we go! Here we go! Everytime somebody tries to talk about Rocky Marciano, somebody pulls Joe Louis out they @ss!:laughing::laughing:
Mud
 
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