I'm back, but still pissed.

[KOB]

This member was last here March 4th and has not posted on the thread since Jan 30th...

Why keep asking questions or posting on it?

If his last post was Jan 30th he has had plenty of opportunity to respond with an update which he has not...

Lets give it a rest... I even tried contacting him which went unanswered...

Because it's fun to theorize on something that never happened ?

 

[Bioheat1969]

Because it's fun to theorize on something that never happened ?

Or maybe it did, and he's pissed at the responses he got.

 

[SeabeeRon]

Or maybe it did, and he's pissed at the responses he got.

The OP has had plenty of time to set the record straight and clear things up for his fellow Forum Members.

I think most help were just trying to be helpful and supportive, at least in the beginning.

 

[Cfmct]

Or maybe it did, and he's pissed at the responses he got.

We have seen our share of "story time" posts on this forum, not saying this is story time but could have been who knows and I really don't care... the best story time story was a alleged beach hunter who was posting amazing finds but what did him in was he started posting Celtic staters saying he found them here and huge pieces of gold... still some of his posts around but I won't being them back up, they are worthless he deleted the pictures of the treasure which he never found with a metal detector.

 

[backwater]

To much detail to be fake. But maybe he was detecting in a marked historic site and got off lucky.

 

[Bioheat1969]

The OP has had plenty of time to set the record straight and clear things up for his fellow Forum Members.

I think most help were just trying to be helpful and supportive, at least in the beginning.

I don't know if this was real or not, just saying we are sometimes very quick to call BS, and occasionally, very unfriendly about it as well. It can be very off-putting to some people.
If this is real, think about it, the guy is already upset about what happened then we jump on him and call BS, what must have our community have felt like to him. Should we be surprised if he doesn't come back?

 

[Chipk]

I live near St Mary’s Ga. I asked the head of the Park Rangers and the police about hunting and was told of a small area to avoid. There is a nice waterfront park and across the street is a large dirt parking lot. Across the street 100 yards away is a wharf and ticket booth selling tickets for a boat ride to Cumberland Island, a Federal Park.
I hunt the parking lot and collect so much trash and litter I go to my car and empty my pouch and return for more. The trash included broken glass, cans, cups, straws, and a dirty diaper. I am nearly finished hunting having found a couple of keys and some clad coins.

A young Ranger approaches and tells me I can not hunt there. I explained what I was told and he calls for a supervisor and soon 2 more Rangers are there. They again tell me no and I ask why. It seems that the parking lot is for the boat riders to Cumberland Island and IS CONSIDERED TO BE PART OF THE ISLAND. Which is 7 miles away. And so I’m basically hunting on a Federal park. They demand everything I found so I empty the pouch. They express appreciation for all the trash I collected and cleaned but I tell them there is more! I lead them to my car and give them the rest, including the diaper! They again thank me for the cleanup but now discuss what to do with me. Their options were a written warning, a citation with a $250 fine, confiscate my gear or arrest me!

they decide to give me a warning and as they write it, one of them is the curator of their museum asks me if I’d volunteer to search some nearby woods for railroad track!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... A young Ranger approaches and tells me I can not hunt there. I explained what I was told ....

And this ^ ^ is why 90% of my hunting is done at night these days. So peaceful. So serene.

And as for why those individual nosy-parkers were *so appraised* of some supposed disallowance of md'ing : Care to guess why they were probably so quick to notice & register you ? Ie.: Why they "cared" so much ? I have a sneaking suspicion. Care to take a guess ?

 

[Wolf-Dog]

So peaceful. So serene.

When can we buy our Tom_in_CA merch with that printed on a t-shirt?

 

[Sojourner57]

Should be able to fight it if there was no signs saying no detecting.

I parked in the grass at a conservation area. No signs anywhere saying stay off grass. $150.00 later. I pointed out to the agent that there weren't any signs. He said stay off the grass is in the brochure too. I said I haven't read that. He said that was on me.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I parked in the grass at a conservation area. No signs anywhere saying stay off grass. $150.00 later. I pointed out to the agent that there weren't any signs. He said stay off the grass is in the brochure too. I said I haven't read that. He said that was on me.

Which doesn't mean that we md'rs should "grovel" going forward, when coming to other locations (asking "Can I ?" questions). Instead it merely means : Read the brochure. And that information, in-this-wonderful digital day & age we live in, is invariably ALWAYS on-line. There's not a single city or park's dept. that doesn't have their muni -code and charter and such on-line these days.

And if someone is STILL really skittish (because some backwards podunk county has nothing digital or whatever), then you can always ask where to see a complete list of park rules. They will send you to city hall where it exists in binder form somewhere. Or hand you a brochure, or whatever. If they ask "what is it that you wanted to know ?", you repeat your question and say : "To see a complete listing of any rules or laws that apply to XYZ usage".

And : If nothing there says "no md'ing" (ie.: silent on the issue), then presto : Not disallowed.

 

[Coin-Saver]

Tom is right. Simple as that. If you go online and read their rules as they will most certainly be there and nothing says it's not allowed then by default it's allowed. Print the regulations you find but don't tell them you know what it says. Play dumb for a bit until they commit to saying "The regulations say you can't hunt here" Then pull out the regulations and respond. "That's funny, my copy says nothing of the sort). Then you ask for correct spellings of their names for the lawsuit. At that point they will just tell you to leave. BUT it will be without a fine, confiscation and or jail. Which doesn't really matter because it's bound to be posted "NO METAL DETECTING" after this encounter anyway but at least you'll get to have a little fun in the process.

Besides if they don't have anything in writing prohibiting it or have it posted then again by default it is allowed by not being NOT allowed. What I'd give to be a fly on the wall as Tom had a conversation with some of these Barney Fife's.

 

[Jelly_936]

I have been a full time member of law enforcement as a city officer as well as a county deputy for 7 years and am still a part time city officer after deciding to get out of the profession full time. I can tell you from a legal standpoint, in Iowa anyway, if it is not citated in a city ordinance book or in your states criminal law books then it is not disallowed and can not be enforced.

Now having said that if a big enough issue arises or that causes an officer or city official enough embarrassment in being wrong on the enforcement of it then you can bet it will likely be brought up in the next city council meeting or board of supervisor meeting to make it an ordinance or law in the future.

From my time being on the side of law enforcement I can tell you that most officers, deputies, rangers, etc. (in my area at least) do not really care all that much about metal detectorists as long as you aren't making a big deal or show of it. I have gotten permission from Corps of Engineers officers to detect on areas that are "protected" or that detecting is disallowed after explaining the simplicity of what we do detecting and how we do it. Most officers, deputies, rangers, etc. don't have any idea what metal detecting even is really and are more interested in or distracted by seeing finds than enforcing not letting you detect. Just be open and friendly and polite and it isn't that big of a deal.

I do tend to agree with Tom that if you have done your homework and research on laws and/or regulations on an area and nothing is on the books prohibiting it then why risk asking permission only to be told no by someone at a desk that has no clue about it. If a situation arises where enforcement comes to investigate your detecting just calmly and politely explain that no such laws or ordinances apply to what you are doing. Show them a few finds, tell a story about something "cool" or "interesting" you have found detecting and have a couple of laughs after offering to "split the gold stash with them". Unless the enforcement officials are just stiffs most of the time they will leave you alone. They most definitely aren't looking for anymore paperwork than they have to do honestly! lol TRUST ME!

Personally, there have been times where I knew that there were no laws or ordinances on detecting but I put in a call to a city hall or like I said before Corps of Engineer office just to let them know who I was and what I was doing just in case they got a call about it and I have encountered zero pushback. I was not calling to ask permission, only to let them know who I was and what I was doing. (Not using any law enforcement pull either, I do not do that nor would I)

My advice from being on the law enforcement side and the detectorist side is to just do your homework and research on the local ordinances and regulations, be polite and be open in your explanation about what you are doing if anyone questions it, and simply leave if asked to and prove your side at a city council or board of supervisor meeting if it escalates to that point. If there are rules and regulations against it then simply do not push the boundaries on it. Don't sneak in or be suspicious because that will end up with a citation for something being issued or possibly arrest or confiscation. Just be open and calm.

(Yes I am aware that being in law enforcement may come with a few perks as far as anyone badgering you about detecting and I live in a pretty laid back part of the country but as an officer I am telling you if you are polite and open about what you are doing and your intentions then it goes along way towards not being bothered! Officers, Deputies, Rangers, etc. are people just like you and I and politeness goes along way with them.)

This original story just doesn't add up to me as a law enforcement officer. Any enforcement agency is going to have documentation on what officers were patrolling on certain dates and times. If this individual was not able to track down this officer then either they didn't try hard enough, they were duped by someone, or it is simply as it seems, a story. Even if a "rogue" enforcement official effectively stole/confiscated the gear then they would still be able to be tracked down and tied to a department.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... What I'd give to be a fly on the wall as Tom had a conversation with some of these Barney Fife's.

Haha, well let me clarify that I do NOT dispute that there are nosy-parkers in this world who might gripe. Because, let's be honest: Our hobby has connotations. That you might be about to leave a hole, or "take something", blah blah. So I'm not disputing that they can't find ancillary language they *think* applies (Eg.: alter and deface, harvest & remove, blah blah).

And yeah, sure, I'll debate them on that and point out that I left-no-trace, and thus haven't alterED or defacED anything. And might they continue to dispute those semantics ? OF COURSE ! So I'm not trying to say to "be defiant" and "argue impolitely".

So as much as this is a "bee in my bonnet", yet I've resolved myself to thinking of this a little like nose-picking : Not illegal, nor do we "ask permission", but ... sheesshh, we still opt for discreet times, so as not to offend the squeamish, right ? So too is it with md'ing in nice-manicure turf : RATHER than totally relying on the "printed out rules", just go when less potential busy-bodies are present. There are some turfed parks in CA (that face open govt. office windows), that we only do @ odd-ball off hours (nights even). So peaceful. So serene.

You are simply NOT going to get every last person on earth to "sign off on you". It is not our job to "please everyone". JMHO.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... They most definitely aren't looking for anymore paperwork than they have to do honestly! lol TRUST ME!
....

Good post Jelly. Thank you for your service ! I have nothing but respect for LEO's and the hard work involved. You see the seediest saddest things in life. Very stressful.

And YES : LEOs have bigger fish to fry, than some geek with a metal detector. In this day & age, md'ing is the LAST thing on their mind.

I think that the only reason we md'rs tend to THINK they "care" is because of the shark-attack psychology : If one person in the entire USA in a year gets chomped by a shark, guess what makes the next day's headlines ? And guess what everyone will fear the next time they go swimming ? Even though, truth-be-told, thousands of swimmers swim every day, with no issues.

So too is it with md'ing : It only takes ONE FLUKE STORY (of someone roughed up by an overzealous LEO), and presto : Everyone thinks that "we are hated" and "we must grovel". When the truth be told : 99.999% of passerbys don't give 2 sh#ts about you or I.

Oh sure, don't do highly manicured turf at high noon waltzing over beach blankets. Sure. I'm not saying to throw common sense to the wind, and run around "demanding your rights".

 

[metaladdict]

A citation for "Possession of a Metal Detector" ???? That alone sounds bogus. And if it's real, how is it that the detector is now his?????

That's right,National Park rangers can confiscate your detecting stuff.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

That's right,National Park rangers can confiscate your detecting stuff.

Well, c'mon metal-addict : What *can* happen, and what likely *does* happen, are two different things. There is always some "ominous sky is falling imminent maximum fine & penalty" that is "on the books". Yet the *reality* is far different.

If anyone can point to instances of "confiscated metal detectors", I'm betting that it's probably someone being defiant that can't take a warning. Or someone night sneaking obvious off-limits monuments, etc.... On the rare (and I mean rare) occasion that someone can EVER point to someone in an innocuous benign spot where this supposedly occurs : That is flukes. That is not norm.

For example: I'm sure that if we scoured the newspaper headlines long enough across the country, we can probably find someone who got his ticketed, jailed, and car confiscated for nothing but a tail-light out. Sure. Flukes happen. For example : I have a clipping of a guy who got a ticket for eating a hamburger while driving (the cop called it "distracted driving"). But notice we recognize these for exactly what they are : Flukes.

So when these rare sky-is-falling posts happen, the WORST thing we can do is to think this means that such instances are imminent. Oh sure, use common sense, but no : The sky is not falling. The worst thing we can do is think this means we need to waltz in asking "can I ?" questions. Lest it merely become a self-fulfilling vicious loop. If someone is skittish (that they might be within an off-limits area), they can study rules and map-boundaries for themselves.

 

[Cfmct]

Well, c'mon metal-addict : What *can* happen, and what likely *does* happen, are two different things. There is always some "ominous sky is falling imminent maximum fine & penalty" that is "on the books". Yet the *reality* is far different.

If anyone can point to instances of "confiscated metal detectors", I'm betting that it's probably someone being defiant that can't take a warning. Or someone night sneaking obvious off-limits monuments, etc.... On the rare (and I mean rare) occasion that someone can EVER point to someone in an innocuous benign spot where this supposedly occurs : That is flukes. That is not norm.

For example: I'm sure that if we scoured the newspaper headlines long enough across the country, we can probably find someone who got his ticketed, jailed, and car confiscated for nothing but a tail-light out. Sure. Flukes happen. For example : I have a clipping of a guy who got a ticket for eating a hamburger while driving (the cop called it "distracted driving"). But notice we recognize these for exactly what they are : Flukes.

So when these rare sky-is-falling posts happen, the WORST thing we can do is to think this means that such instances are imminent. Oh sure, use common sense, but no : The sky is not falling. The worst thing we can do is think this means we need to waltz in asking "can I ?" questions. Lest it merely become a self-fulfilling vicious loop. If someone is skittish (that they might be within an off-limits area), they can study rules and map-boundaries for themselves.

Tom.... you have a hard excepting the facts that these things happen... You need to stop trying to sell that its ok to hunt and not worrying about being caught or them losing there gear...

Enjoy: https://metaldetectingforum.com/index.php?threads/detector-was-confiscated.14732/

Did you not recently have a friend who was hunting where he wasn't supposed to and was fined $250? Did you tell him it was ok to hunt that spot?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom.... you have a hard excepting the facts that these things happen...

Craig, look at your link again : This is a case where the guy could have known. He was at a location where, with a bit of googling , he would have KNOWN this is not "innocuous and benign". Thus outside of the current discussion. Now go look at what I Posted, and you will see that I'm referring to places that are : "innocuous and benign".

So we're talking 2 different things.

And when/if you can FINALLY point to a fluke (someone got roughed up at an innocuous benign place), SURE ! I've been the first to acknowledge that flukes happen. Sure. Shark attacks, lightening strikes, tickets for eating a hamburger, etc... SURE ! All I'm trying to say is : If someone is skittish, they should look things up for themselves. And that thinking they're going to solve any such fears by going and asking "can I ?", will often time only make things worse (end up with the "no one cared TILL you asked" psychology kicking in)

Ok ?

 

[Cfmct]

Craig, look at your link again : This is a case where the guy could have known. He was at a location where, with a bit of googling , he would have KNOWN this is not "innocuous and benign". Thus outside of the current discussion. Now go look at what I Posted, and you will see that I'm referring to places that are : "innocuous and benign".

So we're talking 2 different things.

And when/if you can FINALLY point to a fluke (someone got roughed up at an innocuous benign place), SURE ! I've been the first to acknowledge that flukes happen. Sure. Shark attacks, lightening strikes, tickets for eating a hamburger, etc... SURE ! All I'm trying to say is : If someone is skittish, they should look things up for themselves. And that thinking they're going to solve any such fears by going and asking "can I ?", will often time only make things worse (end up with the "no one cared TILL you asked" psychology kicking in)

Ok ?

Its not ok... you made a blanket statement that people don't have their detectors confiscated..

detector was confiscated

With the use of my metal detector i was able to locate the former Camp Wellfleet within National Park Property. I went on to interview some of the old timers who were stationed there. It was from these interviews that i learned of the RCAT drones that were flown up and down the beach for target...

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